Would You Let Your 18 Year Old Daughter Travel Alone with a Friend in Europe?

[Emit]

My daughter received a graduation gift from her grandparents - they are taking her and a friend to Europe (Great Britain and France, mostly).

There will be times when the grandparents are off doing their own things, and the two girls will be on their own, max maybe two, three full days. It is uncertain at this time, but they might have to catch their own flight home, without grandparents - we're still working out those details.

Two people have told me, "Don't see the movie, 'Taken'!"

One close family member said, "No, ABSOLUTELY, they can't be alone at all."

I have a big dilemma here. My daughter has wanted to travel for some time, and this is a special opportunity. But I can see the concern of this one family member, and others, who feel it is just too dangerous for young folks now to be alone traveling abroad.

It doesn't help matters at all that this same family member and I traveled to Europe when we I was in my mid 20's and she in her 30's. We were attacked (attempted robbery) in Barcelona when a few Moroccan kids tried to steal my pack. We were pulled into a dark alley way, got beaten up a bit, but were more emotionally scared than physically harmed. (Actually scared the shit out of me, quite frankly.) I don't want that to prejudice my concerns about my own child traveling abroad, though.

Any input?

edit clarity

[Idealism]

1. Does she know karate?

Just kidding.

[Emit]

4. Actually, she does but has not been in training for a while.

[Idealism]

37. There is no age measurement of responsibility

It is ultimately up to her elders to decide if she is mature enough and has very well defined right and wrong mechanisms.

[norepubsin08]

78. She's 18 by law she can do what she wants!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. My parents let me do it.

But that was waaaay back in about 1970 (and I was 19).

[aquart]

6. Yah. That was then.

Were European countries erupting in riots when you went?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

44. The IRA was blowing stuff up in Northern Ireland.

We were going to go there, but decided against it.

[kwassa]

56. yeah, I got searched by British cops in Victoria Station in 1973

a week after the IRA blew up a bomb there.

The police were very polite, and their concern was understandable.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

103. I want to go to Ireland again so bad

But I will never go to Northern Ireland, unless the UK gives it back to the Republic.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

134. That would be a bit difficult

You would have to understand why Northern Ireland was created. De Valera got a lot of flack for giving up NI, but politically if Ireland was "whole" at the time De Valera and Fianna Fail would have had no chance of winning the elections with a majority Protestant population. De Valera was very shrewd and I really understand now why NI was created at the time.

Northern Ireland is very beautiful (Giants Causeway etc) and I think during our lifetime it'll be returned to Ireland. My mother, a Catholic, doesn't believe it will happen and my father, a Protestant, thinks it will. I recommend you go to Derry, Holywood, Bangor and especially Belfast.

If you go closer to the border in Northern Ireland the signs turn Gaelic-English so I think it's getting there. Sinn Fein and DUP have reached an agreement to share power because Sinn Fein is getting close to having a majority.

I do not like DUP but I think their attitudes towards Catholics are changing (although I can't say the same about Paisley, whose lifetime work was geared towards belittling Catholics).

[HamdenRice]

151. My Irish friends say the issue is moot. They'll all soon be part of "Europe"

It's kind of interesting how different the perspective is from Irish from Ireland compared to Irish Americans and Northern Ireland Catholics.

I don't want to speak for anyone, but the overall impression I get from Irish from Ireland is that the issue is moot. They now see NI as an albatross they don't really want and it's really just a symbolic issue. Moreover, soon European integration will be complete so it will make no difference with Ireland, Britain and northern Ireland being basically part of the same supra country, Europe.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

206. That wasn't the impression I got from the Irish when I was there

[BamaGirl]

220. My husband would disagree with you lol ;)

He (and his brother and sister) would definitely agree that NI is an albatross, but they will never ever look at any kind of integration with Britain as a good thing lol! They're from Cavan and all 3 of them have been in the states a long time so this may not be an attitude shared by people still living in Ireland, but it's not something any of them would ever quietly accept. My husband has talked about this idea a bit, that Europe will become some kind of big single country. He doesn't believe it will happen. Too many people want to hang on to their individual cultures. Who knows? *shrug* Will be interesting to see how the world looks in 20 years. :)

[steaa]

162. Just a bit petty that!

You'd barely know if you crossed into NI.

[bettyellen]

194. but living there still totally sucks if you're cathoilic

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

205. Well, they don't count

:sarcasm:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

203. Sorry, but I'm not giving Northern Ireland any money unless it's returned to it's rightful owners

[WildEyedLiberal]

195. Going there made me even more of a nationalist

Knowing about the imperialism in NI is one thing; seeing the hard evidence of it in Belfast and Derry (I refuse to use the imperial British name for that town) really radicalized me.

32 counties, one Ireland. Absolutely.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

204. I'm already pretty hardcore about that

I'm relatively obsessed with Irish history.

I'm sure most people don't know what my "Tiocfaidh ár Lá" bumpersticker means.

[anigbrowl]

50. You have a really distorted idea of the news

That's like a European parent saying 'Don't go to Minnesota, you'll get teargassed'.

[otherlander]

77. ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falls_Curfew
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatti_di_Reggio
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_1970_protests

[aquart]

3. Now? NO!

[Emit]

9. Why? I need to know what to do with these kids when grandparents aren't around

Set the ground rules, you know.

Wonder if they have babysitters for 18 yo's in Europe? :shrug:

[sandnsea]

5. You live someplace without crime?

:shrug:

Europe is safer than the US.

[Lost in CT]

57. Not really.... The us has areas with more serious crime... but most Americans

can figure them out... European no go areas tend to be nicer looking and I would guess personal petty crime there (such as mugging) is higher than the states.

[DeepBlueC]

70. About the crime...I don't really think so

No-go areas in Europe are not really on the tourist track, even the young adventure-seeking tourist track. Does she have a healthy suspicion of strangers' intentions? A well-developed sense of self preservation is probably sufficient.

In certain parts of Europe sexual harassment is still an accepted male prerogative on the other hand.

[marmar]

74. And even the "Red Light" districts in places like Amsterdam, Hamburg and Paris are quite safe.....

...... if sleazy.

[ProudDad]

122. Actually I consider upscale malls

Like this obscenity in my town:

http://www.laencantadashoppingcenter.com/

<Shudder!>

MUCH more sleazy than the red light district in Amsterdam...

[Lost in CT]

81. Well I was thinking more of southern europe such as Rome or Barcelona...

Most Americans have never had contact with the Gypsies and drug addicts that populate the parks and train stations down there.

Thats what I would most warn her about.

Other than that if she is reasonably level headed she should be fine.

[sandnsea]

83. I live in rural America

and have contact with drug addicts and street people on a daily basis. In a town of 8,000. Where do you live?

[Lost in CT]

89. A place where admittedly there are no street people...

That said the Gypsies and pickpockets of Europe are a breed apart...

It just makes sense to be careful.

[sandnsea]

98. Interesting, never been to such a place

Eugene, Portland, Florence, Merced, Missoula, Butte, Reno, Biloxi, Little Rock - every place I've ever lived or spent much time in, had drug addicts and street people. We found needles when we cleaned up a park for a Girl Scount project, in a town of 2,000 in Montana. You should thank your police chief or your public schools for doing such an outstanding job.

[Lost in CT]

102. Southern Fairfield County CT is a whole other place I admit...

I'm sure there are plenty of addicts indoors... and the homeless are a few exits down the highway... but this town honestly has neither.

[wickerwoman]

207. You could probably just have a chat with her about how to handle money

and she'd be fine.

You'd seriously expect her to give up the whole trip because of the slim chance that she might be pickpocketed by gypsies?

I didn't have any problems as a single traveler in Italy except for men grabbing my ass on the subway but that's hardly fatal.

I've caught three or four pickpockets in the act too and they just back off as soon as they're caught.

And the gypsies in Europe are hardly subtle and pretty easy to avoid. Anyone from an even medium-sized city in the US should have more than enough street smarts to stay out of trouble. If she's planned ahead sufficiently it shouldn't even be a big deal if her pockets get picked.

I traveled all over Europe alone when I was 20 and never had any problems at all. I wouldn't even hesitate if she's going with a friend.

[marmar]

85. I don't think that's exclusive to southern Europe....

.... the drug addicts were far more prevalent near the train stations in Frankfurt, Hamburg, Brussels and Copenhagen than Rome or Barcelona.

[Lost in CT]

90. I havn't been to Geermany in twenty plus years... so I couldn't comment.

But I found England And Ireland not as bad as Paris or Rome.

[GoneOffShore]

128. More than a little reversed now.

Paris is one of the most civilized cities I've travelled to.

Rome is far and away better than Florence - 4 pick pocketing attempts in the 10 hours we spent there (not to say I wouldn't go back - but I'd carry set mousetraps in my pockets).

Lived in England for 10 years from 1971 to '81 - London, Nottingham, Tunbridge Wells. There was always an underlying tension that could erupt into violence in every town I lived in. Despite the pastoral appearance, England, from my perspective, has far more nasty street crime than lots of other places in Europe. There is this "aggro" mentality that you find in many parts of the UK - very strange.

[marmar]

7. FIrst off, I think it's fine as long as she's savvy.......

.... But secondly, is it significant that the kids who attacked you in Barcelona were Moroccan? Did their ethnic background influence the attack or something?

[babylonsister]

8. Let her go! What an opportunity! The big question is, do you trust her?

Does she have common sense?

