Seriously, why do new homes NEED to be so BIG?

[HughBeaumont]

What the hell happened to building reasonably spacious normal houses? Who needs a 6000-foot square home for a three-person family? Is it that people have turned straight-up greedy and scoff at an older (and might I add, better built) home or are they just that financially stupid that the curb appeal above all else is way more important to them than the overall cost of keeping that wasteful non-necessity?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

1. Because People Want Them, And That's Their Business.

[bryant69]

4. That's a little simplistic I would think

I mean such homes are wasteful, and we, as a nation or a world, don't have an infinite supply of materials or energy. While I'm not sure there is a governmental solution here, certainly criticizing people who choose to be wasteful isn't a bad idea.

Bryant
check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[HughBeaumont]

8. All I see is "Ignored". What did they say?

[Hugabear]

10. Said that people want them, and that's their business

n/t

[HughBeaumont]

25. OK, so me having them on ignored is justified then.

Bitchin'. :)

The answer is it's going to be EVERYONE'S business because of their greedy and wasteful economy-destroying bullshit. What then?

[ileus]

138. 250k in raw materials = money pumped into the ecomomy

[Lorien]

140. = environmental destruction and waste

our resources aren't infinite. There's only enough for all if everyone consumes in moderation (note the uptick in oil and lumber prices as evidence of this; the Chinese and SUV drivers use more of something, so there's less of it)!

[HughBeaumont]

150. Eventual foreclosure = money drained from the economy.

Enormous cooling/heating/upkeep costs = more money to corporations to be bloated and energy depleting = the planet's destruction along with the forest-destruction for those raw materials, along with the forest destruction for the lot that home goes on.

[bryant69]

85. That's not what I said, incidentally, but I guess that accuracy is not your strong suit. n/t

[Vanje]

86. Clearly, Paint-it-black's post was refering to OMC's post,

not yours.

[bryant69]

88. Clearly. But the question was "What did they say?"

And me and OMC have agreed in the past on some things, so it's not surprising we would both be ignored by the kind of person who puts people on ignore.

Bryant

[HughBeaumont]

93. Siiiiighhhh . . .

I put people on ignore for two reasons -

1. Support of free trade or job offshoring. That's a Republican economic position, end of sentence.

2. Serial shit-stirring and flaming for the sake of shit-stirring and flaming. It adds nothing to the conversation and creates worthless sub-threads such as these.

I fucking HATE the answer "why do you care"? Because if I don't, who the fuck WILL, that's goddamned WHY. That's why you get fuckers like Bewsh and soon to be that douche McClown as president. Because no one CARES.

[bryant69]

96. You certainly have a simplistic attitude on Free Trade

I favor Fair Trade though - I certainly oppose economic isolationism as a dead end.

By shit stirring I mean posting opinions that are at variance with DU's collective wisdom?

Bryant

[HughBeaumont]

117. My attitude on trade is far from simplistic.

Read my journal. Trade as corporatists see it isn't/was never really meant to be "fair". That defeats the whole purpose (as in Advantage: corporatists). The globalism defenders can't even rah-rah about lower prices on goods any longer. Like it was said in another thread . . . I wonder if they saw the food shortages/crises in their master plan of the "rising tide lifting all boats".

And by shit-stirring, it goes beyond difference of opinion/"playing Devil's advocate" once or twice. I'm talking the posters that have to be curmudgeon finger-waggers about their positions (which are usually non-progressive and Lieber-like) for real; when they dive into downright mean, rude and Yahoo message board-level bullshit. That kind of thing.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

164. I think it was gender-neutral "they." You know, the same as "he or she."

And therefore referring only to OMC's post.

And yes, I too think the quest for linguistic gender neutrality may have gone too far.

[Skittles]

183. it's not uncommon for the same kind of people to be ignored either n/t

[earth mom]

98. Are you posting under TWO user names? Because why would you reply like that?

:wtf:

[petronius]

16. He offered to buy you a pony, but I think the time limit has expired

Seriously, why not just log out and take a look if you're curious? :shrug:

[Marrah_G]

46. If you have them on ignore why do you care?

[HughBeaumont]

62. If I have them on ignore, why do you care whether I care or not?

See, I can do this same, shit-stirring snarkiness that OMC does and it gets us absolutely NOWHERE!! :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

[Marrah_G]

90. Sorry it just seems odd to ignore someone and then want to know what they said

Anyway, I don't really care what you do, it just sounded weird.

[spoony]

154. Some people really like bragging about being snobs.

I doubt they even have people on ignore, they just like sticking their toffee noses in the air.

[Lorien]

139. Lol! Me too! "ignored" is at the beginning of so many flame wars

it gets so tiresome.

[baby_mouse]

256. I also.

Judging from the responses, I'm doing reasonably well.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

23. Not Your Business What House Someone Chooses To Build. Sorry.

[LanternWaste]

35. We may not have a choice as to what a person buys

We may not have the choice as to what a particular person buys, but it is collectively our business.

The energy inefficiency of many home builders is our business. How many of them that are sold is our business. How much they cost our planet is our business.

But sure-- they can buy what they want... and we may (or may not) call them on it because it's part and parcel of everyone's business.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

39. There Are People In The World Who Would Be Thankful To Live In A Box.

Tell me... How big is your home, compared to a box?

Like I said to another poster: You're guilty too. Talk to me when you're not.

[LanternWaste]

47. Person in a box is guilty too.

Person in a box is guilty too. Anyone not dead of starvation is guilty.

Degrees of guilt are relevant. Degrees of excesses are relevant.

Therefore, it is our business. Sorry


"How big is your home, compared to a box?"
How big is the box?


Edited: spelling

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

52. Yes. Damn Those Electric Consuming Boxes! Damn Them To Hell!!!!!!!!!!!

:rofl:

[LanternWaste]

58. never been guilty of excesses at another person's expense?

Person in box is/has never been guilty of excesses at another person's expense? Sorry, again, pal, we're all collectively guilty and all collectively innocent.

But yeah-- way to add depth and relevance to conversation, chief. :eyes:

Anyway-- how big is the box-- I still wanna compare it to my spacious and palatial apt.

[Gormy Cuss]

43. OMC, I doubt that many people "want" those houses. It's linked to perceived status and value.

If the developers started marketed energy and space efficient houses rather than bigger and bigger ones then the perception of a good house would shift. With the way oil prices are headed these days the smaller house trend may be the next hot trend.

As for who's business it is, when one large house is built the impact on resources is trivial to the community but when every new development involves large houses with lots of materials used in construction and more energy resources needed to light, heat, and cool, it becomes a community issue whether such development should be encouraged. Such development may strain the energy production capacity of local utilities and have an impact on waste management costs when big houses replace smaller ones.
Typically however the only calculation made is how much property tax revenue those large square footage houses will generate.

So while it's not my business as a private citizen to tell you as another private citizen how big your house should be, from a public policy standpoint there are ramifications of average house size trends and that is all of our business.

[tabasco]

74. You are confusing him with big words and the concept of the common good.

Don't waste your time trying to teach pigs to fly.

[Gormy Cuss]

80. OMC is fully capable of understanding big words and the common good.

Whether he chooses to argue against the common good is up to him.

[dropkickpa]

94. Not to mention the destruction

Of wild areas and the damage the chemicals used to maintain the house/lawn/pool/etc does to the local environment. The effect housing plans have on local watersheds and runoff patterns is damaging, too. A local example is Girty's Run in Millvale, PA has had several instances in recent years when it has seriously flooded, destroying peoples homes (most notably when hurricane Ivan blasted through). The cause has been pinpointed as new housing construction upstream altering natural runoff patterns.

Not to mention the idiotic whining about wildlife "invading" housing areas. "Oh no! There's raccoons, possums, and coyotes invading my yard! Damned groundhogs messin up my lawn! HALP!" Meanwhile, it's the other way around. People are the invaders.

[Quantess]

134. Eh, actually it is everyone's business.

That's why there are zoning laws and building codes, and that's why you need permits and inspectors to build anything.

Big houses with postage stamp yards happen to get approved most of the time, but that doesn't mean communities don't have any say what other people build. So yes, it is other people's business.

[Hardrada]

176. Filthy reactionary White Guardist wrecker!

To the Gulag with you, running dog of the capitalists!

[riverdeep]

192. That's a blanket statement that doesn't reflect even basic truth.

Zoning laws meddle in people's idea of what they want to build. Those laws were ostensibly created by the community to dictate how and where homes are built (they are often written with developers, and the local 'lawmaker' gets a kickback, but that's for another discussion).

