Danish Muslim unrepentant for sparking cartoon riots

[Behind the Aegis]

By Assaf Uni

NORREBRO, Copenhagen - The young Muslim Dane, whom most Danish citizens blame for the anti-Danish riots that erupted throughout the Muslim world, is not contrite.

Ahmed Akari said he would have done the exact same thing again.

Here at a shawarma restaurant in the center of Norrebro, an immigrant neighborhood in Copenhagen, the spokesman for the Islamic organizations in Denmark vindicated his campaign in the Middle East to persuade leaders and imams that the Muslims in his home country are under attack.

Some 180,000 Muslim immigrants live in the Scandinavian nation, whose population is 5.4 million. Most of them arrived in the 1980s, when the social-democratic government loosened immigration laws due to a labor shortage. They arrived from the West Bank and Gaza, Iraq, Iran and Somalia to a homogenous, liberal, secular Danish society. The boundaries between the two societies are preserved to this day. Most of the Muslims in Copenhagen live in this neighborhood, and only immigrants work in its vegetable stores, kiosks and restaurants.

more...

[tocqueville]

1. this guy has the murder of a catholic priest in Turkey on his conscience

Catholic priest shot dead in church in Turkey

Reuters
Sunday, February 5, 2006; 5:55 PM

ANKARA (Reuters) - An Italian Roman Catholic priest was shot dead in his church in the Turkish Black Sea city of Trabzon on Sunday, triggering condemnation from Turkey's government and pledges to track down the killer.

"The priest was shot dead at his church this afternoon but we have no more details at present. An investigation has begun," a police spokesman told Reuters.

Turkish media said police were looking for a young man aged about 17 years old seen fleeing from the church of Santa Maria.

The state Anatolian news agency identified the dead man as 60-year-old Andrea Santaro. Other Turkish media said he had been in Turkey about five years.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/05/AR2006020500325.html

[democracyindanger]

3. Hooray for conclusion jumping.

[Orrin_73]

7. The killing of the priest in Turkey was a result of a

robbery, according to turkish newspapers and tv. So it has no link to the cartoons.

[muriel_volestrangler]

8. Any links?

It seems the Turkish Foreign Minister still thinks it related to religion:

Turkish FM and Deputy PM Abdullah Gul's comments regarding the killing of Catholic Priest Andrea Santoro have been published in today's issue of Italian ''La Repubblica'' daily under the heading ''But the West is also guilty.''

''All groups in Turkey condemn the killing of priest Santoro. We are doing everything to enlighten the case,'' said Gul.

Gul stressed that Santoro's assassination caused deep sorrow in Turkey. ''The killing shocked all of us Turks. This incident has been condemned by everyone in Turkey. The Catholics are a part of the Turkish society. We have lived side by side with the Catholics for centuries,'' noted Gul.

Minister Gul commented that security has been tightened around religious edifices throughout Turkey. ''We have provided security guards to all priests,'' stated Gul.

''Turkey is a country of tolerance. The incident has hurt the image of Turkey. All citizens condemn the attack. I offer my condolence to the family of Santoro, the Italian people and the Vatican. I believe that this is a single event. Turkish Police has arrested the killer and further investigation is underway to find out the motive behind this assassination,'' told Gul.

http://www.anatoliantimes.com/hbr2.asp?id=107784

Do they think there's going to be an epidemic of robberies on priests? Or that there's religious tension?

[DoYouEverWonder]

9. So much for the concept

of free speech I suppose.

I don't think the cartoonist should bear the blame for people's insane reactions.

[Texacrat]

24. No he doesn't. The person who murdered the Catholic priest does ...

n/t

[TaleWgnDg]

2. It's one thing to be truly offended, pissed-off, angry as hell at

.
It's one thing to be truly offended, pissed-off, angry as hell at an opinion-editorial (op-ed) cartoon that is found to be sacrilegious to one's religious faith, but entirely unacceptable behavior to riot, loot, kill, maim, bomb, burn as a so-called reaction to such publication as have the extremist Muslims around the world.

We are a Society of Laws. Democracies. Within which we have courts-of-law and legislative bodies that we utilize, not demonstrated barbaric acts of extremist Muslims.

How ironic! Extremist Muslims have proven who they are and who they mime. The very depicted op-ed cartoons that they barbarically protest!


_______________________________________

edited to add this DU thread url: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2101502&mesg_id=2104855
(PHOTOS of op-ed cartoons and other offensive graphics re free speech, free press)

.

[Karmakaze]

5. You are?

"We are a Society of Laws. Democracies. Within which we have courts-of-law and legislative bodies that we utilize, not demonstrated barbaric acts of extremist Muslims."

I assume you are American. If so, that sentence has to be the most ironic load of bullshit I have ever read. Daily, if not HOURLY on DU we hear about yet another law being broken by the US government usually to the detriment of the liberty, health or even life of some Muslim, to which the majority response in the US is "so what?" and you dare to tell other people how they have no right to react to provocations such as this?