FWIW, Europeans, Aussies, so many young people travel, and that colors their perceptions in a good way.

If she doesn't go, can I?

[FrenchieCat]

10. I did. My daughter was given a trip to Europe to visit 4 countries

upon graduating from High School. She and 4 of her girlfriends went to Rome, Greece, Spain and Paris and were gone for 3 weeks. There were no adults present, except for in Greece, because that is where one of the girl's sister lived....but the sister wasn't that much older than the traveling crew. My parents bought her ticket. They also took the train, and a boat for some leg of the trip.

I will state that my daughter had already been to Europe twice prior to graduation, and all of the girls spoke English and fluent French.

[Emit]

14. How long ago was that?

btw, my daughter just had an interview with an Alumni from Harvard - wnet really well and we're keeping fingers crossed! Congrats to your daughter on that.

[FrenchieCat]

26. That was in 2005, the year of her graduation.

An interview with an alum is a good sign.

Same daughter was just accepted into U. of Washington at St. Louis Masters/PHD 5 year program (just this week). She won a grant, and they are paying for everything!

[Emit]

30. omg! Wonderful!!

Mine applies to every scholarship she can. She also had an interview with Brown.

[FrenchieCat]

36. Hope your daughter chooses Harvard if offered! It'sTop of the line!

My daughter was also accepted to Princeton at the time, but when we compared the towns, Cambridge won out due to being surrounded by so many other colleges (MIT, Boston U, Tufts, etc...)--Princeton is just one school, and once you leave Princeton, the world changes dramatically, till it's not even funny.

Far as U of Wash at St. Louis, she is totally syked.
She doesn't even have to work! I'm sooo happy!

[DeepBlueC]

75. Cambridge in particular, Boston in general is heaven for college students

Of course my impressions may be way out of date, but the same schools are still all there and Boston more than many other cities values the business of students.

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

11. There tends to be a lot of hysteria

based on isolated bad events that are blown up by the media. But the chance of anything bad happening are really really low. On the other hand, it would be better if they were more closely supervised.

[GreenPartyVoter]

12. It's scary but she's old enough to be going to college so maybe it would be ok?

[Demobrat]

13. She could be pulled into an alley and robbed

two blocks from home. And 18 is certainly old enough to make a connection in an airport. Let her go. If she's with her grandparents it's not like she'll be staying in $2/night dumps next to the bus station.

[annabanana]

15. oh for heavens sake yes.... It sounds like the perfect adventure...

Two or three days max without the grandparents? Why the hell not.

Kids go off to College for weeks with minimal adult supervision at 18 with only the expected kerfuffles. I wish I had the wherewithal to send MINE to Europe.

It will be a wonderful, broadening experience... She will come back with marvellous memories that she will cherish for the rest of her life.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

16. See the movie, 'Taken'! nt

[annabanana]

20. I saw it... It was a stupid "24" style hyperfest... ridiculous... n/t

[marmar]

46. Agreed. If it makes more than $15 at the box office it would be a crime.....

n/t

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

146. The movie Was fiction but sex trafficking in Europe isn't. She has to be Aware.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

156. I thought Taken was great. The International really stunk.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

167. I normally don't like movies like Taken, but they developed Liam Neeson's character

beautifully. His acting was superb. I think his taking everyone down by himself very far fetched but I really enjoyed it.

Even though this is a fictional account, human sex trafficking is very real and young women have to be very mindful of their surroundings and leery of the people they meet.

There are some people who believe Natalie Holloway was kidnapped into the sex trade. Maybe she was.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

171. I always tell my daughter, never get into a car with a stranger, or walk away alone with him...

...EVEN IF HE'S CUTE!!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

175. I understand entirely. .

Even with my sons...as they were growing up I would give them similar advice.

[wickerwoman]

209. That's completely ridiculous...

Human sex trafficking rings don't kidnap girls off the street who would obviously have someone looking for them... not with the absolute tsunami of dirt poor Eastern European girls who immigrate illegally for bogus jobs and get pressured into prostitution so they don't get turned over to immigration. Much easier to control and no one coming looking for them.

[Posteritatis]

193. Yes, use pop culture works of fiction to determine life choices; that's what smart people do

You probably shouldn't go to the United Kingdom in particular. I hear Children of Men was set there. And I won't even get into New York...

[Bluebear]

17. Personally, no I would not... 18 is age 10 with 8 years' experience.

I would see if there are formal tours available when the grandparents are off doing their thing or hiring a chaperone/guide.

[Gman]

22. Good way to put it.

[ddeclue]

For some people 40 is age 10 with 30 years experience...

stupidity knows no age my friend.

[Gman]

210. I like to consider myself in that category

my wife says I never grew up anyway. Toys just got bigger and more expensive.

[AZ Criminal JD]

92. We now know how you were at 18

But you don't speak for the average 18 year old.

[Name removed]

110. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[upi402]

18. yep, asia too n/t

[Gman]

19. I wouldn't allow it because

there's lots of evidence now about kids aren't able to really recognize danger until around age 23 or so. These young ladies may be physically grown, but mentally they are children still. Alice Cooper described the dilemma of being 18 when he sang, "I'm a boy and I'm a man..."

I wouldn't allow them at 18. 23 or 25, no problem and you probably wouldn't have a lot to say about it anyway. But they would have a much better head on their shoulders then anyway.

[anigbrowl]

21. Sure.

18's old enough to look after oneself. My sole advice would be 'use a condom'.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

23. She's your kid .............

You know her better than anyone.

So, it's a matter of: Do you trust your daughter to be able to do this?

My girls did it, and so did I. For myself, I'd be a lot more comfortable having my kid on her own, with a friend and grandparents within reasonable reach, in Europe than I would in most US cities.

But, it's your call.

Would the grandparents have given this gift if they thought the girl wasn't ready? Did they talk with you about it before presenting it?

[Emit]

41. Yes, we talked before they offered. But, I didn't realize that they would have

times where they would be separated, with the girls going their separate ways from the adults. My first reaction when I heard the itinerary was, well, she and I are gonna need to talk about safety while traveling. But I wasn't opposed at all to the itinerary.

She's smart and savvy. She's ready, imo. But, all kids are gullible to a degree.

I honestly was not too concerned until others started voicing their own concerns and now, well, maybe I'm just getting played by their fears - all kinds of things run through your mind when your kid does these 'rites of passage' things, I guess.

[blaze]

80. EMIT!!!! Listen to your gut!!!!

You said she's smart, savvy and she's ready! You already know your kid!

Please don't let the fears of others deny your daughter this opportunity.

If we all start living our lives based on fear, then we all lose.

[DeepBlueC]

86. you just need a few firm rules for when they are apart

In the age of cell phones fortunately your kids need never be out of reach, so that ought to give you some assurance. All kids are gullible to a degree but most kids also have the mental limit of knowing to stop before it's likely you'll get caught for something. When I think back it was that internal limit that kept me and my friends safe even though we "good kids" were as eager to see what was happening beyond the boundaries we knew as any of the "bad kids". I think the only difference between us was our sense of rational self-preservation.If you spend your high school years looking good for college acceptance it is kind of a course in exactly that.

And don't get any advice about customs and immigration from other kids, for god's sake. I was just lucky I coincidentally didn't rely on some of what I "learned" from traveling hippies when I was a kid in Europe.

So have the talk about safety, establish a FEW firm ground rules, set lines of communication and keep them open and I think she'll be okay. There is a lot more trouble to be got into in Fort Lauderdale on Spring Break, or Spring Break anywhere. If any casual acquaintance makes her an offer that is too generous, decline politely. That's always a good rule of thumb.

Are they all on their own when they are separated or will they have places to stay?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

109. Isn't it funny

how people - and they're ostensibly well-meaning - will react to a wonderful gift for your girl with such a negative take? Instead of being happy for her and the absolutely joy of a trip to Europe as a graduation gift, they start right in on what to fear, what could go wrong, all the bad stuff.

I am sure they have the girl's best interests at heart, but I am always just so put off by those folks. Do they not think that, perhaps, you've had such thoughts and have discussed them with your daughter?

Go positive. Sounds like you've got a great daughter who's gonna have - I hope they go - a trip that will make her some memories for the rest of her life.

Trust yourself, trust your kid, and pay no attention to the nay-sayers. There's so much bad out there, who needs more negative crap?

It's such an exciting time, that senior year of high school................................

[RiverStone]

187. It's can be really tough, but sooner or later --- she will go.

Going through the same thing with my 19 year ol daughter. Hard for me to object, since I did the backpack through Europe thing when I was young. In my 20's, solo trekked through the Himalaya.

We worry now as parents and I say --- but your a woman! Your more vulnerable!!! But in reality, I met many solo women travelers in the day and ultimately, we have to let our kiddos become adults.

She basically is old enough to do it with or without your permission anyway. And if you say no, she will do it in the near future (a guess). It least it will be semi-supervised.

Let her go and let her experience this wonderful adventure.

[ZombieHorde]

24. Of course I would. nt

[MadMaddie]

25. Can someone chaparone them for those days?

I bet you could hire someone. Someone that could take them to all of the interesting local places but knows the safe areas etc.

[Emit]

33. That's what I was thinking - like a walking tour or something and then

set some ground rules for evenings and nights. I also know that the hotel management might be able to assist in some manner, depending on where they stay. When we were attacked, the hotel bent over backwards to help us and make us feel safe.

