Reply #16: After what happened in Europe with the Greens, esp....

[Dirk39]

in Germany, it seems to me that rather the system is the problem. Germany's Green Party in the late 70ies/early 80ies was a story of success, but today the Green party is even more neoliberal and corrupt than the Social-Democratic-Party.

And our Social-Democratic-Party was taken over by the Blairists, just like the DLC and Clinton did it with the Democrats. But the Greens are worse.

The Greens were attractive for a new middle-class, tired of the old-party system, engaged in Grass-Roots politics, when they were young - and about to defend their middle-class income, prestige and security, when they were getting older. And maybe some responsible members of the real elite wouldn't sell their soul for 10.000€ a month, but some former teachers would:-)
Just take a look at the former cab-driver Joschka Fischer or at Schroeder and you get the lesson...

Today, even the Social Democrats with their bureaucrazy and their old ties to the unions are not as bigott as the Greens. But still disgusting enough, to not vote for them - at least for a leftist like me.

And I hardly doubt that those in the USA, who would back and support a more left-of-center party, would be workers or unemployed people or those, who live in the ghettos.

The question is, how to change the relation between parties like the Democrats and the people. The question is how to separate the Democrats from the Lobbyists and the Corporations.

And the question is, if you can do it within the existing democratic party or not.

It's an illusion to believe that a more left of center party with a working relation to the people, reaching enough voters to somehow push the Democrats to build a coalition with them as the only chance for the Democrats to win, would be the way to go.

It's exactly what the more progressive and liberal and leftist people in Europe, esp. in Germany tried. And we failed badly.

It MIGHT work, but it isn't the holly grail, if you ask me.

After nearly one catastrophic decade of neoliberal politics commited by a coalition of Greens and Blairist Social Democrats here in Germany, who are nothing but corporate whores, it rather seeems to me that the traditional SPD has more problems with that than the Greens.

Since Blairist Schroeder is the head of the SPD, the SPD has lost nearly half of it's members within 10 years. Couldn't say that the members of the Greens did care...

And within the given system, small parties are much more attractive for careerists than big parties, go figure...

Hello from Germany,
Dirk