Reply #20: Where did I say or imply that the Sex Pistols were the entire movement?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Or, likewise, why do you assume my ignorance of the punk scene?

I've seen the doc you mentioned, and the presence of "normals" doesn't mean that there was no stress on fashion, image, etc. in the movement itself. Go to any "emo" or "hipster" populated show and you'll certainly find some normal looking people there too (myself among them sometimes). However, that doesn't mean that that scene doesn't focus on fashion, image, politics, etc. (Quite the contrary, in fact.)

But, apparently, I've been totally chumped because my opinion differs from yours! Lots of people have, apparently, because most of the contemporary punks I know think it is more about ideology than music. Likewise, the Wikipedia entry on "punk" features 1 small paragraph about the "Music" while it features a vast compendium of other subtopics focusing on things like "Ideology", "Fashion", "Visual Art", "Dance", "Literature", "Lifestyle", "Culture", etc.

As far as McLaren goes, I'm not sure exactly why you brought him up, particularly in relation to those "ACTUAL early punks"; McLaren began promoting the fashion that would become synonomous with punk in 1974/5 -- before the formation of ANY of the bands you mentioned as "ACTUAL early punks" (The Mintuemen weren't even around until the 80s; with the exception of Dead Boys, all the others you mentioned came around at least 2 or 3 years after The Ramones and The Sex Pistols) -- after a NY Dolls show; this was also incidentally the same year The Ramones started up shop. Funny -- the Wikipedia entry I cited on punk earlier also mentioned how all the kids were copying Joey's fashion sense.

But I guess I've just been totally chumped and am ignorant of the entire punk scene, right?