[robinlynne]

39. a chaperone for an 18 year old? I was married at that age.

seriously. I think, as a parent, you need to teach your daughter well. What is dangerous. What is not.
18 is really a young adult. Tell her the story about what happened to you and how and why those things can happen. Help the two of them make safety plans. Perhaps an email once a day telling you they are ok? morning email to you, evening email to the other girls' parents? so everyone hears from them every day, adn the two moms can call each other....

[Emit]

Tx, robinlynne. Good ideas.

When we were attacked in Barcelona, if something worse had happened... - my parents would not have found out for likely 3 weeks or more - that was back in the day before email and all.

[robinlynne]

68. But if they understand not to follow strangers into nightclubs, dark alleys, all the "don'ts,

and they agree together and with parents on how to act, what time is too late to go out, how to hold your purse and put the strap across your chest to not attract pick pockets, how to walk with a purpose at night.... then they will be safe.

[Lyric]

27. She's 18. How can you "let" her do anything?

Isn't that the age where she gets to make those decisions without permission anymore?

:shrug:

[Emit]

34. lol, so she says.

;)

[marshall]

224. One can control the purse strings

She can do what she wants, but a parent who is bankrolling college does have some say-so over what they do, in my opinion.

[Lyric]

226. Not all parents bankroll college, and in this instance, the grandparents

are the ones funding the trip.

I know that if *I* were a teen whose parents threatened to withdraw college funding unless I lived my adult life according to their specifications, I'd just not go to college until I was 25 and able to get grants and loans for myself, without their income counting against me.

But then again, I have never been able to tolerate people ordering me around or trying to dictate my life to me.

[eyesroll]

28. She's 18. You don't have to "let" her do anything for her to do it.

She's old enough to get a passport, book the flight, and backpack all around the world without your permission.

:shrug:

[noamnety]

29. My daughter spent a semester in Rome

She's a little crazy, she didn't want to live in the dorms and didn't want to rent a place without seeing it first. So she flew over there alone, not knowing anyone, and without housing lined up, except a couple nights in a hostel til she found an apartment. She had her laptop stolen, she flipped out and went tearing after the guy - alone, chasing him through the streets of Rome at 11 at night.

I think they should have a self-defense course for women before they go.

But I also think teenage girls should have that before they start dating, and definitely before they go to college. I don't know that spending a couple days in Europe is any more dangerous than spending time on a college campus for girls. Sometimes we just have irrational fears based on distance rather than real risk of danger.

[TXDemGal]

31. Am I missing something here?

Presumably your daughter is nearly old enough to be going off to college somewhere, if that's in her plans, and living away from you. I would think if you trust her and she has exhibited good common sense in the past, then yes it would be okay to allow her to take this fabulous trip with her friend and grandparents. Do you know what cities/countries she would be without the grandparents in? That may make a difference in your decision.

Before she went, I would definitely have her read a book or websites about women traveling alone, not acting like the "ugly American," not dressing conspicuously with expensive jewelry, etc.

Let us know what you decide!:hi:

[Generator]

32. Great Britain and France seriously?

Safe as houses. TEN HUNDRED thousand times safer than most of America. Not many guns. TRAINS instead of CARS. Yeah, I don't suppose the have any need to tour the poor housing estates-of course not-they will be going as TOURISTS visiting tourist sites. Of course I hate the fear mindset of most Americans. I moved to NYC from suburban Portland Oregon on my own when I was 18. So I guess I don't have much sympathy.I have no grandparents to take of me (never did) and neither do my children. Makes the genes hardier when you have to survive on your own, I guess. Your kids are damn lucky. It would be a great learning experience. Probably you know safer than letting them DRIVE this weekend. Just heard the statistic that all teen deaths are 41% due to teen driving.

PS Isn't that movie Taken some horror fest along the lines of 24-the dude is in the CIA! That's not reality. Americans have no reality check, clearly. America is much less safe than Western Europe.

[ddeclue]

35. Friend or boyfriend?

As someone who has lived and traveled in a lot of places including living about 8 years in Europe:

In my experience Europe is plenty safe - at least Western Europe. America is far worse because of the prevalance of guns and gun crimes. Not so in Europe or Japan or Korea.

* If you are worried about travel I'd stay out of the Middle East, Israel, India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Mexico, Venezuela, Columbia, and Russia.

* I'd also read the travel warnings posted by State and DHS.

* I'd check with the tourist guide printers like Lonely Planet.

* I'd read up on my destination at the CIA's Factbook.

* I'd read up on my destination using Google and Wiki.

If you aren't used to traveling overseas:

1) Keep a low profile.
2) Don't carry a lot of cash.
3) Learn the language(s) and local customs and geography, history, politics, etc. as best you can before leaving.
4) Treat everybody graciously, politely and with humility. Don't be the typical ugly American everyone is expecting - this is very disarming and will help you tremendously.
4) Use a tour agency and go on organized tours, don't free-lance it.

I'd be more worried that she was taking a boyfriend if I were you than about the trip itself.

Remember you are your country's best (or worst) Ambassador - what you do overseas reflects more on what your hosts will think of America and Americans for decades to come than what they read about or see in the news or what their government tells them or what OUR government tells them.

Be the good American when you travel, not the ugly one!

:patriot:

[Emit]

52. Great tips and thanks for the feedback.

She and I have already started talking about many of these things, but your list is concise and gives me more to think about and discuss with her and her girlfriend.

[Xithras]

38. Lol...helicopter parent.

She's 18. She's an adult. She could run off to Vegas and get married tomorrow, she can join the Army, she can move across the country without your permission, or she could apply for citizenship in France...you no longer get a say in the matter. If you raised her right, and she's a good person, she'll be fine.

The problem with most 18 year old "kids" today is that parents today don't want to back off and let them take responsibility for themselves.

And I challenge you to name one thing that could happen to her in Europe that couldn't also happen if she jumped in her car and drove to New York for a few days. The world is a dangerous place, and your time to protect her is up. She needs to find her place in it, and that means you need to let her have her own experiences. Europe is a great way to start that life off.

[MrSlayer]

40. Me? No.

Nope. 18 is too young to be on your own in foreign countries. Hell, it's too young to go off on your own in this country. I would try to weasel my way into going on the trip.

[Maru Kitteh]

42. 18? No. Too young. She or he would not have my blessing.

[Toucano]

125. And you're the Pope

"...my blessing."

For chrissake!

Your first issue is complimentary.

[saltpoint]

43. It's a great present. Let her go. Definitely. One of your duties is safety,

yes, but another is adventure.

Order a pizza. Sit the 2 down for a respectful discussion about safety and then tell them you hope it is the time of their lives.

[kitty1]

45. My Son and his girlfriend are off to Europe in May for 35 days...

He will have just turned 20 and she will be 19 when they go.
My son has a good head on him though and is very aware of potential perils that are out there. His girlfriend is the same way.
I know even at that, things can happen but I feel at that age they need to get out and explore the world. See what they've only read about and watched on video. See the art, the beauty and the culture up close. It's a fantastic life experience and I wish I had done the same thing. I envy him a little. My gut tells me they will be all right. They just have to be really vigilant. Especially at nite.
I guess it's a little different with 2 girls going as thieves see them as vulnerable targets.
I think at age 18, it depends on the individual's maturity. Some 18 year olds are very wise and together, while others are extremely immature and shouldn't be allowed to go alone to the next city, never mind Europe.

[Texasgal]

47. At 18 I went away by myself and three others

for an eight week European adventure!

It was 1988, but still...

If you trust her, I see no issue here.

[norepubsin08]

84. What a fantastic experience to have!

I think it's great..she's 18, she finished high school...yes have her go...in fact, I think it is a good thing that they and the grandparents get a bit of time apart..however, I would insist that she or her friend NEVER leave the hotel with out the other and that she and her friend check into home frequently (once a day maybe) then send her with your love and blessings!

[DemoTex]

48. My neice was gut-shot in Paris on her post-grad trip (from Auburn).

She survived only because of the MD in the ambulance. She was in ICU for days (two surgeries), and in the hospital in Paris for over two months. My brother and I were in Italy at the time. He is a radiologist. He went to Paris until she was released from the ICU. He was VERY impressed by the French medical system. The bill? $7000. Her student insurance from Auburn paid that. That was 1998.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

104. Yeah, but that could easily happen in the US, so that's not a good reason to say no

[DemoTex]

198. Much more likely to happen here .. I agree.

But we never considered that it could happen there. A random shooting is very low on the list of dangers in most European cities.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

208. I went to Italy with my college honors group and one of the guys got held up at gunpoint

The idiot followed some gypsies into an alleyway, when they said they wanted to show him something.

It's definitely not as common though, and as I said, he was being a total idiot.

[DemoTex]

211. I was held up at gunpoint in London in 1992.

Near Joe Allen's American Restaurant. He took my money and gave me my wallet back with my credit cards and a little cash remaining. He apologized and left. I went into Joe Allen's and they called the cops. It was a recurring thing in that area that fall. He had on a tweed jacket, and it might have been (the cops agreed) a fake gun.

[blaze]

49. Depends on your daughter, really

My first response was, "Oh, hell yes!!!" This is the opportunity of a lifetime!!

But then I have met some incredibly immature and naive 18 year olds.... and some very mature and street smart 18 year olds.

Unless she falls on the extremely immature/naive end of the scale, I'll stick with my HELL YES!!!

And the fact that the Grandparents will be nearby only reinforces my gut response.

