House backs anti-torture amendment

[cal04]

The House of Representatives on Wednesday gave overwhelming support to a measure requiring the humane treatment of prisoners in U.S. custody, piling pressure on President George W. Bush to agree to put into law a ban on the torture of detainees. The House voted 308-122 to instruct negotiators working on a final version of a defense spending bill to accept an amendment pushed by Arizona Republican Sen. John McCain that would bar the cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment of military prisoners. Although the House motion was not binding, it should boost the clout of McCain, who was locked in talks with the White House on a final version of his amendment.

"Torture scars not only its subject, it scars those who perpetrate it and those who are witnesses to it," said Rep. John Murtha, a Pennsylvania Democrat, who pushed for the House vote. Two hundred Democrats and 107 Republicans voted for Murtha's motion. In a brief debate on the measure, Republican Rep. Bill Young of Florida, who is guiding the defense spending bill, said it was "important that we make it very clear that we are opposed to the use of torture, period."

But Young said he was "offended" by provisions in the amendment that he said would give terrorists constitutional protections enjoyed by U.S. citizens. The administration has been hammered by scandal over the sexual and physical abuse of detainees by U.S. soldiers at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, harsh interrogations at U.S. facilities at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and in Afghanistan, and reports that the CIA has run secret prisons abroad to hold terrorism suspects.

While saying the United States does not engage in torture, the White House opposed McCain's amendment, contending that putting anti-torture rules into law would hamper interrogators' ability to obtain information from prisoners by making them less fearful. The administration has backed off trying to kill the amendment or getting a broad exemption for the CIA, but it is seeking some protections from prosecution for interrogators accused of violating it. McCain contends that would undermine his amendment. "We will not grant immunity. There will be no immunity for anyone," he said. His amendment swept the Senate 90-9.

http://today.reuters.com/News/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2005-12-15T014316Z_01_SPI505832_RTRUKOC_0_US-SECURITY-TORTURE-CONGRESS.xml

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/14/AR2005121402045.html

[meow2u3]

1. Anti-torture bill passed with veto-proof majorities

in both houses.

Let's see Bush try to veto this bill; see how far he gets.

[NYC Liberal]

5. Bush and/or his advisors are complete morons if they actually veto it.

It will be his only veto and it'll be overridden.

[smartvoter]

2. This puts the WH in the hot seat. nt

[journalist3072]

3. I truly find it hard to believe

That we are having to debate torture in this country.

This is NOT my country. In my country, we do not have to debate torture, because we used to recognize that torture solves nothing.

Is this my country anymore?

[madeline_con]

4. Thanks for the info...

I need to email this Young fellow and tell him what a disappointing jerk he is.

EDIT: My email:

Mr. Young:

I was dismayed to read today that you have some decidedly un-American views where the torture amendment is concerned. According to a Reuters news article, you were " "offended" by provisions in the amendment that he said would give terrorists constitutional protections enjoyed by U.S. citizens."

Have you lost your perspective completely? What happened to the United States as a beacon of freedom and human rights?

Donald Rumsfeld had a fit about the Geneva Conventions when Jessica Lynch was captured in Iraq, but certain members of the GOP would throw those conventions out the window where non-citizens are concerned. These people have not been convicted of any crime.

Shame on you and those like you who'd abandon the very principles our country was founded on!

Sincerely,

[gratuitous]

6. Yeah, I don't understand Young being offended

If constitutional rights aren't guaranteed for everybody, then they're guaranteed for nobody. That is, how do you determine beforehand that someone is a "terrorist" (whatever in hell that might mean today, tomorrow or five years from now) and therefore not entitled to rights? As we've seen in the last five years, the Bush administration is not particularly adept at sussing things out, even when ample evidence is staring them right in the face.

[Charlie Brown]

7. Roll Call

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2005/roll630.xml

[Up2Late]

10. Thanks for finding that, wow 121 Republicans that think Torture should...

...be kept as an option.

So who is this Marshall-D? Was he planning to retire, because he's dead to us.

[Kagemusha]

8. Young is offended that these people are human beings

and as such have inalienable rights that the US guarantees not only its citizens, but all aliens under its jurisdiction, and promotes across the world.

Except in detainee camps which despite being run by US personnel are not 'its jurisdiction' for purposes of treating human beings like human beings.

[recovering democrat]

9. Thank the "aye" Representatives

That 122 congress persons support torture offends me. Even though I am glad this passed with the vote it did, I keep trying to figure out what is in the minds of the idiots who vote "nay"!

Please write your congressperson and thank him or her for supporting this provision if they did. They need to know this matters to us.

[HuffleClaw]

11. so...

now its bush's turn to weigh in? surely he won't veto it?

[B3Nut]

12. Hold on a second...

"While saying the United States does not engage in torture, the White House opposed McCain's amendment, contending that putting anti-torture rules into law would hamper interrogators' ability to obtain information from prisoners by making them less fearful."

Okay...so we don't engage in torture, but an anti-torture law would hamper investigations by making them less fearful? Why would they be fearful if it wasn't already known that we *do* in fact use torture, stooping ourselves to the level of those we used to soundly condemn? :wtf:

I want my country back, dammit! :grr:

Todd in Beerbratistan