Bill would put flags in all Arizona classrooms by 2007

[LiberalGuy000]

And check out all of the freeper comments on the website below the full story. They're all for it. Surpise, surprise...
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Associated Press
Feb. 15, 2006 07:30 AM

The state House Committee on Universities, Community Colleges and Technology has approved a bill requiring public schools and universities around Arizona to hang an American flag in every classroom by July 1, 2007.

The bill would also mandate that all public and charter schools as well as community colleges and universities buy American-made flags that are at least 2 by 3 feet.

The sponsor of the bill, Russell Pearce, R-Mesa, said this was being done in an effort to raise the level of patriotism that has been steadily declining over the years.

"We live in a time when we need to recognize our heritage," he said Tuesday during the committee hearing. "The flag is a symbol of freedom, and we need to protect that.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0215SchoolsFlags15-ON.html

[wtmusic]

1. No problem with that

They're public schools, funded at least in part by the US government. I do have a problem with the RW appropriating the flag.

When Bush and Cheney are prosecuted as war criminals I'll fly the flag too.

[llmart]

30. I used to fly a flag on my house.....

but when * stole the election and the Supreme Court allowed it, I stopped flying it and I'll bring it back out just as soon as we have a Democrat for a President.

[Carni]

32. I did the same thing

It's in the closet waiting for this crooked cabal to leave.

[proud2BlibKansan]

62. Mine came down when they invaded Iraq

[wtmusic]

66. Mine did for a while too

then someone (here) made the argument that "that's tantamount to admitting this administration respresents America," and I have to agree.

They don't represent America or anything it stands for. So I fly it on holidays in defiance of those MFers. They don't own the symbol. They can create their own skull & crossbones or swastika or whatever.

[deadparrot]

2. #1 of the "14 definining characteristics of fascism":

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

http://www.veteransforpeace.org/The_14_characteristics_030303.htm

[BushOut06]

5. yeah....but I think this is stretching it just a bit

I would venture to say that in pretty much every country in the world, you're going to find that nation's flag in their public schools.

[deadparrot]

6. Probably so.

I'm just irritated that of all the issues in this country, THIS is what they choose to focus on.

[saigon68]

19. It covers your coffin nicely too

USA MADE FLAGS

BWA HA HA HA

Send the work to Beijing so 12 year old kids can sew

Maybe WalMart will get the contract

[VLC98]

44. No flags in British schools to my knowledge.

The only time I can recall seeing a British flag at school was in 1977 for the Queens Silver Jubilee celebration. I would be interested to hear from DU'ers in other countries.

[BushOut06]

3. Is this even a problem?

When I was in school, every school and classroom had a flag. Pretty much every classroom in America does the Pledge of Allegiance each morning - and does so while facing the flag.

This smacks more of grandstanding than anything else. Just like the flag-burning issue - how often do you really see the American flag being burned in this country?

[LiberalGuy000]

7. yes, but...

Why should it be required? And notice that the bill even mandates the size of the flag.

Perhaps the next step would be to require all teachers in public schools to wear an American flag lapel.

[lapfog_1]

17. I would check the sponsor of this bill

for ties to Chinese companies that make 2 X 3 foot American flags... probably using labor practices that would be considered "communist" or totalitarian even by repukes. I'm guessing that he or she has ties to this industry including campaign contributions.

[trogdor]

63. That's to prevent wiseacres like you from mocking them.

By drawing a flag on a 3x5 card and pinning it to the bulletin board.

[SoCalDem]

18. We had a flag in the corner, and a picture if the president

in every room. It was no big deal.. Probably should have never been removed. No one paid any attention when they were there..

[Carni]

34. I don't want my kid to have to look at bushit every day

The flag--fine although I think it's a waste of money to have a large one in every classroom...but bushit photo?

No, I think not!

I don't want to have to put my daughter on mood stabilizers!

[mrcheerful]

4. Gee americans being spied on, inprisoned, scandal after scandal

And this numb nuts thinks putting up flags will stop people from questioning whats going on? Thats what repukes call patriotism, look the other way and we'll keep you safe from the bad people, just don't ask any questions on how we do it.

[tanyev]

8. They're still made in America?

Wonder how much longer that will last.

[Somawas]

9. I can't support this unless

they also require the photograph of Dear Leader to be hung next to that flag. :sarcasm:

[VegasWolf]

10. Wow! What important issues Republicans work on! That has to be

right up there with health care for people.