The older I get, the more I know that "waiting for (insert logical reason here)" often leads to unrealized dreams.

[glowing]

51. Your daughter could be held up while stopping in for gas. Kidnapped while

walking down the street... As long as she is mature, uses her head, and learns about the countries she's visiting, she'll be ok.. I went to Spain and Italy... best time of my life.

[rwheeler31]

53. Do you trust the friend?

[Emit]

Yeah, but she's very shy. My daughter is the more worldly one of the two.

They're good kids - but, neither have traveled much. My daughter is also almost fluent in Spanish, and has a knack for languages, so I am getting her one of those travel/language crash course CD's in French. I think she'll be able to pick up on the basics before they leave.

[muriel_volestrangler]

138. Then it sounds OK to me

If the friend was the kind of girl who'd do stupid things, then you'd have to consider if your daughter would be able to hold her back, look out for her, etc. - being effectively in charge of someone isn't always easy. But 'shy' wouldn't be a problem.

The more French she knows, the better, though, if they're going to be on their own in France. To enjoy it more, as well as making it easier. I find most French people appreciate you making an effort to use French, even if it's obvious you're not fluent.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

54. Depends on the kid...

My daughter is 17 and extremely independent. I would probably let her go on a trip like this; she's very mature, very sure of herself, and makes smart decisions most of the time.

But not all kids are the same, and I could imagine lots of 18 year olds not being ready for this.

I'm getting ready to take my daughter on an east coast college tour (Princeton, Yale, Harvard and Brown!), so I am feeling many of the anxieties and fears that you are, I'm sure. And as much as I think she could handle a trip to Europe with a friend, I hope she doesn't ask just yet... :)

[Richard D]

55. For sure

It'll be a great experience.

[ogneopasno]

58. Your daughter can get beat up on the streets of wherever it is you live as much as anywhere. If she

is savvy -- and you're the only one who can decide that -- she'll be fine.

Would you second-guess it if it were two young men?

[sallylou666]

59. Safer than Mexico

Don't let your kids go to Mexico right now. They're warning students to stay away for this spring break.

True that you can't stop an 18 YO hell bent on going, but paying for tuition, room and board give the parent a lot of leverage.

[Emit]

65. I was having a discussion with another parent who is from Mexico. When I told him my daughter was

studying Spanish and was intent on traveling to Spanish-speaking countries at some point in the future, he insisted that she not go to Mexico - "Too dangerous!" He insisted. I was hoping grandparents would work in Spain, but, alas, it was not doable.

[sallylou666]

67. Yes, very dangerous

Yes, drug cartels shooting machine guns in the streets. Kidnappings. Women disappear regularly. Not safe for men either. That's what I'm hearing.

[Emit]

69. Thanks, sallylou666, for your input and welcome to DU

:hi:

[LuckyLib]

235. Huge generalization -- in northern border cities, particularly Tijuana and Juarez,

drug cartels are at war. Stay away from those places. I avoid the beach hangouts because I'm middle aged now and the alcohol culture is boring. But the rest of Mexico. A delight. I travel there regularly, on business and for pleasure, and love it. The people are wonderful.

[readmoreoften]

60. Hell, I travelled to Mexico by myself at that age.

What is "letting" your 18 year old? Isn't your 18 year old of age to make her own decisions?

[sallylou666]

66. Times have changed

I have fond memories of going to Mexico. It's different now because of the drug cartel. El Paso and other border towns aren't safe any more. It's very sad.

[readmoreoften]

73. Agreed. I'm not likely to travel to Mexico any time soon. Perhaps D.F. but still...

It's really normal to leave the country around that age.

[ddeclue]

76. Mexico isn't Western Europe...I wouldn't go to Mexico either and..

I'm a 42 year old 6' 230 lb man who speaks Spanish pretty well for a Gringo and have lived and travelled all over the world and is very comfortable doing it even for business.

Mexico is in a terrible mess right now, maybe one notch shy of all out civil war between the drug cartels and the Federales. I wouldn't go down there without body armor and a machine gun right now.

My brother says he's gonna go down to Puerta Vallarta for vacation this summer but I told him he ought to re-think that and that I didn't want to have to star in my own version of that 80's movie "Let's Get Harry" to go down and save his ass.

That said, Germany, France, Spain, Portugal, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Italy, Austria, Switzerland, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Norway, and Ireland should all be relatively safe places to visit - certainly as safe as any American travel destination would be.


Doug D.
Orlando, FL

[ProudDad]

124. Nope, it's because of the PHONY "war" on drugs.

The cartels would dry up and blow away if drugs were decriminalized in the U.S.

[SoCalDem]

61. Alone with a friend is not "alone".. My son went to college in Italy

and had the TIME OF HIS LIFE... Embrace their trip...:)

My son traveled all over Europe, and loved loved loved it:)

His apartment was here:
He lived on the inner courtyard, first floor..which flooded every time it rined:)

[Myrina]

62. "Alone with a friend" - NO. With a school/ group - YES

n/t

[kwassa]

63. Europe is no more dangerous than most American cities, probably less.

I'd say yes, if your daughter has good sense about people.

[Withywindle]

64. Definitely!

As many people have said, that's old enough to join the Army without your permission. She could go to Iraq or Afghanistan if she wanted to. Many kids her age do.

Be glad it's Europe, which is waaaayyy safer in terms of crime than the US.

[Cronus Protagonist]

71. Yes, of course!

Grow up a little, and let her do the same. A mugging can happen anywhere in the world, and I bet muggings, shootings, rapes and such like happen more frequently within a 100 mile radius of your home than they do in most countries in Europe. This is the more barbarous place to be, not Europe for Christ's sake!

Besides, one needs funny stories to tell later in life, and if one prevents events from occurring, one creates a VERY dull older person.

[walkaway]

72. I spent six months traveling through Europe at 17

My parents took me to the airport and then I was on my own. The best time of my life and the bravest thing they ever did for me.

I never had a bad moment.

It WAS a long time ago but I think if they are mature and careful and forewarned they could have a blast without getting into trouble.

[40ozDonkey]

79. Let her go if she's responsible, just make sure she calls.

Tell her to call, tell her that twice a day for 30 seconds (midday and evening for her, no matter what time that equals here in America) is a small price to pay, and it will help you sleep.

If she's responsible enough to go, she's responsible enough to check in once or twice a day.

If she doesn't call, call her friend.

If you can't get her, call the grandparents.

Give her hell if she fails you.

If you tell her she can't go, she'll resent you and do something even more risky. And she'll remember it forever. Take the lesser pain, you'll forget all your worry when you see the look on her face when she's home.

[Pisces]

82. I traveled throughout Europe in my early 20's, never felt safer.

[Withywindle]

105. So did I.

I didn't mention it because early-20s sounds different than 18 - but at 21 I was there for nearly 2 months and under way less protected conditions (I hitch-hiked, I slept in parks and in some pretty skeezy "hostels" - yes, I'm female), and nothing godawful happened.

Two of the best months of my life to this day, even that time my friend and I were standing in the rain in Larne (northern Ireland), watching the British army guys laughing at us from their trucks, trying to hitch a ride to Dublin. That was a low point. But we got there eventually.

[dana_b]

87. you know your daughter best

is she street smart? Is her friend dependable? things to consider.

I went to Europe for weeks at 18 with a female friend but that was in the mid 80s. My best friend's 17 yo daughter went last year to Spain with a guy friend. The guy was an idiot and managed to get her stuff stolen (long story) but they weren't hurt. BTW, my friend cried with worry everyday they were gone. It may happen to you.

No matter what, you WILL worry.

[OutNow]

88. YES - She will join the thousands of youth from every country

I've spent a lot of time in London and Amsterdam and several other European cities. The one thing you notice in the summer in the city center is the tens of thousands of young people traveling around. They come from every country in Europe. I believe this is the best time to have the experience of traveling and getting to know people from other backgrounds. Before marriage, kids, mortgages, etc.

Get agreement with her on some ground rules, arrange to get her a cell phone so you can contact her, and send her off.

[leftyclimber]

91. Depends on the daughter.

If she's street-smart, willing to take and act on advice from more experienced travelers in your current circle of trust, has traveled previously (not necessarily internationally but preferably so), and knows enough French to ask a strange woman for help if she's uncomfortable (this can be taught), sure.

The one thing I would say from my experience traveling through most of Britain is that she MUST stay away from the dance clubs there. Big cities, small towns, doesn't matter. There are some seriously aggressive guys on that scene and she may think she's equipped to handle them, but it requires a level of toughness many young women her age just don't have. She will have access to alcohol and may not know her limits. Things could get ugly fast, even if she thinks she can handle it.

If she has consistent check-in times for the days she and her friend are on her own and has contacts in case something goes haywire, I'd say it's OK. But it depends on your judgment of her, as a parent. If you think you might be reacting in an overprotective way, find people with lots of international travel experience (especially recently and when young, if possible) and get as much advice as possible, preferably her and them talking face to face. If you don't think she's mature enough to handle unstructured travel, see about hooking her up with a bus tour for a few days (KonTiki is an 18-35 yo tour program that I highly recommend, but I don't know if they have super short Britain tours -- maybe a London one?) so she's in a structured environment with a group of people who will look out for her. If she's just not mature enough, see if the grandparents would be willing to wait a couple of years until she's grown up a little. YMMV.

[Mind_your_head]

216. sure......

