Deadly Haiti clash: U.N. peacekeepers fire on protesters. Details soon.

[Roon]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

[cal04]

1. link UN troops open fire on Haiti demonstrators

UN troops open fire on Haiti demonstrators

United Nations peacekeeping troops in Haiti opened fire on demonstrators on Monday near the capital's international airport, leaving many casualties, according to Haitian police and UN sources. Police said at least one person was killed in the incident, which came after barriers were erected and protests grew in Port-au-Prince over the results of last Tuesday's presidential and legislative election.

A UN official, speaking anonymously, said there were "several dozen" people injured. Angry crowds on Monday demanded René Préval be declared president and rejected partial results showing the vote would go to a run-off.

Port-au-Prince was paralysed as a growing throng of demonstrators used rocks, car wrecks and burning tyres to block major avenues. Businesses shut down and some people sought refuge in police stations amid fears of a renewed explosion of violence in the volatile country.

The 9 500-strong UN military and police troops were on high alert. The "stabilisation" force was deployed after the country plunged into chaos two years ago, when president Jean Bertrand Aristide resigned and fled the country.

http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=264125&area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__international_news/

BBC link
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4710174.stm

[redqueen]

3. He resigned? n/t

[LynnTheDem]

9. WTF??! I know our "media" sucks hugely but GEEEEZ!!!

"resigned and fled"?????!!

What part of KIDNAPPED by US forces on bush's orders in 2004 does MSNBC not understand?????!!

Holy fuck.

[redqueen]

22. They just flat-out lie. Didja see the article on Chavez?

It was in the DMN and some magazine.

So many lies... why should anyone take them seriously if they won't even admit the coup happened?

[LynnTheDem]

23. It's just so incredibly blatant!

Dear world;
it's our media...that's why we'r the stupidest most ignorant MFers on the planet.

(the world has been wondering)

[mom cat]

24. It is so easy to resign with a gun pointed at your head.

[redqueen]

28. So I guess we can call all kidnapped kids runaways now?

Lord, how I loathe our whored out media. x(

[mom cat]

33. Don't tell KKKarl

[peacetalksforall]

4. How many decades have the little people of Haiti suffered? I don't

ever do this, but I ask you to say 'your prayer' for all of them.

The world should be ashamed. The latest Papa and Baby Docs are the United States, France, Canada - the World Bank and all associated suck 'em dry and massacre them type organizations.

They want the island - without the way too many poor people.

[Bacchus39]

6. want the island for what?

just curious as to why you think the large nations and international institutions want Haiti.

[Solon]

7. Sugar and Fruit...

Yeah, our country, or it's corporations at least, do actually squeeze blood out of turnips.

[Bacchus39]

10. I think sugar is pretty widely available

as is fruit from other sources. I always thought that the US wanted at least a pretense of stability so that there was not a constant flow of refugees attempting to come to the US.

[Solon]

11. Doesn't matter...

At least in the case of sugar, our corporations have been trying to monopolize ALL trade in it for the past Century or so.

[Judi Lynn]

25. If American Republican Presidents don't want a steady stream of refugees

from Haiti, they will finally meddling in Haitian affairs and allow the people to elect their own leaders.

If they found the nightmares they have endured under U.S. Republican meddling and dominating bearable, they would elect them easily, and U.S. Republican Presidents wouldn't have to machinate.

_Bush handles Haitian refugees just fine: he sends them back after imprisonment, no matter how desperately they beg to escape the blood bath they face upon return.

[Bacchus39]

31. Clinton did too

he switched sides actually. first campaigning to allow Haitian refugees to come to the USand then once he was in office he changed course.

Like the Cuba embargo, the Haitian policy crosses party lines.

[arikara]

12. Sweatshops too

I understand that it all started when Aristede raised the minimum wage and the corporations didn't like that. That's when the US and to my great shame, Canada participated in ousting him.

I do pray for their peace and the president and life of their choice. May they throw these corporate bastards out for good!

[Bacchus39]

13. perhaps sweat shops, although the instability there makes it

difficult for even sweat shop slavers to operate there.

[arikara]

16. The instability is totally created

The situation in Haiti really shows how the corporations have control of our governments. Here's one good article and there's lots more out there:

http://www.counterpunch.org/floyd03102004.html

<snip>No, Aristide did something far worse than stuffing ballots or killing people - he tried to raise the minimum wage, to the princely sum of two dollars a day. This move outraged the American corporations - and their local lackeys - who have for generations used Haiti as a pool of dirt-cheap labor and sky-high profits. It was the last straw for the elitist factions, one of which is actually led by an American citizen and former Reagan-Bush appointee, manufacturing tycoon Andy Apaid.

Apaid was the point man for the rapacious Reagan-Bush "market reform" drive in Haiti. Of course, "reform," in the degraded jargon of the privateers, means exposing even the very means of survival and sustenance to the ravages of powerful corporate interests. For example, the Reagan-Bush plan forced Haiti to lift import tariffs on rice, which had long been a locally-grown staple. Then they flooded Haiti with heavily subsidized American rice, destroying the local market and throwing thousands of self-sufficient farmers out of work. With a now-captive market, the American companies jacked up their prices, spreading ruin and hunger throughout Haitian society.

