Apple sued over potential hearing loss from iPods

[benburch]

http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/2/2/business/20060202121951&sec=business

Apple sued over potential hearing loss from iPods

SAN FRANCISCO: A Louisiana man claims in a lawsuit that Apple's iPod music player can cause hearing loss in people who use it.

Apple has sold more than 42 million of the devices since they went on sale in 2001, including 14 million in the fourth quarter last year.

The devices can produce sounds of more than 115 decibels, a volume that can damage the hearing of a person exposed to the sound for more than 28 seconds per day, according to the complaint.

<SNIP>

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Okay now... Seems to me every portable audio device I have ever seen in the last decade has a warning not to play it too loud.

Is this ACTUALLY one of those "frivolous lawsuits" the GOP keeps carping about???

[henslee]

1. I've been watching idiots blast their ears with music since the Walkman.

I did it once when Tommy was released -- putting my head between two speakes and cranking it. That was enough for me.

[foo_bar]

7. Tommy can you hear me?

</had to be said>

[henslee]

10. Ouch.

[DS1]

2. Bud-style earphones should be outlawed

but that being said, someone's just looking to cash in on Apple's success.

[Catch22Dem]

6. Why?

If used properly they sound great, and aren't a threat to your hearing.

[DS1]

19. I think they sound like crap, and are capable of some very serious

ear damage - even if it's someone accidentally slipping the volume knob briefly.

[mrbassman03]

46. yes, but...

Even if they sound like crap, every goddamn headphone can cause hearing loss...

[LifeDuringWartime]

67. all of them?

etymotic's in-ear monitors can block out up to around 40 dB just by being in your ears. since you cant hear much going on around you, the volume doesn't have to be up as loud.

[NashVegas]

3. He's Just Being Pro-Active, Is All

Some anti-gun lawsuits have been dismissed on the grounds that the guns were doing exactly what they were intended to do. One could make a similar argument here.


If this guy hadn't already tried going a more conciliatory route with a letter-writing campaign or some such, I'd throw his ass out of court if I were a judge.


Manufacturers will continue to make audio products louder than they need to as long as there are idiots who will buy them.

[Mythsaje]

4. To answer your last question...

YES!

Sorry, but crap like this just feeds the beast. People CHOOSE to listen to music at too high of volume and that's the way it goes. Every portable music player I've ever seen includes a warning sticker regarding this very fact.

[northzax]

49. there is no sticker on the iPod

and I'm on my fourth, so I've seen the gamut. It probably says something in the manual, but since it's only an electronic manual, who bothers to read it?

not a problem though, for me. Look, idiots, listening to loud noises can make you lose your hearing. staring at bright lights can make you go blind. welcome to reality.

[Atman]

55. There is a message in the Quick Start guide.

Apple makes the disclaimer, too.

[Mythsaje]

69. I use mine for audio books, not music...

But it does seem pretty obvious to me.

[Trillo]

5. Sorry, I don't have an iPod,

do they have a volume control?

[Catch22Dem]

8. Yup (n/t)

[NYdemocrat089]

59. Yes, they do.

[Rigby Reardon]

61. You know. I dont know

I play mine throught the radio

[LeftyMom]

9. That's so stupid.

I know turning up my ipod (and my aftermarket headphones with extra bass) is a bad idea, the manual says it's a bad idea. Any damage I do to my hearing is nobody's fault but my own.

[neoblues]

11. Other potential product abuse lawsuits?

How about Ice Cream (or any of the thousands of high calorie foods) that warns that consuming several gallons per day could be associated with weight gain or even stomach distress?

[AZBlue]

56. I'm suing the sun - I left my sunglasses at home & the bright light hurt

my eyes this morning.

[Psephos]

71. LOL

But maybe you *could* sue Ray-Ban if you watch a solar eclipse while wearing your sunglasses, and scorch your retinas.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

[bullimiami]

12. what?

cant hear you, ears ringing too loud.

[politicat]

13. The only thing I can think of....

When the iPod was developed, it was developed to have a greater range of sound volume than most walkmans/portable CD players at the request of Steve Jobs, specifically for the hard of hearing (because he is hard of hearing.) I read an article about the development a couple of years ago (probably in Wired; I used to have a subscription).

That said, it also has a better low end volume control than most personal music devices do, and if you're dumb enough to play it like you're in Artillery, then your need for Miracle Ears later on is Not Apple's Fault. (And if you get that reference, you're at least as old as I am....)

[KDLarsen]

32. Damn, didn't know that..

I've been hard of hearing since I was 3, and I usually don't buy mp3 players since I need to turn it quite a bit up - and most of them just don't go far enough. Guess I should get an iPod now then :)

[azureblue]

38. I have a major loss

From -40 db to 110db and I can hear my iPod very well with the stock earbuds. And it still has some headroom left.

