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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 07:55 PM
Original message
The Obama Recovery...
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WolfoftheWild Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. that's got a nice ring to it, huh?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 07:57 PM
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2. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 08:09 PM
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namahage Donating Member (678 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
4. Rec'd to 0.
Policies over personality, indeed.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
5. Rec'd to 1-progress! nt
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
6. Peachy.
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WolfoftheWild Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. do you see what happened between November and December?
that's right, my friend.
a downward trend!
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. My God, it's an avalanche!
:woohoo:
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WolfoftheWild Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. it's prelude
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
7. That's good news.
Edited on Fri Mar-04-11 08:44 PM by bigwillq
K and R :thumbsup:
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. worst recovery since WWII
GDP grew 8% per year in FDR's first term.
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WolfoftheWild Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. if you had been alive when FDR was President, you would have thought he sucked, too.
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namahage Donating Member (678 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Self delete
Edited on Fri Mar-04-11 09:14 PM by namahage
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. No, but you'd have thought he was coddling Welfare Queens
So there.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-11 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
47. Absolutely
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namahage Donating Member (678 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #10
53. Or he might've been trying to tell us why FDR was right
Edited on Sun Mar-06-11 12:12 AM by namahage
to cave take no stand on Costigan-Wagner in order not to piss off some racist Southern Dems that he might need later.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #10
60. I would have thought he sucked. Locking up Americans and taking away their property for being the
wrong race is strongly against political leanings. I am deeply repulsed by institutional racism.
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toddwv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Really?
Unemployment peaked at 10.8% under Reagan and didn't start to fall until well into his 3rd year. Of course, that's when they started raising taxes and spending LOTS of money and the economy mysteriously started picking up again.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Yup. See here:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. At least use the current chart
Edited on Fri Mar-04-11 10:19 PM by ProSense
That's a huge hole. It's definitely the worst recession since the Great Depression. Still, given the severity, it definitely isn't the worst recovery.




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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Absolutely the worst recovery
Edited on Fri Mar-04-11 10:21 PM by MannyGoldstein
Look at the graphs! We've been stagnant for many months.

One of us is math-challenged.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Wrong,
look at the trajectory.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. $5 says it's the flattest slope since the nadir
Edited on Fri Mar-04-11 10:34 PM by MannyGoldstein
of any graph, this many months out.

You in?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Did you pay up for being wrong about Social Security and the SOTU?
I'll pass!

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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. can you point to a bet I lost?
Thanks.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Can you point to one related to Social Security that you won? n/t
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. If anyone would have bet me that Obama would
Discuss SS cuts at the SOTU address, I would have won.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-11 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #20
41. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #19
57. Manny has an agenda.. so I dont think it was a mistake he posted that old mis-leading graph.
The trends on the up-to-graph look decent to me. Long way to go but definitely heading in the right direction.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-11 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
43. That wasn't a cyclical or a systemic crash but a purposeful one to lay the groundwork for our
present world of shit and supposedly to fight inflation.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
28. You're wrong, Manny. Better learn more about FDR's first year here -->
Edited on Fri Mar-04-11 11:12 PM by ClarkUSA
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. One of us is wrong.
I don't think it's me.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-11 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. Yes, and it's you, not that you'd ever admit it. More proof -->
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Badfish Donating Member (543 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-11 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #8
40. you mean fastest recovery since WWII
point at a faster recovery from a hole that deep.
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mikekohr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #8
55. Worst Economic Downturn Since WWII and President Obama's 1st Term is not complete,
?
One should also note that in the very first quarter that President Obama was in office, the effects of the stimulus began to reverse the free fall he inherited from George W. Bush. In the ending of George W. Bush's Great Recession, we see the same pattern repeated: Republicans cause recessions, Democrats clean them up.

(see History of Recessions) http://bureaucountydems.blogspot.com/p/history-of-recessions.html

It took 6 months for President Obama's economic and tax policies to return GDP to positive territory. If we as a nation want to avoid the painful recovery from the climb out of economic holes we have to quit electing those digging them.

?


