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BlueCheese

(2,522 posts)
30. My argument is not that lower numbers are better.
Sat Jan 2, 2016, 07:36 PM
Jan 2016

Obviously $7.25 (where it is now) is too low to really live on; further, a lot of research has shown that in that range, raising the minimum wage doesn't have negative economic consequences. Obviously $100 is too high. I think everyone would agree on that too. In the middle is a range of workable numbers, with your preference dependent on how you weigh various factors.

I'm only pointing out that if you were doing a study to set the minimum wage from scratch, and you looked everywhere on Earth to see what every other country was doing, and you decided to essentially make the US minimum wage the highest of all of those, you'd end up with $12 (in terms of purchasing power). That far from being some sort of corporate-friendly miserly level, it's as far as evidence has suggested we can go without undue risk.

15. Warren Stupidity Jan 2016 #1
Only $15? Why not $20? BlueCheese Jan 2016 #2
The people at the bottom of the heap are speaking quite clearly: 15. Warren Stupidity Jan 2016 #5
Are you sure they wouldn't want $20? BlueCheese Jan 2016 #6
Actually $21 would be fairer. That's what it would be if adjusted for inflation. rhett o rick Jan 2016 #12
That link says the highest it's ever been adjusted for inflation is $10.55. BlueCheese Jan 2016 #13
Seems you can't discuss this rationally and I am not surprised because you've taken rhett o rick Jan 2016 #46
Raising the minimum wage from $7.25 to $12.00 is not holding it down. BlueCheese Jan 2016 #50
And my point is that $12 is an insult. It's not a living wage. Why not $15? rhett o rick Jan 2016 #55
Why hasn't France, or Germany, or any other country gone that far? BlueCheese Jan 2016 #59
Your arguements don't have anything to do with the morality of providing a living wage. rhett o rick Jan 2016 #66
As Krugman likes to say, economics is not a morality play. BlueCheese Jan 2016 #72
Show me a study that says that raising the min wage causes unemployment and inflation. rhett o rick Jan 2016 #82
Those are about raising the minimum wage from its current, low, value. BlueCheese Jan 2016 #84
Krugman also likes to blather on about the liquidity trap MFrohike Jan 2016 #228
Why? Neoliberal infections within their economies. Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #152
Every country in the world has a neoliberal infection? BlueCheese Jan 2016 #172
because ... Roy Ellefson Jan 2016 #221
My guess would be vastly superior healthcare Bradical79 Jan 2016 #235
You disagree with Senator Warren, then. If twelve bucks is an "insult," you're gonna HATE ten MADem Jan 2016 #104
You sure read that a lot different than I do. RichVRichV Jan 2016 #128
Not sure what your point is there--the other poster was calling two bucks more than that MADem Jan 2016 #139
I support a $15 min wage. I guess you support a mere $10.10. Sad when Democrats care more rhett o rick Jan 2016 #129
Do you at least agree that it is possible to set the minimum wage too high? BlueCheese Jan 2016 #131
I have never seen any articles claiming that. Maybe you can link me to one. nm rhett o rick Jan 2016 #205
I did link to one, above, about Puerto Rico. BlueCheese Jan 2016 #206
Ha ha ha--are you calling me Elizabeth Warren? MADem Jan 2016 #137
No way. She is a progressive. She doesn't support the wealthy 1% to the rhett o rick Jan 2016 #211
I don't "support the wealthy 1% to the detriment of the working poor" either. MADem Jan 2016 #212
And keep on using that emoticon. rhett o rick Jan 2016 #213
When you make obviously false statements about me, I have two options, really. MADem Jan 2016 #214
I never claimed you were a 1%'er. Now who is misrepresenting. rhett o rick Jan 2016 #220
You danced close enough to that fire to create a firestorm of misapprehension. MADem Jan 2016 #225
What inflation number? PowerToThePeople Jan 2016 #67
Isn't that something, how they do that. Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #174
+1! tecelote Jan 2016 #34
The peak is actually $10.55 adjusted for inflation. BlueCheese Jan 2016 #36
My gut tells me different. I know it's not scientific but I lived through it. tecelote Jan 2016 #39
That's a fair opinion. BlueCheese Jan 2016 #40
It depends on where you live TexasBushwhacker Jan 2016 #178
Should every earner be earning a wage adjusted for if they had children? Zynx Jan 2016 #151
I doubt we'll see any increase. MeNMyVolt Jan 2016 #3
I'm completely confident that Clinton, bvf Jan 2016 #4
+1 CharlotteVale Jan 2016 #9
It's fine where it is. StrongBad Jan 2016 #7
That's a pretty bad reply. MeNMyVolt Jan 2016 #15
No, you don't get a secure life just by showing up. StrongBad Jan 2016 #41
Look, I can get this on Yahoo board. Good luck to you and yours. MeNMyVolt Jan 2016 #44
I appreciate your politeness. Best to you as well. StrongBad Jan 2016 #48
