Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

what a load of hooey.....

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
pdx_prog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:29 PM
Original message
what a load of hooey.....
From one of my caring, tolerant, and lovely repug friends....




Interesting Facts about Iraq War vs. Other Wars

There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of January..... In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the monthof January. That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq.


When some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war, state the following ...FDR... led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.


Truman... finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,334 per year.


John F. Kennedy... started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us.


Johnson... turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.


Clinton... went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia never attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.


In the two years since terrorists attacked us President Bush has liberated two countries,crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.

The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51 day operation.

We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.


It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick.


It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes inFlorida!!!!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. And we shouldn't have been in Vietnam.
Edited on Thu Jul-15-04 01:34 PM by DarkPhenyx
For troops born in Detroit Iraq is a vacation. They'll admit it.

The Clinton/OBL part is de-bunked crap as far as I know.

Japan and Germany had signed an alliance pact. al'Queda and Iraq had not.

Most of the rest of that load is just hyperbole and rhetoric to spin up thier side. Kinda sad and pathetic really.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NWHarkness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Don't starte that crap again
Detroiters vote 90% Democratic. Why do they have to get insulted on a Democratic site?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. Becasue I grew up in Toledo...
...where our city motto is "At Least We Aren't Detroit".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
adriennel Donating Member (776 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. yeah, Toledo's a great city
<sarcasm>
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. like I said
at least it isn't Detroit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NWHarkness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. Well, that's true
I can't name even one great musician from Toledo.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Nor has Detroit...
...ever been Restraunt Capitol of the US. Toledo has.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Kennedy - Viet Nam
Bobby Kennedy was one of the strongest critics of Viet Nam. He said that if his brother had lived, he would not have escallated that war.

Viet Nam came to the attention of the US when VP Nixon took a fact finding trip there and reported back to Eisenhower that we should send advisors to help the S. Viet Nam govt.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. "For troops born in Detroit Iraq is a vacation. They'll admit it"
Not the ones I know.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Ever seen the movie "Good Morning Vietnam"?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. Okay, so the US is in a bigger mess than Iraq...
Hmm, the repuke only tarnishes his own case. Yes, Iraq is small fiddles by comparison, so why hasn't * helped out the US?

But he has:

Allowing outsourcing
Cutting taxes big-time
Spending big-time
Getting into frivolous wars
Making more little things into big crimes

We took Iraq. But I don't think we're keeping it in good shape...

* is still a twit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Reverend_Smitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. ummm....
"When some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war, state the following ...FDR... led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year. "

Germany declared war on us!!! That dude ought to bone up on his history
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NWHarkness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Germany was also attacking US shipping
Even before Pearl Harbor.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maine-i-acs Donating Member (989 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hooey is right
39 Iraq "Killings" (US soldiers) out of 150,000 = 1 per 3,846
35 Detroit murders out of 911,000 population (2003 est.) = 1 per 1 per 26,028

This means that Detroit is about 7 times safer than Iraq. Ask the soldiers where they'd rather be. I am sick of the murder count of cities being used to downplay the deaths of US soldiers.

Clinton was president when 2 AQ plots were defeated (Bojinka and Millenium). How many AQ plots did chimpy upset?

And if we're safer what is this crap about 7 suitcase nukes???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Of course, they are additional and needless deaths.
Soldiers are expendable to republicans. It shows in their pathetic and deceitful attempts to write them off as meaningless statistics.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shoelace414 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. and the winner is?
From one of my caring, tolerant, and lovely repug friends....




Interesting Facts about Iraq War vs. Other Wars

There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of January..... In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the monthof January. That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq.

how many police officers were killed in Detroit in January?

When some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war, state the following ...FDR... led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.

germany declared war on us

Truman... finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,334 per year.

and what did we get out of that war?

John F. Kennedy... started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us.

what did we get out of that war?

Johnson... turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.

what did we get out of that war

Clinton... went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia never attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

how many US Soliders died in Bosnia? zero.
Clinton was never offered Osama.
and Bush did nothing in the first nine months of his presidency

In the two years since terrorists attacked us President Bush has liberated two countries,crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.

