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Reply #143: sounds familiar, but there are some benefits- [View All]

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sawgrassstan Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 05:35 PM
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143. sounds familiar, but there are some benefits-
My sister and I went thru pretty much the same thing, except that we were fundamentalist baptists (American Baptist Convention-- Southern Baptists were way too liberal.) My parents were ALWAYS wacky this way, and even though I went to public school, our social life totally revolved around the church. Pretty much, I accepted it all-- that's what it's like when you're a kid.

As we grew up, the ludicrous nature of Mom&Dad's belief system got more and more apparent. My sister and I both grew up to be liberal Democrats, the equivalent of devil-worshippers in my family. I recently pointed out to her that if Dad had been a moderate, right-leaning religious conservative instead of a paranoid literalist wacko, we might have fallen for it and stayed "in the Church." Think about that in your case.

Also, I'd like to point out that you have an edge on other secular progressives if you were brought up on daily (or hourly, practically) bible readings: If you've kept up with all the verses you had to memorize when you were a kid, you have a FORMIDABLE bullshit detector for the Right's favorite debate strategy. Of course, I mean the slanted, twisted or out-of-context Bible quote. You've probably got an answer ready in your subconscious, if you're willing to pull the trigger-- "Yes, but didn't Jesus ALSO say (insert verse here.)
I don't always have chapter and verse at hand, but the quotes are solid, and you can pretty easily build up a stock of them to answer just about anything a right-wing preacher throws at you. Jesus' words in the Gospels are full of quotes about the needs of the poor and the venality of the rich, so that's my mainstay. Even better, nothing in the new testament mentions gay marriage, hollywood liberals, big government, or abortion. "Suffer the little children to come unto me," is the most common one I get about abortion, but it's out of context-- so point out the context. He was talking about specific children who were right in front of him.
"Anti-gay" verses almost always come out of the old testament, so when they drag those out, you've got a whole slew of verses right along side that one that justify slavery, burnt sacrifices, and other stuff that even the most "orthodox" Jews have abandoned. You'll want to check Leviticus for most of those, and also Deuteronomy.

I still read the bible, but as a work of social history-- a secondary source, as far as the historical record is concerned. I've really come to love the Roman Latin historians of the second century BC-- Tacitus, Suetonius, and their heirs like Cassius Dio in the next century. Of course, they don't mention things like the "census" that made Mary and Joseph travel to Bethlehem, or the eclipse when Jesus was crucified-- pretty big events, considering how detailed their accounts are, and not something they'd be likely to miss. I'm fascinated by the way the New Testament was put together over time-- and how any dissenting books from the same era were declared "heretical."

I'm sure you made the right decision, but let me assure you that when you're stuck in a room with a bunch of right-wing religious crazies, you have all you need to have a really fun time. The slogan "the religious right is neither" is far more than a slogan-- not only is it the truth, it's an invitation to a party and an acrobatic show. These people don't expect to have their phony quotes challenged, especially by a "liberal", and the squirming it provokes almost makes me believe in God again.

Have courage, and have fun!
PS-- also good to read (though quotes won't help against right-wingers) are Bertrand Russell's "Why I Am Not A Christian", and Thomas Paine's "The Age Of Reason." I'd probably vote for ANY candidate who had the courage to campaign as a "Deist."
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