[BiggJawn]

14. So much for personal responsibility....

Bet the plaintif thinks a buck a pod royalty would be fair and equitable...

[Atman]

15. Shit, I can't make my iPod play LOUD enough!

And my hearing is excellent. The only disappointment I have with my iPod is that the Apple earbuds sound like mini tin-cans, and the iPod itself doesn't play anywhere near loud enough. I turn it almost all the way up when I snowboard (snowboarding isn't loud, I just have to turn it up to get any decent sound at all). In fact, I was out looking for some new aftermarket headphones for it today, with deeper bass response. Maybe I have something set wrong someplace, but I promise no one is going to go deaf listening to my iPod!

[benburch]

16. What model?

I'm betting they differ.

I have a non-Apple flash based player that was cheap, and did what I wanted... I don't need more than 256 MB of the spoken word audio I use as that is dozens of hours.

[Atman]

17. 20gb click wheel

nt

[driver8]

22. No offense, but why do you need to listen to music while

you are snowboarding? Do you know how dangerous that is?

I have been skiing all of my life, and it is hard enough avoiding people on the slopes without trying to ski around people that cannot hear you coming.

[Atman]

37. Well...

First of all, the Apple buds are pass-through. They don't filter out any background noise. When snowboarding, I keep the volume low. It is more like the radio at the office...always on, you can focus in on a song you like if you notice it, but otherwise it is mostly a "soundtrack" playing in the background. I can carry on conversations with others on the lift, and talk people on the mountain. I'm no fool. Well, not much of one.

Also, and I'm afraid there is no way of saying this without sounding kinda like a tool, so I'll just say it...I very rarely get passed on the way down the mountain. I am usually the passer.

[driver8]

63. Ok -- that makes sense. I haven't tried the iPod headphones so

I wasn't aware that you could still carry on a conversation.

I just know that there are enough dipshits on the slopes that I don't want to have to worry about people that cannot hear me coming. I guess these new headsets are not like the walkmans of the past!!

Thanks for the response.

[mrbassman03]

53. I listen to music while skiing as well...

When in backcountry, the danger of hitting other riders is nonexistent, and it really helps to keep me alert and energized. However, I invested in a pair of Shure e3cs, with the tri-flange tips to stay in a bit better. They knock out all background noise and have an incredible frequency response.

[LeftyMom]

25. Yeah, the apple earbuds suck

I just got a pair of these the other day and the sound is a million times better. The bass is very nice and not tinny, muffled or muddy, but the rest of the sound quality is nice, too. Speaking voices are much easier to understand thean they were with the stock headphones.

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3691559

[wtmusic]

27. Um, have your hearing checked anyway

you might be in for a surprise

[mrbassman03]

47. get some Shure e3cs...

Block out all sound outside... I use them for skiing, they work great.

[Atman]

58. But...I thought outside sound was GOOD when riding!

I like that I can hear the sound of the snow under my board, and the calls of other riders/skiers (rare as that may be). I'm not looking for louder, necessarily, I'm looking for better freq response. The earbuds have NO bass, and tinny trebs. But I don't want to block out all the sounds I should be hearing to be a safe rider.

[phylny]

64. outside sounds are essential

I always tell my kids (and others) that if they can't hear me talking, the music in their ears is too loud.

Once the hair cells in your ears are damaged, there's no turning back. Here's one article from the WSJ:

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB113685799723842312-k1vRbQZxQsaLK8H6pp_RLPJj8Zw_20070109.html?mod=tff_main_tff_top

Anyone who thinks they get poor sound out of earbuds will be sorely disappointed at the quality of sound from hearing aids.

[mvd]

18. I use big, padded earphones

Sounds like that is helping me, according to the article.

[kedrys]

20. They're even louder with Sony's tiny Eartopia earbuds

And as far as I'm concerned, it's a very fine thing. And 100% my fault.

[PVK]

21. This just in: Coffee can scald and cars can travel at killer speeds.

People really need to learn how to be more careful and stop blaming others for their lack of caution.

[Ready4Change]

23. Better buy dull knives. Drive 2 miles an hour.

Moron can't use the volume adjustment?

[wordpix2]

24. sounds frivolous to me

[darkism]

26. The compression is probably more dangerous than the volume

What you can't hear can't hurt you...can it?

I'd like to see a study on the effects of psychoacoustic compression models on human hearing and perception. MP3 and other "lossy" compression schemes essentially "exploit" one's senses by removing information that, while not necessarily audible, is still perceived. I know when I listen to MP3s compared to the original CD, even if I can't always tell the difference, I can still "feel" something wrong with the MP3.