The jobless farmers provided new fodder for the factories of Apaid and his cronies. Reagan and Bush chipped in by abolishing taxes for American corporations who set up Haitian sweatshops. The result was a precipitous drop in wages - and life expectancy. Aristide's first election in 1990 threatened these cozy arrangements, so he was duly ejected by a military coup, with Bush I's not-so-tacit connivance. <snip>

And this short explanation of why keeping low wages in Haiti is so important to them...

<snip>Phil Knowles, writing here on Nov. 3, expresses a common puzzlement: Wages, it seems to me, are low in 3rd world countries. I've never understood why a US agency would need to put a lot into a campaign for low wages in Haiti, because buyers (clothing, whatever) have many places where low wage workers can be 'used'.

The point this misses is that Haiti, along with the Dominican Republic, is used to provide a wage floor that is effective throughout the Western hemisphere. Had Aristide's proposed wage increase been adopted, wage costs in Haiti would have slightly exceeded that of the D.R. ($.76 per hour in costs after factoring in productivity in Haiti, as opposed to $.72 in the D.R. See NLC report, Appendix D.) In other words, if Haiti is a live option for manufacturers seeking to pay the very lowest wages, then manufacturing there will increase profits not only for those companies directly involved but also for virtually every other manufacturing company in the hemisphere, because of the dampening effect on all wages. <snip>

Peace

[Bacchus39]

19. then the manufacturers would move to the DR or other

places where the wages are low. if Haiti raised the minimum wage then costs to operate in the DR for example would be lower. add to this the DR is quite stable so it is a much more attractive place to set up operations.

Haiti does not have any significant manufacturing. businesses won't operate there because of the political climate. sorry, if there was more than negligible manufacturing businesses in Haiti, your argument would be plausible.

again, I repeat. I believe the US foreign policy in Haiti is based on keeping Haitians out of the US.

[arikara]

20. The last paragraph explains the wage issue

The point this misses is that Haiti, along with the Dominican Republic, is used to provide a wage floor that is effective throughout the Western hemisphere. Had Aristide's proposed wage increase been adopted, wage costs in Haiti would have slightly exceeded that of the D.R. ($.76 per hour in costs after factoring in productivity in Haiti, as opposed to $.72 in the D.R. See NLC report, Appendix D.) In other words, if Haiti is a live option for manufacturers seeking to pay the very lowest wages, then manufacturing there will increase profits not only for those companies directly involved but also for virtually every other manufacturing company in the hemisphere, because of the dampening effect on all wages.

I just don't believe that they'd destabilize a country simply in order to keep immigrants out. If that was the case, they'd be taking on Mexico as well wouldn't they?

Can you supply some links?

[Bacchus39]

21. I'm sorry I wasn't clear.

frankly, I don't believe that the intention is to destabilize. at least a pretense of stabilization would 1) prevent a mass exodus and 2) promote industry within the country. Yes, they could be sweatshops.

nevertheless, in a destabilized Haiti a mass exodus of refugees is possible and industry is NOT.

However, I don't see how a destabilized Haiti is some how good for international corporations. No-one wants to do business there.

If the only factor for corporations is to find the countries with the absolute lowest wage then you would have industry all over Afghanistan and Africa. Fact is, most corporations simply aren't interested in doing business there because of the political situations, corruption, lack of infrastructure.

[Judi Lynn]

26. Your linked article is SUPERB. I intend to reread it and share it, as well

What a pity our own daily media won't stir itself to investigate these adventures in aggression and exploitation undertaken in our names.

[cassandra uprising]

30. "Haiti is the labaroty for suberverse activities"

Amy Goodman has been all over this. Here are some snips with a recent interview with Anthony Fenton

from http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/23/1441204&mode=thread&tid=25

snip

ANTHONY FENTON:
Now, the historical record on the National Endowment for Democracy is very clear, when we look at the work of people like Philip Agee and William Robinson and William Blum, Noam Chomsky and others, and most recently, if we look at the work of attorney and independent journalist, Eva Golinger, who exposed, through Freedom of Information Act requests, the role that the N.E.D. played in attempting to subvert democracy and the revolutionary process that’s unfolding in Venezuela in 2002. The N.E.D. played a crucial role in fomenting the opposition to Hugo Chavez, and they did play a role in the attempted coup against him in April of 2002, and very much the same patterns we have seen develop in Haiti.

On your show, in 2004, you interviewed Max Blumenthal, who wrote an article, an important article for Salon that outlined the role of the International Republican Institute, and when we talk about the N.E.D., we can't talk about them without also talking about the International Republican Institute and the other affiliated organizations. There’s a virtual labyrinth of these organizations that receive funding that’s specifically earmarked for the undermining of any widespread social movements, any rudiments of popular democracy that should manifest, either in Latin America or anywhere in the world.