:sarcasm:

[FiveGoodMen]

26. What's frightening about it it that this IS an important issue for THEM.

Not only does it point out that they're not spending their time on health care, voting bills, the economy, etc., but also that they think it's TERRIBLY important to have that flag everywhere. To me, that's a clear sign of a fascist mentality.

[sinkingfeeling]

11. Wonder how much stock Russell Pearce has in Annin & Co.?

Not too many manufacturers of flags left on American soil.

[booksenkatz]

12. No problem with this, AS LONG AS

the teachers don't have to pay for their own supplies out of pocket, the art and music programs are well funded, each child has the textbooks he needs, the hungry children are fed, the classrooms are not overcrowded, the buildings are in good repair, etc.

First things first. Priorities.

/daughter, sister and sister-in-law of public school teachers

[Heddi]

57. Best Response

Absolutely. As if *THIS* is the most important issue facing Arizona schools, right?

And think of the money spent. Not just on the flags but also:

flag poles
ordering flags
having flags delivered
having someone hang the flag

and then, on top of that is the whole administrative industry surrounding that. Sales people to make the sales, admin assistants to place the order, workers to package the flags, managers to oversee every aspect of it, treasurers and accountants, lawyers and sellers and distributors and workers and maintenance.....

That's alot of money. More than should be spent on something that is done only for an emotional reaction of constituents. It is as if they will do ANYTHING to avoid putting tax-paying-dollars into things that will actually be SOLUTIONS to public schools...

yeah. great. flag in every classroom. The kids still can't read. Still can't do math. Still go home to parents who don't enrich them. Teachers still underpaid. Schools are still expected to perform extraordinary tasks with miniscule resources and support available. But goddamnit! THEY GOT FLAGS IN THE FUCKING CLASSROOM!!!

what a fucking joke.

[KittyWampus]

60. I'd Lobby for a copy of the Constitution/Bill of Rights to be displayed

in every classroom WITH the flag.

[yppahemnkm]

67. I agree, good point.

[LiberalGuy000]

13. the reasoning

"The sponsor of the bill, Russell Pearce, R-Mesa, said this was being done in an effort to raise the level of patriotism that has been steadily declining over the years."

I wonder how he measures that. And what does he mean by "declining"? Remember the months after September 11, 2001? The number of flags flying and the level of patriotism was overwhelming.

From what I've observed, the U.S. has a higher level of patriotism (and nationalism, for that matter) than any other country in the modern world. I hardly think there's a crisis here.

[Bill McBlueState]

16. there is no reasoning!

That's the problem with conservatives. They don't understand that a statement like, "the level of patriotism ... has been steadily declining over the years" needs some kind of measurement to support it. It meshes with their worldview, so it's "true enough" for them.

[VegasWolf]

I don't know. This country in the last six years is nothing like the

country I grew up in. I have nothing but disrespect and contempt for it's leaders, for the people that would elect these leaders, for the oil war, the corporate corruption, the outsourcing of jobs, religious crazies, the huge budget deficits. My patriotism has seriously declined, however waving a flag in front of me seriously won't help.

[bleedingheart]

65. putting up a symbol does nothing....

I wonder what Mr. Pearce things patriotism is....blind love for a country? Perhaps he thinks putting a flag in a room will make people more willing to die for oil barons?

[Bigmack]

14. Remember the "loyalty oath" flap...

in Catch-22

Everybody had to swear loyalty to the US about 20 times a day... for any reason imaginable.
It sure made everybody more loyal... NOT.

We need a Major ______ de Coverly to end our national flag passion.

"Gimme Eat."

[Charlie Brown]

15. You don't have to wave a flag to be a patriot

Let schools teach and instruct the youth without becoming social indoctrination centers (that's what the churches are for).

[snacker]

20. Now if they only had enough money for books... n/t

[NMDemDist2]

21. I don't see a problem with that, my schools always had flags in them

actually I'm surprised they don't already have them.

[Lorien]

22. Kind of a stupid waste of time and money, imho.

Why anyone would believe that patriotism is"declining" baffles me; we've seen more scoundrels taking refuge in it than ever post 9/11. Classrooms are already overcrowded and underfunded; taking up time, money and space with a flag when one undoubtedly flies outside of the school seems to be a bit of excessive overkill, like worrying about a centerpiece when there's no food on the table.