"giving excessive resources to those that don't produce...is a recipe for societal collapse" DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2016 #105
They will? Why, had no idea! bvf Jan 2016 #16
Hillary actually. But don't agree with her 100% on things. StrongBad Jan 2016 #42
Your post appears to argue bvf Jan 2016 #74
Unions are fine as they are a form of voluntary organization. StrongBad Jan 2016 #106
So you're against any minimum wage, then. bvf Jan 2016 #107
It's not the 19th century anymore. StrongBad Jan 2016 #108
That's entirely irrelevant. bvf Jan 2016 #124
Yeah, and then taxpayers are on the hook providing "additional services" to people who work 40+ hrs Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #18
That's not cool either. StrongBad Jan 2016 #43
Right, but those burgers don't cook themselves. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #53
Those burgers will start cooking themselves soon enough. StrongBad Jan 2016 #58
"I only know how to pay people to create new alloys!" Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #63
Yeah but probably better solved by welfare than min wage StrongBad Jan 2016 #69
You would seem to be contradicting yourself, there. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #71
Honestly, just to prevent riots from the hordes. StrongBad Jan 2016 #76
And this is all preferable to simply telling McDonalds, etc. to pay their workers a living wage? Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #78
Capital flight is a thing. Government flight isn't. StrongBad Jan 2016 #81
Ah, Capital Flight.. Like, McDonalds is going to take all their burger-selling operations to Mexico Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #136
You do know this is classic rightwing liberloon Warren Stupidity Jan 2016 #145
What bullshit... Punkingal Jan 2016 #20
Haters gonna hate, atlases gonna shrug. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #21
I really don't think it's necessary anymore. StrongBad Jan 2016 #45
Who decides who provides value? Punkingal Jan 2016 #49
The worker provides value to the employer. StrongBad Jan 2016 #57
That's great.... Punkingal Jan 2016 #60
Yes because there's only one employer in the entire economy. StrongBad Jan 2016 #61
I couldn't dislike your ideas more than I do now after reading this. Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #175
Assuming you're not being snarky... BlueCheese Jan 2016 #24
I disagree. Maybe that's true in a world of Republicons or Libertarians, but rhett o rick Jan 2016 #52
That's a nice thought but not reality. StrongBad Jan 2016 #96
Not only is this view heartless it's also wrong. RichVRichV Jan 2016 #65
I disagree. StrongBad Jan 2016 #98
You have got to be trolling. RichVRichV Jan 2016 #111
Here's a start to having your mind blown StrongBad Jan 2016 #114
It will take a lot more than that to blow my mind. RichVRichV Jan 2016 #121
Wow. Just fucking wow. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #112
Great use of a cliche phrase. StrongBad Jan 2016 #115
Great use of right wing talking points about poor people. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #116
Reality is harsh. Resources are finite. The future is dark. Get used to it. StrongBad Jan 2016 #117
So let them starve, amirite? beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #119
Can't compete? Not my fault. StrongBad Jan 2016 #120
Please, stop with the picures. MeNMyVolt Jan 2016 #126
I gave up, it's not worth disussing anything with someone who advocates survival of the fittest. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #138
Are you a comedian in real life? hobbit709 Jan 2016 #89
Great argument and rebuttal. 10/10. StrongBad Jan 2016 #97
The system runs on money-if the damn system makes it impossible to be of monetary worth to those Stargazer99 Jan 2016 #113
Yikes. Warren Stupidity Jan 2016 #144
huh? Roy Ellefson Jan 2016 #222
Another tone deaf OP from Camp Weathervane. 99Forever Jan 2016 #8
$500 trillion BKH70041 Jan 2016 #10
It's misleading to compare it to many European nations Vattel Jan 2016 #11
Yes so if they make 8 dollars an hour, they take home about 4.50 an hour yeoman6987 Jan 2016 #77
and public transportation is often better, making car ownership less crucial Vattel Jan 2016 #83
Depending on where you lived yeoman6987 Jan 2016 #86
Isn't the logical thing, then, to be pushing for greater benefits and not higher mandated wages? Zynx Jan 2016 #153
If people want to bleat on and piss/moan over "if 15 why not 20" then fine, make it 20. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #14
The more I think about it, the more I think even $20 isn't enough. BlueCheese Jan 2016 #17
Sure. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #19
Obviously it's not fine where it is. Where did I say that? BlueCheese Jan 2016 #23
I would argue that 15 is more livable, equitable, and fair than 12. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #25