Having looked at your post on the other thread, I will say this - you listen to too much propaganda!

If you think the reaction of Muslims was to the cartoons themselves then you are NUTS. The reaction was based on the fact that DANISH LAW - ie the laws you say "we" always follow PROHIBITED such cartoons, yet Danish authorities refused to act upon a breach of the law BECAUSE it involved Muslims, rather than the intended CHRISTIANS. There were no riots at first. In fact all there was was peaceful protest - until the Danish government refused to enforce its own law, and then other European newspapers joined in, some from countries that would have no trouble at all with the jailing of someone who said the Holocaust never happened.

That, and the fact people like YOU refuse to see that, is what they were reacting to. The fact that the western world has demanded for itself a set of laws that it then DENIES and BREAKS when it pertains to Muslims.

If you can't get that then YOU are more a cause of the riots than the Danish Muslim who told fellow Muslims around the world of this.


On edit just wanted to add this from the haaretz article linked in the OP:

"Then European newspapers published the caricatures, triggering off the riots in the Muslim world."

Oh, and this:



Yep "we are a society of laws"... :eyes:

[tocqueville]

6. another selective reading

1) there is a blasphemy law in Denmark as a remnant from old times This law (as in other countries even US States like MA - which has been assessed as unconstitutional) hasn't be enforced for maybe 30-50 years. The cartoons can only be judged by that kind of law and of course it's preposterous in a State with more or less factual separation of Church and State.

2) the "muslims" in Denmark didn't react in general to the cartoons. Some did. Out of 15 millions European Muslims maybe max 5000 have been demonstrating peacefully, there haven't been any riots here.

3) In october 2005 the cartoons were published in an Egyptian daily without any noticeable reaction.

4) Plenty of other cartoons of that type have circulated before (mostly produced by left-wing papers in protest of the treatment of women in Islam) without any other reaction that some angry letters to the Editor or an eventual lawsuit that always is dismissed according to secular laws.

5) "All of a Sudden" everuthing explodes when by coincidence the West pressure against Iran is increasing. Besides there are probably other internal agendas in Syria and Saudi Arabia.

6) I don't believe a second in the "justified outrage" of the "Muslim masses" but in manipulation from Islamic extremists...

7) Our laws are imperfect and not always applied, or applied rightfully. We break our own laws that's for sure. But there still better than the sharia...

you listen to too much propaganda

[genie_weenie]

10. tocqueville, you rock!

With your awe inspiring, astute, reasoned and logical posts. I think 5 and 6 are the most pertinent to the Cartoon OUTRAGE!

[democracyindanger]

11. Talk about selective

You left a lot out of your timeline. But you like jumping to conclusions.

Hippity, hoppity, hippity, hoppity.

[tocqueville]

14. another perspective....

When a Muslim paints nude Hindu gods
By Siddharth Srivastava

NEW DELHI - Fortunately, there have not been virulent protests in India against the publication of cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed, though close to 150 million Muslims reside in the country. However, attention is being drawn to Hindu fundamentalists taking umbrage at India's top artist, M F Husain, who has been booked by police for "hurting sentiments of people" with paintings that depict nude gods.

The tirade against Husain also puts into question the often-held perception that Islam is the least tolerant of all religions to any act that is perceived as blasphemy. Fringe elements exist everywhere, though it is also true that the extent and intensity of protests by some of those who follow Islam set the religion apart.

Last year, Husain's painting The Last Supper sold through an online purchase for US$2 million, the highest ever by an Indian. He is more than 90 years old, sprightly, very creative, known for quirks such as walking barefoot and having an obsession for Bollywood actresses, prominent among them being Madhuri Dikshit, whom he has painted as well as featured in a movie.

He is not new to controversy and has invited the ire of right-wing sections in the past because of his naked and provocative paintings of various Hindu deities (Durga, Sita, Draupadi, Saraswati), though such depictions are very much part of Indian heritage, whether at Khajuraho or the Konark Sun Temple.

read the whole article, it"s worth it

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/HB11Df06.html

I can't imagine what would have happened if a Western Christian artist had painted a naked Allah... besides all the theories of a Western "plot"

[High Plains]

12. Do you believe in manipulation by Western extremists?

And of course, the Islamic world has no reason to be unhappy with the West these days.

[tocqueville]

15. yes but on a little scale

There have been some reprinting of the cartoons by extremist RW magazines when the "cartoon war" broke out. But it plays a little role, because it's expected from them.

The Islamic world has plenty of good reasons to be unhappy with the West, yes. But the cartoon story has nothing to do with the "oppression by the West". This oppression is shown for example in Iraq and mostly by Islamic corrupted governments backed by the West.

What I meant is that the vast majority of the European secularized muslims never thought that this story was a big deal (even after the polemics started) and the masses in the Muslim countries (most of them illiterate) are not concerned. The riotings are orchestrated, it's so damn obvious.