Hence why I've switched to FLAC. It's totally lossless, so ripped music sounds identical to the original disc. It's also perfect for backup, since one can rip their collection to FLAC files and then burn a perfect copy down the road should the original ever be lost or destroyed.

And it won't mess with your ears. :D

[publius_jr]

28. Aye

A wise man, you are. I just wish they'd (whoever they are) allow rips from 24-bit/high-frequency DVD-Audio/SACD, which we could FLAC. Even the venerable CD is noticably lossy.

[Atman]

40. iPod is not an MP3 player

This is a very common misconception. Apple's AAC files are not MP3s. AAC files are not lossless, but damned close to it, especially when compared to MP3s. There is a noticable sound difference. Also, it your choice, but you can change the import setting in iTunes to rip in several formats, including a couple of lossless options.

[mrbassman03]

52. Yes it is.

First of all... the iPod IS an mp3 player. It ALSO happens to play AAC files, which are nowhere close to lossless. FLAC, SNH, and Apple Lossless are lossless formats, AAC is not even close. The thing that determines the sound quality is bitrate, and a good mp3 encoder, such as LAME, will kick the crap out of Apple's AAC encoder.

[Atman]

54. No, its an AAC player which HAPPENS to play MP3s.

Sheesh.

Sure it plays MP3s. But if you use Apple's iTunes service, you're not buying MP3's, you're buying AACs which can't be used on MP3 players. The iPod plays MP3s, but my stereo receiver also has a tuner...that doesn't make it a radio. You can (and probably should) rip your own CD's in as AAC or Apple Lossless files for better sound. Or set a high bitrate. But, I also have a RIO 500, purchased before my iPod. It is an MP3 player. It was designed for MP3's and plays ONLY MP3s. It's an MP3 player. The iPod is more of a multimedia players that also plays MP3s. In fact, when I travel, I dump the photos from my digital camera directly onto the iPod. Saves a bunch on media cards, and you don't need a computer to do it.

But, if you're only using the iPod for MP3s, you're wasting your money. You could save a lot of money buying a cheap PC MP3 player, like an iRiver or something like that.

Oh, and the iPod is a portable HD. You can install a backup copy of your computer's OS on it, and boot from it should your computer crash. Or if you want to boot up another Mac with your own system. Try that with your "MP3 player."

[mrbassman03]

51. Ummmm... what?

Even if it sounds like crap, the decibel level is what is going to hurt your ears, not the compression.

[Catch22Dem]

70. Apple Lossless is also...well...lossless.

But if you have limited storage, lossless ain't gonna cut it.

[pinniped]

29. The article claims this idiot's a man, how the hell did he make it to...

at least 18?

This turd wants money from Apple but the lawsuit doesn't say whether or not this turd allegedly suffered hearing loss from this evil device.

This piece of shit's piece of shit lawyer should be made to pay the Apple's fees when this shit gets tossed.

[rpannier]

30. Then don't buy an f**king ipod

Problem solved.

[SoCalDem]

31. DUH !!

Lots of 60's rockers and their proteges are hearing impaired.. the ones who still have some hearing, now wear earplugs..

[leftofthedial]

33. HUH?

WHAT?

DID YOU SAY SOMETHING?

YOU'LL HAVE TO SPEAK UP!

[Paulie]

34. The iPod has a "Sound Check"

A setting that doesn't allow it to play loud enough to hurt your hearing. It's under "Settings".

[Atman]

39. Actually, SoundCheck is a leveler

It doesn't limit the volume. What it does is analyze your entire library and then adjust the volume of each song so they all play at the same relative volume. IOW, one CD you rip might be heavy metal. The next one a classical piece. SoundCheck with average out their volumes and make the heavy metal softer and the classical louder. It is annoying as hell, imho, especially if you have a wide variety of music styles on your iPod.

Here's a quick primer on SoundCheck

[Moloch]

35. oh waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Nothing is my fault. I don't have to take responsibility for anything.

Don't turn it up so loud, you fucking idiot. (the guy that's suing, not the original poster)

Walkmans and Discmans can cause hearing loss and we've known about that forever. Why not iPODs?

People aren't this dumb, he's just trying to make some money.

[Atman]

41. BINGO!

"People aren't this dumb, he's just trying to make some money."

Apple has been all over the news the last few weeks re: it's insane profitablity. Stock is soaring. They're swimming in cash, riding a wave of popularity. Perfect time to strike and hope for a settlement. This guy suing is just another opportunistic American fuckhead.

[Endangered Specie]

57. I have to disagree

people ARE that dumb!

[sendero]

36. Another idiot...

... hoping to cash in on his own stupidity.