Homeowners' Associations play a large role in how houses in a certain community look.

It's already other people's business.

[bunkerbuster1]

199. Of course it is.

Locally, globaly... what you've written is just wrong on so many levels.

[Hugabear]

9. All that waste - not to mention the energy that such a house will suck up

It might be "their business", but all of these "McMansions" ultimately affect all of us, with all the energy they require.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

26. You're Guilty Too. Talk To Me When You're Not.

[Hugabear]

56. Guilty of what?

How do you know what my lifestyle is? I don't live in a large, extravagant house. Matter of fact, I live in a house that's quite old, and pretty darn small.

[Skittles]

184. give it up,

that poster is a complete ass

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

249. There's a bright side...

You don't need to look which part to kick!

[LanternWaste]

71. May a drunk not speak of alcoholism?

Why do you believe those who hold amounts guilt should be denied a place in the conversation?

May a drunk not speak of alcoholism?

May a veteran not speak of conflict?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

75. Course He Can. But Sticking His Nose Up In The Air At Other Drunks, Is, Well, A Tad Hypocritical...

[LanternWaste]

87. What if he's asking, "why does that drunk need so much booze?

What if he's asking, "why does that drunk need so much booze?

I see so one sticking their noses in the air. Maybe that's something else you merely infer-- or, as you put it, another one of your "facts"...





On edit: are hypocrites not to talk of another's hypocrisy also? :shrug:

[Squatch]

95. Sticking his nose up other drunks...whaaaa?

:wow:

[spoony]

155. Too fucking right.

[PassingFair]

194. Not to mention deteriorating urban housing stock...

that could use repair and renovation.

[PVnRT]

21. Except that now it's everyone's business

...with Congress likely to do some kind of buyout nonsense to bail out people who bought more home than they needed/could afford.

[we can do it]

27. Yeah and the Same Small Penis Idiots Drive Gas Sucking Behemoths

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

31. Hehehehe You Said Penis And Sucking...

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

34. Thin skin much?

When people do dorky things, other people will comment. Deal with it.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

36. Stop Projecting.

I simply answered sincerely and matter of factly, with the only real answer. Guess you didn't like that, so you actually were in a tizzy enough to have to respond back to me as if I was complaining or something in an effort to squash my comments. Too funny! Talk about thin skin LOL. Oh noessssss, OMC commented back logically and in a way I disagree with! I just HAVE to try and tear him down. I can't let that comment stand! I can't I can't I can't!!!!!

:rofl:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

54. Take a good look at the posts in this subthread you started and ask yourself a question:

"Do I sound like a rational person?"

[Tesha]

61. He's probably got himself on "ignore" ;-). (NT)

[Vanje]

68. That would explain a lot nt

[spoony]

156. Yeah, "live and let live" is so damn irrational

So is freedom to choose where to live.

[Quantess]

168. Another simplistic answer to a complex situation.

[spoony]

175. There is no "answer" because there is no "question"

You nor I nor anyone else has any business telling anyone what size of house they should live in. People have the freedom to buy what house they want to.

I have, in not that terribly long on DU, seen people presume to tell others a great deal: where they may shop, what they may eat, what size lawn is acceptable (if ANY!), what they must drive, etc etc. I have opinions on these things, too, but the world would be in far better shape if the people who spend so much time judging everyone else's efforts as insufficient would spend that energy on their own.

[Quantess]

177. I hope you're sexy, because you talk like a bimbo.

:P

[spoony]

180. Yes I am, and that would be "mimbo" but

it doesn't really change the fact that shaking one's fist at people in SUV's or big houses doesn't do shit for the environment. Our individual efforts are more productive than our wagging fingers.

[Quantess]

181. Okay, Spoony, this is a subject I have some knowledge about.

Maybe you can be nice to the next person who acts like a blowhard to you when you try to tell them something.

[spoony]

182. And when during that shall I call them a bimbo?

It seems like an "after the second course" thing, but I'm open to other suggestions.

[Pierre.Suave]

214. Perfect reply

Bravo!

[LanternWaste]

72. others may see it simply as mere opinion.

"matter of factly, with the only real answer"
"OMC commented back logically "

Well, you may call it 'logically', others may see it simply as mere opinion.

[stanwyck]

53. OK. But if you've ever read Dante

you'll know where gluttony rates as a level of Hell. (By the way, gluttony isn't just about food. It's about taking more than you need. If you're at all ecologically minded, you'll understand the concept.)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

77. Worry About Your Own Sin.

Leave others to theirs...

[stanwyck]

97. Ah, I knew it. I struck a nerve

with the gluttony remark. I'm prescribing a higher education for you. It will definitely help with progressive thought.
Start with Shakespeare and work your way up to Milton and Dante. You'll be amazed at the improvement.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

123. You Consider 7th Grade Higher Education? Sheesh. You Have Some Low Standards.

Not sure about your schooling, but we read Dante's inferno in 7th grade I think...

Maybe that's higher education to you? How sad. :rofl:

[stanwyck]

158. Yes, but in 7th grade, you were only reading

a translation.

[girl gone mad]

125. Why?

We don't do that with murderers. drunk drivers, rapists, etc.

[fascisthunter]

248. .

:thumbsup:

[LongTomH]

70. I would question your assmption!

Given the realities of:

1) An growing cohort of older, "empty=nesters" - whether they're retired or not.
2) Growing numbers of "child-free" couples, who have decided for one reason or another not to have children.
3) Growing numbers of singles.
4) Growing numbers of single-parent families with one, maybe two children, AND low income.

Add to this, the fact of increasing energy costs to heat and cool those homes AND falling real incomes for most Americans.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

78. None. Of. Your. Business.

[lumberjack_jeff]

110. You raise another question

Why do they want them?

They cost more to heat, to insure, to pay taxes on and to fill with stuff. They take more effort to clean and more effort to maintain. They take huge buttloads of money to service the debt on them (or for those who can pay cash - in lost opportunity cost).

The problem isn't that people have too much, it's that they want too much. Our collective scramble for that ring has a huge social cost.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A

When we built a house last year, our parameters were:
1) no more than 2000sf
2) 4 bedrooms
3) at least two baths
4) it had to fit with the site.



Not bad for a 40-something geek. The shoulder on my hammer-swinging arm is finally recovering. 1900sf 4br, 2 1/2 baths. Comfortable and nice.

Not quite debt free, but building it ourselves was much cheaper than buying it.

[ileus]

141. very nice home, I built my first two...

I've owned 4 homes now, I bought my first for the back taxes and allowing the people 5 years rent free. sold it and made 20k, built my second home with that and 45k and sold it 3 years later made 40k, built my third and sold it for 60k over my investment. I now have that 60k in my current home and I hope this is my last home.

[TommyO]

145. As unpopular as this opinion seems to be, it's the right answer

Who is to say what is the right house for anybody, other than the people buying the house? Is my house too large at 1,800 sq ft for a single man with three cats? Should I downsize and live in a shoebox condo again, only to pay higher utilities because it was under-insulated and all electric? If I had a 3,000 sq ft house, would that be too big? Only I can say what is right for me.

[Kaleva]

206. I agree with your opinion

[Skittles]

179. the better question is WHY DO THEY WANT THEM

it absolutely sickens me what I see, knowing how much of the world lives

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

219. Because We're All Fucking Spoiled Rotten.

[Rockholm]

198. I Agree.

[RadiationTherapy]

217. Socialism is coming and it is because of people who think like you.

The irony is chilling.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

220. Okie Dokie Pokey!!!

:hi:

[RadiationTherapy]

227. Oh, one of those condescending ones. Now I know.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

229. Excuse Me? You Better Come At Me With Respect Son. I'm The King Of The Condescending Ones.

Now fall unto your knees and bow.

:rofl:

[RadiationTherapy]

237. Socialism will come because people like you are more interested

in one liners and ego. Meanwhile the "unwashed masses" are reaching a boiling point and socialism, communism and revolution are their solutions; ANYTHING but the corrupt capitalism and entitlement to "anything I can afford" we have had for so long.

I know. It's funny to be the "anything I want as big as I want as many I want when I want" on a liberal board, but the backlash you create is more than you realize. You walk away self-satisfied and laready half forgetting this thread. Others walk away with a renewed sense of tearing down this economy.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

240. Okie Dokie Pokey!!!

:hi:

[fascisthunter]

221. Ahh, But You are Wrong. It's Everybody's Business

as population grows and Global Warming is an issue for everyone, being wasteful is no longer a a justified priviledge.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

228. No It's Not. You Want It To Be, But It's Not. Sorry.

[fascisthunter]

236. Yes It Is... You Live on the Same Planet as the Rest of Us

You don't get special rights to screw it for the rest of us just because you have more money. That privilege you have is artificial and bad for everyone. It will change.... whether you want it to or not. Now it's up to you whether you give a damn or not, but that is the way it is, and I sure you don't care. It's the way you and others like you want it to stay, until you are dead of course then it doesn't matter what happens after that.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

238. Psssssssttttt....... Got A Secret For Ya...

None. Of. Your. Business.