[iverglas]

18. I suspect that what was meant ...

... by "Do you believe in manipulation by Western extremists?" was something more along the lines of pro-Bush "demonstrations" organized by Clear Channel, and other more mundane daily examples.

While Islamists (and various other anti-democratic forces) may indeed manipulate and exploit populations for their own ends, the populations themselves, in this case and many others, have some rather legitimate grievances.

This appears to be the big problem faced by the US in its efforts to eradicate the extremist/anti-democratic forces it perceives as a threat; the US itself is perceived as a major cause of the grievances being exploited. And that perception is a little more reality-based than whatever delusionary grievances Clear Channel is exploiting when it rallies its troops.

[tocqueville]

21. agrees completely

the grievances from the Arabic masses are legitimate and mostly directed at their own Governments. But the US has sided with corrupt governments and is holding some under the arms like Egypt. To the US defense, it must be said that other Western powers have done the same, like France in North Africa. This has been in the name of the fight against communism when there was a surge of Arabic nationalism and secularism that resulted in guys like Nasser, Saddam etc...

But the US has made very big mistakes, seeing red as usual when moderate socialists try to come to power. The best example is Iran. The biggest mistake above all is the total onesideness regarding Israel and specially arming it. The Arabic masses see Israel as US arm in the ME to keep them down. The Europeans have had a more nuanced approach and are not perceived as that. France is very popular in North Africa, Lebanon and even Syria. Italy in Lybia, the Germans in Turkey. The Brits still have influence, but have lost a lot of goodwill.

The first step that the US has to do is to change it's Israel policies towards a more balanced approach and stop backing the Saudi's at any price. It won't be tomorrow...

[LivingInTheBubble]

13. Shhh...

These riots are supposed to prove to those people of infantile intellect that Islam is a extremist violent religious sect...

You can see the deep seated bigotry bubble up now they have a chance... "see how barbaric those muslims are! :banghead:

[Ben Ceremos]

16. You are describing

the strategy behind this entire cartoon psyops. The Danes fucked up, but not by accident. The protestors are part of the reaction that is part of the orchestration. The attempt is to indict all of us as racists and Islamophobes while simultaneously polarizing the world around the religious outrage into 2 camps. Makes war much easier when we can hate "them" and they can easily hate 'us'.

I urge all of us to step back from this absurdity and basically ignore the issue. This applies to my Muslim friends here as well. The Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) would likely not have had much of a concern with the lampooning, as there are no known images of the actual man. The cartoons represent a mythic figure, not the historical one. The Prophet in the cartoons is allegorical.In other words, some guys opinion...and nothing more.


edited for spelling.

[Stockholm]

20. Interesting thread from KOS

Denmark's Lurch to the Far Right by Kossack aruac

The links between Flemming Rose -- the Culture editor of Jyllands-Posten who commissioned and published the "Mohammed the Terrorist" cartoons --- and the neo-cons in the United States --- in particular the toxic figure of Daniel Pipes, who thinks it might be a good idea to incarcarate pre-emptively Moslems in this country-- have already been well exposed. See inter alia:

http://kurtnimmo.com/?p=211
http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=10253
http://www.danielpipes.org/article/3362

Today there is a fascinating article in The Guardian
which charts the background to all of this, which is the emergence of far-right xenophobic and Islamophobic politics in Denmark over the last decade

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1709754,00.html

more http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/2/15/62346/6730

[DemExpat]

4. Glad to see in the article that moderate Muslims there are

against Akari and his Iman and have established a fast growing organization to try to counter more conservative Muslim stances.

Within one week we've become one of the largest Muslim organizations in Denmark," said Khader, "and I believe it represents the public's stand against the extremists and for dialogue.

There seems to be much interesting and to me positive discussion going on in the media here in Holland and in Belgium.

DemEx

[Ben Ceremos]

17. The best thing about being here

in Nederland is that most people here are not interested in this absurd topic. Tolerance remains our way of life and that even after the tragedy of Theo v.Gogh and Mohammed B.
We know, if we can't get along, then we all pay the price...

[SOS]

19. There 's alot missing in this article

The Nation provides much more accurate coverage.

Starting here:

"In April 2003 Danish illustrator Christoffer Zieler submitted a series of unsolicited cartoons offering a lighthearted take on the resurrection of Christ to the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten. Zieler received an e-mail from the paper's Sunday editor, Jens Kaiser, saying: "I don't think Jyllands-Posten's readers will enjoy the drawings. As a matter of fact, I think they will provoke an outcry. Therefore I will not use them."

There's no mention of the peaceful petetion. No mention of the refusal of the paper's editors and the Danish PM to meet with the petitioners. And as usual Bush's pals in Saudi Arabia are mentioned only in one short sentence despite the Saudi's major role in sparking the actual violence.

Most of the period from September to January is missing.

Here's more complete coverage:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060227/editors

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060227/younge

[JVS]

22. Can this guy be charged for precipitating a calamity?

[thebigidea]

23. no, but he can be ignored for producing bad art

the Mallard Fillmore of Europe!