Hey, it's the American way :)

[Bridget Burke]

42. When someone on the bus is listening to a sound system....

And I can hear the beat distinctly, from several seats away--they've got it TOO LOUD! (The technical details of the setup don't matter--but, yes, they've got headphones--or some more newfangled device.) Only slightly annoying to me, but it can't be doing their hearing any good.

& I've got a bit of tinnitus from my misspent youth.

[rocktivity]

75. Some people are ridiculous about that

There was a guy at work who would listen to music through headphones, and I'd be able to hear it sitting two cubicles away! And more than once, I've heard a car's sound system while in my second floor apartment!

x(
rocknation

[Julius Civitatus]

43. The Apple earbuds are truly horrible. I wouldn't be surprised

if people are experiencing hearing loss from using the crappy earbuds that Apple encloses with their iPods. Truly, they sound like an old 1970s transistor radio. The sound they produce is all middles, no bass at all, and scratchy highs. And the middles sound horribly strident too!

I own an iPod, and ditched the stock earbuds within a week of usage. It was literally painful to use those things.

I strongly recommend to upgrade to a good quality headphone from a reliable brand. Here are some affordable suggestions:

- SONY EX71 (in-ear monitor)
- Sennheiser PX100 (classic headband)
- Koss Porta-Pro (classic headband)
- Sennheiser HD 201 (closed headphones)

These are very affordable alternatives that produce high quality, balanced sound with your iPod or any other media player.

Ditch the crappy Apple earbuds that come with your iPod. Those things are cheaply made, horribly sounding earphones that detract from the sound your media player can produce

It's time for Apple to include better quality cans with their machines.

[Atman]

44. I shopped for some yesterday

But was daunted...Sony had a nice pair of "performance" earbuds with a 6-23,000hz range, for about $45 at Best Buyers Remorse. But Koss had a similar pair, with form-fitting soft ear pads, for just $15.99, with a range of 10-20,000hz. But both the Sony and Koss buds were in-ear. They block out background sound (which I also assume is part of what boosts the base freq), which is something I don't want for snowboarding.

As for Apple producing better quality cans...I often think Apple does this shit intentionally to give their vendors some accessories to sell. Everything else about the iPod is so perfect, who designed those shitty earbuds? They do this with all their products. It always seems there is one thing with any new Apple purchase which must be replaced or augmented, whether its the mouse with your new computer, or the earbuds with your iPod. If everything was perfect out of the box, there'd be no Apple accessories in the stores, which would perpetuation the perception among the public that there are no accessories (or software) for Apple products.

The crappy buds are by design, I think. Plus, I believe Apple even sells a high-dynamic range "pro" model ear buds for the iPod, at $39. I'd bet Sony makes them.

[Javaman]

45. So does that mean I can sue all those bands...

that I went to see as a kid that played way to loud and resulted in partical hearing loss for me and my generation???

Simple solution for this boob, turn it down. If you absolutely must listen to Wham at 115 decibels, then there is something wrong with him.

[lumpy]

48. Oh for Pete's sake

nt

[DainBramaged]

50. WHAT

[transeo]

60. So I can sue a car driver because he could potentially run me over?

This is total B.S. Just don't turn it up that loud! A lot of things can cause harm - knives are sharp and can cut you, cars can hit you on the street, etc. Shall we sue every company on earth because their product can cause harm if used inappropriately?

[newscott]

62. I've had tinitus since a Bruce Springsteen concert in 1992

Should I sue?

Of course, then I'd have to also sue the Ramones, the Clash, Tom Petty, the Violent Femmes.... you get the picture.

[The Governor]

65. These guys (attorneys) are just begging for another round of tort reform.

[Geo55]

66. Jeeezzzus H. on a trailer hitch

Ya know , I hate Bushco when they bring up this tort reform crap...but damn it !
Are we a society of children ?
Maybe this idiot ought to sue his creator for giving him ears.

[Overseas]

68. I am more disturbed that the suit is being publicized--

It serves up the right wing stereotype-- that those naughty little people are bringing so many horribly frivolous lawsuits against our honorable corporations that the legal system needs drastic reform to keep that dumb riff raff in line !!

[0007]

72. My son now wears hearing aids.

[rocktivity]

73. Given that Apple isn't a exactly friend of the GOP,

you may very well be right, Benburch.

Ipods (as well as boom boxes and portable cassete/CD players) DO have volume knobs, don't they?

:headbang:
rocknation

[truthisfreedom]

74. what happened with those automatic volume limiting switches that Sony

used to have on everything? the ones that kept the output volume to safe levels no matter what the program material was?

why didn't Apple build this in, in a society where people both indulge to excess and then sue the manufacturer for providing the means?

[6th Borough]

76. AVLS. It's still present on just about any portable Sony device. /EOM