Pro-gun actvist blasts state Senate GOP; offers to help Dems

[Judi Lynn]

Pro-gun actvist blasts state Senate GOP; offers to help Dems
By MARC HUMBERT
AP Political Writer

February 6, 2006, 1:40 PM EST


ALBANY, N.Y. -- A longtime pro-gun activist said Monday he is fed up with the state Senate's Republican majority and is willing to help Democrats win the few seats needed to wrest control of the chamber from the GOP.

"You are no longer the lesser of two evils," wrote Gerald Preiser in an e-mail to state Senate Majority Leader Joseph Bruno and other Senate Republicans. Preiser gave a copy of the e-mail to The Associated Press.

A top Bruno aide dismissed Preiser's e-mail, saying he doesn't represent the interests of legitimate gun owners and "lives in New Jersey."

Preiser' move came a day after The New York Times, quoting unidentified aides to New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, reported the Republican mayor is considering helping a Democratic City Council member take on a veteran GOP state senator from Queens this year.
(snip/...)

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny--senategop0206feb06,0,7096524.story?coll=ny-region-apnewyork

[fasttense]

1. I have been a rabid gun control supporter for years until...

Until I realized that bush thinks he is the king. I don't know what this crazy man will do next and he has the military, Secret Service, FBI and NSA at his beck and call. I now believe that the NRA might be right about an armed populace being more difficult to subjugate.

[Endangered Specie]

3. I still don't like the NRA

not just because of the usual republican propoganda spouting, but they have a tendency to not mind trade laws which heavily limit access to (generally cheaper and better made) foreign guns, instead trying to get us to buy expensive American stuff (which is no suprise considering how much the gun companies here pay to them). A little quid-pro-quo.

[sendero]

5. It is quite possible...

... to be pro-gun and anti-NRA. I am, for example :)

[brentspeak]

9. Me, as well

[Blue_Tires]

33. add one more to the ranks

[Odin2005]

11. Same here.

Regulating guns does not equal banning them.

[AlCzervik]

21. My Dad owns many guns and he's never belonged to the NRA, he can't stand

them.

[b5d]

28. If I got shocked anymore, I would be shocked

Protectionism on guns totally goes against what the NRA is supposed to stand for - unless you buy that other explanation.

[Vidar]

24. I'm in the same position.

[Endangered Specie]

2. Ah yes, people are beginning to cut through the propoganda...

With any luck more people will realize a LOT of Democrats are pro-gun.
Ive noticed alot of people (including myself) change this way too, (havent seen anyone change the opposite way either)

So many people would vote Dem if they didn't (usually mistakenly) believe that Dems would take away all their guns.

[llmart]

4. That was a stupid meme that Repugs laid on the Dems......

"Oh, look, Clinton's going to come knocking on your door and take all your guns away." Stupid people fell for it just like they fell for the swiftboating of Kerry who actually served in VietNam.

And the NRA is no friend of Dems. They're the idiots who helped put this bozo in office. Remember how they joked about being to operate right out of the White House once * took over?

There is nothing wrong with sensible gun control laws. The NRA doesn't want ANY gun control laws.

[0rganism]

10. Perhaps it will now come around and bite the GOP in the ass

After sowing seeds of discontent with the federal government during the Clinton administration, the NRA will have to work overtime convincing people that the incredibly authoritarian bushistas are going to be any less of a threat to their 2nd amendment rights than they are to the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 14th amendments.

[benEzra]

18. The problem wasn't the NRA, it was ignorant campaign strategists...

That was a stupid meme that Repugs laid on the Dems......

"Oh, look, Clinton's going to come knocking on your door and take all your guns away." Stupid people fell for it just like they fell for the swiftboating of Kerry who actually served in VietNam.

The problem was the idiot staffers who decided that talking up hunting while promising to ban loads of nonhunting guns would be a winning strategy. Well, 4 out of 5 gun owners ARE NOT HUNTERS, and both the 2000 and 2004 campaigns included PROMISES to ban half the guns in our family's gun safe. The Kerry-Edwards ticket lost Edwards' own home state (my state of NC) 45%/55% even as our pro-gun, NRA-endorsed Democratic governor (Mike Easley) WON 55%/45%. The gun issue also helped cost Gore his own home state in 2000, as well as West Virginia, and thereby cost him the election.

Dems can get rid of this meme by taking the time to actually LEARN about Federal and state gun laws, gun-owner demographics, and civilian guns themselves, and insisting campaign strategists and staffers do the same. If they did, maybe campaigns wouldn't fall for crap like the "assault weapon" bait-and-switch, which didn't have a THING to do with military AK-47's and Uzi's, but which did attempt to ban millions of CIVILIAN guns, including ours.