So, again, this is sort of the premise of what the National Endowment for Democracy really does, and as we look at what they're doing in Haiti – and how I was able to learn about what they’re currently doing in Haiti came about through the process of a first documentary reporting trip to Haiti in September and October of 2005, where we spoke to a number of N.E.D. grantees, Haitian organizations that received funding from the National Endowment for Democracy. I returned to Canada and set about to conduct a series of interviews with N.E.D. and any program officer, in particular, with I.R.I. officials, with in-country officials who are managing several million dollars in U.S.-funded democracy promotion activities, as you said also, that are linked closely to the Haitian elite, to the opposition organizations, such as the Group of 184, the Democratic Convergence. These are the organizations that agitated most strongly for the overthrow of Aristide and that were working with the N.E.D. and the I.R.I. in the years preceding the 2004 coup.

snip

What they’ve also done -- and many Haitian people that I speak to have told me that Haiti is considered the laboratory for these sort of subversive activities on the part of the United States government. And in the context of this experimental process, they’ve hired, for the first time, an in-country program officer, as you mentioned, Régine Alexandre, who was a stringer for the Associated Press and the New York Times, was doubling, moonlighting as an N.E.D. program officer, and the Associated Press severed ties with her as a result.

Now, Fabiola Cordoba also told me that when she was in Haiti in 2002, working for one of the N.E.D.’s affiliated organizations, the National Democratic Institute, she said a lot of lines were being drawn between Haiti and Venezuela, where although 70% of the population supported Aristide, there was a very fragmented opposition. The rest of the 30% was divided between 120 different opposition groups, so the objective of the I.R.I. and the N.E.D. was to consolidate this opposition to build a viable opposition to somehow break the grip that the popular movement in Haiti had on the political environment there. And she said that Chavez – something very similar was happening in Venezuela, and of course, in 2002, the coup d’état happened there on the basis of this sort of analysis, the basis, this fear that the United States has of popular democracy and the need to subvert any attempts at consolidating popular rule and implementing policies that are in the interests of the majority poor in places like Venezuela and Haiti.

[Solon]

14. Good point, cheap labor, perferable below substinence levels...

is perferable to the Multi-Nationals and their Neo-Liberal enablers. All the third world is good for is being the factory floor after all.

[Bacchus39]

15. yeah but there aren't alot of factories in Haiti

I know they used to make all the baseballs there. don't know if they still do. again, the perpetual instability of Haiti makes it extremely difficult for industry to operate there.

[FlaGranny]

32. They don't want the island

as much as they want the island to be run by the leader they WANT it to be run by. In other words, the leader most popular with the citizens of the island, is NOT the leader the US wants. And there's the fact that there is a lot of cheap labor to be had in Haiti and it is very close to the US.

[LynnTheDem]

8. "Aristide resigned..." Say WHAT??? Ya mean KIDNAPPED by US

FORCES and illegally removed?

THAT kind of "resigned & fled"???

Good Gawd...!

[htuttle]

2. Based on what I've been reading this last week...

...I think that somebody is trying to steal the election from Preval and Lavalas. It's been many days since the election, but still no certification nor even announcement of final results other than saying "Preval's lead diminishing". He apparently had over 60% last Friday. As a result, people are getting rather upset (since I'm guessing they think the election is being stolen from them).

[bpilgrim]

17. they didn't go through the trouble of a military coup 4 their man 2 loose

with the M$M sticking to the BS line that 'Aristide resigned and fled the country' i am confident that they won't report on any fraud as well.

peace

[leftchick]

5. (UN) Peacekeepers Fire on Haiti Protesters

PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti - U.N. peacekeepers opened fire Monday on Haitians protesting election results, killing at least one and wounding four, witnesses said as flaming roadblocks paralyzed the capital.

Hundreds of screaming demonstrators elsewhere stormed into an upscale hotel housing an electoral office in the hills above Port-au-Prince and helicopters landed on the roof to evacuate guests.

Associated Press journalists saw the body of a man in the street in the Tabarre neighborhood, a T-shirt bearing the image of leading candidate Rene Preval soaked in blood. Witnesses said Jordanian U.N. peacekeepers opened fire on them, killing two and wounding four. The body of the second victim was not at the scene.

Protesters have alleged the electoral commission is manipulating the vote count to prevent leading candidate and Preval, a one-time protege of ousted President Jean-Bertrand Aristide, from winning a first-round victory in this battered and poor Caribbean nation.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/haiti_elections

[Judi Lynn]

27. Amazing! I've seen the use of "screaming" to describe the protestors

in several places. I'm downright shocked they didn't throw in "drunken."

Not too obvious, is it? It's clear these demonstrators asked to get shot. Hell, they were "screaming," and probably acting like savages. We don't do that sort of thing at our Republican conventions! Republican Scott Robinson, who tried to kick the bejesus out of Democratic protestor Clare Martin after another Republican stalwart pushed her to the floor, at the 2004 Republican convention, would strictly look right down on that.



It's more manly to kick.

[Bacchus39]

29. what does that have to do with Haiti??

and the protesters in Haiti apparently are quite frantic.

[arikara]

34. I don't blame them for being upset

They are once again seeing the government that they elected ripped away from them. That doesn't mean they deserve to be shot (...or even peppered) by these so called "peace-keepers".

[bullimiami]

18. the haitians know a dirty election when they see it.

they just dont lie down and take it like we do.