GDP Growth 1933, -1.3%
GDP Growth 1934, +10.9%
-------------------------
average +4.8% source: http://www.davemanuel.com/historical-gdp-numbers-united-states.php





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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #8
58. So you finallly admit we are in a recovery...
That's progress!
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #8
61. FDR had an 83% Dem congress, I see you CONTINUE to leave this out of your naritive
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WhaTHellsgoingonhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
12. How are the Dems going to give this one to the Rs, too?
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
13. I'm proud to be the Obama supporter who gave this OP its 7th rec.
Bookmarked for the recovery deniers amongst us. Maybe they'll respond to the pretty picture.

:sarcasm:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
23. Here's
another good chart.

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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
29. K&R
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
30. Deleted message
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Republicans - the job killers
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-11 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. First of all,
those numbers are all wrong.

"4 million jobs were lost, dammit! That means 3.3 years and until the job deficit is made up"

More than 8 million jobs were lost, and if you factor in population growth the number is about 11 million to date.

Factoring jobs creation, the current jobs deficit is about 7.5 million.

As for how long it will take to make it up, it wasn't long ago that the projections were 22 years based on previous report.

So the prediction of 3.3 years (it's more like nine years based on the current jobs numbers) would signal an improvement. Still, that's the funny thing about projections, they changes with the numbers.




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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-11 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. FDR halved unemployment in 4 years
That's what Liberal policies can accomplish.

At the current job "growth" rate, after counting population growth, we're going nowhere at all. And now that our elected officials seem almost unanimous in shoving "shared sacrifice for the little people" Hooverian economics down our throats, we're utterly fucked.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-11 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. >
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-11 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #33
38. Yes they do. The difference between high and low end estimates--
--leads to the conclusion that our society is totally fucked either way. Faster or slower, the handbasket is going to hell. The Repukes will not let the government take the necessary strong role in doing something about it, even if Obama were willing, which (going by his nibbling around the edges with minor reforms policies) he doesn't seem to be.
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WolfoftheWild Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-11 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #30
36. you really expect all those jobs to have been regained in 2 years? that is irrational.
So is ignoring obvious progress because it doesn't fit into your accepted framework.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-11 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. The problem is that for 15 fucking years there has been no net gain in jobs
After 15 years, it's time for massive government action to do something about that. Tax cuts and the private sector are proven failures.
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WolfoftheWild Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-11 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. so, you expected Obama to fix 15 years worth of problems in 2 years?
He's a badass, but he's not Superman.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-11 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. The last four of those 15 years would be on his watch. I expect him to
--use his bully pulpit to advocate for massive intervention, and to go after the Repukes for blocking it.
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WolfoftheWild Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-11 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. he's only been in power for al little over 2 years. that's a fact.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-11 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. That does not change what he needs to do n/t
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hulka38 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-11 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
42. Number of jobs is only part of the problem.
The way wages and benefits are declining in real terms means we're all going to need 1.5 jobs just to maintain our income levels. Put that in your equation.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-11 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #42
48. +1
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #42
62. One out of four children in poverty, and numbers increasing,
and a hell of a lot of depressing talk about the "new normal."

Recovery my ass.
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WolfoftheWild Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-11 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
44. kick
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-11 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
49. Not good.
We simply do not have a strong foundation on which to support the fallout from current hyper-speculation. Take the weak growth in our employment base and continued declining wages, and it's clear that we cannot afford to deal with loss in treasury demand, global spikes in commodity prices, or the recurring financial collapse which is a likely outcome of the gross economic mismanagement whereby the power structure handed trillions in real wealth to the corrupt banking sector, then demanded hefty sacrifices from workers and savers.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-11 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
51. the stimulus was what kept us from the abyss.
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NillaWafers Donating Member (120 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 01:23 AM
Response to Original message
54. Housing prices are starting to recover. Actual unemployment numbers are starting to finally lower.
I hope to god that we are finding our way out.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
56. Yeah? At what wages?
These charts always seem to leave out the parts about "dramatically lowered wages, benefits, and security".
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Avant Guardian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
59. The economy is held together with duct tape and bailing wire
...until the Bush tax cuts go away
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