[VegasWolf]

23. Good idea! Then today's children will associate the flag with Bush and

Cheney, with preemptive wars for other people's oil, grow up under continuous spying by the government's Patriot Act enforcers, ruthless corporations screwing everybody and everything for the almighty dollar, and of course religious crazy people running amok in the government. The flag should aptly characterize today's climate for these children.

[stepnw1f]

24. Next GOP Arm Bands (nt)

[SammyBlue]

25. What about posting the Constitution?

Why are these fucking Freeptards in the Arizona Lege so concerned with a symbol and not a backbone?

I pledge allegiance to the Constitution Of the United States of America
And to the Republic for which it created
One Nation, Indivisible
With Liberty and Justice for all!

[Psephos]

51. You have a great idea there. n/t

[The_Casual_Observer]

27. How about they pay for the student's books instead?

[Sal316]

28. Pearce is an idiot.

He's a xenophobic RW nutjob. He's on a crusade to drive all the 'brown people' out of Arizona. A typical representation of everything that's wrong with the RW morons we have in the state leg.

Thank heaven I don't live in his district anymore.

[Wheezy]

29. oh great.

not that I have a problem with flags in the classroom...

but this state's schools don't have enough money as it is -- hey, maybe the teachers can be forced to pay for their classroom's flag. :sarcasm:

[Carni]

31. What the hell is the purpose of spending all that money?

Is McCain going to buy them from Halliburton or something?

I would much rather they kick a few hundred bucks to each classroom for teaching materials instead of them spending some ridiculous amount of money per flag for every classroom (because you just know what we could buy for a 100 bucks they'll spend 1500 on per piece)

Why don't they try TEACHING kids about the Country and the Government instead of just slinging props around?

OH-- but wait in this climate teaching someone anything of use about our constitution would probably be "anti-American"

What the hell am I thinking?

[VegasWolf]

33. Exactly, the law will require another nobid contract with Halliburton.

The taxpayers should get them for about $1500 apiece!

:puke:

[Carni]

35. YEP! Trust me I am spewing right along with you! eom

[PBass]

37. It's hard to feel patriotic when the people running the federal government

are incompetent, cynical liars, and crooks.

Patriotic sentiments will go up when there is a government who doesn't purposely divide the country, just for the sake of votes.

[TheGunslinger]

36. Be a good citizen, OR ELSE!

[DesertRat]

38. I teach in a public school in AZ

All of our classrooms already have flags. :shrug:

[barb162]

53. I think most classrooms around here have flags

[TechBear_Seattle]

39. And the purpose is, what, corporate charity to American flag makers? n/t

[TrogL]

40. Who manufactures and/or sells flags in Arizona

smells like pork barrel

[napi21]

41. Don't classrooms already have flags?

I know I've been out of school for a long time, but they all used to have a flag in the corner. We used to all stand up and say the pledge every morning.

I thought they still did, with all this complaining about kids have to say the pledge in school every day and all?????

[AlCzervik]

42. i dont ever remember there not being a flag in class.

[napi21]

43. So is this just peculiar to AZ?

What are we missing here?

[leesa]

45. Now that's important...keep that phony hyper-patriotism bubbling

Helps the fascism along.

[Zomby Woof]

46. Fucking stupid

Typical of Republicans to be more concerned with protecting the SYMBOLS of freedom than actual freedom itself.

Only in libertarian-freakazoid AZ would they actually legislate Patriotic Correctness, their version of "PC".

[mitchum]

47. They shit on the Constitution and swear allegiance to a piece of cloth

goons

[Canuck55]

48. Gotta love Capitalism.

They'll buy them for 15.00/ea. and pay a contractor 25.00/ea. to install what probably runs about 0.08/ea. for someone in China to produce & ship.

At least all the students in Arizona won't forget what country they live in though.

[Solon]

61. Hey, this is the flag they SHOULD fly, in that case!

...one Nation, under Corporations...
You can buy them here:
http://www.terroristsupply.com/store/misc/items/dept2/01.shtml

[Ferret Annica]

49. I refused to stand to say the pledge of allegiance...

...in high school out of protest over the war in Indochina, and don't find mandating anything like this creates responsible and discerning adults who love their country and demand the best from it. Quite the contrary; it is a quick fix that creates the climate to bully those who criticize bad behavior by their country such as is happening right now with this illegal and immoral war underway in Iraq.

[fujiyama]

50. This is so pointless

First of all, I don't recall ever being in a classroom that didn't have a flag.