[fascisthunter]

242. Psssst... yes it is

and you'll have to deal with it, because we have to deal with your waste.


Oh... and that was not a secret but is common knowledge.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

244. Psssssttttt..... Like, It Really Isn't.

But go on thinkin it is. Not like you're doin a damn thing to change anything.

:rofl:

[fascisthunter]

245. You Don't Have to Pretend to Know Something You Don't

It's ok.... I understand. You need to counter my statement about you not giving a damn. :think:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

246. Yes! You're Absolutely Right!

Being all huffy puffy on a message board to the reality that what house someone buys is none of your fucking business, is CERTAINLY going to help thwart global warming! Yayyyyyy for you!!!!! Yayyyyyy for fascisthunter!!! Hoorahhhhh!!!!!

:rofl:

[fascisthunter]

247. I Knew I Hit a Nerve

:nopity:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

251. You Stub Your Toe Or Something?

Cause, like, the only nerve of mine you hit was my funny bone, since I've been laughing my ass off at you.

:rofl:

[fascisthunter]

253. No, I Told You Something You Didn't Want to Hear

laughing icons aren't fooling me. I know I pissed you off.:evilgrin:

You live in a World with other people... deal with it.

[datasuspect]

261. have you sought therapy yet?

or is this grief talking?

sometimes it's better to handle the walking wounded with more care.

even if they are batshit crazy.

[Warpy]

2. Profit margin

A builder would have to build five moderate income level houses to earn the same profit he gets on one white elephant of a yuppie showplace.

That's why.

[yardwork]

65. That's exactly the reason.

[Quantess]

100. That's the reason. Exactly.

The developer wants the maximum return on the investment.

[HughBeaumont]

120. Even if the homeowner gets stiffed eventually when things go bad.

So pretty much the only reason to build these wasteful pieces of crap is for flip-value.

[Quantess]

124. They were a better deal for the builder than the buyer, I would guess.

But we've all seen abandoned construction projects, so that is probably going to change.

[riverdeep]

193. The taxpayer is now going to get stiffed.

People who have never even owned a home are going to bail out those who lived in opulence. Individual choices have cumulative, large-scale effects. That's why it becomes other people's business. The guy who wrote 'The Tragedy of the Commons', Garrett Hardin, way back in 1968 understood this well. And people would be shocked at what he considered other people's business, including reproduction. Don't necessarily agree with all his views, btw, but on the commons- he was astute.

[Quantess]

126. This is the basic reason for big houses with dinky yards:

In many suburbs and towns, zoning and land use laws determine the minimum lot size, and whether single-family, or multiple residents are allowed. Typically in subdivisions, the lots are divided up as small as zoning laws allow, in order to build the maximum number of homes. But each home is built with a huge square footage, because homes with more square footage sell for more money.

[Elspeth]

212. Good points, quantessd

Good post

[flvegan]

3. Because the Joneses have a 5,500 square foot home.

Must have more/bigger/better.

[Xenotime]

92. Exactly. The carbon footprint these MEGA-homes generate are obscene.

[NewJeffCT]

204. I know, look at Al Gore & John Edwards

and their huge carbon footprint mega homes.

:popcorn:

[bunkerbuster1]

200. In slight defense of "keeping up with the Joneses"...

What's often left out of the discussions of gigantism in housing, is what really, truly drives it.

People wind up buying more than they want/need based on a lot of things, but one of those is a very rational decision: they are trying to live in the highest-rated school district they can afford. They may not really care much about square footage; they may not even want it, but if that's what's out there (and often, that's ALL that's available--big, stupid things with more space than a family needs or wants) it's not exactly feasible to downsize a house once you've bought it.

A lot of lawsuits have been brought forward, trying to equalize funding for schools and getting less money from property taxes, but in most places in America, the "better" neighborhoods mean better schools.

And I can't fault people for wanting to cling tight to the lowest rung of the ladder, for dear life, for their kids.

[TechBear_Seattle]

5. Yes

Your two options -- people have gotten greedy and are financially stupid -- are not mutually exclusive. :hi:

[Rob H.]

6. How else are they gonna show the world how much money they have?

:sarcasm:

I've often wondered the same thing re: home size vs financial stupidity--the former president of the company I work for moved from a 6000 square foot home to an 8500 square foot home last year. The craziest part? He and his wife are the only people who live there.

[HughBeaumont]

14. Come on, I bet at least two of those 8 bedrooms in that fun house . . .

. . . are used to store their Sharper Image/Skymall goodies!

:P

[seemslikeadream]

7. Because developers wanted to put as much house on a lot that they could

MONEY

[Johonny]

40. I agree

They buy up lots. Build a bigger house and try to sell it for up to twice what the lot was worth before the super sized house. The problem is around me these supersized houses lost all their prospective buyers in the last 6 months. They now sit MT i surrounded by a neighborhood of normal sized homes.

[Quantess]

170. But did you notice, that as sub-prime mortgages increased,

so did oversized "McMansions".

It was almost like a collusion between the home builders and the mortgage industry.

Let's build the biggest homes that people wish they could afford, while you give them loans they wish they could pay back! And let's keep this racket going as long as we can reap big profits!

[dbonds]

11. Its an excess and waste. Part of the old mentality.

With the new economy and global warming forcing people to become more green, those houses will be like dinosaurs.

[thereismore]

12. Because they can be sold for most profit. Unless people stop buying them

they will keep building them. To me, these big houses aren't even cozy. I like to be cozy and close with my family. In a big house you might as well be alone.

[HughBeaumont]

29. That's what a lot of buyers/speculators were told.

A lot of people were told during the end of the Clinton years that the stock market always goes up too. Didn't a book come out during then called "Dow 36000"?

People don't tend to yell "TIMBER" until it's too late, though . . .

[zanne]

13. I was talking to somebody about that yesterday!

I went to see my niece's new home a few weeks ago. She has two kids, a boyfriend and one stepdaughter. OK--so five people. Two two-stall garages, three floors of living space and cathedral ceilings for the bedrooms. Many walk-in closets (actually, you could "take a long walk in" closets.) I really don't think it's anything other than conspicuous consumption and the "I have a bigger house than you do" syndrome.

Meanwhile, the back yard is too small for a swimming pool. I don't get it, either.

[gatorboy]

28. And they squeeze these houses together like sardines.

It's ridiculous how close they build these new homes together. Sure the homes are nice but like you said, there is no room outside. No yard, no tress. They're like mobile home parks for houses!

[riverdeep]

196. 'Outside'?

What is this outside you speak of?

Dad goes from the home's heated garage to the parking garage at work.

Mom gets into the SUV in the garage and experiences a few moments of outsideness between the store and the car.

Little Billy and Jenny, having their P.E. dropped and recess reduced, go from the car to school to car to home. Where they play games like Wii to simulate riding a bike, or playing baseball. No outside needed.

And nobody walks, not just in L.A., but anywhere, anymore.

[YOY]

15. My friend saw a Mc Mansion going up in smoke the other day

It was a huge faux-plantation affair in Virginia. 6,000 sq feet at least.

So big that it was a huge matchbox when the fire hit the place turned into a carnal house. The father (who went back in to rescue the kids) and two children 3 and 8 died in the blaze. They can't find the remains of the 3-year-old. It is possible she was cremated it was so hot. According to my friend, the flames were so hot (literally RED) and loud that from 100 feet away he felt it strongly on his face and couldn't hear anything else.

I don't know what started it. I can only wonder if they had a more meager house that they would have survived.

I live in 900 square feet with my wife and daughter. It's a bomb shelter for the sheer amount of inflammable cement and brick that was used when it was built pre-WWII.

The way he described the blaze and the tragedy chilled my blood.

[yardwork]

66. How awful and sad!

[theboss]

122. For the record, 8 people were living in that house

http://cms.firehouse.com/content/article/article.jsp?id=59177§ionId=46

I'm assuming it's the same house because how many children have been killed in Virginia housefires this month?

[YOY]

195. Ugh...looks like it.

So tragic.

[Auggie]

17. I imagine developers turn a larger profit on them, same way the auto companies

make more on SUVs. So they market larger houses as status symbols.