There are a LOT of pro-gun Dems at the state level and many at the Federal level, but the neoprohibitionist zealots like Feinstein tend to grab all the airtime on the issue--and thereby become the de facto voice of the party on the issue unless other Dems speak out.

There is nothing wrong with sensible gun control laws. The NRA doesn't want ANY gun control laws.

Umm....the NRA supports heavy restrictions on all automatic weapons (including military AK-47's and Uzi's), burst-mode weapons, firearms over .50 caliber (except shotguns), short-barreled rifles and shotguns, sound suppressed firearms, disguised firearms (cell phone guns, cane guns), explosives, and ordnance. All of which are current law, BTW.

The NRA helped write the 1986 Federal law banning armor-piercing handgun ammunition, as well as the law banning guns that can't be detected by X-ray equipment.

The NRA supports background checks for purchasing a gun from a dealer, supports the 1968 law that makes it illegal for a criminal to so much as touch a gun or a single round of ammunition; supports the law that allows crime guns to be traced; and has called for more effective enforcement of the laws against gun smuggling, criminal gun possession, and gun misuse.

What gun owners and the NRA oppose is the current attempt to ban civilian pistols and rifles holding over 10 rounds (which have been on the civilian market since the 1860's, BTW), the attempt to ban civilian rifles and shotguns with modern-looking stocks, and so on.

BTW, where did you get your information on what the NRA supports and does not support? Apparently not from the NRA...

My wife and I DON'T HUNT. We own nonhunting-style firearms and we wish to keep them. Is that so bad?


Some thoughts at more length: www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=97165

[stepnw1f]

6. Where Are All Those Pro-Gun Dems on DU?

I figured they'd have something to say about this by now.... hmmmm.

[spotbird]

13. Get a grip

the few Democrats who cared about gun control now own an arsenal to protect themselves from these ruling nuts. Bush is the best thing to happen to the progun movement, and not for the laws he supports or doesn't.

[AX10]

7. Democrats defend the ENTIRE Bill of Rights.

Democrats are PRO-FREEDOM!

[Judi Lynn]

8. No one moves. I've got a gun.

[area51]

14. Everybody run...

... the homecoming queen's got a gun. </song> :evilgrin:

[PatGund]

15. Si!

VIva la Ratolution!!!

[Sgent]

12. Dem's passed

one of the worst laws possible with the "Assault Weapons Ban". It's cost us at least one term as president (probably more), and most likely control of congress.

On top of that, it banned things for looking mean. The things banned themselves were no more dangerous than your average hunting rifle.

[llmart]

16. I hardly think that the assault weapons ban was what put........

* in office. Most people don't pay attention to the nitty gritty of a law like that anyway. Go ahead. Ask the average person on the street what they know about the details of that law and you'll get mostly "I don't have a clue what it entails."

Don't forget that Gore actually won the election and he was another one the NRA vilified with their "he'll come take your guns away" nonsense.

[benEzra]

19. Gun owners paid attention...

I hardly think that the assault weapons ban was what put * in office. Most people don't pay attention to the nitty gritty of a law like that anyway.

Gun owners paid attention...and it mobilized gun owners into political action like no other gun-related issue before or since. Dems weren't the only ones to take the fall--plenty of pro-ban repubs also went down (including Bob Dole). But in 2000, the AWB arguably was a MAJOR factor in Gore's loss of Tennessee and WV, and with those two states, he'd have won; the gun issue also made the Florida election close enough to cause a recount and throw the election into the courts. In 2004, Kerry's cosponsorship of ultra-draconian S.1431 REALLY hurt him among gun owners, as did his statement during the debate that he wouldn't just passively support expanded gun prohibition, he'd actively FIGHT to ban over-10-round civilian guns and rifles with protruding handgrips. Yes, that hurt him immensely.

I actually corresponded with Senator Edwards on this issue during the primaries (he was my senator), and from our correspondence it appears that he had been greatly misled about what the ban covered, and what types of guns we civilians actually own. A sad situation, and in hindsight easily avoidable.

Was the gun issue the only issue in play? Of course not. But without the gun issue, the election would likely have gone the other way in several of the swing states that the 2000 and 2004 tickets lost.

Go ahead. Ask the average person on the street what they know about the details of that law and you'll get mostly "I don't have a clue what it entails."

Except that once the ban passed, it was INEVITABLE that the truth about the law would be hammered home to those whom it affected--mainly law-abiding owners of full-size defensive handguns. But more importantly, the AWB showed law-abiding gun owners that WE were the real target of the gun prohibitionist movement. Rifles of ANY type are rarely used in crimes, so when the gun prohibitionist lobby decided to make banning civilian small-caliber rifles their top legislative priority, it became clear EXACTLY who the prohibitionists were after. Not the criminals. Us.

