NYT: Police Focus on Religion in Milwaukee Shootings

[DeepModem Mom]

Police Focus on Religion in Milwaukee Shootings
By JODI WILGOREN
Published: March 15, 2005


CHICAGO, March 14 - The police said Monday that they were increasingly focused on religion as the motive for a man's murderous rampage through a church service on Saturday at a suburban Milwaukee hotel, promising a full investigation even though the killings ended in suicide.

The local pastor of the Living Church of God, Randy L. Gregory, who was killed along with his 16-year-old son, appears to have been executed, the authorities said, while others among the seven dead and four injured were shot at random.

An earlier theory that the gunman, Terry Ratzmann, may have been upset about losing his job has been discarded after the police found that he had long known his contract as a computer technician for GE Healthcare would end on March 25. The authorities also said they found no evidence to support church members' reports that Mr. Ratzmann, 44, suffered from depression, and said that he was not on medication.

So while they remain unable to explain why Mr. Ratzmann stormed out of services two weeks before - or even whether the sermon that upset him was given via videotape by the church's international leader, Roderick C. Meredith, or by Mr. Gregory - the police see the little-known church as the key....


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/15/national/15milwaukee.html

[NNN0LHI]

1. Police Focus on Religion in Milwaukee Shootings

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/15/national/15milwaukee.html

CHICAGO, March 14 - The police said Monday that they were increasingly focused on religion as the motive for a man's murderous rampage through a church service on Saturday at a suburban Milwaukee hotel, promising a full investigation even though the killings ended in suicide. snip

An earlier theory that the gunman, Terry Ratzmann, may have been upset about losing his job has been discarded after the police found that he had long known his contract as a computer technician for GE Healthcare would end on March 25. The authorities also said they found no evidence to support church members' reports that Mr. Ratzmann, 44, suffered from depression, and said that he was not on medication. snip

The Living Church of God, an offshoot of a sect seen by some as a cult, the Worldwide Church of God, is a fringe group that advocates literal adherence to the Bible, observes a Saturday Sabbath, rejects the Holy Trinity concept and frequently focuses on a coming apocalypse. The national director of church administration, Charles Bryce, disputed reports about Mr. Ratzmann's angry departure from the Feb. 26 service but declined to discuss that week's videotaped sermon.

"We are a peaceful church," said Mr. Bryce, who flew to Wisconsin from the church's headquarters in North Carolina on Sunday to counsel local church members.

more

[MaineDem]

2. Gee, do you think...?

Imagine religion as a motive at a church service!

I'm sorry, this just seems so obvious to me.

[NNN0LHI]

3. The "church" was trying to blame it on him being depressed

Nothing to see here.Move along now.

Don

[diamond14]

4. Boy Saw Cousin Slain in Wis. Shooting (police say motive: CHURCH)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36423-2005Mar15.html


Police are focusing on Ratzmann's connection to the church for a motive. "We believe that the motive has something to do with the church and the church services more so than any other possible motive," said police Capt. Phil Horter. The Living Church of God said in a statement Tuesday that it is saddened by the shooting and is cooperating with police.

Police say Ratzmann, a computer technician, may have targeted his pastor's family. The pastor, Randy L. Gregory, 51, and his 16-year-old son, James, were killed. His wife, Marjean, 52, was one of the wounded.

Investigators also are scrutinizing a Feb. 26 service that Ratzmann walked out of in apparent anger.


Investigators have apparently ruled out an impending job loss as the gunman's motive. A project Ratzmann was working on for GE Healthcare was to run out March 25, but his contracting agency, Adecco, said it would look for other work for him, Waukesha County District Attorney Paul Bucher said.

"There was nothing sinister. He wasn't being terminated," Bucher said.

[elehhhhna]

5. 'scuse me but job loss is a factor. He was temping.

Weird that the MSM wants to pooh-pooh the potential loss of job/nothing left to lose angle.

And if this was an end-times church, anyway, why the big rush on his part?