:rofl:

[stillcool]

93. I'm really surprised that..

so many people consider 18 to be a child. I guess it's a family/environment thing. 2-3 days without Grandparents is a deal-breaker?

[flyarm]

94. as a long time flight attendant I flew many college age kids to Europe

when they were going for summer backpacking through Europe.

If the kid is responsible , as only a parent would know ..then yes i say it is a wonderful Learning experience.

My husband and I had our son travel Europe for 3 months when he was 19, it was the best experience in his life, and I would say he learned more then than he did in 4 years of college! He learned to budget his money , he stayed in Hostels, and visited so many countries with the Eurorail pass we got him. He climbed the Matterhorn Mountain with a 72 year old man who had a leg missing and walked it with a cane..the pictures he took were incredible, and he said he was in awe of this man.
My best friend and I met my son at the end of his 3 month trip in Paris, and everywhere we went with him, different kids would yell out his name..even in the subway tunnels!!..There were so many kids his age traveling abroad and doing as he was , traveling by backpack and staying in Hostels.

My best freind flies for USAIR and I Flew for American , we would go to Paris at least 10 times a year just shopping and going to Cafe's and just enjoying our favorite place ..together.

Paris is a city for women!! It is safe, as long as you stay in the right areas..the same can be said about NY and LA..

There are gypsies..and pick pockets ..just like our cities..so one must pay attention..best not to carry a passport..while going around town for the day..as that is the most valuable thing you own..when out of the country...they should lock it in the hotel safe. Travlers checks are not very good right now to use..it is best to have an ATM card, but tell your bank they are traveling and where, before they go, and they should have at least one credit card.

You can get $300 euro a day out of atm's.. they should not keep the atm card and the credit card in the same place..like keep one in wallet and one in a side pouch of a purse..they should have an over the shouldre purse..small if possible..so it sits on their tummy. Nothing of value should be in a backpack, on their backs.

You can get a cell phone in the USA that will work in Europe..check with different carriers.

My other best friend and i went last year for 4 weeks to Barcelona,then paris and the south of France.. where her one daughter was doing a semester in the University of Barcelona..her other college age daughter went with us, and her two college buddies ( girls ) came and stayed in a hostel in Barcelona..they took the subways and met us each day..they had a ball!! They then all went with us to Paris..and i showed them where to go on the map and they went everywhere..
The best map is Lafeyette Galleries Map ..avail sometimes on the airlines or at the airport in Paris.

The only place i will say they shoukd be out of the area when it gets dark is near the Moulin Rouge/ Montmarte area..many prostitues there..but not a good area after dark...but fine during the day..in fact wonderful during the day!!

The areas for the most gypsy pick pockets..ave de Champs Elysees and Rue diRivoli..but as long as they know this and you explain it to them..they will be fine..in fact it is safer than most American cities!

They will be fine mom, and it will be a great experience for them..and with the Grandparents close by, they will be fine.

I only hope I can take my soon to be 1st granddaughter to Paris and the South of France some day with me, and share my favorite city in the world with her!! ( she is due in June!!)

I hope they enjoy their trip!!!

Oh a good place for them to walk at night and very very safe but fun..Ile St Louis..right behind Notre Dame..and the best ice cream in the world!!

[riderinthestorm]

95. My 19 year old spent last summer overseas, alone.

She's now graduated with an archaeology degree but last summer she travelled all over Ireland, England and France, alone for 4 months at 3 different dig sites as well as doing the "tourist" thing.

She's been abroad several times before so she's really comfortable travelling over there. Her first adventure overseas "alone" was when she was 15 years old and spent 2 weeks riding in Ireland with a trainer 15 miles south of Dublin. My husband flew over with her and dropped her off. He went horse shopping/backpacking/hiking for those 2 weeks and met up with her when her time was done. She lived in a group dorm but was responsible for her own food, laundry, and schedule for the time she was there.

She leaves in September for grad school in England at the ripe old age of 20.

I will qualify all of the above by saying she's very mature, very confident. If you believe your own daughter is responsible and mature, I say go for it! Sounds like a great situation!

[RFKHumphreyObama]

96. As long as you reinforce proper safety procedures and guidelines they should be OK

Get emergency numbers for the areas where they are in and make sure your daughter and her friend take them down and KEEP them handy. Talk through with them how to deal with things like muggings, accidents etc and what they'd do. Additionally have them check in at least once a day.

Bad things can always happen but that's true anywhere -in your home, on the street or wherever else. For every time something bad happens -like was the case with you and your family member -there are usually hundreds more examples of nothing happening at all. Just make sure they know to take care and know what to do in an emergency

Believe me, I was 22 (not that much older than your daughter) when I went on an extensive four month tour to Great Britain and the United States on my own and with a disability. I managed fine. Just as long as they are being sensible, they should have great fun

[TahitiNut]

97. Some people's daughters enlist and go to Iraq. Is yours raised so poorly she can't cope with Europe?

If she ain't responsible enough now, she'll never be. :shrug:

[LibDemAlways]

99. I wouldn't let my daughter go, but that's just me. I'm

admittedly very over-protective.

If she has a good head on her shoulders and you are ok with it, by all means. You know her better than anyone.

[Eryemil]

100. Northwestern Europe is about the safest spot on Earth

Terrible things can happen anywhere but in terms of statistics she'd be more likely to run into problems in any big American city.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

101. I traveled alone in Europe when I was 19 or 20

I backpacked across Ireland for a week. I didn't run into any problems.

My parents also let me go into NYC by myself when I was like 14-15. I'd take the train into Port Authority.

[alarimer]

106. They're adults for crying out loud.

Europe is as safe as any place in the US. Don't let bullshit right-wing action movies scare you.

[cally]

107. Yes!! I've let my 16 year old spend days alone in Paris

when we went there. Now at 18, she will be traveling to Venice and Florence alone. Next year, she's planning to live a year abroad so she wants to experience travel alone. She's off at college and has gone to SF many times with friends. I don't see large European cities as more dangerous than our large cities. She's learned to be cautious and has heard all the scary stories I hear but in the end, I trust her.

[Fleshdancer]

108. Yes. In fact, I would encourage my daughter to travel overseas at that age.

I think the benefits outweigh all hypothetical risks. It's a wonderful learning opportunity and the odds of her being a victim in Europe is less than most major American cities. The grandparents will be there more often than not and it's an exceptionally generous gift. To be honest, if she's already 18, I'm wondering why this is your decision and not yours.

[Mind_your_head]

111. If they are 'morally grounded' and have a bit of savvy.....I say let 'em go

What a WONDERFUL opportunity!

My 2 cents,
M_Y_H

on edit: just to let you know, one of my kids is "somewhere in Europe" right now on a study abroad program. I am so proud of what an even MORE competent woman she is becoming b/c of her exposure/experiences there. Again, it's a wonderful ~ once in a lifetime opportunity. Go for it!

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

112. The UK and France? Sure. Southern Europe? No.

Provided they are basically responsible, familiar with the ins and outs of big cities in general, and can fend for themselves enough to figure out how to book a hotel it's not really that big of a deal. Southern Europe is a different matter altogether. The big cities there tend to have more people who are prone to scamming tourists.

[fizzgig]

113. let?

she's an adult and the decision should be hers. share your concerns, but let her know that it is her choice and you will respect what ever decision she makes.

i spent a week alone in england and scotland when i was 21 and i never once felt unsafe.

[janx]

114. It depends upon the friend! My daughter worked and lived in Brasil

for a time. It scared me, and she was not traveling with a friend, but she went there in order to support a nonprofit since she had studied Portuguese.

She at some point wound up with some street guy who lived in a hammock.

It was an education for her, to be sure. When she returned, she had acquired a "tramp stamp," a pierced nose, and some kind of skin fungus that evolved from one form to another. (We eradicated the second form of fungus after she came home.)

This was an enormously valuable education for her. I'm so proud of her. She called me from Brasil and spoke to me in Portuguese while she was there. She also became aware of how tough it can be in some foreign countries.

Let 'em go. Keep track of them, but let them take their educational risks. :hug:

[JI7]

115. she is 18 years old, she doesn't need your permission

but it would be nice if you did give her permission. have a talk with her and discuss ways and things she can do to keep as safe as possible.

[tammywammy]

116. Yes, they can stay safe.

I would be hard pressed in not allowing someone go to Europe. I went when I was only 19 with a girl friend.

[Adsos Letter]

120. I went when I was 18...

granted, it was courtesy of the US Army, but I was still free to travel all over Europe, unsupervised, on my off-time.

BTW, OT, but...I enjoy your bunny...but I really do miss the cat in the tangerine helmet... :D

[Hepburn]

117. No, absolutely not.

But then, I just saw the movie Taken.

[tabasco]

137. Do you make life decisons based on movies?

Damn, that's stupid.

[Hepburn]

173. Click....

...:hi:

[Posteritatis]

192. Depressingly common these days, too

And people say social networking sites are dumbing us down instead. Oy.

[Pithlet]

118. Taken is fiction. Let her go.

18 is plenty old enough. And I consider myself an overprotective type parent.

