Christian lawyers say bill, Bible don't mesh

[Rose Siding]

A national group of Christian lawyers is appealing to church leaders to join them in lobbying against the bankruptcy reform bill introduced by Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Ia.

The lawyers say the legislation runs contrary to the forgiveness of debt and charity required by the Bible.
...
In response, Grassley said Congress could not be bound by biblical mandates because "the Constitution does not provide for a theocracy."

"I can't listen to Christian lawyers because I would be imposing the Bible on a diverse population," Grassley said. "I'll bet those lawyers wouldn't want us to impose the principles of forgiving debt every seven years. If that were the law, nobody would loan them money."
...
The attorneys said objective studies have shown that families file for bankruptcy because they have been driven to do so.

http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050304/BUSINESS04/503040376/1029/BUSINESS

[sandnsea]

1. Debt forgiveness every 7 years

It's Scripture. So is caring for the elderly, disabled, widows and orphans.

Democrats are using the wrong Scripture. They ought to be hauling this stuff out like these lawyers did. I LOVE IT!!!

[The Zanti Regent]

38. You forget about their bible

The Jesusistas include Atlas Shrugged and the Fountainhead in their bible, so that fits right in their "Looking Out for #1" philosophy.

[Coastie for Truth]

Bush and the GOP

may be losing the Christian Conservative lawyer vote. Show Bush for the fraud that he is.

Maybe things are not as bad as Tom Frank said in "What’s the Matter with Kansas."

[Straight Shooter]

2. The principles of forgiving debt every seven years.

I'd forgotten about that one.

Looks like the "Christians" are beginning to complain, now that it's their ox getting gored, too. Welcome to the massive and ever expanding club.

[Trillo]

3. Won't listen to Christian lawyers? I wonder if he'll listen to

Corporate lawyers?

Was Grassley this picky about who he would take campaign contributions from?

A Senator that won't listen. Great. If they're not representing citizens, then just what are they 'representing?'

[proud patriot]

7. bush won't listen to anyone who dissagrees with him ..PERIOD

when oh when are these cultist followers of his
going to realize this ?

[bluestateguy]

4. This is our chance

This is an opportunity to redirect the debate over so called "moral values". Don't try to run away from it. Embrace it. Link liberal issue positions and policy committments to Christian themes and make liberal commitments matters of "moral values". People who are not religious will just have to swallow it for a little while.

[Zhade]

21. No, we don't. This is OUR country, too.

Religious rhetoric of any form should NOT be a formalized part of the Democratic Party.

That said, I am fine with Christian Dems individually linking their beliefs to the policies they support. It's their right.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. The Repubs pay attention to "Christian pirnciples" only when

it's expedient for them to do so. They try to jam Jesus down our throats whenever the issues of abortion or gay rights come up, but when somebody dares to suggest that Jesus thinks we ought to let people's debts be forgiven -- listen to them squeal! That would be imposing a theocracy, they whine, and we certainly can't do that...

Fucking hypocrites.

[TankLV]

34. I noticed that too. "Cherry Picking Christians".

Every single one of them.

What about erecting monuments to the "10 commandments"?

What about that abortion and gay thingy?

What about "b--h is sent by God" crap?

Amazing how quickly they can spin on a dime when the purpose suits them!

God spare me from your followers! Hypocrits all.

Cherry picking fundie hypocrits.

Not to be mistaken with true Christians who live and act in a true Christian manner like those certain fellow DU'rs.

[PurityOfEssence]

6. How intriguing: maybe greed will win out over fantasy yet

An afterlife, god, angels, the Sandman and whatever else falls under that umbrella are VERY powerful concepts, but there's still no proof. Greed, on the other hand is amply demonstrated, almost to the point of universality.

It would be nice if the nasties tear themselves apart over something like this: rejecting Mr. god for the sacred protection of the usuring moneylenders is a heady tack.

Sadly, since religion is now REQUIRED in this country, our only hope is for sensible, decent Christians to save the world. What's sad is that it will be a victory of believers regardless of what happens, and despite the attempts of Article One, non-believers or believers in other assumptions are not full citizens.

Grassley says that the god-guess has no part in government; I'll take what I can get.

Remember: Jesus was killed because he fucked with Religion, Inc. and its blood-sucking money-changing. Never mess with the mob.