Up till the age of ten I grew up in a house with one bathroom and two bedrooms. Probably 1500 square feet. Family of four. Mid 60's. We managed.

[hfojvt]

18. they aren't all that big

but obviously there's more profit in a big house. A new home is gonna be expensive anyway probably and the people who can afford new, want big. My brother and sister have enough stuff that they fill up that big house too. I live in a 115 year old house that's pretty big for one person. I kinda planned ahead optimistically though. I was hoping to find a girlfriend and wanted a house big enough for her to move into with her kid. Now I have filled it up so much with my own books and other junk. It feels like there would not be enough room for another person in this three bedroom house.

[Quantess]

173. Hi hfojvt....

A house built 115 years ago was often intended for a big, old-fashioned family. There may have even been rooms for extended family, or maybe even housekeepers and farm-hands.
But it doesn't sound like it, in your case. You haven't mentioned the square footage, but it sounds like you have a cool, older, smaller home (those are my favorites).

Big, older homes had a valid existence in their day. The question remains, what is the societal value of newly constructed giant homes?

[PVnRT]

19. No idea. They must be a pain to clean.

I'd prefer a modest house with a nice basement you can remodel, but maybe I'm just weird.

[Warpy]

33. That's what I explained to the money guy when I inherited

a couple of years ago, that living in one of those yuppie barns means cleaning the damned thing.

My time for entertaining is over. There is no earthly reason for me to have separate living and family rooms, an eat in kitchen plus a dining room, and silliness of silliness, a media room. I'd spend every waking hour chasing dust and grime.

I'll continue to cling to my shabby little house in a funky neighborhood. It's a post WWII crackerbox that was built as a starter home for a returning soldier until he found a wife and she produced a second child.

[HughBeaumont]

42. Come ON!! Everyone needs a MUD Room!

Isn't it obvious???!?!?!?

[yardwork]

73. Actually, I'd love to have a mud room!

I'm very happy in my little condo, but the one thing I would love is a mud room - just a tiny one. My patio opens right off the dining room, and the cats and I track mud and pollen and grit into the dining room every time we go in and out. A mud room has a place in every house, no matter how small!

Now, a media room, a separate dining room/breakfast nook/eat-in kitchen, separate family room/living room - those are things I happily live without! I only need one table to eat, one sitting area, one small area to cook and clean, and two bedrooms - one for me, one for my sons.

[HughBeaumont]

76. I couldn't take a photo of what would be called a "mud room" in my house . . .

I think they used to be called "breezeways" and they were merely an entrance to the basement.

[yardwork]

106. The entrance to the basement in the house I grew up in was a door set in the ground.

[HughBeaumont]

119. I've seen those in movies and wondered what that would be like.

I could be wrong, but it seems you'd almost have to have a strong padlock on it to prevent thievery.

[yardwork]

128. My mom doesn't lock her doors and nobody's ever thought of locking the cellar.

There isn't anything down there except a dirt floor, the furnace, and an old early 19th century fireplace - it might have been the kitchen once upon a time.

Cellar doors like that are awkward to open. You have to reach down, grab the handle, and pull up. Then you see old stone stairs leading down into the dark, damp cellar.

[TheCentepedeShoes]

254. And an equally stong lock

to keep the tornado from sucking you out.
Edit to add: we had the neighborhood storm cellar for year in KS.

[dmr]

136. We called it a landing

My old house had a landing at the back door. Only big enough to kick off your boots and hang coats on a hook that led to the basement, or into the kitchen.

At the front door, we had a small vestibule. A small coat closet to the side and the front room a step away from the door.

We were talking about this topic last week here at home. Why do people need all that space? I know I'd like to have more storage and a larger kitchen, but frankly with the cost of heating and cooling, I'm happy with its size.

As someone has already mentioned, a bigger home means more cleaning.

With all the building and redecorating shows on TV, it seems to wear people down into believing they aren't living that "American Dream" unless they have or do all the bells and whistles. These shows are akin to the old days when people would 'window-shop' through a Sears Roebuck catalog. In those days you could close that catalog and go about the business of living. Today, we are constantly bombarded to buy, buy, buy - that what we have isn't good enough.

[Gormy Cuss]

129. Mud rooms were practical spaces, usually unheated and barely finished.

The McMansion "mud rooms" are as overblown as the designer laundry rooms also included in the McMansion floor plans.

[Warpy]

81. Whatever architect designed that abomination

will be cursed by the homeowner, if there is one.

You've got muddy boots tracking through the laundry area and Mom (the maid) having to traipse through the mud trail to get to the washer and dryer. With the dryer on the opposite wall from the washer, she has to hope like hell she doesn't drop any socks in transit because they'll be dirtier than they were when she put them into the washer from all the mud on the mud room floor.

Christ, what an idiot! It's obvious he never asked a mother about his fine plans.

[meegbear]

20. The same reason people NEED to drive a Hummer ...

false sense of status
small genitalia

take your pick

[no_hypocrisy]

22. IMO, it comes with the devolution of the American family.

Less common rooms so everyone isn't likely to run into each other and hang out. Each child has his/her own bedroom, god forbid sisters and brothers SHARE a room. Same thing with bathrooms. Then there are vanity rooms like a "game room", a "movie room", a kitchen that a caterer would envy, etc. So with the embrace of individuality and selfishness, you tend to add square footage to the "average" American home.

[Traveling_Home]

24. I know!!! I know!!!

Folks used to spend their home time half working and playing OUTSIDE in their yards and half INSIDE - if that much. I remember - I'm old.

Now we've become an indoor society - air conditioning, big HDTV, computers - we spend almost all of out home time INSIDE.

We need big houses and no yards.

WHAT DO I WIN????????

[KillCapitalism]

30. Gotta be the rethug voter "bigger is better" attitude.

The people that buy these huge homes are usually the same ones driving a Hummer H2 with a W'04 sticker still on it.

I don't get it, the bigger the house, the higher your energy bill, and the more you pay out in property taxes. I would assume the latter hurts people more than the former since property taxes have become just about rapacious in recent years.

When my wife and I buy a home, all we want is 1,500-1,750 sq. ft. at most on a 3/4 acre lot so we can have a garden & a few fruit trees.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

32. Because they're mindless keep-up-with-the-Joneses types

That's the only reason that makes sense to me.

[HughBeaumont]

38. Except you really don't even see builders do anything less than 5000 Sq ft anymore.

It's kind of a combination of both. People feel they need these wasteful McCastles for whatever reason; in turn, developers don't do 1-2000 sq feet. Also, I think it's because most modern couples aren't DIYers; either because they aren't interested, or the most likely culprit is that they just don't have time thanks to the modern workplace.

After all, how can anything less than 5-7 bedrooms possibly accommodate my wife and two kids? :sarcasm:

[Ganja Ninja]

37. Try and find a builder that will build a small home.

Most only want to cater to the more affluent buyers. Of course now it might be a little easier then it was a year ago.

[L. Coyote]

41. They don't. But, the market dictates what sells. And, that is changing

as the costs of energy rise, larger homes become less affordable.

This relates to investing in your home, and rising values. People locked in as much home as they could get mortgages, on the speculatiun they would profit more on a large house increasing in value more than a small one. Now, many of those people are bankrupt or losing their homes, taking losses, or just sinking into deeper debt.

Homes become outdated. Structures with lead paint are no longer valuable, old homes without insulation are outdated, etc. McMansions may become outdated too, as economic conditions change. Energy efficiency is the trend, and an important resale concern as energy prices rise.

[The2ndWheel]

44. They don't need to be, but they can be

As long as the ability exists, then that ability will be used. When energy is cheap, you can't be suprised when it gets wasted(obviously depending on who is defining that word).

[Fox Mulder]

45. They don't NEED to be big. People want them big.

Why? Because they're greedy and they feel they deserve large homes, regardless of how much resources are being wasted.

[raccoon]

48. Rec'd. I totally agree. I think one reason is that developers like to build bigger houses

because they make more money on them than on smaller houses.

And there are other reasons. Some people want to buy bigger houses to be more bigdoings.

[madrchsod]

49. usually they are as big as their egos

my wife ,daughter ,and i live in 1200sq ft and it`s still a bitch to clean..


in fact i should be doing that right now...

[kestrel91316]

50. Because the owners' penises are so small?

I happen to like a smaller house. I am into "cozy" and "homey", not "cavernous" and "ostentatious". If I won the lottery tomorrow I STILL wouldn't have one of those behemoths.