[Adsos Letter]

119. My answer would be yes, and for the following reasons...

1. Your gut tells you she can handle it (and these separations almost ALWAYS are accompanied by normal parental angst)

2. Depending upon how they are raised, most 18 year olds are more savvy about the world than we give them credit for.

BUT MOST IMPORTANT:

3. The grandparents will be with them most of the time. I don't know how it is in your household, but my girls grandparents are savvy enough, and love the girls enough, not to place them into situations where thay might get hurt, even if "unsupervised;" in todays rapid communications world (cell-phones, etc.) I am willing to bet grandma and grandpa are going to allow the girls to experience the adventure of some freedom in a foreign country, without truly letting them out of their virtual sights.

[ProudDad]

121. It's safer in any city in GB and France

than most cities in USAmerica...

I'd advise them to stay in known areas and not to wander too far off the beaten path...

[Toucano]

123. Yes.

What choice do you have? She's 18. That's an adult.

Accept it and take comfort that you raised her well.

Remember that she could be shot to death standing in line at McDonald's in America. Or in her classroom.

The rest of the world is no more dangerous than your own neighbourhood, to be perfectly honest.

[Hippo_Tron]

126. I think a lot of it depends on what city, what country

I did a summer in London and we took a weekend trip to Rome. My Professor made sure to give us a speech to scare the living shit out of the girls and encourage the guys to look after them when going to Rome. But he wasn't particularly concerned about anything happening to us in London.

[NYC Liberal]

127. She doesn't need your permission, so you can either

support her and do your best to make sure she stays safe (or knows how to)...or not. That's really all there is to it.

[donheld]

129. She's 18

She doesn't need your permission. Get past it.

[prayin4rain]

130. Depends where in Europe.

I would say GB and France would be fine.

[distantearlywarning]

131. My parents didn't get to make those kinds of decisions for me when I was 18

That's because I was legally an adult, and they were smart enough to realize that.

Don't be a helicopter parent. That kind of behavior breeds childlike "adult" children who aren't self-sufficient or confident.

The fact that you had to even ask this question, and that one of your family members advised you to attempt to forbid another adult from doing something kind of horrifies me, actually...

On Edit: I went to the UK on my own when I was 19. It was fun. Nothing bad happened. My parents didn't even get a vote. I just called them up, told them I was going, and they said "have a good time!" and that was that. My best friend in college (who had some very overprotective parents) travelled all over the world by herself between the ages of 18 and 21, including to Africa and Thailand. She's in her 30s now and has some great memories of that time in her life. As do I.

[defendandprotect]

132. Buy yourself a ticket and go with them . . .

Especially girls can seem very mature --- but not really so.

[WillieW]

133. Of course I would let her travel to Europe. She will not be alone anyway

[Imagevision]

135. I disagree, see the movie taken - key in "Taken" on youTube

[MineralMan]

164. It's a movie, for pete's sake.

It's a movie that takes an extreme situation and plays it up for all its worth. Tell your daughter not to share rides with strange guys at the airport. She'll need to be as careful in the countries she's going to as she is here in the USA when out on her own.

[Hannah Bell]

136. my cousin & her 2 friends just did it. no problems at all. they loved it.

stayed at hostels & hotels, 6 countries, 2 weeks.

18 yr-olds, recent hs grads.

they called or emailed their families every day.

[aikoaiko]

139. Thats not really "alone" in Europe. I say yes.

[dcindian]

140. Yes I would even encourage her.

I do find your lack of concern for her grandparents safety quite disturbing though.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

141. Interrailing is common - my sister did it.

It's not 100% safe, but nor is anything else - it's no more dangerous than letting someone go off for the day in a big American city multiple times (you're as likely to be a victim of crime if you go somewhere once a month for a year as you are if you go there for 12 days together; criminals don't take note of how long you've been around).

To be more exact, the danger of something seriously bad (crime, major accident or similar) happening is no more than in a big American city - quite possibly less; much of Europe has lower crime rates; the danger of something minor and potentially distressing but not serious - getting lost in a country where you don't speak the language, being unable to find a hotel and having to spend a night in a doorway, or similar - is slightly higher unless they're sensible and organised, but that's probably just a learning experience.

[madaboutharry]

142. No

I am a member of a private web site (that actually has to do with cooking) where most of the members live in western europe, mostly the U.K. and France. Often discussions are off topic. I will tell this: These parents Do Not Allow their teenagers, who live in europe, to travel alone. There have been discussions about how they won't allow their teenager daughters spend the day in London by themselves.

[malaise]

143. When I was nineteen

two friends and I traveled across Europe on our own. We didn't ask out parents' permission. We told them we were planning the trip and they gave us great ideas.

The reason Boomers are better at survival than their children is because our parents brought us up to be independent adults who would leave their homes and be capable of running our own lives.

Let go.

[illuminaughty]

144. I went to Cairo, Egypt at 18....alone...had only a name of

a Friend's friend to contact. I had an incredible time and continued my friendship with someone I met for over 10 years. Out of my more than 30 trips to Europe most of them were alone. The flight I always connected out of Rome to Egypt was hijacked at one time, bombed another. That year Europe was empty of Americans. But my Mom, Niece and I didn't cancel. We had Rome to ourselves. I was in Egypt the week after Sadat's assassination. We'd heard the country was in chaos but it just wasn't true.

The most dangerous places I've been have been here in this country. I would not walk to the 7-11 down the street, but I'd walk about anywhere in Europe without fear.
The only time I was ever even threatened was when gypsy kids tried to steal my purse.

I know as a mother it must be hard not to worry. But, just think what a mother from Europe must think sending their child here to the gun fatality capital of the world.

[Autumn Colors]

145. She's a legal adult -- there is no question of "letting" her do anything (nt)

[alphafemale]

147. My daughter spent her fall semester in Tanzania at 19.

My daughter spent her fall semester in Tanzania at 19.

She emailed tales that would curl my straight hairs and straighten my curly ones.

I had a recurring nightmare while she was there of her being in a vehicle charged and attacked by an elephant. When, she was home she let me know that something very similar actually happened.

She was tagging along behind baboons...Alone. Have you seen the fangs on those nasty buggers?

She sprained her ankle once hobbled to a road and flagged down a pickup truck with the bed full of rifle toting men. Relax. It was an anti-poaching patrol. Wait. Poachers? What?

Still, it was the chance of a lifetime for her.

I would have never stood in the way of it.

Trust that you did a good job of raising a human and just the damn chains.

Besides, there's nothing you can really do if she's 18.

Nothing short of poisoning the relationship you have with her for the rest of your collective time on earth, anyway.

Let. Her. Go.

[tekisui]

148. Yes! It's the opportunity of a lifetime. Make sure she uses her head.

But, I highly recommend it.

[ejpoeta]

149. she's an adult at 18, right?? i wouldn't pay for any trip to europe,

so she would be spending her own money. so then i would not have a say. maybe if there were a larger group to go.... that would be better. they could travel in a large group. i don't know. but at 18 a parent really doesn't have much of a say unless they are paying.

[B Calm]

150. Does she go unescorted here in the US? Let her go!

[trof]

152. Nope. Our daughter went at age 21 with a friend.

Between her junior and senior college years.
And she was a very savvy young woman, even back then.
Plus they were on a guided TWA GetAway tour, always with a group and 'minders'.

I would have let her go with her grandparents at 18, but not if they were going to leave her to her on her own for 2 or 3 days at a time.
Why does that have to be?

[Emit]

169. Grandparents won a trip through Grandpa's work - and their plans are set and paid for

They are paying extra for my daughter's flight and hotel room, and are paying her food and expenses. Her friend is paying for her own flight, food and extra expenses. The company has Grandparents scheduled for several tours and award dinners where the girls are not going to be able to attend. Then, toward the end, they will separate, with the grandparents catching connections to go on a river cruise somewhere, and the girls going their own way to catch their return flight home.

I don't have all the details yet, and some are still being worked out. But, I do know that the trip to UK is pretty well solidified and I'm not so concerned there. They will also be in Brussels, Amsterdam and Paris. At which point (what cities) they will be one their own and for how long, I do not know yet. I am meeting with Grandparents this weekend to get the details and to discuss options (ground rules?) for what the girls need to prepare for when they are on their own.

[cynatnite]

153. I traveled Europe alone and had NO problems at all.

If you trust her, let her go. Have a talk with the grandparents and lay down some preconditions to help ease your mind.

[Redneck Socialist]

154. Do you trust your daughter? Is she responsible?

Do you trust her friend? Is her friend responsible?

If the answer to those questions is "yes" then sure, send them off to Europe. If the answer to those questions is no, then well, you've got other problems.

I'm pretty sure your daughter is going to get into far more trouble in college (assuming she's going) right here in the good ol' us of a then she will in Europe.

[ThomWV]

155. Hell no, put her in a tower and protect her virginity until the fair maden is rescued by a Prince

She's 18 - she's an adult.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

157. I'm sorry but I wouldn't let her go. Americans aren't well liked right now. ..n/t

[Stevenmarc]

You don't get to Europe much, do you.

Europeans seem to have the ability to differentiate America from Americans, and you may not have noticed, like a lot of Europeans have, that there is this new guy, what's his name, oh yeah, Obama, he seems to have changed a lot of their attitude on America.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

163. Hey snot-man, you don't have a teenage daughter do you?

...You worry about them when they go off to college. You hope an pray they're safe but you never know.

[Stevenmarc]

165. I don't have a problem with concern

I do have an issue with concern based on unfounded fear. I travel to Europe frequently and have never had an issue with my nationality no matter who was in charge of our government.

[donco6]

177. Maybe. But the last time I was in Amsterdam, . . .

. . . I almost got into a fight with someone for no reason at all, other than they knew I was American. It rattled me, and I'm almost 50.