Second, as others have noted, thee government should first try to get new updated textbooks for all students.

And third, I'd say it's more important to teach these concepts of freedom as defined by the Constitution Hahn wasting this time on trying to get a piece of cloth in a classroom.

But repukes are good at dealing with meaningless gestures and symbols.

[eugene5debs]

52. salute a teacher instead

California schools have had flags in all the classrooms since forever, and I don't think it makes the students any dumber.

Dopey programs like outcome based education, school to work and no child left behind should be left at the door.

Better to get decent factual textbooks.

[LiberalGuy000]

54. total freedom of speech

"The flag is a symbol of freedom, and we need to protect that."

Here's an idea: Get a bunch of politically-aware high school students in Phoenix to burn a flag in their school's parking lot as a protest against Bush and his band of thieves. The students can claim the same thing as Pearce, but paraphrased a little bit:

"Burning the flag is a symbol of freedom, and we need to protect that."

[Texacrat]

55. The only problem I see with this is cost

I have no problem with an American flag being in a classroom, but to fund buying a bunch of American flags just to make a point is reckless.

[Peter Frank]

56. Fuck this! - How about a copy of our Constitution for every student?!...

...Or is our Constitution too radical these days?

[Heddi]

58. So there's NOTHING better to spend this time and money on?

Not just the flags---yeah, those'll cost ya. What about

flag poles (which will most likely have to be special ordered because it would just be "coincidence" if standard flagpoles can hold a flag that is no more than 2 by 2 1/4 feet, right??)
screws for flag poles
People who will have to go into every school classroom and measure and mark where the flagpole will go
People who will then go into every school classroom and install flags
ordering flags
having flags delivered

and then, on top of that is the whole administrative and supervisory conglomerate surrounding that. Sales people to make the sales, admin assistants to place the order, workers to package the flags, managers to oversee every aspect of it, treasurers and accountants, lawyers and sellers and distributors and workers and maintenance.....

That's alot of money. More than should be spent on something that is done only for an emotional reaction of constituents. It is as if they will do ANYTHING to avoid putting tax-paying-dollars into things that will actually be SOLUTIONS to public schools...

I mean, there's going to be consultants. Do we want the flag with a fringe or without? Do we want it on the east wall or the west wall? Should it go here, or there? Up or down?

And these people aren't going to be paid pennies. We're talking near or at executive level salaries. They're overseers, by god! This is a tremendous waste of money. Don't focus on the cost of the flags. What is the *ENTIRE COST* of this operation? What is the REAL DOLLAR VALUE we're looking at for these flags. And it's not like there's tons of extra cash laying around the public education cofferes. SOMETHING is going to have to be removed or reduced to pay for this. What is it? Salaries? Activities? Tutors? Maintenance? It's gotta come from somewhere....

yeah. great. flag in every classroom. The kids still can't read. Still can't do math. Still go home to parents who don't enrich them. Teachers still underpaid. Schools are still expected to perform extraordinary tasks with miniscule resources and support available. But goddamnit! THEY GOT FLAGS IN THE FUCKING CLASSROOM!!!

Insane. Waste. of. Money.

[brainshrub]

59. People from Arizona must be insecure in their patriotism.

Why else would you need to pass a law to require flag-waving?

Most Americans don't need an excuse to hang a flag in every possible location.

[cynatnite]

64. Isn't freedom having the choice to have a flag...

rather than writing it into law?

This is completely stupid. I guess the legislature doesn't have anything better to do or a better way to spend the state's money. :eyes:

[noamnety]

68. Yuck

My classroom doesn't have a flag, and I prefer it that way. It's an art class, I have ART on the walls. It's my job to expose them to art, not to nationalism.

I need budget money for batteries for our cameras and computer upgrades, not budget money for that sort of nonsense. I don't even have my pencil sharpener mounted on the wall because the maintenance staff is so stretched I'm embarrassed to ask for something that isn't absolutely necessary - we've even got kids that came up with the idea of staying after school once a week to clean the bathrooms, because we're so short handed. We started with a staff of four, then two got laid off in budget cuts, then one had a heart attack. I can't even imagine telling the remaining janitor he has to spend an entire day mounting mini flag poles in every room now.


I know it seems like a small budget item to many people, but every dollar we spend on that has to be cut from somewhere else in the school, every hour spent ordering flags, mounting them, etc. is a cut into our budget. What are we going to give up?

The last thing our schools need is more unfunded mandates.