[AzDar]

17. Until the election was stolen in 2000 and the subsequent gradual

erosion of our Constitutional Rights began, I was one who thought the Second Amendment was 'antiquated'; written in a time when the citizenry was in danger of improper arrest with no warrant, unlawful search and seizure, and punishment without trial under the auspices of King George.
I now see how astute our Founding Fathers truly were in their insistence that we have the right to arm ourselves. I HATED guns...still do, but I am now considering buying one, as King George is at it again.
It may turn out to be true that he is a "uniter..not a divider", as the horror that is his Administration is becoming clear to all people, 'liberals' and (true) 'conservatives' are beginning to see that they have more in common than they knew.

[corporatemedia]

20. The GUN issue cost us the state of West Virginia.

It's no longer Democrat. How much have we lost (and how much will we lose in the future - Bob Byrd?, Jay Rockefeller?) because of that one issue and that one state?

Prior to the 2000 election, I took part in a focus group which viewed ads and gave opinions. The company conducting the "market research" did not say so, but it was obviosuly paid for by the NRA .
It was 2 hours long and paid $50. I made patterns with the check boxes on my answer sheet so my participation was worthless to them, but I still got my money.

The amount of NRA TV and billboard advertising was incredible that year! It didn't turn Pennsylvania but it did turn West Virginia.

We used to be able to count on West Virginia. Now we can still count on them, but unfortunately to vote Repug.

[llmart]

22. Well, one thing I've learned here at DU.......

is that I normally don't post on threads that have anything to do with guns because we have people at DU who think it's the one and only issue that's important. Those people are usually guys who tend to forget that the majority of voters are women and the majority of women don't give two hoots about guns.

You will never convince me that it was the gun issue that gave * the election. The majority of the people voted for Gore and Kerry. That's a fact.

[Jack_DeLeon]

25. Wow nice stereotyping...

Those people are usually guys who tend to forget that the majority of voters are women and the majority of women don't give two hoots about guns.

I know plenty of women who enjoy shooting.

[llmart]

26. Oh, please......

the statistics show that it's mostly men who care about gun ownership. Just because you personally may know "plenty of women who own guns" doesn't mean that plenty of women own guns.

[benEzra]

30. Around 1 in 3 women owns a gun in the USA

my wife is one of them.

[FlaGranny]

35. I own two handguns and

I'm a woman. My cousin, a woman, owns several. I don't really know who else own's a handgun, because I don't usually ask the question.

I'm sure that more men own guns, but women do too. I actually really enjoy shooting. I keep getting after my husband to go to the range. It's fun, once you get over the initial fear of firing, but that usually only takes a few shots.

[corporatemedia]

32. I'm not trying to convince anyone that the gun issue gave ...

President POS the election. I tend to agree with you about the "fact."

What I'm saying is even worse. A state that has been traditionally Democrat is heading towards being solidly Repug. Poor old Bob Byrd had to keep his copy of the constitution in his pocket while he voted for Alito. (Mostly due to the choice issue - another problem in West Virginia.)

The money spent by the NRA in 2000 on TV, Radio, billboards, direct mailing, etc. turned that state, not hacked computers. They play on fear. "Al Gore's gonna take my gun? Fuck him."


What I'm really saying is sometimes we just need to "shut up".

No gun law (if one could even be passed) is going to accomplish what the anti-gun lobby wants.

So we just "shut up".

Do Republicans go on the campaign trail saying, "Our goal is to end Social Security." ???

No, but that is, and has always been, their intention.

They've learned that sometimes the best campaign strategy is to just "shut up".

If we don't learn that tactic then we better start learning to love losing.

Tactics are as important as issues.

[sandnsea]

23. NRA gun propaganda

And Democrats who are buffaloed by it or won't stand up against it. I know plenty of Republicans who carry concealed weapons who support sensible gun regulations. It's just election year hype that local Democrats just don't have the guts to stand up against.

[b5d]

27. They just need to market gun regulations better

Tough on crime. Use actual *gasp* statistics.

[benEzra]

29. Problem is, the anti-gun lobby isn't concerned about the types of guns

used in CRIMES so much as they are the types of guns that American gun owners like to own and shoot...

The #1 gun used in violent crime is the lowly .38/.357 caliber revolver. The only long gun in the Top Ten is the 12-gauge hunting shotgun. The #1 rifle is the lowly .22LR squirrel rifle. And most gun crime is committed by CRIMINALS, not by people who have never had so much as a speeding ticket.

Meanwhile, the anti-gun lobby has spent immense effort and political capital trying to outlaw nontraditional-looking civilian rifles owned by people with squeaky clean records, like my wife and I.