[AlCzervik]

51. we used to have a 3500sf for just the three of us, the novelty wore off pretty soon. The

a/c bills were HUGH! and i was living in Texas. I was born and raised 6 miles north of Boston and we always lived in a small house so the idea of this large home was kind of appealing you know, high ceilings, everybody has their own bathroom but we ended up having about 5 rooms we didn't use and it was just too much for one person to keep clean.

[Arugula Latte]

55. Because the point of being American is to waste as many resources as possible

apparently.

[Vanje]

57. All that shit they own needs a roof over it

People dont live in that vast space. Those beige mansions are to house the owners stuff.

Miles and miles of square feet of attatched 2+ car garages, so that cars are better housed than a lot of people.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

165. Are you familiar with this piece of wisdom by George Carlin?

My spider-sense says this is where your post came from:

http://www.writers-free-reference.com/funny/story085.htm

That's all you need in life, a little place for your stuff. That's all your house is: a place to keep your stuff. If you didn't have so much stuff, you wouldn't need a house. You could just walk around all the time.

A house is just a pile of stuff with a cover on it. You can see that when you're taking off in an airplane. You look down, you see everybody's got a little pile of stuff. All the little piles of stuff. And when you leave your house, you gotta lock it up. Wouldn't want somebody to come by and take some of your stuff. They always take the good stuff. They never bother with that crap you're saving. All they want is the shiny stuff. That's what your house is, a place to keep your stuff while you go out and get... more stuff!

[High Plains]

59. I hope they enjoy their utility bills.

[El Pinko]

60. I dunno, but I'd rather have 2000 sqft of quality than 5000 sqft of stucco crapola.

I HATE the McMansions, because most of them look so CHEAP. The materials, fit and finish are shoddy, and the design is ungainly.

I'd rather live in the "Brady Bunch" house than most of these McMansions.

[HughBeaumont]

64. Balsawood, brother . . . BALSAwood is the way to go!

Who cares about impending mold issues and weak walls? BIGGAH IS BETTAH!

Plus, you get one of these:

[yardwork]

63. Because developers make a lot more money on big houses than small houses.

That's the answer, pure and simple. It's more profitable to built a few giant houses on a plot of land than to build a larger number of smaller houses on the same plot. It's more profitable to stick a lot of useful bells and whistles in a giant house - including two-story foyers and living rooms that waste space - than it is to build thoughtful, carefully-designed smaller houses.

[undeterred]

67. Gas and electric bills weren't high enough?

[NNN0LHI]

69. Increased price of lots these days has to have some effect

When I moved into this subdivision 19 years ago lots started at 36 thousand dollars. Now they are all worth +100 thousand dollars.

Doesn't make any sense to build a cheap house on an expensive lot.

Thats some of it I think?

Don

[Tracer]

82. Yes. thats a big part.

My town has been built out so much that the few remaining lots are not the 'best'.

For instance, there's a new 4-house devlopment being built not far from me. One huge house has been completed. The prospective buyer will get a surprise when they look out the back windows, since the house backs up to migrant housing.

[Dreamer Tatum]

79. Their perception of what they need is as informed as yours, maybe moreso

First and foremost, take note that the average lot size for homes in development tracts has fallen over the years, so that
6000sf home is crammed in alongside others when in decades past it wasn't uncommon to find a 1700sf home on a quarter acre.
Building more house has a higher profit potential than selling the same house on a larger lot, especially in places like California.

Also, as recently as the early 70's, a 2000sf house was considered to be a large home.

I don't like the term 'McMansion,' because I don't pass judgement on where people choose to live. Do enormous homes cramped
closely together look stupid, and do they require excessive heating and cooling because of wasted cubic footage? Yeah, probably.
Do those private choices have unintended public costs? Probably, but only incrementally: a smaller home would nevertheless
cause the same number of toilet flushes, the same usage of washers and driers, and so on (having six bathrooms doesn't mean
you poop & pee three times more than you would if you only had two bathrooms).

You COULD argue that larger homes are in a sense more water-efficient because they tend to be on tiny lots with relatively little
greenspace, and therefore less to water.

It boils down to preferences, really...if you don't like big houses, then I guess don't live in one, and don't visit them.

[knitter4democracy]

83. I watched one of those HGTV shows once and was flabbergasted.

A couple with two sons the same ages as my kids (5 and 7) "needed" to sell their 22K s.f. home because it was "too small." Um, our home is 1800 s.f. with half a finished basement, and sometimes I think our house is too big. They had a nice layout and a nice neighborhood--it was a great house and actually big. They wanted a bigger yard, which I could see (not enough garden space), but mostly, they wanted a bigger house. The mom said that they needed at least a six bedroom house--one per kid, master, 2 offices, and guest bedroom. That's just crazy, I think.

[Miss Carly]

89. I watch House hunters alot

I can't believe how much people are willing to spend on a house, I know I couldn't afford the houses the people on the show are looking at....

Carly

[girl gone mad]

133. I could have..

afforded a much bigger, newer place than I have, but decided to go with small and cheap so that we could save more for retirement and travel.

[knitter4democracy]

148. I often wonder where those shows are filmed.

They'll show some ranch house that wouldn't be more than $125K here and say they're wanting to sell it for $600K. Shocks me every time. Is it all in California?

[Miss Carly]

163. I think it's in higher rent areas

So Cal
Florida
Las Vegas
NY
Portland
Dallas

I wish my 2200 sq ft house could find its way to one of those areas, I could make a profit
Carly

[Brigid]

210. I watch that show too.

I saw one woman spend condierably more than she was planning to for a gigantic four-bedroom house for herself and her son. The son was 17, which means that pretty soon she was going to be rattling around in that place all by herself. What was the point?

[Lorien]

143. That's nothing. I had a single friend with five cats who built a 10,000 sq. ft.

mansion on a lake. It had it's own movie theater. Needless to say, after a while the home owned HIM. Besides, can you imagine trying to find all the cats in a 10,000 sq. ft. home for a vet appointment? :crazy: Eventually he lost his job and his mansion; maybe for the best, because life is a lot less complicated in a reasonably sized home!

[knitter4democracy]

147. That's freakin' huge!

How do you clean a house that big? Fix stuff? Keep up with it? Ugh. That's way too much house.

[Lorien]

162. And he never even had any parties

He had a team of maids and gardeners...but really, what's the point? If you aren't going to fill up a place like that with your friends and coworkers on a regular basis, then I don't know what the guy was thinking (he said he was worried about having people over because of all of his art and collectibles). :eyes:

[knitter4democracy]

233. A huge house for a hermit?

Um, that's a huge waste of money. How odd.

I often think of our starter home--1200 s.f. in an older neighborhood with wonderful neighbors. If it had had a basement, I would never have moved.

[maui9002]

84. In a free country, citizens are free to make "bad" choices

and pay for them. Conversely, when people in free countries make "bad" choices that adversely affect others (so called externalities in economic lingo), the government may be justified in imposing some of those costs on the people that make "bad" choices. For example, those who buy very large homes and gas inefficient vehicles (SUVs) already pay more for utilities, taxes, and fuel as a result of their choices. But government could pass legislation that imposes even higher costs on whatever the legislature deems excessive. This is what led to the gas guzzler tax, which was later repealed. As mentioned in one of the prior posts, though, government intervention is problematic and social condemnation may be the better alternative.

[shanti]

91. heard from a (single) man

with a 3500 sf house as to why he needed one so big. the extra rooms each had a purpose: workout room, office, guest bedroom, etc. also he felt that he could re-sell it easier if it was bigger.

[sunnystarr]

99. ummmm... to house militia's when the people revolt?? (nt)

[gateley]

101. Because our society has conditioned us to believe

that lots of money = happiness. A huge home shows others how much money you have, and you probably bought it because you felt it might actually help fill that hole in your heart (that, try as you might, is there regardless of HOW much stuff you buy). When you have other people ooohing and aaahing over how "lucky" you are, you're able to tell yourself that maybe you ARE happy.

By the way, I think there's been a trend back toward small homes. Fewer 9,000 foot monstrosities are being built, and people are having difficulty selling them. I heard someone predict that they will become rooming houses in the not too distant future, so maybe there will be a benefit after all.

[treestar]

102. The market might be there

For smaller homes, a lot of them already exist. The building booms of the 60s, at least around here, created many developments of modest sized houses, and they are still standing, obviously, so that market might be pretty much saturated. There's some money in the new roofs they are starting to need, etc.

[nichomachus]

103. Do you think 44,000 sq ft is too big?

A husband and wife just built a vacation home in our town -- 44,000 sq ft -- a vacation home. It violates local zoning laws, but when you have that much money, you can browbeat local officials.