[Trillo]

15. Fractional Reserve Banking.

What would happen if everyone stopped borrowing?

[NAO]

8. Detailed Analysis of Bush/GOP Policies vis-a-vis the Bible - Yurica Report

Katherine Yurica has written two pieces which provide a detailed alalysis of Bush Administration/GOP Policies vis-a-vis the Bible.

Congressional Handbook to inform Congress what the Bible says about Bush's Policies
http://www.yuricareport.com/Congress/CongressionalHandbook.pdf

Bloodguilty Churches
Why Bush’s Agenda Is Immoral and an Abomination to God
By Katherine Yurica
http://www.yuricareport.com/Religion/TheBloodGuiltyChurches.html

Contents

In the Beginning
Invade Iraq or What's a Preemptive Strike?
Lies About the Threat of War
What Does the Bible Say About Preemptive Strikes?
The War Fairs
What Does the Bible Say About Profiting from War?
Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo
Does Mr. Bush Have the Moral High Ground?
Bush's Agenda for Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid
What Does the Bible Say About How a Nation Must Treat the Poor and the Sick?
Mr. Bush's Immigration Plans
Deregulate Health and Safety and Environmental Laws
What Does the Bible Say About Rigging Devices?
Mr. Bush’s “Justice” Versus the Bible’s Justice
The Development of the Biblical Justice System
Be Careful Not to Commit Judicial Murders: The Texas Clemency Memos
Is Mr. Bush's Tort Reform Biblical?
The Bible's Criminal and Civil Code System
What Does the Bible Say About Abortions?
GOP Operatives as Slanderers and Hooligans, Scorner's and Ridiculers
What's Wrong With Today's Churches and 'Christians'?
Profile of the Man God Hates
End Notes

George W. Bush, his administration, the Republican controlled congress as well as the Republican Party itself, and most of the churches in America (including evangelical, Southern Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic), stand indicted—not by men—not by this writer—but by the very Holy Scriptures the religious-right and Mr. Bush profess to uphold.

Weighed against the Bible, the Bush actions are not only morally corrupt—they are unchristian and unbiblical to the core. In this essay, the Bush agenda is weighed on the scale of God’s standards and it is found wanting.

The Yurica Report
http://www.yuricareport.com/

[The Big Eh]

16. Thanks for the link, maybe they can stop him!

I'm convinced that her approach is what we need. It's the Bible Thumpers that elected this idiot, maybe it will be them that can stop him.

[TerdlowSmedley]

9. The bankruptcy reform bill does nothing to prevent very wealthy

from sheltering large assets in a bankruptcy and nothing to address corporate bankruptcies. Those are areas that really could use reform, rather than hitting harder on people who just happen to fall on hard times.

[TankLV]

35. Donald Trump - poster boy for corporate "responsibility".

How many times has this big time asshole gone bankrupt and screwed the people he contracted to do business with and just blew off?

2? 3? 4?

And this asswipe is STILL allowed to make NEW LOANS and screw MORE people!

And to think our company has a contract with him to do one of his new 50 story towers in Las Vegas. I just don't get it. Maybe our company is so large that they can write it all off as "advertising" when he screws up again?

I'm not privy to our contracts, so I don't know what goes on in the CEO's office.

Would LOVE to be a fly on the wall!

[sasquatch]

10. "We only speak of Jesus so we can get elected then it's 'Fuck you Jerky."

:grr:
Stinking hypocrits.

[Erika]

26. Exactly

[ashmanonar]

11. funny, isn't that separation of church and state?...

O.o

cuz yea, that's what it sounds like to me. "bill and bible don't mesh".

yep. separation of church and state.

[Rose Siding]

14. Who knew Grassley was such a staunch proponent of the concept?

The repubs would have their constituency believe otherwise.

Grassley just put his big foot in it. This quote will haunt him.

[ashmanonar]

18. yea, it looks like it.

good. i hope he has something to worry about now.

[gizmo1979]

12. nobody forces banks to loan money to anyone!

Life is a gamble,how come only rich people seem to get all the odds balanced in their favor.If you make unsecured loans to high risk individuals you are gonna lose some,so suck it up and play the risky game of life like the rest of us!!

[meow2u3]

20. Damn straight

These greedy banks--like most greedy people and/or entities--want guaranteed profits without risk.