This was in 2007. I hope things have changed.

[Mind_your_head]

231. lol - idjiout!

[DireStrike]

158. Yes yes yes!

She'll be angry with you forever if you don't. I'm still mad at the babysitter who didn't let me stay up when the Rangers won the cup.

She's 18.

It's Britain and France, not Iraq or even Spain.

You really don't trust her at 18? Have you been sheltering her? She's supposed to go out into the world and experience all the crazy things, avoid some of them, do some she later regrets but smiles about anyway when telling the story, and all that stuff. I think you're letting your own experience scare you again.

Edit to add, I am a "young" person, 24 to be exact.

[gollygee]

159. She's 18. Would you let an 18-year-old son?

Yes, I'd let her go.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

160. She's 18. Way I See It, It's Not Your Decision To Make In The First Place, With All Due Respect.

She should no longer be under your thumb and controlled by you (such as you letting her or not letting her). You can advise her, but at the end of the day the decision should be hers and hers alone.

[Dorian Gray]

161. I did it when I was 20....

for a month...

18 does seem too young, but it also sounds like they'll mostly be with the grandparents.

[JSK]

166. My daughter traveled ALONE from Tuscany, Italy to a suburb of London

when she was 22. It was the longest day of my life.

We made sure she had an international cell phone. I wouldn't worry as much if the two girls will always be together. Only you, her parent, can judge her degree of responsibility and street smarts. If you let her do this, it will probably be one of the best things she ever does. If you can live through it!!

[saltpoint]

168. Ask her to please keep a good head on her shoulders and then send her

to the airport with your most inspired blessing.

It would be a wonderful experience for your daughter and her friend, made better if they have others' support.

[treestar]

170. My niece at age 20 was fine

She even traveled alone to meet us - and friends of hers that were studying in other cities. Europe isn't any more dangerous than the US and may be safer.

She even missed a plane at one point and managed to find a hotel room and arrange for another flight.

I did a college semester and London and was perfectly safe there. You can walk across London in the middle of the night. The poor neighborhoods there were, at the time, just poor. No gangs and no more criminal than anywhere else.

[comrade snarky]

172. Let her go if she's not an idiot.

You know whether that's true or not. Could she be trusted to not do something life endangeringly stupid if she were in Kansas City with a friend for 3 days unsupervised? If so then she'll be fine in Europe.

There are 2 distinct types of crime, assault and robbery.
Traveling in Europe there is a moderate chance they will face some form of the latter whether it be someone at a hostel grabbing an ipod or a professional pickpocket outside Notre Dame. About the same chance as being in San Fransisco's Union Square the week before Christmas. Learn what to do, keep important documents in a money belt so having a pocket picked costs you a days money and makes for a great story. Most pick pockets are pros and the last thing they want is a violent confrontation.
Violent crime however is a different story. It's rare. Can I say it wont happen? Of course not but in my experience to find the "bad" areas in most European cities you have to go looking. Hell, in Paris you've got to get on a train and ride 20 minutes outside the city to a burb.

Will she do something you or I think is dumb? I'm sure she will, that's how you learn and grow. Those are the experiences that make us who we are. They give us the sophistication and self knowledge to deal with life's problems when they occur. I'm sorry to tell you that she's going to make some mistakes wherever she is. It's part of growing up. Preventing her from going to Europe wont stop it, at best it will delay for a year or two while at the same time preventing her access to the incredible growth travel offers.

The fear I've seen in this thread saddens me deeply. Too may people clinging to what I see as a falsely perceived safety in the USA. The world doesn't hate us. The vast majority of us on this site have seen through the manipulations of FOX news when it comes to politics but we are still buying into the media generated fear of other places. Movies like Taken are made to take advantage of that by playing to our darkest media encouraged fears and selling us a revenge fantasy. A revenge fantasy for an event that hasn't happened but is on our minds and makes us afraid. What are Americans encouraged to do when we're afraid? Lash out violently just like the main character and it's OK because he has a reason. Doesn't that feel better?

Movies like Taken play us for fools.

I'm going to recommend another site to you. Rick Steves Europe Through the Back Door http://www.ricksteves.com/
He's the travel nerd from PBS with fantastic advice for novice travelers. Read some of the forums and articles there, there is even advice for parents whose kids want to go to Europe.

[Cleita]

174. Yes, I would but I would try to explain the hazards to them first. They will

have some bad experiences but tell them in no circumstances should they do drugs. Some countries have some very draconian laws about drug use and possession. I actually used to meet European kids on the road who were back packing through North and South America. They seemed to fare all right by paying attention to what might be a bad situation before walking into it. Traveling on a shoe string budget is a very enriching experience.

[donco6]

176. Except for the unescorted trip home, I'd probably do it.

There's no way I could leave them in Europe alone, period. Letting them do their thing for a day, knowing where they're going, and lecturing them up the yazoo about the dangers - yes. Leaving them to find their way to the airport alone - absolutely not.

[comrade snarky]

179. Really?

You wouldn't trust two 18 year olds to find their way to an airport alone? Most European cities it's get on the train, change train (maybe) and get off the train at the airport.

Seriously, what do you think is going to happen?

Edited to add:
Millions of European 18 year olds do it all the time. Unarmed, in countries where they don't speak the language. Only about 1/3 end up injured or dead.

[donco6]

181. Do what you want.

Just telling you that I'd want to be with them when they checked in at the airport. If they don't check in, that's a lot of time wasted in searching for them while you have to rush back to Europe.

[comrade snarky]

183. Cell phones work there too

Have to rush back to Europe? You mean from the US?
Would an 18 year old just sit down and cry until someone came to help? Good lord, even if that happened an airport cop would find a person who speaks english, assuming you're not in the UK of course (OK maybe in Scotland) and help the kid to the airline service desk where they will be re-booked by the english speaking agent.

Really, I'm honestly curious. What is it you are afraid will happen? I don't understand. I'm so confused.

[donco6]

190. I'm talking about if something happened.

Not just their getting lost on the way to the airport.

But, as I said, do whatever the hell you want.

[muriel_volestrangler]

188. I'm curious to know what you think they might do too

The DUer's daughter has been described as sensible. Making your way to an airport on time, with documents and luggage, is a fairly straight-forward process. A 14 year old could do it, let alone an 18 year old.

[comrade snarky]

189. There is so much fear around being in another country

Or maybe it's having a kid in another country, I don't know. Europe isn't a trap waiting to spring on innocent American kids. I cant understand the reactions of some people on this thread.

If your 18 year old can't handle getting to an airport on time you have some serious problems you need to address before they end up in a world of trouble. They're going to have to face the world some day. Frankly, I'd feel better about a 17 year old in Paris than I would about one in Fresno CA.

A lot less meth in Paris.

[donco6]

191. I'm not talking about getting fucking LOST on the way to the airport.

If they're that stupid, they shouldn't be left outside.

I'm talking about if something HAPPENED to them on the last day of their trip. Something BAD. And you've already LEFT the country. They won't be answering their fucking CELL PHONE. And you're in New York. 8 hours to delay before trying to find out what happened.

But whatever. If you're comfortable, why ask anyone else? Just to fucking argue when people give their thinking on it?

Stupid thread.

[muriel_volestrangler]

197. Getting lost is just what it sounded like you were talking about

You said:

"Except for the unescorted trip home, I'd probably do it.

There's no way I could leave them in Europe alone, period. Letting them do their thing for a day, knowing where they're going, and lecturing them up the yazoo about the dangers - yes. Leaving them to find their way to the airport alone - absolutely not"

"I'd want to be with them when they checked in at the airport. If they don't check in, that's a lot of time wasted in searching for them"

It was the 'trip' and 'finding their way to the airport alone' that was what you said was the problem. The thread starter was never going to be in Europe in the first place; the girl's grandparents were going to be with them on most of the trip. However, "they might have to catch their own flight home, without grandparents" - with the trip still being arranged, it's unlikely that the girls would have to leave days after the grandparents (because you'd just say "come back on the same flight") - it's more likely that they'd be leaving before, because they need to be back for college or something while the grandparents want longer in Europe (eg seeing old friends who'd bore the young girls).

But it's just as well we did ask you to explain what you meant - because "leaving them to find their way to the airport alone - absolutely not" really looks like you think they'd get lost. Now, you've actually given your thinking.

I'm surprised you bothered posting the 176th reply to a 'stupid thread'.

[comrade snarky]

228. Gee, So sorry I misunderstood what you were taking about

And asked you to clarify.
Wait, I'll say it you can understand. So Sorry I FUCKING misunderstood you.

It's not a stupid thread because you cant express yourself and other people disagree with you. Cant stand being questioned? Don't post. It might also help if you learn to read the OP.

Whoops I did it again, Don't fucking POST.

There, that's in your language

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

212. I never had a problem finding my way to the airport

Of course, my mom was concerned I would purposely miss my flight home from Ireland.

I would move there if I could.

[quiller4]

178. They are safer in many Western European cities

Both of my sisters encouraged their children to study abroad while still in high school. That involved travel alone as well as travel with host families. Now a great niece will leave for Germany next month. She is less likely to be a victim of violent crime on her travels than she is in the large midwestern city where she is a college sophomore.

Before sending a child out, it is important to have some discussions about safety but that would be true is they were heading to New York City, LA or Washington D.C. Statistically, students traveling alone now are at less risk than they were 10 or 20 years ago.