I live in an area where there are a lot of pricey developments -- homes ranging from $1.5 to $4 million at the low end. I go around to open houses just to entertain myself and see what you're getting for $3 million. Went into one brand new place and was looking in the kitchen. It was spiffy with its granite counter tops and chandelier over the kitchen island. But I noticed that the wall oven was placed in such a location that, when you stood in front of the oven, you couldn't open it fully because your back was against the opposite wall. There was no room. The oven door would open about half way and hit you in the chest.

There was a husband and wife looking at the same time. I showed the oven to the wife and asked "How do you get a 20-pound turkey out of that?" When I left, she was still looking at the oven.

What's amazing is that in some of these developments, you pay $2 million and up, but the giant houses are less than 12 feet from each other. One development you can see from the highway. All the giant houses are crammed together and surrounded by a huge wall, so all you can see are the roofs. It looks for all the world like a prison camp.

[yardwork]

108. Is it really 44,000 sq ft - not 4,400? Even 4,400 is huge.

I can't imagine a 44,000 sq ft house. It must look like a Sam's Club.

[nichomachus]

112. If it was 4,400 I wouldn't even mention it -- they are so common around her

There's another family's vacation home a couple of miles from that one that has a permanent staff of 120 people -- for a vacation home. I live in an area with a lot of big homes.

The guy with the 44,000 square foot home also has a 205-foot yacht. In fact, he has another yacht that follows his yacht around as a tender to carry supplies.

Welcome to John McCain's world.

[yardwork]

127. It's like ancient Rome. A few people are obscenely rich

while many others are losing their tiny little homes.

[knitter4democracy]

149. Holy crap! That's insane!

It's bigger than some hospitals I've seen. That would be a good use for a house that big, actually.

A staff of 120?! Even the nobility in the Victorian era in England rarely had that many servants at their main home, and labor was cheaper then. Crazy.

[KillCapitalism]

186. 44,000 sq. ft. home & 205-ft. yacht?!?!

He sounds like he belongs to Bush's true base, the have mores. What's their occupation? CEO?

[Javaman]

104. the age of the "big" anything is over.

there are still those that cling tenaciously to the old way of thinking, "I want it because I can" and they will go the way of gasoline powered cars.

Until the big anything no longer becomes cost effective in our dwindling supply of fossil fuels and just about any other commodity you can think of, people will continue to want to live in emotionless caverns and drive around in ego fueled land monsters.

At the end of the day, these people will be saddled with the bill for the cost of over consumption. Which will be, a vehicle that they can no longer afford to drive and a home they can no longer afford to live in.

[1776Forever]

105. My call from my experience - I grew up in a very tiny home with an out house....

until I was 8 years old. My family then finally moved to a home with indoor plumbing. My father and mother never owned a home and we always rented. Then when I had a family we always rented until I was in my 40's when we purchased our 1st little home. It was wonderful to have a house but it wasn't a home but just a house because I wasn't in a happy marriage. So again I moved and finally now in my 60's I have a home I love but it may be gone soon too because of high insurance and taxes here in Florida. It is only 3 bedrooms and 2 baths but it has a lovely yard that we have planted with all kinds of fruit trees and flowers. I don't really think that some people stop to think how short life really is and they put all the money they can into a house and don't think about the home that it is supposed to represent. Money does not equal happiness I believe. It can be a showplace and it can bring joy but so can doing good deeds and sharing one's wealth to make the world a better place when we leave it then when we came into it.

My 2 cents.

[yardwork]

107. I hope that you don't lose your home! You deserve it.

I chose to leave my marriage and large house. I loved my apartment - it was the first place I ever lived in on my own, the first place I ever paid for all by myself. Now I love my little condo. I love planting herbs in the back by the patio. You are so right - a home is what you make of it, and the best homes are built of love.

[1776Forever]

111. Thanks for the reply - it was heartfelt - Blessings

[yardwork]

113. What a beautiful picture! Thank you, and blessings to you.

[LazyBones]

109. because they can

Drive by Philly and that banner still hangs out over the luxury condos overlooking the Delaware. They built up Swedesboro so much in past 10 years that condos doubled in price. I laugh at the Toll Brothers house. Why would you buy a house for that price with a school district overrun with drugs and crime? Unless you are childless yuppies that just want something for show away from the city.

Cracks me up that have no land. They are more like over sized row homes and cookie cutters at that. I personally think most of them are empty houses. Big house no furniture or toys. I hardly see boats or any other toys in their yards. Guess they could have it docked and stored in the off season at the marina.

[Ronnie]

114. For all their stuff?

Apologies to George Carlin.

[pnwmom]

115. Here's another question.

Why do people buying their first home need new homes?

We've lived in three different homes over the decades, and they've all been at least 20 years old at the time of purchase.

[LazyBones]

116. when was a starter home $700K

That's OK, when did the asking price for a starter home become $700,000?

[pnwmom]

118. I don't think any house priced at $700 K would be considered a starter home.

Other than places in Manhattan or pockets in California.

In any case, I don't understand why people buying starter homes expect them to be new homes.

[NewJeffCT]

205. northeastern New Jersey, western CT and the Boston area, too

The average home in a lot of towns in Southwestern CT go for $1,000,000 to $1,500,000 or more. A well-maintained ranch home built in the 40s or 50s could easily go for $750,000.

New Canaan & Darien, two towns of about 20,000 people
http://www.moving.com/real-estate/compare-cities/results.asp?Zip1=06840&Zip2=06820

Westport & Greenwich. Westport has 30,000 people, Greenwich around 45,000
http://www.moving.com/real-estate/compare-cities/results.asp?Zip1=06880&Zip2=06830&sbmtZIP=Get+Report

So, these aren't exactly tiny enclaves of a few hundred people.

Of course, you could also find cheaper homes in other towns if you wanted to sacrifice a lot on school quality and safety.

[HughBeaumont]

189. A lot of people just aren't DIYers anymore.

It's either they aren't interested, or they just don't have the time. They want all the bells and whistles NOW, whether or not it's economically sound to do so. Big picture thinkers are also at a minimum as well, which leads to the couples that feel they need a new home now.

[superkia]

121. Probably the same people that wouldnt be caught dead in a...

caravan or minivan and they have to get their big SUV so they can look special. Gotta have the biggest and best to show people who you are...you know the whole " mine is bigger than yours " shit.

[kskiska]

130. 4 rooms, 1 bath, cellar/garage, attic

My dad bought this house in Connecticut 1948 or so and, at 87, still lives there. He finished another bedroom in the attic, but never put in a dormer, heat, or a bathroom up there because he didn't want his taxes increased. Four of us lived there. Today, similar houses in the neighborhood are going for $250,000. It'll probably end up as a teardown.

[HughBeaumont]

190. Aside from the 1 bath, why not make a home like this?

The energy bills probably didn't cost a whole lot. In the summer, that house would be easy to air out, easy to cool. Our house is like this only a little bigger and we got it for 108k. It's a breeze paying the mortgage on that every month, as opposed to a four-digit figure you'd be paying on a newer home.

I'm not saying make all of them this small, but isn't there a happy medium between this and a McCastle?

Plus, I think this is what people should be looking for in a starter home. Homes like this are far better built and sturdier than new ones anyway.

[notadmblnd]

131. people would think that we have modest means if we lived in modest homes

and we all know how important that is.... what other people think of us. :sarcasm:

[Burma Jones]

132. Let's see, I live in one of these big homes......although there are a lot bigger ones available

I've owned two of these older homes, and rented two others, and they were a much bigger pain in the ass than this house built in 2000. Even in this depressed market, the house has appreciated about 40% in the last 5 years - not bad for being financially stupid..... I do have a five person family, I guess that makes us straight up greedy as well. Our utility bills are steep, but not as steep as the older homes I've owned and only the tiny 2 bedroom, one bath place the wife and I rented before we started having kids had lower utility bills. What else.......about 5 years ago, Hurricane Isabel came through here. Older neighborhoods had a lot of tree damage, a lot of roof damage and some went without power for two weeks. We've also had a tornado touch down less than a mile away, no problem during that storm either. We didn't lose power, didn't lose a shingle and didn't lose any siding and the basement doesn't flood.

We own a hybrid Camry and a Kia minivan.

We didn't scoff at older houses, we just didn't want to have to maintain them as we had for our two previous homes.

We have had to replace all the Builder installed appliances, they were all shit, but the house is easily the best we've owned.

[spanone]

135. y u p p i e s

[ileus]

137. because no one wants an old cramped dump....