My argument is not that lower numbers are better. BlueCheese Jan 2016 #30
I don't think 15 is inherently more "risky" than 12, personally. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #51
Sure, I will definitely concede that. BlueCheese Jan 2016 #54
Peace. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #56
I say $50 BKH70041 Jan 2016 #22
The peasants are greedy, huh? Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #26
Amazing, isn't it? beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #70
I thought WE were the libertarians!!!! Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #75
Get your memes straight, Bernie-bro, it's third way progressives! beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #80
Apparently if they have to pay workers too much, McDonalds will pack up and sell their burgers to us Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #140
And then we'll have to give the hordes of unemployed moochers welfare or they'll riot. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #141
This thread brought out the Libertarians neverforget Jan 2016 #102
I will see your twenty and raise you five more. Vattel Jan 2016 #183
I would agree with that. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #207
I keep hearing this stuff about how Sanders supporters are all soooper-seekrit libertarians Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #27
Have seen a couple of the replies in this thread? n/t MeNMyVolt Jan 2016 #33
That sentence doesn't make any sense. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #47
I certainly don't believe that. BlueCheese Jan 2016 #35
I'm more interested in a minimum living wage, so something like this... WhaTHellsgoingonhere Jan 2016 #28
Why do we even need a federal minimum wage? TeddyR Jan 2016 #29
Well, some states aren't interested in protecting their workers. BlueCheese Jan 2016 #32
Well TeddyR Jan 2016 #93
The current approach is for the federal government to set a floor... BlueCheese Jan 2016 #94
Right TeddyR Jan 2016 #103
because mississippi and the rest of the fuckwad bullshit rightwing hellholes would have no min. Warren Stupidity Jan 2016 #148
The Australian minimum wage is over $12 USD an hour. jfern Jan 2016 #31
Adjusted for purchasing power, because Australia has a higher cost of living, it's around $11.14. Zynx Jan 2016 #160
$17.29 AUD is definitely more than $12 USD jfern Jan 2016 #216
It sure is . TheFarS1de Jan 2016 #230
The exchange rate is *NOT* equivalent to cost of living. Zynx Jan 2016 #233
San Francisco is probably more expensive than anywhere in Australia jfern Jan 2016 #236
Who says the federal government has Keefer Jan 2016 #37
The Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938. Look it up. MeNMyVolt Jan 2016 #38
Nothing in the Keefer Jan 2016 #90
I think we've all seen the graph of stagnant wage compared to relative corporate growth... MrMickeysMom Jan 2016 #62
"a credentialed and licensed respiratory care practitioner" Douglas Carpenter Jan 2016 #99
I can't believe it's taken this long for THAT connection! MrMickeysMom Jan 2016 #118
Everyone now making over minimum wage will want an increase too MichMan Jan 2016 #100
My sister owns a very small business in NC TeddyR Jan 2016 #109
$20 an hour for working at Taco Bell? TeddyR Jan 2016 #190
Multiple posters here advocating for that very thing n/t MichMan Jan 2016 #195
I'm not telling you that is what it could be... MrMickeysMom Jan 2016 #224
Enough so anyone working full time corkhead Jan 2016 #64
GDP divided by population. PowerToThePeople Jan 2016 #68
Why does that inherently make sense? Zynx Jan 2016 #154
Because it is the just way PowerToThePeople Jan 2016 #208
I am fine with 12 in most places. Kalidurga Jan 2016 #73
This thread will self-destruct in a few minutes. BlueCheese Jan 2016 #79
Decided not to self-delete. BlueCheese Jan 2016 #87
Good post, but it's impossible to get Hillary bashers to understand this. DanTex Jan 2016 #85
$12/hr here in Austin won't even pay the rent. hobbit709 Jan 2016 #88
ideally, it should be staggered according to cost of living in different Douglas Carpenter Jan 2016 #91
This is correct. NT Adrahil Jan 2016 #123
Without looking at one single reply....... quickesst Jan 2016 #92
Whatever it takes to be a living wage in its own region. nt LWolf Jan 2016 #95
Wouldn't jobs follow the lowest wage regions then? MichMan Jan 2016 #101
not necessairly. Wages are already higher in NYC or San Francisco Douglas Carpenter Jan 2016 #134
All wages would rise proportionally MichMan Jan 2016 #149
Fifteen to start. nt Laffy Kat Jan 2016 #110
I think we should go for $15, since by the time we actually get the chance to do this Starry Messenger Jan 2016 #122
Much higher than it is now... Sequinn Jan 2016 #125
10 taught_me_patience Jan 2016 #127
$22 an hour and a guaranteed wage. Luminous Animal Jan 2016 #130
What do you mean by a guaranteed wage? BlueCheese Jan 2016 #132