[Liberal Veteran]

13. Yet if were about banning discrimination against gays or outlawing...

..gay marriage, he'd fall back on the bible to support his position.

[The Zanti Regent]

17. Grassley BSes about Jesus, but he really follows Ayn Rand

Just like every other phony Christian Republican. They spend a single hour on a Sunday in a segregated church every and right after the last asskinsing Amen, they go back to screwing everyone to get ahead!

[meow2u3]

19. Real Christians?! There is a God!

It's not just the proper Christian thing to do to forgive debts and not to oppress debtors. It's also common decency, common to all religions, even to the non-religious, something most Repukes and a few DINOs have seem to have forgotten.

[CBHagman]

22. Does this mean Grassley is okay with same-sex marriage?

Many politicians cite the Bible when objecting to homosexuality, and the GOP has been expending a lot of energy on trying to get a constitutional amendment (a rare, lengthy process) defining marriage as between one man and one woman (though I guess the Bible has varying depictions even of that institution!).

So if Grassley is so mad keen on diversity all of a sudden and would avoid a theocracy, I expect him to vote against faith-based initiatives and the constitutional amendment on marriage.

And I expect him to abandon the bankruptcy bill on PURE LOGIC AND DECENCY.

[Disturbed]

23. Banruptcy Bill is a gift to the Credit Industry.

Who are they representing? Most Congress shills represent Corporations that send them $$$$.

[Erika]

24. Grassley/GOP doing the work of the Anti-Christ

They use Biblical scripture only when it benefits the far right wing agenda of screwing the poor and killing their fellow planet inhabitants.

They ignore Christ's Golden Rule.

[Frumious B]

25. "No man can serve two masters."

It's funny how suddenly separation of church and state becomes an issue again when corporate monetary interests are being served.

[Erika]

27. Manna/Satan is the God of the GOP

[Supersedeas]

28. to forgive our debts, as we forgive the debts of others--not in * 'Merika.

[jwirr]

29. At least someone on the right

is reading their Bible!

[jmowreader]

30. Grassley REALLY needs to tell that to Bush

"The Constitution does not provide for a theocracy."

Then he may want to go over and tell that to Bush, who's doing everything in his power, and some extralegal things, to institute a theocracy in the United States.

[kodi]

31. compromise, institute a Jubilee Year

ah, the meeting of sacred and the shekel.

[bvar22]

32. Not so long ago,

USURY (borrowing or lending money at intrest) was one of the Seven Deadly Sins!

[regnaD kciN]

33. "The Constitution does not provide for a theocracy"...

The ultimate Talibornagain rationalization: When it comes to genitals, we must compel people to "obey the divine law." When it comes to money, "we can't force religion down people's throats, of course."

:grr: :argh: :puke:

(You know, the fundies like to believe that the "end-times" will begin any time now. I'd have to agree. If I were God, I'd be just about out of patience with this crap, and ready to call "game over.")

[Erika]

36. I have to wonder about the Rich

who lead lifestyles of million dollar villas, Mercedes, etc. Or in the case of Bush, generations of privilege, with no legitimate source for income of the likes of Neil, W, and etc.

[Solly Mack]

37. "the Constitution does not provide for a theocracy."

"I can't listen to Christian lawyers because I would be imposing the Bible on a diverse population"




ahem.. cough(hypocrite)

[Dufaeth]

39. I DO know someone who is running up debt

with the intent to file bankruptcy, because she thinks she'll then be free and clear.

[leesa]

40. Funny. The Fundies are getting the smack-down they richly deserve.

I wonder if GOP Fundies have an unusually high rate of bankruptcies?

[w4rma]

41. These Christians are most likely not fundies. (nt)

[Rose Siding]

42. This group is espousing a liberal view of bankruptcy

It's one that isn't written in the GOP's Bible of Convenience.

[Toots]

43. "because I would be imposing the Bible on a diverse population,"

Emmm..... I wonder how he feels about the ten commandment on taxpayer property?? Do other Republicans feel this way about imposing the Bible on a Divewrse Nation????? Curious minds would like to know.

[Nothing Without Hope]

44. The risk of nonpayment is part of the loan business and always has been

And there are good reasons for making it possible for people who have been brought low by troubles to be able to start over again.

This is sort of like reinstating DEBTORS' PRISON, don't you think?