"Packaging" the gun ban du jour is not and has never been the party's problem. The gun ban du jour mentality IS the problem.

If the anti-self-defense lobby put half the effort into enforcing current law against criminal gun trafficking, possession, and use as they have trying to steal guns from our gun safe, they might have done something about criminal gun violence. Maybe I'm jaded, but their legislative priorities show clearly that criminal violence is NOT what they care about...

[dmallind]

31. It is an issue we need to revisit

Guns DEFINITELY cost Dems votes. Gun owners are often very touchy about restrictions. Gun enthusiasts are very often single issue voters just as focused as anti-choice folks.

Trust me on this. I post on a couple of gun owner forums. There are plenty of people pissed off as hell about Shrub and his misadventures. From the Libertarian or form the moderate side they would LOVE a real alternative that would protect their other civil rights, show fiscal restraint, and so on.

But they will not - absolutely will NOT consider an alternative which, fairly or not, is seen as a gun-grabbing one.

This is a ripe issue which could sway enough moderates and disaffected social libertarians away from the Reps. But it's gotta be more than a photoshoot that shows Kerry breaking basic rules of gun safety (I mean sheesh!) in a brand new pressed camo vest. We have to say to the hugely numerous gun owners of America something simple like this - in the party platform and in every campaign speech.

"Law abiding Americans have the right to own firearms for sport, recreation or legitimate self defense. This right is deeply enshrined in our history, our culture and our Constitution. We support that right, and promise that no Democratic administration will confiscate guns or make it illegal for responsible law abiding adults to own and keep weapons for these purposes"

Even the most virulent anti-gun Dem has to know there is no way you can disarm America. There are too many guns and too many easy ways to produce them and ammo. Regardless of what may be largely bluster about cold dead hands it's not armed resistance that makes US disarmament impossible. It is is the social mores where guns for centuries have been part of our national makeup. You can't get rid of them even if you tried. If you did try in any serious way it would keep Dems out of power for decades. Why the hell not embrace pro-gun Dems (and we are legion despite what extremists on BOTH sides claim), embrace the realpolitik of guns in America, and perhaps more importantly embrace the damn hordes of people who would consider voting for Dems if they could keep their guns?

[Firethorn]

34. Pro-Gun views.

First, there's a difference between the NRA and the NRA-ILA. The NRA does not lobby or endorse politicians. They're not allowed to and keep their tax exempt status. They concentrate on spreading safety programs, training courses, assisting in range operations, etc.

The NRA-ILA(National Rifle Association of America, Institute for Legislative Action) is an independant entity that does, indeed, endorse democrats who are pro-gun. However, due to current Democrat leadership, being anti-gun is often a prerequisite for their endorsement and assistance, so being pro-gun can loose you the nomination.

More so than Gore, Kerry made it very easy for the NRA-ILA to paint him as anti-gun. His career as a senator and the subsequent voting record made it very easy. 'He never saw a gun control bill he didn't like'. He even went back to D.C. specifically to vote for the AWB renewal, after missing numerous votes that could have been considered more important. The duck-hunting stunt, performed with a shotgun that would be banned under legislature he was supporting, didn't help.

Opposition to the AWB was a primary goal for the NRA-ILA.

Do you know what gun rights proponents consider 'sensable gun control'?
It's laws designed to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, not to make criminals out of gun owners.
Enhanced sentences for those who use a gun in a commision of a crime? Sure, no problem.
Banning a gun because it has a bayonet lug? Excuse me, I haven't heard of any drive-by bayonetings!
Background check for commercial purchase of a firearm? Certainly, though they'll be able to get one illegally from the black market.
Gun registry: Yeah, those lists have proven real useful for confiscation purposes by tyrannical governments. Makes it a whole lot easier for them to commit genocide.
Requiring a gun lock to be sold with every firearm? I have a safe, personally. Besides, just because it's sold with it doesn't be negligent parents will use it.
Requring a loaded chamber indicator? Won't stop negligent discharges, people unfamiliar with the firearm won't recognize the signal.
Waiting periods? What if the person needs the weapon RIGHT AWAY, due to a stalker or violent ex? It's already been decided that the police aren't required to protect individuals. I already own several guns, what's the use of making me wait?
Banning CCW in schools and other governmental buildings? It's not like we're going to shoot the place up. It's the illegal carriers who do that. What makes them special? Police stations, courts, and prisons have some excuse, but they usually have far more security to compensate.

Present a Pro-Gun Democratic candidate and I'd have a far easier time voting for him or her. Add in fiscal responsability, which I feel is sorely laking in both parties, pro-choice and the respect for our freedoms and I'd be positivly giddy.