Dismantle the entire welfare system and provide a base wage for all Luminous Animal Jan 2016 #133
In 1972 this was actually supported by both President Nixon and by Senator Douglas Carpenter Jan 2016 #135
$22 an hour? Every single job has to be paid essentially at least $45,000 a year? Zynx Jan 2016 #156
That would be for doing nothing MichMan Jan 2016 #168
Exactly. The guaranteed minimum income has always been proposed as a barebones safety net. Zynx Jan 2016 #176
If you're willing to settle for $12, you should start the negotiation at $15 or higher. Scuba Jan 2016 #142
What sort of "Democrat" argues against a living wage? 99Forever Jan 2016 #143
Perhaps we should do something like Australia TexasBushwhacker Jan 2016 #146
The productivity increases vary wildly by industry MichMan Jan 2016 #157
So all increases to productivity should go to sit-on-their-ass-and-do-nothing upper management? 99Forever Jan 2016 #159
No, but the basic point is that you can't provide a uniform adjustment based on productivity. Zynx Jan 2016 #161
Same gawddamn bullshit excuses that have been use to keep their... 99Forever Jan 2016 #165
I'm not. I do work in public policy analysis and I'm concerned about overly simplistic policies. Zynx Jan 2016 #181
If they can't can't pay their workers a decent livable wage... 99Forever Jan 2016 #182
That could, over time, be an entire industry that we would no longer have. Zynx Jan 2016 #184
You a big fan of buggy whips? 99Forever Jan 2016 #188
Wait...what? If an industry goes under because its products aren't desired anymore, that's one thing Zynx Jan 2016 #189
Funny thing about those "scale wages to" scams... 99Forever Jan 2016 #193
I would suppose that attempting to call for civility is a Republican line, too? Zynx Jan 2016 #196
Do I sound angry? 99Forever Jan 2016 #198
Personally insulting people who want the same end goal as you but disagree slightly on means... Zynx Jan 2016 #199
$15 hr. 99Forever Jan 2016 #200
You had been arguing for something far higher than that. Zynx Jan 2016 #201
That simply isn't true. 99Forever Jan 2016 #202
You jumped in to defend linking it to inflation plus productivity. Zynx Jan 2016 #209
This also brings up another obsurdity. 99Forever Jan 2016 #204
Because they are far less disruptive than a single very high minimum wage. Zynx Jan 2016 #210
More like they are much easier to promise while campaigning... 99Forever Jan 2016 #218
You've got me. I'm part of a vast conspiracy to oppress the working and middle class. Zynx Jan 2016 #226
False promises are false. 99Forever Jan 2016 #232
Very simplistic thinking MichMan Jan 2016 #163
"Simplistic" my ass. 99Forever Jan 2016 #166
Serious problem: Worker productivity hasn't increased evenly across industries. Zynx Jan 2016 #158
I understand that TexasBushwhacker Jan 2016 #170
Are you sure that's the minimum wage in that chart? BlueCheese Jan 2016 #179
You are definitely right. That's not minimum wage. Zynx Jan 2016 #186
It's average hourly compensation TexasBushwhacker Jan 2016 #187
Thanks-- interesting read. BlueCheese Jan 2016 #191
It should be what it has always been - a floor wage MineralMan Jan 2016 #147
How about that? Something sensible. Zynx Jan 2016 #162
I keep trying to be sensible. MineralMan Jan 2016 #164
Alan Krueger's thoughts are worth looking at. DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2016 #150
12 is enough. tazkcmo Jan 2016 #155
$15 is, at least, a start. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2016 #167
What ever it is it must be adjusted for inflation - ANNUALLY Ferd Berfel Jan 2016 #169
This is essentially conservative propaganda and I wish I weren't seeing it on DU. nt Todays_Illusion Jan 2016 #171
Respectfully, raising the minimum wage to the highest in the world is not conservative propaganda. BlueCheese Jan 2016 #173
Apparently supporting a 60%+ increase in the minimum wage makes one a fascist. Zynx Jan 2016 #177
Sixty percent? jmowreader Jan 2016 #219
Increasing it to the vicinity of $12 is deemed unacceptable. That's a 65.5% increase. Zynx Jan 2016 #229
Deemed unacceptable by who? jmowreader Jan 2016 #231
The Sanders supporters. Zynx Jan 2016 #234
Yes it is. 99Forever Jan 2016 #180
I make $18.75 Reter Jan 2016 #185
Elizabeth Warren on minimum wage EndElectoral Jan 2016 #192
From your link... BlueCheese Jan 2016 #194
Yes, and that didn't happen. She was asking for a nominal increase and couldn't get that. EndElectoral Jan 2016 #197
That number should be... deathrind Jan 2016 #203
$12 at minimum, and indexed to the cost of living in each area jmowreader Jan 2016 #215
Yeah, this stuff where we talk about solving this through a single national number is nonsense. Zynx Jan 2016 #217
except in Wisconsin Roy Ellefson Jan 2016 #223
Depends where. Madison, no. Places like Milladore in Wood County? Absolutely. Zynx Jan 2016 #227
Regional Hekate Jan 2016 #237
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