If you have the education that equals the income for a large house why not. This is still America for the time being, we're not forced into sq/ft limits yet.

There's nothing worse than having to worry about plumbing and unsafe 1940's wiring.

[Lorien]

144. There are millions of properties between "cramped dump" and "monster

McMansion". I've got a renovated 1920s 1800 sq. ft. home in a very nice neighborhood and it keeps me busy enough, even though the wiring and plumbing are fully up to code. Over sized 8,000+ sq. ft. homes aren't just a drain on energy and the environment, their a drain on families too. A huge home requires many additional hours of upkeep that the owners will either need to do themselves or need to earn enough $$ to have someone do it for them. Everyone works so hard for their "stuff" that they are forgetting what really matters in life; nature, each other, and creative endeavors. There's a reason this nation is taking more Prozac than any other.

[HughBeaumont]

153. Right, because 2-story entryways and banquet-hall living rooms are SO necessary.

Massive amounts of education doesn't usually guarantee a higher income. Maybe 30 years ago, but not now. Even the MBA is becoming as worthless as a bachelor's degree.

And you can always upgrade the 1940s wiring like I did to my house.

[Dora]

225. Education does not equal income.

Income equals income. Education marks how many years one has spent in training or in programs of experience. Education does factor into *potential* earnings, but a Ph.D. or MBA or JD does not an income make.

Those degrees are a more accurate representation of student loan debt.

Income is income.

[slackmaster]

142. My house was built in 1963 for a family that had three children at the time

Three more children made it definitely too small. They built an addition in 1968, which was used primarily as an office by the man of the house, who was a realtor.

With six kids in a four-bedroom house with few places to plug things in, there was a lot of bad energy in that household. In renovating the place I have noticed fist holes and kick holes in almost every flat surface.

The place was just fine for a married couple with one child. It would have been fine with two. As a divorced empty-nester I enjoy both the solitude and the space.

Not all new homes are huge BTW. There are plenty of condos and multi-family homes being built. The biggest difference between now and 40-50 years ago is the amount of yard space you get - Most newly constructed homes have little or none. I don't consider mine large, but my busy job and other activities like managing a political campaign don't leave me enough time to take care of that, or the house.

[galledgoblin]

146. if you're talking about houses built in the 'burbs,

then it's because the buyers just aren't thinking, or developers are outright conning them!!

there's no equity in those buildings, they are going to be the tear-downs of the ghetto in 20 years.

[burythehatchet]

151. because peckers can be really small

[OKthatsIT]

152. I dont like my big house...my husband is a packrat.

and I'm a minimalist. He wanted a big house...for what? It's just filled with nonsense.

I want a small house and a big garden. I want to raise laying hens and milking goats. And the friggin neighborhood association won't let me do what I want with my land. Well, at least I have my big compost and redworm buckets. I'd do just fine with simpler living. In fact, it would be sooooooooo refreshing.

[doc03]

157. For the same reason they buy big SUVs I guess n/t

[Pisces]

159. I would love a 5k sq. ft home. I have 2 kids and would like a playroom, 2 guest rooms( have large

family, a music/office , great room, kitchen and dining room, master and 1 room for kids to share. That would be my dream home. Is that what I have now, no. Crowded is how I grew up and crowded is how I live now, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't want more space.

[bunkerbuster1]

201. 5K? Really?

Seems like you could get all that space you want with about 3/5 of that square footage.

No matter how you slice it, 5K for four people is ridiculous.

[Kaleva]

202. The home I grew up in

was a three bedroom, one bathroom dwelling with a 60 amp service panel. It was adequate for the family of eight.

[knitter4democracy]

234. We have almost all that with 1800 s.f.

We only have one guest bedroom, so when everyone came for Thanksgiving, we put one in the basement play area. We have a den with a fireplace, a great room that's living and dining areas, and there's room in the kitchen for another dining area, but I put pantry stuff there.

I'd bet that if you look around, you could find that for much less.

[ColbertWatcher]

160. If people can afford big houses, who's to stop them.

The problem is, http://books.google.com/books?id=TI3WG0bXI1oC&pg=PA171&lpg=PA171&dq=poaching+housing&source=web&ots=wPyKhhoPw8&sig=QSc7jqBvrQEcRMettaB9hwwj2Qk&hl=en">"residential poaching", where the players in the housing market buy up as much property as they want, thus limiting the "supply" available to those who use homes as places to live as opposed to mere "investments".

People who cannot buy homes are then forced to rent, or do without.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre-Joseph_Proudhon">"Property as theft" indeed.

[mnhtnbb]

161. We had a 6000 sq ft. home from 1988-94 in St. Joseph, MO.

Built in 1924, it was rock solid. I loved that house. When we sold, it was to Mormons; she was pregnant
with her 9th. The neighbors tell me (via Christmas letters) that they think there are 15 kids there now.

We had two young sons when we lived there.

[shrike]

211. It's not so much 'big' as 'ugly' that bothers me

I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but around here, all we get are the utilitarian boxes that are beige, off-beige, and off-off-beige. Plus, they're all crammed together on postage stamp-sized lawns.

Then again, I guess there are small ugly houses, too.

[tomtomtom]

166. I'm going to build as big a Al Gore

its a free country right?

[Pierre.Suave]

216. Good Point

me too, what the hell.

[ItNerd4life]

230. Could you build me one too?

As a matter of fact, it only needs to be 1/10th the size.

Let me know when it's finished and where you built it please. :)

[leftofthedial]

167. it's the central lie of capitalism

that there will always be more and bigger and more and bigger.

and the real estate market is near, if not at, the core of capitalism.

[Kitty Herder]

172. I agree. And what a deadly lie it is.

It's using up our the resources of a finite planet and causing mass extinction. We can't survive if we don't give up on an economic model that demands constant growth. In the body, that's called cancer and it kills.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

169. Several reasons

1) They got it as an investment (well thats not working out so well but it is a valid reason for some people to try)

2) They have allot of family visit (again this is a weak reason but having to get three guest in my 900 sq ft condo along with my wife and two kids I can appreciate how nice an extra bedroom or two would have been

3) They worked hard all their lives for it and its what they want.

--

All three are valid, yet perhaps unwise, reasons some things we could do to mitigate the damage these things do is:

1) Charge a per sq ft property tax above say 2,500 square feet
2) Require all houses over 2,500 sq feet have zoned utilities
3) Require all houses over 2,500 sq feet have energy efficient windows, appliances, utilities (like tank less water heaters etc.), and high grade insulation
4) Charge a special utility tax to homes with more than 1,000 sq feet per resident...

[Kurovski]

171. They need to be big to fit our big fat overfed asses.

Kidding, kidding.

[Ellen Forradalom]

174. Zoning, property taxes, proximity to jobs, distance from urban crowding, fuel prices

and many other things influence house design. The fifties split-level was designed in response to property tax codes that counted floors in a home.

I am not an urban planning expert but we seem to have had a confluence of factors in the 90s that encouraged the house-on-steroids.

For the record, I haven't lived in a house since I left home, and prefer to live in smaller spaces. It is cheaper, simpler and lighter on the earth.

[HughBeaumont]

187. Speaking of which, I recently watched "The End of Suburbia" from our library . .

Pretty eye-opening movie. It really brings to light how poorly designed and planned the suburb is. What it all comes down to, again, is lack of foresight and the big picture. It was built, really, on the idea that energy was always going to be cheap and available. The originators of suburbs probably never took into account what a metropolitain area that centers around driving and not walking/adequate public transportation does to an environment, nor did they figure that it would require almost eternal sustainability to survive. They never asked "well, what happens IF the oil runs out or IF electricity grids can't sustain this demand"?

Newer behemoth mansions that are patently unnecessary only add to all the problems outlined in this movie, in addition to the pollution caused by the necessity of cars to go everywhere.

[bunkerbuster1]

203. Schools play a huge role.

A lot of excess square footage gets sold to parents who are just looking to buy in the best neighborhood for their kids' sake.

I don't need the size house I have (it's not huge, it's ~2800 sq. ft. or so), but to go smaller would mean a more marginal neighborhood, and next-level-down schools. Pretty much forced my hand.

[Ellen Forradalom]

208. That's a factor in selling the homes

I'm thinking of factors that influence the design of the homes in the first place. There really are more factors that come into play than we realize.

[Skittles]

178. they don't

people want 'em for the same reason they want big-ass vehicles - THEY FEEL ENTITLED

[depakid]

185. Might as well ask why yeasts in petri dishes won't stop growing...

until they do.