Then why are afganistan elecitons being postponed? how did al-qaida "influence" the spanish elections? why are more people being killed by terrorists this year that in the last dozen or so? NK kicked out the Nuke inspectors in BUSHES presidency, Libya is plotting assaination of middle eastern leaders.

The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51 day operation.

the war is over?

We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.

not anymore. and still none found

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick.

the war is over?

It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes inFlorida!!!!

the war is over?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maine-i-acs Donating Member (989 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
6. Comparing the time it took...
It took less time to take Baghdad than it has taken to find out who IN THE WHITE HOUSE outed Valerie Plame.

Bush's 2001 vacation at the ranch was also longer...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
9. FDR "lead us" into WWII
I can hardly express with words how f*cking stupid that is. I don't many freepers would even go along with that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fear Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. Really alot......really alot - it's a sad story :(, but they keep each
hyped with lies.......and it works, cause no research of the facts presented to them is being validated and taken as truth.

BUT honestly, democrats should beware of that danger as well!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
12. Ok, well lets add to the education
Total deaths of 9/11= 3023

Average amount of government compensation to families = $300,000 to 1 mill. Red Cross donations and other funds, available as needed. College aid provided to children for future needs.
Compensation provided to families of soldiers or civilians killed in Pearl Harbor = 0
Compensation other than military buriel costs offered to deceased US soldiers in Iraq?=0

As of April 2002, U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan= over 1000 (700 since last August)
Estimates of Afghanistan civilians killed range from 10,000 to as high as 18,000.
Taliban continue to inhabit the country, conflicts are increasing as elections near, women still wear burka's.
Osama Bin Laden = whereabouts unknown

Iraqi Freedom / FUN DEATH FACTS

Total U.S causalties (6/04)= 828
American soldiers killed before Bush's "Mission Accomplished" Speech:
239
Total soldiers maimed or permanently injured = 6000+


Total Civilian Deaths in Iraq War: 10,800 and counting
Current estimates now have a high of 37,000 based on Iraqi hospital records of treatment or funeral home services

Children: ~2442+
Based on population demographics from the CIA World Factbook:
*********************
Age structure, Iraq:

0-14 years: 40.7% (male 5,103,669; female 4,946,443)
15-64 years: 56.3% (male 7,033,268; female 6,855,644)
65 years and over: 3% (male 348,790; female 395,499) (2003 est.)

///// Think about it. There are over 96% of the male population within a possible average age of between 10-25 years within the next 10years. Think they'll be a little testy? Oh yeah, baby./////
*********************
Number of words in the Bush Jan. 2003 State of the Union Address: 5,492

Deaths per word: 1.97

Deaths per the "16 words": 675

Deaths per point for the 9 point jump in George Bush's poll numbers resulting from the war: 1200

Profits on each death for the $600 million no bid Haliburton reconstruction contract: $55,000
#
#####################################################################
Number of hours George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Pearle and Karl Rove served in combat
(combined): 0
######################################################################

In order to recreate the carnage of the Iraq War walk through a 50,000 seat stadium shooting every 3rd to 5th person in the head. However, if a .45 Colt is used, reload approximately 1543 times. Cost of replacing your clothing if you are George Bush, approximately $15,000. for the suit of blue.

Funerals for U.S. servicemen or women attended by George Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, or Cheney = 0

Taxpayer funds unacknowledged and misappropriated by George Bush
= $700 million+
Total costs of both wars = well over $100 billion dollars, easily more than the fortune of Bill Gates. Wolfowicz now asking Congress for more. $60 million dollars alone given to oil companies for security.

National debt = 1/2 a trillion dollars

:nuke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Parche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
14. True History
Japan attacked us, Germany declared war on us

Iraq never attacked us, or declared war on us

Truman went into Korea with the UN

JFK did not "Start" the Vietnam war, it was during Eisenhower he
sent advisors into Vietnam.
Japan was in Vietnam in the 30's and 40's then the French fought for it.

The only true statement, LBJ did turn Vietnam into a quagmire,
He is the only democrat that I cant stand, besides Zell Miller and
Lieberman

Clinton never invaded Bosnia, and never went to "war" there
He went with the UN, and as far as it is known, no US soldier died as a result, and thousands of lives were saved

Clinton went after Osama and others vigorously, by bombing and other methods, but as you remember the Republicans had spent over $100 million of our tax dollars trying to uncover his sex life, which
was irrelevent to the case at hand, whitewater. Clinton was exonerated on all charges.