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

16. But if you're a temp...

you're accustomed to having projects end and moving on to something else; it's part and parcel of the world of contract employment. I would say that an impending job loss is probably not a primary motivation here.

Ironic, though, that this particular pastor was preaching the end times.

Doing my best Lenny Briscoe: "Looks like they arrived early.

[elehhhhna]

17. True, Jeff, but

there's no guarantee of another assignment and it's really stressful when a long term gig ends. I ran a very successful staffing co. and most temps walk a financial tightrope without a net.

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

22. Understood...

I worked as a temp for three years late in graduate school and until I got my first "real" job. Worked as a contractor in the engineering and construction for nearly fifteen years after that. So I know that it can be "lay awake at night" stressful, but generally not "shoot everybody full of holes" stressful. At least this guy had a house to live in (my understanding is that he lived in his mother's house) and at least some type of support network.

That being said, people do respond differently to different types of stress. Since he didn't leave a note, we may never know.

[vi5]

6. Has anyone noticed the lack of speculation as far as...

...what it was about the church sermon the previous week or whenver it was that set him off? Every article I've read points out that he was clearly ticked off about a sermon in one of the week's preceeding. Yet they don't ever say what the sermon was about. For some reason I find that suspect that in this case the MSM is refraining from their normal endless speculation.

If I've missed something on this I hope someone let's me know. But every article and piece I've seen on this guy doesn't venture a guess as to what it was that ticked him off so much.

[DBoon]

7. Like the MSM *NEVER* engages in baseless speculation?

I read (here on DU) the sermon had something to do with economic collapse at the End Times. I can easily see how someone struggling to keep employed would be upset by it.

Very odd the MSM doesn't even mention it - or maybe just business as usual. Never want people to think a horrific murder might have been sparked by a politically oriented sermon.

[lasttrip]

10. i read about that also

sermon said something like (paraphrasing) "we must all sacrifice" , "prepare for hard times", "your faith will see you thru" etc. etc.

was it the same church?

[diamond14]

13. the bush* fundie church SCRUBBED their web site...so nobody KNOWS

what the sermon was....some papers referred to a TAPED sermon from the BIG head of the fundie church, roderick meridith.....meridith also has a LONG and sordid past, filled with "accusations" from other fundi-churches about STEALING millions of dollars and other corruption...


THESE PEOPLE ARE BUSH* BASE....these are the bush* fundies FUELING hate all over....

google around for this fundie-church and you'll find LOTS to open your eyes....it's a bush* FUNDIE church...filled with sermons and TV that FUEL HATE against gays, women, muslims, democrats...and LOVE BUSH* and bush* wars....

from their own fundi web site http://www.livingcog.org


fueling hate towards Muslims



fueling hate towards WOMEN



guess? ONLY those who are members of the LIVING CHURCH OF GOD...all others are DAMNED....bush* fundies are SUPERIOR over all others...



fueling hate towards gay/lesbian/trans-gendered people



fueling hate towards Jews...

[Igel]

25. The problem is I don't think their website included

transcripts of the sermons. The site included editorials written in a style dating back to the 1930s (although Meredith only would have picked it up at the feet of his "apostle" in the 1950s), but I didn't see transcripts.

Could be wrong. They do having a streaming video "library", but it ends in Nov. '04.

Usually WWC offspring churches are relatively pro-Jewish, although they're split on whether Israel is important.

[TrogL]

31. Go through some of their pamphlets

Racism, white supremacy, homophobia, anti-Catholic - you name it, it's there.

[oneighty]

8. Good thing he was not a black man.

If he were we would have his life history back to his mother's childhood.

IMHO

180

[Bluzmann57]

9. Too bad it has to be all about religion

This was more like a cult from the sound of it. End Times Church concentrating on the end of the world which they claim is at hand? Thats not a legitimate religion, thats a cult, pure and simple.

[oneighty]

15. The religion part

never entered my mind. But now that you mention it we have some scary religious people right here in my little village. One can see them as a cult with Jesus as their crutch. A similar happening here would not surprise me one bit.

180

[vi5]

18. No offense, but one man's cult...

..is another man's religion. I always get uncomfortable when people attempt to draw a line between the two.

[postulater]

11. I'm curious what psych drugs he was on

Taking psych drugs is a risk factor for suicide.

[elehhhhna]

12. Needing psych drugs is also a factor for suicide.

Please don't start with "the Zoloft made him do it".

[postulater]

14. Sorry, just the facts ma'am

<http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/extract/330/7488/373>

It has to be taken into account if we're are being objective about the situation.

[elehhhhna]

19. We're talking mass murder, here-- pre or post diagnosis, the man

was clearly mentally disturbed.

[postulater]

20. No doubt about that!

[bobthedrummer]

32. They elevate hostility too

in fact quite often they mimic what they are intended for or cause confusion.

There are also horrible side-effects from taking them in combination with others.

[Rainscents]

21. Did you see photo of the guy who shot all those people?

He was nice looking blond, clean cut and clean shaved white male. Since he was white boy... MSM ignored the shooting.

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

23. I hardly think they're "ignoring" it...

but I do find the photo from his website creepy. He doesn't look even the least bit threatening -- could be that nice guy who lives down the street.

[me b zola]

26. Not ignoring it, but

certainly not receiving the same coverage as the Atlanta shootings. And can we even imaginge if people were killed in a church but the shooter was not a christian??

I think the cultish illogical crap that these people are being fed in fundie churches can't not create a split in the psyche of some people. When did christianity go from God is love to God hates??

[Igel]

24. I've been following the story in the NY Times and

LA Times.

If those aren't MSM, I don't know what is.

[Moderator]

27. kick to combine

[emad]

28. Church role in shootings questioned

Strict beliefs could have upset gunman, some members say

By M. Daniel Gibbard and Aamer Madhani, Tribune staff reporters. Tribune staff reporter Lisa Black contributed to this story
Published March 17, 2005


SOUTH MILWAUKEE, Wis. -- After the first wake Wednesday for a victim of the shooting rampage at the Living Church of God prayer service, some current and former members of the small Christian flock said strict traditions could have contributed to setting off the gunman.

Terry Ratzmann, who killed himself after opening fire Saturday, bristled at unwritten rules that prohibited dating non-church members and seemed uncomfortable with recent sermons that said the apocalypse was nearing, said Chandra Frazier, 31, who witnessed the shooting spree in which seven people besides Ratzmann were killed and four were wounded.

Frazier, 31, a congregant from Milwaukee, said Ratzmann recently seemed depressed and had walked out during a sermon last month.

Since the shooting, Frazier said she has wondered if the shootings could have been prevented had Ratzmann, 44, sought help from mental health care workers outside the church, something she said would have been frowned upon by church elders.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chicago/chi-0503170230mar17,1,34416.story?coll=chi-newslocalchicago-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true

[rocktivity]

29. He killed himself to avoid an apocalypse?

Wouldn't God frown upon that?

:shrug:
rocknation

[HereSince1628]

30. The community is in a bit of category crisis about Ratzmann

Getting over this seems to demand being able to put the shooter into a "box" which contains others who go berserk.

The difficulty has been that descriptions of him and his church group have produced conflicting comments.

Frazier, cited in the article, was one of the few church members that approached the media. Her information has contributed to the confusion.

The loner turned out to live with a mother and a sister. And he interacted with others. He gardened...gave away produce to neighbors, and had a website on carnivorous plants.

The guy that was supposedly unemployed was employed as an independent contractor.

Frazier's comments about the church discouraging pyschological help ended up rebutted by the church itself.

[daleo]

33. You mean he didn't read "A Purpose Driven Life".

I thought religion stopped murderers, not created them, according to all the feel good stories after the Atlanta killings.