[Vinca]

188. Given the choice, I'd rather have an Earth Ship. nt

[Snarkturian Clone]

191. My 195 year old 700 sq ft. house is awesome!!!!

For the same price I could have purchased a McMansion in the suburbs.. but who wants to live there? I'd rather have a small house in Center City Philadelphia than a humongous house in Cherry Hill, NJ.

[LWolf]

197. I used to live in a little 800 square foot cottage.

I loved it, but then, I lived alone. Now that I have extended family sharing my home, we've moved into something bigger; 1800 square feet.

Looking down the road at housing costs, I can see a day when I'll need room for more extended family, as well. A bigger house would come in handy then.

[NewJeffCT]

207. I prefer newer homes, but ours is not huge.

But, what I like about a new, or newer, home are things like a new and more efficient furnace, a new and more efficient hot water heater, new windows and insulation, newer and more efficient appliances, modern electrical wiring, etc.

A good roof these days is expected to last 30+ years. Back when I bought my original house, which is now 45 years old, a roof lasted 20 years, tops, before needing replacement.

I think there is plenty of old housing that was crap as well - it's just that if it was crap when it was built in the 1920s, 30s or 40s, it's probably been torn down & replaced by now.

[Brigid]

209. I live in an older neighborhood.

It's pretty nice, but most of the homes are modest ranch-style of 1950s vintage with 2-3 bedrooms, 1 or maybe 1 1/2 baths, and a one-car garage. I can just imagine the people of the era living in them and considering themselves well off. Not too far away, some builder is putting up about half a dozen gigantic McMansions. I have no idea whom this builder think's he going to sell them to.

[HughBeaumont]

213. That's another thing -

I look at these Golgothian things and I always wonder . . . "What the hell do these people DO to MAKE this sort of cash? I find it incredibly hard to believe that there are THAT many people out there doing 10 to 15 times better than me income-wise that they can afford to live in these homes. Are there that many doctors or lawyers out there? Did these people EVER have ANY problems, bad breaks, sudden illnesses, financial setbacks, etc, etc, etc in life? How were they able to save? Did they live as paupers for 25 years?"

I'm living paycheck to paycheck NOW and there's no realistic way on earth I'd even be able to afford the down payment on one of those things within 10 years time, let alone a monthly mortgage.

[RadiationTherapy]

218. I think the same damn thing sometimes.

[librechik]

215. If only rich men's penises weren't so small...n/t

[Codeine]

226. Yeah, 'cause God knows the women in the family

never have anything to do with that decision. :eyes:

[librechik]

235. they want people to think their men have enough cash to make up for small penises too

just like all their girlfriends. Their entitled to something, since they don't get a large penis out of the marriage. A mudroom and a couple of extra baths, at least.

(I have a small house. Very small. None of my girlfriends envy my house.)

Actually, real McMansions are all about sheltering money from taxes. They are so big becasue the more money you can invest in the primary home, the more money you can shelter from the tax man. I was just joking about penises, although for some men their income and their penises are roughly equivalent.

It's a terrible miscarriage and distortion of what is supposed to be a tax law that helps families into a law that once again helps people with too much money hide it from the IRS.

[K8-EEE]

222. We resisted the "big, bigger, biggest" house thing THANK GOD!

We have so many friends stuck in the mortgage crisis right now. We have four in a two bedroom house -- but I'm more concerned with not stressing over the mortgage and property taxes than having more space!

Not only that but the McMansions trended 30 miles away from work, so mortgage headache on top of $3.76 a gallon gas.....

I know it sounds paranoid but I think this whole trend was engineered by the BushCo "ownership society" thing in order for THEM to own US! When you owe more money on your house than it's worth, the bank in essence owns your ass....

[K8-EEE]

223. I think McMansions are so ugly and a nightmare to heat, cool, clean...

My one friend has this "wall of windows" type scenario, like a Cathedral?? All these flat fixed windows sort of soaring to nowhere, in the summer it's hot as hell unless they BLAST the a/c 24 hours and you can clean the damn things without a crew that has 2 story ladders & equipment and stuff....plus IMO it's ugly!

[NNN0LHI]

224. 1500, yep thats fifteen hundred square feet here and I feel like I do live in a mansion

All on one floor. Three bedrooms and two baths. I wouldn't want to have to heat, cool and clean any more than I got. I would be out of my mind if I did. I don't feel crammed either.

Here is one of my neighbors who has been trying to sell this big beautiful white elephant for several years now. And I am serious when I say that I do think it is beautiful. But I wouldn't want to heat, cool, clean or good God have to pay for the taxes or the upkeep on this place.

http://homes.point2.com/US/Illinois/Kankakee-County/Grant-Park/890157-Real-Estate.aspx

Don

[HughBeaumont]

241. I bought a 4 bedroom older home (built in 1951) for 108k.

Even with the upgrades I did and still have to do, I now consider it a bargain compared to, like you said, owing more money on a waste factory house than it's actual worth. It's smaller, but it's really all I need, and my electric and gas bills aren't in the $4-500 range like those huge things. How many stories have I read of people buying these things because they thought they could flip them for more money, thanks to a broker telling them it's a "can't miss"? And then when they're financially screwn, they wonder what happened.

Feels good to know we made the right choice. That doesn't happen too often in this day and age. :toast:

[ItNerd4life]

231. I've never been in this room...

that's what my brother said as we were touring his 7000 sq. ft. house. My spouse and I both got sick to our stomachs.

[cynatnite]

232. So is Al Gore stupid?

As I understand it he has quite a mansion in Nashville.

I don't fault anyone for wanting the home of their dreams. Hell, I would, too, if it was affordable. With enough money a person can have as big of a house as they'd like and it be energy efficient.

A lot of folks have extended families that live with them, do a lot of entertaining and have valid reasons for owning large homes like these. It's easy to sit back and pass judgment on someone without walking in their shoes, isn't it?

These litmus tests some folks have are what's stupid.

[HughBeaumont]

239. People pass judgement most of the time they're awake.

And if they say "Not me, NEVER!" . . . well, you're lying and you're boring. You may not know it, but you're doing it yourself right now.

This sort of environmental and economic irresponsibility will soon be (if not already) ALL of our problems and several posts on this thread have already said why. The problem is that most of the pre-assembled, cookie cutter castles these people CHOOSE to buy rather than plan what they really need accordingly out of a house AREN'T energy efficient and wasteful beyond measure. They add to existing economic and ecological problems, place unneeded strain on electric grids, suck up gas by the metric ton and displace forest land. What part of this would be considered "passing judgement"? Like it was mentioned, people make stupid and selfish choices, it's my constitutional right to bitch about it.

And if Al Gore's home doesn't follow his want of a greener earth, then hey, maybe he should scale down. Or not. Al Gore isn't perfect, and I don't expect him to be. I'm willing to bet, however, that his accomplishments (An Inconvenient Truth, political success) outweigh his mistakes (defense of free trade, NAFTA, picking Lieberman as his VP). That doesn't mean he's beyond reproach. None of us are.

[cynatnite]

243. Sure, we have the right to bitch about the choices people make...

but neither do we have the right to tell people how to live their lives.

[fascisthunter]

250. Because People with Lots of Money Who Need to Flaunt It

have big heads. It's an appendage to their over-inflated egos. Same reason a thug wears so much bling bling... making up for all other inadequecies in life by filling a rather large void. Even that is too simple... many many reasons.

[Maggie_May]

252. My house was not that large like 6000sq foot

I did own a home that was 1900 and unfinished basement I am glad I sold it very glad. I moved into a 1300sq foot home with a basement and love it. Yes less room but less to heat less to air condition and less to clean. I would never buy a big home again and for me that was big. I grew up in a 1200sp foot with a finished basement when I was a kid there was 7 of us all together. I will discount one because he was in the Navy. I tell you I don't know how we did it but we did and we were happy with what we had. People now and days are never happy for what they have they always need more bigger home that better car or boat. I not saying those things aren't nice but they sure and hell aren't worth putting yourself in debt. Don't let the creditors own your ass get by with what you can afford not what you want and can't have. I have learn that lesson the hard way and will never ever do it again.

[Deja Q]

255. Pity more ramblers, et al, aren't to be found.

I wouldn't buy a mcmansion at all.

[B Calm]

257. Houses are like boats. You always see a better one, and you are never happy!

[tsuki]

258. HGTV. nt

[MiniMe]

259. Its a business, builders build what people will buy

Unfortunately, Mcmansions are what is selling. When people start buying smaller houses, then builders will build smaller houses. Its unfortunate, but why should they build something if people aren't going to buy it?

[Tejas]

260. Bigger house = less grass to mow? n/t