Its been 3years since Sept 11th, it has not been fully investigated,
he illegally invaded Iraq, without Iraq attacking us, he has gone
on vacation the most times of any President in history, Sept 11th did happen on his watch, he is responsible, he sure has crippled those terra ists, the number of attacks has increased, North Korea
still has a nuclear weapon (which is a real WMD), He did nothing in
Libya that any other President has done,

Keep harping on Ted Kennedy's Chappaquidick, and we will pull up
many scandals of Bush, his drug use, drunk driving, Harkin energy
insider trading, Dickhead Cheney energy files, National Guard awol,
Sept 11th inaction.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. Bush Benefits
Bush has spent approximately 40% of his time in office on vacation.

Reason provided: He doesn't like Washington.

So we've had a guy in office who started two fires and left the fires in the hands of the least experienced firemen 40% of the time because he couldn't take the heat.

This is safer? Might as well ride in a car with him telling you he can drive from the backseat.

***********

JFK sent troops to Vietnam to lend credibility to his administration before the Russians. Cold war reasoning. It has been suggested in historical records he never intended to leave troops there. He died, we'll never know.

Johnson was a drunk and a sick bastard through and through. What he lacked in common sense he made up for in a huge ego. What he wanted, he took. What he took were over 58,000 lives. Is that what we have to look forward to with George Bush? Prove it otherwise. Where is the exit strategy for Iraq and Afghanistan? Where is the press calling for the exit strategy? Where are the politicians calling for the exit strategy? They,like Bush, are taking 6 weeks off. Any soldiers getting six weeks off?

So long as we the public stay focused on the big gay threat, Bush
and Co. skate away from this one and they know it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dyedinthewoolliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
17. Geeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzeeeeeeeee
I feel slimy just reading it! :)
Each and every talking point can be rebutted quite easily. the problem is, most folks on the right are just like us. They are convinced their side is the correct one...........of course we all KNOW the truth!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
18. hit 'em back with some stats
give 'em the chances of being killed by a terrorist attack in the US.

As compared to ....

driving a car.

walking down the street.

taking a shower.

owning a gun.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobbyboucher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
20. Why post this tired old bullshit?
We've seen it before and quite frankly, don't need to see it anymore, it is innaccurate at best, pure fiction at worst.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lastliberalintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
21. This was my response
This email was sent to me several months ago as a LTTE, and it was a slightly different version then. I just responded in the heat of the moment, without caring who I angered.


You've got to be kidding me. This is the problem with people writing letters to the editor- they are far too willing to show their ignorance. And we wonder why the rest of the world holds us in such contempt- we don't even know our own history! Much less that of other peoples.

FDR- Germany never attacked us, but they were officially allied with a country that did (ie, Japan). As such, Germany was a legitimate military target for the US, since once we declared war on Japan, Germany declared war on us.

Truman- Truman did not start a war in Korea. The Korean War was a UN offensive in which the US was a participant, along with a number of other countries which were our allies. You can argue that Korea was a mistake all you want (the Domino Theory was crap, after all)- but you can't blame this on Harry S.

JFK- JFK did not start Vietnam- Eisenhower did. We were already engaged (although tepidly) in the Vietnam struggle when JFK took office. It's just that the "official" start of the war was 1962. Again, you can argue that we should not have been involved in yet another Domino Theory Red Scare Paranoia Offensive- but you can't blame that on JFK (or even Ike for that matter).

LBJ- Johnson did not turn Vietnam into a quagmire- but he can be blamed more than the others you've listed. Vietnam was a prime example of why the Military Industrial Complex should not be running our country- which was basically what LBJ allowed to happen. Yep, he should have stood up to the bastards and told them where to take a flying leap.