[B Calm]

180. When I was 18, I was in Vietnam. . .

[Mind_your_head]

232. You probably grew up "too quick" there, I'm sure....

:hug:

[Jakes Progress]

182. Back in the late seventies there was a fad

for mini-motorcycles. My best friend worked in a shop where they sold the little bikes for kids.

When parents would ask the owner if it was safe to buy one for their kid, the owner always asked how well the parent knew the kid. Was he smart and thoughtful? Or was he a klutz and prone to bad decisions? The owner would tell them if the kid was in the latter group, they would be dead in a month on one of his bikes. The trick was how accurately the parent could judge the maturity level and reasoning skills of his kid.

I would not want my grand niece going. But I think my even younger niece could do so without problem. My grand niece would have about a 25% chance of getting back without incident.

[dustbunnie]

184. Yes. I would let my child go.

I would give her the skinny on what happens when you drink too much and how the pimps come out of the woodwork in certain parts of London to take advantage of that, and also what can befall you in certain areas of Paris. But other than that, great experience, and even though you had a bad thing happen, these things can happen anytime, anywhere, and the prospect of learning so much overrides that. I don't know how many times I've been over the pond since childhood, starting from the terrible experience of my ditzy mother leaving me on a train alone at 5 years old to get connecting train directions. It's an experience growing adults need if they're going to succeed in the world today. All that history and art they'll be exposed to. The history! And even if they may do things that would make you want to cry and hold them close forever, you can't anyway. The fledgling survives. The funny thing is, it's the grandparents/your parents? who want to take them. Wisdom of the ages. :)

[mainer]

185. It'll be safer there than most of the U.S. (Except maybe Marseilles)

Where will she and her friend be on their own? If it's in central Paris or small towns in the UK, she'll be absolutely fine. There's not as much violent crime there. But she'll always have to be on the lookout for petty theft. And as in most places in the world, don't wander around drunk after dark. That's just a given.

Her grandparents should just exercise judgment as to where the girls stay while on their own. A nice hotel in a good part of town will be perfectly safe.

[uppityperson]

186. France and England? Depending on where, yes. Or no.

Being 18 in a Big City where you don't speak the language, depends on how mature they are. Most other places, should be no problem. Better to have 2 than 1 alone also as they can keep an eye out for each other.

Sounds like a really nice present, an educational and fun one.

[rucky]

196. What a great gift!

As a rule, I say never turn down an offer of: free food, free travel or free education.

[globalvillage]

199. Yes. With preconditions.

If they stick together and follow the rules, the tourist areas are at least as safe in Europe as here.

Tell them not to carry a lot of money and keep cash and cards in a zippered front pocket, not a purse or back pocket. No purse is best, that way they're not a target for thieves. A money belt is a good idea. There are ATMs everywhere in cities, no need to carry a lot of cash. Guard their PIN numbers. Use a credit card. Watch for pick-pockets!

Public transportation during the day, licensed taxi at night. Don't get in any unknown person's car. Same rule as at home.

Make sure their cards and cell phones will work in the cities they'll be in, and have them program the local police number and US embassy number before they go out for the day.

Catching their flight shouldn't be an issue. Call them before it's time to go to the airport to make sure they don't miss it.

Same common sense advice as they'd need at home, really. I don't blame you for worrying, I'm the same way, but I wouldn't let that keep them from such a wonderful experience. I would make mine call every morning to hear the same safety lecture.

I hope they have a blast.

[Geek_Girl]

200. If your daughter and her friend are both smart and responsible

I say let them go have a great time.

There is so much fear mongering these days about traveling to foreign places. I live in the South East in the good ole US of A in a small replicany city with those wholesome family values. It seems like every week someone in my neighborhood gets broken into and robbed. There are homeless and drug addicts all over downtown where I work. The US in my opinion is turning into a cess pool. She's probably safer in Europe.

[TransitJohn]

201. If she's 18 what do parents have to do with it?

I'd be concerned, and offer my advice, but the decision would be her's to make, obviously.

[Skittles]

202. when I was 18 I was in the military

she is plenty old enough

[jannyk]

213. Sure. We bought our daughter and a friend tix to Paris for her

High School graduation present.

She's 29 now, in a great job, well traveled and still claims it was the most valuable present she has ever received.

[TuxedoKat]

214. I'd let her go

I remember travelling alone from Spain to France (age 21) with no problem. Admittedly that was a while ago but my niece (22) has travelled to Europe every summer the past 4-5 years by herself for various summer college programs and has been to Spain, Italy, France and Albania. It is such a wonderful growth experience for a young person to travel overseas, especially on their own. I believe so much in travel for young people that I almost sent my then 11 year old on a group trip to London (for kids) last fall. It didn't work out, but perhaps this year she will go.

[AZBlue]

215. I don't know that she's any safer on the streets of the US than Europe.

And given that her grandparents will be there most of the time and will be aware if anything happens, why not let her go?

Plus, she is 18, she can go with or without your approval.

[marions ghost]

217. whew

I was wondering when somebody would say that...

A lot of Europeans would be laughing at this discussion by now. In the parts of Europe she will likely be in, it's safer than going to the local mall in the U.S.

:shrug:

I'm assuming that these girls have the benefit of all the usual travellers' tips. One suspects that the parents' concern reflects the fact that so many American kids must be sheltered these days, for their own safety. The idea of them going anywhere on their own is a big hurdle (understandably) for many parents who have had to raise kids in a climate of fear.

[flygal]

223. that's the truth

I live in Europe, and many kids leave to study English in other countries when they're 14. They travel by train to bigger cities alone. They walk to school alone. I'll have to mention this to friends and see what their reaction is but I'm sure they'll be astonished it's being discussed.

I say let them go but armed with cell phone and tons of contact info and a pretty strict itenerary.

[AZBlue]

236. You're exactly right.

Of course there are parts of the world that would be dangerous for anyone of any age to go to, but as you said, where they are likely to go IS much safer than any mall.

[Occam Bandage]

218. When I was 19, I took my 18-year-old girlfriend to China with me for a month.

Slept on trains and in hostels. Went fine.

[ecstatic]

219. It depends on how street savvy they are

I saw the movie Taken, and I must say I was astounded at how naive those girls were: You don't meet a stranger at the airport and tell him all your business, including where you're staying. If your daughter is that naive type who thinks that a cute guy can do no harm (or even a cute gal), then she might need adult supervision (eta: that goes for right here in the US as well). Some teens and adults lose all their common sense when traveling abroad. Normal rules still apply!

[BamaGirl]

221. I would probably not object

if my girls went together. (They're only 1 year apart in age.) They've got a bit of self defense training (more to come as the years pass I'm sure lol!) and they're learning Spanish in school and Gaelic from their dad. And together they're a bit intimidating lol! That's not the right word. They stick together; they work as a unit when they're not in the house. It's hard to explain.

Anyway, I kinda doubt Europe would be more dangerous for them than Bama where a kid seems to get arrested at least once a week at their school. By the time my girls are 18 they'll be really street smart with a hecka lot of common sense. (They really already are.) It's easier for me though, because, one they aren't near this kind of choice, and two, their dad's family is all in Ireland so they kind of have a European home base, ya know? I'd still worry, but I'd let them go.

[WildEyedLiberal]

222. I just spent 6 months in the UK alone - I was 23

Granted, being a recent college grad, I'd already had plenty of experience with living on my own/dealing with the bar scene, so it's impossible to compare my experience to what an 18 year old would have. But as long as she's responsible and not just going over there to get trashed a lot, she will be fine. Drinking is fine, and she'll be legal over there, as long as she knows her limits and never loses control. I've seen too many teenagers who go to Europe and treat it as one big party because "OMG I CAN DRINK OVER HERE WOOOOOOOOO" and who end up getting their wallets stolen or harassed by the creepy drunks or, god forbid, worse. Obviously, these kinds of things happen in American bars too, but since she doesn't yet have experience with the bar scene, I'd advise extra caution.

[WolverineDG]

225. What's with this "let" business? She's an adult & can do what she wants. nt

[AmyCamus]

227. If she's 18, it's her choice.

The Taliban would disagree.

[LNM]

229. Absolutely let them go.

But before you do TEACH them what they need to know. Teach them how to find their way around an airport and ask for help (find an info booth). Teach them how to read a metro/underground map. Teach them how to say "police" in a foreign language. Tell them that if they want some beer or a bottle of wine, go to the store and buy it and drink it in their room. Teach them that trouble starts when drunk teenagers toddle home from the pub in the dark. Teach them how to use an ATM and a calling card.

[Hanse]

230. For fuck's sake, cut the cord.

If you can't trust your adult child to take care of herself on a trip to Europe, then you're admitting that you haven't raised her to be a responsible adult.

[LisaL]

233. They are not going alone, but with grandpa and grandma.

Don't you think you are being overprotective?

[babythunder]

234. I went to Europe the first time when I was 18

which was 9 years ago and here's my advice you know you're daughter better then obviously anyone on this board but if she's mature with good street sense (for lack of a better world) it could be a great opportunity for her. And she is going with her grandparents which changes things a bit because she won't be traveling completely alone with no familiar adults. I know technically 18 is an adult but for an that I think when traveling to a completely different place where you know no one first the initial experience at that age you should have someone older with you. About two weeks after my high school graduation I went to Europe (England, France, and Spain) and it was by far the best experience of my life at that time.

Just my two cents.