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conservdem (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 11:31 AM Original message |
Are civilian criminal trials required for the underware bomber, KSM, and the like? |
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niyad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 11:32 AM Response to Original message |
1. you have a problem with our criminal justice system? you know, the whole "nation of laws" meme? |
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conservdem (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 11:36 AM Response to Reply #1 |
2. It's not perfect, but it's probably the best out there. |
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Truth2Tell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 03:04 PM Response to Reply #2 |
58. How do you know who's an enemy combatant without a trial? |
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conservdem (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 03:26 PM Response to Reply #58 |
60. What precludes that from being the intial qestion addressed by the |
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Truth2Tell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 03:51 PM Response to Reply #60 |
61. The lack of a set of rules |
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conservdem (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 04:55 PM Response to Reply #61 |
67. With some of my replies I have stated reasons for not using it. |
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Truth2Tell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 05:43 PM Response to Reply #67 |
76. "FDR did it" is not a reason. It's just a cheap |
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conservdem (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 07:31 PM Response to Reply #76 |
80. Tribunals are within the US legal system, thanks to |
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Truth2Tell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 08:35 PM Response to Reply #80 |
84. Sure, "accurate and just" is just a common sense |
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Ardent15 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 11:38 AM Response to Original message |
3. you're gonna be real popular here with that username.... |
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conservdem (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 11:40 AM Response to Reply #3 |
6. Yeah, I know I am not popular, but I am not hiding my inclinations. |
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spanone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 11:38 AM Response to Original message |
4. let's get the truth in the open....these thugs belong to no military |
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conservdem (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 11:57 AM Response to Reply #4 |
13. Just because others have been tried in civilian criminal trials |
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rgbecker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 02:06 PM Response to Reply #13 |
50. I suppose we could go by the constitution...Article III, section 2 |
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conservdem (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 02:31 PM Response to Reply #50 |
54. It seems that the concept of "unlawful combatant" or "ememy combatnat" predates Bush/Cheney. |
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conservdem (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 05:14 PM Response to Reply #50 |
73. The Germans giving rise to the first Supreme Court case |
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ThomWV (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 11:39 AM Response to Original message |
5. By "the like" do you mean people like Yoo and Addington? Real terrorists. |
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conservdem (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 11:43 AM Response to Reply #5 |
8. At the very least, I would like to see them referred to the |
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Goldstein1984 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 11:42 AM Response to Original message |
7. I'm getting tired of this "enemy combatant" nonsense |
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spanone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 11:44 AM Response to Reply #7 |
9. it's also a way of dealing with terrorists so we hear NONE of the testimony |
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conservdem (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 12:03 PM Response to Reply #9 |
14. I would not want them to be held in secret |
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conservdem (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 11:52 AM Response to Reply #7 |
11. I do not know that the catagory of "enemy combatant" is nonsense. |
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Goldstein1984 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 12:17 PM Response to Reply #11 |
20. I do. It's probably in one of the numerous folders I've created |
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conservdem (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 12:35 PM Response to Reply #20 |
26. Thanks. And I apprciate the work you did to keep |
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Goldstein1984 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 12:43 PM Response to Reply #26 |
29. This is an interesting subject |
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treestar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 12:21 PM Response to Reply #7 |
22. Agreed, what problem did the jerks have with the POW category? |
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MilesColtrane (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 12:30 PM Response to Reply #22 |
24. The Geneva Convention |
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Goldstein1984 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 01:30 PM Response to Reply #24 |
38. Yes, but prisoners of war are "legal combatants" |
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Goldstein1984 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 12:39 PM Response to Reply #22 |
28. Since I hastily wrote my post... |
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Posteritatis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 01:28 PM Response to Reply #22 |
37. It conferred rules upon the captor, and you know how Republicans are about responsibilities. (nt) |
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jwirr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 01:00 PM Response to Reply #7 |
33. Thank you. Back to the rule of law. |
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PacerLJ35 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 08:10 PM Response to Reply #7 |
83. The proper term is "unlawful combatant" |
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Goldstein1984 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-01-10 01:10 AM Response to Reply #83 |
88. Yes, I found that two-part breakdown of "enemy combatant" |
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PacerLJ35 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-01-10 01:22 AM Response to Reply #88 |
89. Hope he stays safe...things are a lot better there now than 3 years ago |
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Goldstein1984 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-01-10 01:56 AM Response to Reply #89 |
90. Thanks! I'll pass that along to his mother. |
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sharesunited (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 11:52 AM Response to Original message |
10. We are being reassured that KSM is guilty, will be found guilty, and will likely be executed. |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 11:57 AM Response to Original message |
12. Sufficient unless you are interested in getting a conviction. |
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NNN0LHI (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 12:03 PM Response to Original message |
15. Lumping KSM and the underwear bomber together is your mistake |
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conservdem (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 12:14 PM Response to Reply #15 |
18. I agee with a lot of what you wrote. |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 12:05 PM Response to Original message |
16. Let's see, we just got done trying one terrorist in civilian court, and that went well |
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conservdem (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 12:27 PM Response to Reply #16 |
23. If that is the best reason against it, I remain unconcincied. |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 01:15 PM Response to Reply #23 |
35. Then try this one on for size |
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conservdem (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 01:36 PM Response to Reply #35 |
39. It does not seem to be unconstutional. |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 01:55 PM Response to Reply #39 |
46. Wow, I certainly hope that you're not a lawyer, |
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conservdem (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 04:45 PM Response to Reply #46 |
66. Thanks for confirming that my "last contention" about reasonable doubt was correct. |
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rgbecker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 02:19 PM Response to Reply #23 |
51. Its about the Constitution. Trial required with Jury for crimes. |
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alcibiades_mystery (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 05:21 PM Response to Reply #23 |
75. If a non US citizen commits a crime in the United States, he or she is tried in a US court of law |
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conservdem (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 08:02 PM Response to Reply #75 |
82. Take a look at |
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alcibiades_mystery (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 09:05 PM Response to Reply #82 |
86. I don't give |
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Coyote_Bandit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 12:12 PM Response to Original message |
17. I have to ask |
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conservdem (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 12:58 PM Response to Reply #17 |
32. I do not know that enemy combatant requires a formal declaration of |
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CJCRANE (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 01:38 PM Response to Reply #32 |
41. If they can be tried, convicted and sentenced appropriately in a civilian court |
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conservdem (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 01:51 PM Response to Reply #41 |
42. If they can be tried, convicted, and sentenced appropriagely in a |
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CJCRANE (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 01:55 PM Response to Reply #42 |
45. What is the history and reputation of military tribunals? I don't know much about them. |
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Coyote_Bandit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 01:51 PM Response to Reply #32 |
43. Go to law school |
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conservdem (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 02:03 PM Response to Reply #43 |
48. You really think cowardice is the driver for desigations of |
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Warren Stupidity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 05:12 PM Response to Reply #48 |
72. pretty much yes |
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Coyote_Bandit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 08:41 PM Response to Reply #48 |
85. Ummmm...... |
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CJCRANE (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 12:16 PM Response to Original message |
19. "The best revenge... |
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treestar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 12:21 PM Response to Original message |
21. Of course. If the U.S. has jurisdiction |
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conservdem (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 01:52 PM Response to Reply #21 |
44. I agree that KSM probably should not have been brought here. |
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Garbo 2004 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 02:54 PM Response to Reply #44 |
57. What about Ramzi Yousef? Do you have a problem with his federal trial & conviction? nt |
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conservdem (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 03:19 PM Response to Reply #57 |
59. No. Do you have a problem with the tribunal |
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Garbo 2004 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 10:34 PM Response to Reply #59 |
87. As a justification for setting up an extrajudicial system subject to the whim of a President, |
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timeforpeace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 12:31 PM Response to Original message |
25. It is odd to see the same people who support bombing these guys in Pakistan saying they need a US |
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conservdem (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 12:38 PM Response to Reply #25 |
27. I do not follow what you mean. |
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timeforpeace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 04:02 PM Response to Reply #27 |
62. Specifically what is not clear? |
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conservdem (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 04:58 PM Response to Reply #62 |
69. The point of your reply. |
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CJCRANE (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 12:48 PM Response to Original message |
30. "They hate us for our freedoms". |
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HysteryDiagnosis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 12:55 PM Response to Original message |
31. Enron held a birthday party for shrub... people died in California |
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sufrommich (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 01:01 PM Response to Original message |
34. It's underwear. nt |
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Posteritatis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 01:27 PM Response to Original message |
36. Seeing as there's no such thing as "enemy combatants" I'd say no, that wouldn't be sufficient. (nt) |
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Codeine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 01:38 PM Response to Original message |
40. I propose military tribunals for people who misspell "underwear." nt |
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inna (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 01:59 PM Response to Reply #40 |
47. no kidding. |
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Tierra_y_Libertad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 02:06 PM Response to Original message |
49. Seeing as how they're criminals it seems appropriate. |
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conservdem (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 05:02 PM Response to Reply #49 |
70. Terrorism by a non-citizen seems to me to be well beyond ordinary criminal |
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Hippo_Tron (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 02:22 PM Response to Original message |
52. They were captured in the United States by law enforcement |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 02:24 PM Response to Original message |
53. lemme see all who have been tried |
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rgbecker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 02:32 PM Response to Original message |
55. Read up a little on Military Tribunals please. |
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conservdem (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 02:47 PM Response to Reply #55 |
56. Ex Parte Milligan delt with |
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rgbecker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 04:05 PM Response to Reply #56 |
63. Maybe so, but these 9/11 crimes were committed in NY, Wash dc.... |
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conservdem (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 04:18 PM Response to Reply #63 |
64. I have no inside knowledge. |
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rgbecker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 04:56 PM Response to Reply #64 |
68. I hope that when they come to get me, the justice I get isn't dependent on |
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Truth2Tell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 05:51 PM Response to Reply #64 |
77. "I would hope there would be greater likelihood of a conviction..." |
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conservdem (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 07:37 PM Response to Reply #77 |
81. See reply 80. nt |
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The Velveteen Ocelot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 04:21 PM Response to Original message |
65. I don't understand why conservatives have so little faith in the legal system |
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Goldstein1984 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 05:56 PM Response to Reply #65 |
78. They don't have any faith in it because |
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Warren Stupidity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 05:04 PM Response to Original message |
71. every person is guaranteed a trail by a jury of his peers in an open court |
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alcibiades_mystery (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 05:20 PM Response to Original message |
74. Criminal trials are essential |
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rug (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-31-10 05:58 PM Response to Original message |
79. No they're not. We'll just send them to the coordinates of the next drone strike. |
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