Clinton- Bosnia was a NATO led and sponsored mission, which was basically humanitarian in nature. We went into Bosnia AT THE VERY TIME that the death camps and genocidal purges were happening (not 15-20 years later like in Iraq). It was not a war which was started by the US, nor one in which we wanted to be involved. After all, liberals and lefties had begged the US to intervene on humanitarian grounds for almost a decade after the slaughters of Milosovic were discovered. But we were too busy guarding oil wells and freeing the oppressed people of Kuwait and their gold toilets. (By the way- Can women vote today in Kuwait? Glad we intervened to help "free" those people.)

Sudan did not offer OBL- on a silver platter or otherwise. Sudan never had control of the man- and since they've been involved in their own civil war for basically the last decade, they'd be hard pressed to turn over anyone. In fact, the coalition which controls most of Sudan is ruled by a pseudo-Islamist group who believe much the same as OBL. Not bloody likely that they'd turn the man over to the US. So you know- Sudan's civil war is yet another fight over oil, just one you don't hear about in the American media (fine oligopoly that it is).

Bush hasn't "liberated" anything but the oil fields from the nationalization they faced under Hussein's regime. The people of Iraq are no more free today than they were a year ago. But many are dead, homeless, sick, unemployed, and now must deal with a crushed infrastructure. God, they have sooooo much to thank us for!

The Taliban still controls 95% of Afghanistan- but you'd have to read or watch something other than Fox News to know that. The US barely controls parts of Kabul- barely. All indications are that the Taliban are re-grouping for major offensives this Spring- and we're already stretched too thin by Iraq. We don't have any available troops to send to fight them. Can you say DRAFT, boys and girls? Yeah, I knew you could.

Al Quaeda is so crippled that they carry out attacks around the world almost weekly or monthly. Glad that Bush has done so much to hurt that group. /sarcasm/

Libya had been in negotiations with the US, the UK and the UN for the past 4 or 5 years- didn't have a darn thing to do with Bush. Libya has been trying to "play nice" and hoping for the lifting of sanctions for several years now. Pan Am 103 settlement, anyone? Again- NOTHING to do with this administration. In fact, most of the credit unfortunately probably goes to the Poodle- not that I want to credit Blair for much either.

Inspectors in North Korea? Hmmm, I must have missed that one. There have been some observers who see only what the NK gov't allows them to see. But actual inspectors with the authority to sanction the gov't and confiscate illegal or banned weapons? Um, no.

Not quite sure who he means by the "terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people." If he is talking about Hussein, much of that slaughter (actually the vast majority) happened while we were allies- and the US turned a blind eye to his actions. In fact, he did much of that with our implied consent. We can't say now (15 years after the fact) that he's a very very bad man who was such a scourge on other nations. (Wish I knew how to attach that photo of a smiling Hussein and Rumsfeld shaking hands, c. 1984.)

"We lost 600 soldiers, an average of 30 a year." Um, remedial math is always nice to learn. Even if he is referring to 600 soldiers per year of the Bush administration, that would be 200 soldiers per year (600/3= 200). But what he fails to say is that the number we've already lost in Iraq in LESS THAN ONE YEAR OF FIGHTING is more than we lost in the first several years of fighting in Vietnam. And that doesn't even count the number we've lost in Afghanistan.

He at least did get it right that Bush hasn't ALLOWED another terrorist attack since 9/11. (Freudian slip maybe?) After all, there is pretty compelling and damaging information concerning the actions (or inactions) of this administration in the weeks leading up to and following 9/11 to indicate that they didn't do everything that they could to prevent that attack.

If this guy is any indication, our eduaction system is in shambles. But then, the repubs want it that way. After all, it is easier to govern an uneducated populace.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seemann For Congress Donating Member (107 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
22. How many?
How many millions of people live in Detroit? 35 of them were killed.
There are only 140,000 Americans in Iraq. 39 were killed.

Not quite the ratio the right wing wants to show, is it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
26. Doctors kill more people than guns.
So let's outlaw doctors.
That's what one read that I got the other day.
Same kind of bullshit.
I don't "answer" things like that, just return two from my extensive anti-bush*, anti-repug file.
And remember what trof-the-emailer sez:
ALWAYS TWOFERS AND ALWAYS "REPLY ALL"!
It's just a battle of attrition and I can hold out longer and piss them off more.
;-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Oct 31st 2024, 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC