Reid Says Showdown Imminent in Senate

[Kadie]

Reid Says Showdown Imminent in Senate
By DAVID ESPO, AP Special Correspondent

Monday, May 16, 2005


(05-16) 14:51 PDT WASHINGTON (AP) --


Democratic Leader Harry Reid declared an end Monday to compromise talks with Republican leaders over President Bush's controversial judicial nominees, saying their fate along with the future of long-standing filibuster rules will be settled in a showdown on the Senate floor.


"I've tried to compromise and they want all or nothing, and I can't do that," Reid told reporters after a private meeting with Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn.


With Democrats threatening to block confirmation votes on several of Bush's appeals court nominees, Frist has threatened to change Senate procedures to strip them of their ability to do so. At issue is the filibuster, a parliamentary device that can be defeated only by a majority of 60 votes or higher.


Reid made his comments at the same time a small group of Democrats, who have been meeting with Republicans also eager to avoid a showdown, floated a proposal under which they would clear the way for confirmation of five nominees while scuttling three others.

more...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/05/16/national/w145104D21.DTL

[AlGore-08.com]

1. Hey Harry - - go give Nelson & Pryor this news

Looks like they're on a different page of the playbook...

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=762450&page=1

[stevedeshazer]

9. Rope-a-dope

Harry's got it figured out. He hasn't let us down yet.

This is the ONE thing the Dems will be united on. Period.

And, expect more public pronouncements in the coming hours and days. We're in a totalitarian environment now.

Think Pravda. The Russians learned to read between the lines during the Soviet era. We must do the same. This is a big dance.

[regnaD kciN]

11. It doesn't matter how united the Democrats are on this...

If we don't get at least 6 out of the 55 Republican senators to break with Frist on this, we can be as united as anyone wants and still lose.

:-(

[gratuitous]

12. Except that, under current Senate rules

It requires a 2/3 vote to change the Senate rules. If Haman wants to change that rule, he will need a 2/3 vote.

[KamaAina]

14. You didn't think ol' 9-Lives would let a silly old rule stop him, did you?

Here's how he plans to flout, um, "circumvent" that: He will put up one of the odious judges for a vote as a test case, essentially daring Dems to filibuster. Once they do, he will bring up a spurious "point of order". He will then seek a fair, balanced ruling on the POS, er, point of order from the Presiding Officer -- none other than Dick Cheney (R-PNAC). Shazam! The ruling will be that cat killer Frist needs only 50 votes plus Cheney's to, as truthout put it, "nuke democracy".

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/051305N.shtml

So what is the threat that merits blowing up 200 years of the Senate's right to require more than a bare majority to confirm lifetime judicial nominees? That they might only get 95% of their nominees through? That Republican presidents would end up with just an overwhelming majority of judges already appointed, and not every single one? That someone somewhere might not bend to their will? The only threat they're facing is resistence to their absolute power, but that now seems to be threat enough.

[stevedeshazer]

13. Yeah, I get that

But many here are questioning the Dems themselves, and I don't think Pryor and Nelson will defect.

And there are at least three Republicans who seem likely to defect, maybe more. :)

[AndyTiedye]

23. That is a Cool Cartoon in Your Sig!

[AlGore-08.com]

17. Yeah, it's a big dance, but until it's over, you don't know who's bluffing

Seriously, Reid IS dancing, he's saying "This is the line we won't cross" then "never mind, let me redraw the line"... and he's done it a number of times.

Until the showdown comes, it's too early to say whether Reid is going to stand firm on principle, or whether he is going to decide that he's made his point and will compromise.

Either way, it's a lose lose for the American people. Think about it:

Either:

1. The Dems stand firm and lose the filibuster - - and we get generation worth of pro-corporate, right wing wackadoo rulings from the Federal bench and the Extreme Court

or

2. The Dems compromise and let Smirk appoint anybody he wants to the bench as long as we get to keep the filibuster - - and we get generations worth of pro-corporate, right wing wackadoo rulings from the Federal bench and the Extreme Court

There is no upside to this. None at all.

The filibuster fight MAY - - that's MAY - - get some moderates and GOPers a little less enthusiastic about Frist and the extreme right, but it won't even come close to stopping them.

There are some cracks in their facade, but frankly, they're the same cracks that have been there for five years! Who's dissed the nuke option on their side? McCain, Snowe and Chafee. Same folks who've been throwing us crumbs for five years, but when push comes to shove, they've stood firm with the rest of the elephants.

To quote Churchill: "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."

[stevedeshazer]

24. I don't think your options cover the range of what could happen

Unless you know something I don't.

It's not just 1 or 2.

We'll see. :)

eddited for speling

[renaissanceguy]

2. So I guess Harry did have the strategy

and he was right on. Now for these spineless idiots who love to get raped by the Repugs...we need to give them a nice KICK.


http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.21272075

[AuntiBush]

6. renaissanceguy: Luv your Dem/Finger icon

Would love to bave a t-shirt or bumper sticker like that. Might you know where one can get that or have it made-up?

Really explains how I feel lately.

[renaissanceguy]

26. Click on the link under the pic. n/t

[AuntiBush]

28. Placing Order This Week - Thanks!

And my DU donation...;)

Luv that sticker... give it 5 minutes and every dirty old angry men will be honking and yelling at me.

1 mean guy (I swear he looked like Bolton except in an very old, run-down p/up truck) slammed a shopping cart into my car. He stared at me w/that "looks could kill stare."

And I thought, well, there you go; another sore winner. Imagine, I'm no big brawly guy here - rather just the opposite.

[AuntiBush]

3. Go Reid! & Democrats!

By standing-up for the Fillibuster they are standing up for all of our rights to freedom of speech and our Constitution.

[Massachusetts]

4. You Go Harry!

"I've tried to compromise and they want all or nothing, and I can't do that," Reid told reporters after a private meeting with Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn."

[blondeatlast]

5. Give 'em Hell, Harry!

That's a LEADER talking, there.

Bet they wish they had Daschle back now...

"I believe that we are skating over very thin ice here with regard to the continuity of life in the Senate as we've known it," Sen. Richard Lugar, R-Ind., said over the weekend on CNN. "I'm opposed to trying to eliminate filibusters simply because I think they protect minority rights, whether they're Republicans, Democrats or other people."

[clydefrand]

20. Go ahead, make my day. Do you think we will be able to call

him Dirty Harry some day soon?

I hate the fact that our legislators have to go through this crap to work for what is best for this country.

[Career Prole]

7. I'm behind you all the way, Harry!

Enough talk.

[gratuitous]

8. Haman Frist has been saying he has the votes to kill the filibuster

Let's see if the Senate's actions match his words . . .

[napi21]

10. CNN reports that Frist has or will have the votes.

I have to laugh at that comment. I'm guessing he doesn't have the votes and he's hoping they can put on enough presssure and "will have" them.

The scary thing is that I stayed up all night and watched how they pressured people to finally pass the drug bill. I question if ANY member of the Senate is strong enough to withstand that!

[AlGore-08.com]

15. MoveOn says only 3 GOPers have said the filibuster should be kept

And we need at least 3 more of them to turn away from the Dark Side.

So as long as Frist says he has the votes, is just as long as we need to be fighting this.

[newblewtoo]

19. BRAC EFFECT ?

Chaffee Snow and Lieberman are all up for re election. There are major bases in their districts. How nice...... :~(

[umtalal]

25. He is bluffing as is in poker. "When one doesn't have the strong cards

they bluff by acting like they have the number", Chris Ferguson the poker world champign of 2000 said in a recent interview.

[Dover]

16. Just Received this from MOVEON.ORG......how to take action.

Reports say that this week the fringe Republican leadership plans to make its final move in the battle over judicial nominees -- they will change the rules to crush dissent in the Senate and throw out the principle of a fair and independent judiciary.

We have a tough leader in the Senate with Harry Reid. He has kept Democrats together and worked with moderate Republicans trying to get their leadership to step back from the brink.

But he can't win this fight alone. Every one of us will have to get the Democratic message out -- to our neighbors, in our local press, and, most importantly, to our Senators.

To do that, you'll need the very latest information. So please join a conference call briefing with Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid this Wednesday, May 18, at 11:45 a.m. Eastern time (8:45 a.m. Pacific).

http://www.democrats.org/briefingcall

Senator Reid will give us the latest on our strategy, the status of Republicans ready to abandon GOP Leader Bill Frist's sinking ship, and what we can do to help. He'll also take your questions.

The day of the briefing, Wednesday, may be the day when this all comes to a head. What can you do until then?

Get the facts. Last week the hundreds of thousands of you who signed the petition to stop the abuse of power in the Senate had an exclusive briefing with Senator Ted Kennedy. He laid out what's at stake and the potential consequences if the GOP keeps pursuing this dangerous, unpopular course. You can hear a recording of that briefing here (in streaming MP3 format):

http://www.democrats.org/kennedybriefing
Contact your Senators. Make sure the Democrats know that you stand with them, and let the Republicans know that you (and a majority of Americans) don't support the GOP leadership's attack on democracy. Hearing from you makes a difference, especially with those Republicans who are wavering. You can get your Senator's contact information here:

http://www.democrats.org/officials
What's happening in the Senate will affect every issue and every American. If the far-right fringe succeeds in changing the rules, they will be able to ram through an extremist Supreme Court nominee as soon as this year.

If you've heard about this battle in the news or discussed it with someone you know, please join Senator Reid for this call to get the latest. We have to fight together -- and together we can win.

Thank you,
Tom McMahon
Executive Director
Democratic National Committee

P. S. Senators are seeing up close that when Republican Leader Bill Frist can't win, he tries to change the rules. You can see for yourself by taking him on in a game of tic-tac-toe:

http://www.democrats.org/changingtherules

[UpInArms]

18. here's what my GOPig sent me a few minutes ago

(and if you are wondering who he is - this Talent - bought off POS from Missouri)

America is divided about a lot of things, and these divisions
also exist in the legal community. I have strong views myself
about many of the issues you mentioned in your letter. It sounds as
if you are on the left of the political spectrum and that we would
therefore disagree. But we should both be able to accept that the
other's views are representative of a broad section of American
political and legal thought. On that basis I would cheerfully vote
to confirm a good lawyer who had your opinions and was
nominated to the federal bench. So the issue here is less the
qualifications of the nominees you mention, but whether those on
the left wing are still rallying to concede, as heretofore they always
have, that those on the other side of the spectrum may be permitted
to serve in the Federal Judiciary.

[necso]

21. The neocons are rarely (if ever)

serious about making deals (now that they are thoroughly entrenched in power, anyway). They consistently demonstrate this by how they treat "negotiations" (or "diplomacy") in general: starting off by offering completely unacceptable terms (and often insulting ones) and relying on threats to ensure acceptance. And even if their terms are accepted, the neocons will often just demand tougher ones -- or dismiss total capitulation as non-compliance. But the neocons expect their terms to be rejected -- these terms are so constructed that refusal is the only reasonable option available to their opponents. As for any real negotiating, fuggedaboutit -- the neocons (virtually) never budge in any substantial way from their original terms -- except to come up with even worse ones.

But at the same time, the neocons usually manage to extract maximum mileage from their sham negotiations, by relentlessly spinning their "efforts" as being sincere. And, adding insult to injury, they also insist on characterizing all their opponents' attempts at real negotiation as bad faith, insincerity and deception (this amounts to projecting the neocons' own acts, intentions and motivations onto their opponents). But the really ugly part is that this openly transparent ploy (and many of the other ploys that the neocons routinely use) works time and time again to fool the gullible public into believing neocon deceptions.

And further, even if the neocons seem to agree to some "deal" (any such "deal" will always involve forcing the other side basically to capitulate), the neocons cannot be trusted to keep their part of a bargain. For the neocons have nothing but scorn and contempt (privately, at least) for those who cave in to threats, and each such incident adds to these feelings -- and to the neocons' belief in their own superiority -- and in the superiority of their unscrupulous methods.

And this isn't just about the filibuster -- it's about overturning the rule of law (legislative procedure is the basis for creating law and is therefore a fundamental part of the legislative process and of the rule of law). And it's about the neocons pissing on the Constitution (as it has been historically and traditionally practiced) as their inherent right as victors enjoying the "spoils of war".

Destroying the filibuster, and removing this important protection against excesses (etc) by a group holding a small advantage in the Senate, is to politicize the Senate to an unprecedented degree -- and to destroy the very concept of how (and the basis on which) the Senate operates, while trying to preserve the outward forms as a mask of normalcy and respectability to cover ongoing neocon crimes. (This is, in the more abstract, a common enough strategy for them -- and it's what they've done to conservatism -- and to the Republican Party.)

Fuck 'em. The clock is ticking and throwdown time is a'coming (soon enough, anyway).

So let's see who will stand up with us for the rule of law -- and who will stand against it... And let this (possibly) oncoming event demonstrate the neocons' complete contempt for conserving our proud, democratic heritage and traditions -- and let it expose these monsters for what they are: traitors and extremists, who have no place in the company of decent men and patriots, much less lording it over them.

It's (looks to be) high noon (for our democracy). Make your play, dirtbags. We aren't running this time.

"I do not know what fate awaits me,
I only know I must be brave."

[lovuian]

22. finally the Democrats WAKE UP this is WAR!!!

if only they would have grabbed the power the people gave them and took the fillabuster away from Republicans when they were in power and obstructed Clinton... this Neo Con group wants to take over this country judicially executively and Congress too...

[TaleWgnDg]

27. GIVE EM HELL, HARRY -- Reid, that is!

.
GIVE EM HELL, HARRY -- Reid, that is!





.