Nigeria cartoon protests kill 16

[ECH1969]

At least 16 people have been killed in northern Nigeria in violent protests over by Muslims over the cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad.

Eleven churches were burned during the riots in Maiduguri, the capital of the north-eastern state of Borno.

Another resident said "most of the dead were Christians beaten to death on the streets by the rioters", according to the Associated Press news agency.

"At least 10 churches, some hotels, more than 20 shops and over 10 vehicles were burned by the protesters," one resident told Reuters news agency by telephone.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4728616.stm

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. This is not Islam

The Beloved Prophet (pbuh) would have turned away mildly from these drawings, just as he endured the taunts of the pagan Arabs and the attempts on his life while he prayed at the Ka'baa. Qur'an tells us to respect the People of the Book, which means Christians and Jews; one is not to raise a hand in violence against any innocent; in fact, jihad is only resorted to when one is forbidden to practice the faith, which is not the case here.

[INDIA]

2. "This is not Islam"

I sure have been hearing that a lot lately.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. What do you know about Islam?

Do you know the tenets of the faith, or what it is based upon? Just wondering, not meaning anything disrespectful. If you don't, I'd suggest you visit the Muslim/Islam group here at DU for starters. Like any large religion, Islam has people who don't practice the teachings. Islam is the teaching.

[dufrenne]

4. I know enough about Islam

to know that most so-called moderates either silently condone actions of terrorists, don't believe in western liberal values or outright support such violence. Certain muslims living in the west- particularly in America and Canada have integrated well into society and have become true moderates. But the vast majorities living in Europe and certainly Arab countries and asian countries are not so moderate. A "moderate" in those communities would on average believe in the oppression of women, gays, free speech and those values we hold dear. Tenants of faith mean very little when they can be disregarded at the slightest whim and the most grotesque violence and oppression can be excused or promoted by the average man on the street.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. I am a Muslim

and I don't condone the acts of terrorists. However, I have been confronted with hostility and hatred; after 911, my husband's life was threatened by people who considered themselves "patriotic Americans" who "knew exactly what we believed." I'm not sure what you mean by "western liberal values"-if by that you mean the illegal invasion of a country, holding people without a writ of habeus corpus, torturing people, or enacting legislation that favors the rich while taking away social supports for the poor, no, I don't agree with them. If you mean seperation of church and state, respect for the complete spectrum of belief, the right for non-violent protest, then I agree with you-as do every Sufi and other Muslim I know in this country.

I come here for information and to give information, but what I have encountered recently is hostility to posts, apparently based solely on my religious beliefs. What I am trying to do is to build bridges, to help foster understanding. At times, I feel that there are some here who are not interested in this. If you are one of these people, then I guess our conversation is over.

[dufrenne]

6. I think

you know exactly what values I'm referring to. Those values that respect rights of women, gays and minorities; those values that dictate that the reponse to an idea should be another idea, not violence. I'm not specifically referring to you, who obviously holds many of those values if you're on this board, but most muslims living abroad who while not "condoning" violence "understand" it. I always hear that. "I don't condone, but I understand." Sorry. No dice. I never understand violence as a reaction to any idea - no matter how offensive. As an Egyptian Copt, I find it amazing that you would actually dare to compare what is going on in the US to the state of dissent and oppression in arab countries. In the US, people at least have the choice to speak out - like on these boards, as opposed to the middle-east. The problem is - you, as a muslim - are the exception, not the rule. This is not a matter of "hatred" but a matter of understanding that the majority of people who practice Islam today (especially abroad) have an understanding and view of it akin to how Christians viewed their religion 500 years ago - medieval and intolerant. That's a reality. More people, including liberal minded muslims must tale their religion back. It's tough to do though, as any dissent within Islam can lead to threats of death.

[greyl]

8. "liberal minded muslims must tale their religion back"

What is the worst that would happen if they abondoned their religion altogether for a more consistent, tolerant, and inclusive humanist and rationalist point of view?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

9. You have brought up a good point

Sufis are not allowed to practice their faith openly in Saudi Arabia. In other areas, Sufism is under attack by the fundamentalists who are causing all the ruckus. There have been Sufis in other parts of the world who are speaking out. Kindly check out this thread, which has a link to the entire article.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=359x218

The reason I mentioned values that were obviously Bush abuses of our country is because people of other countries often look at these actions as evidence of American values-even people like Gen. Wesley Clark have talked about how our actions speak louder than words. These horrific actions of Bushco appear to becoming the norm, and it bodes ill for our foreign relations, as these actions only aid and abet those Islamic elements that preach hate.

If you read the thread I have cited, you will see that there are people who are trying to speak out-but surely you would agree their task is daunting. All I am asking is that people look at articles like this and realize that Muslims are trying to do something about violence. These people need to be supported, and people of peace need to know they are out there.

[JudyM]

10. Is Sufism part of the Muslim faith or a different faith? I am interested

and have to confess to not knowing a lot, except that I don't understand where the inclination toward violence comes from. What is the religious purpose of jihad?

I love Rumi's poetry!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

12. Sufism is the mystical sect of Islam

and is very progressive. It consists of various orders, some which are strictly Islam and some which are universalist in their approach. To find out more about Sufism, at least the part I'm associated with, I would suggest you look at this site:

http://www.churchofall.us

There are links to other Sufi sites there as well, including the order of Rumi.

"Jihad" means "struggle", not only holy war, which the Beloved Prophet (pbuh) called the "lesser jihad" and restricted as to when it could be done and how people during such a war were to be treated. The "greater jihad" is the struggle one has with one's own ego. This is the goal of one on the Sufi path -- to annihilate the false self into the real. This is the real purpose of jihad.

[Behind the Aegis]

13. Stupid question...

So, Sufism is to Islam as Gnosticism is to Christianity, and Kabbalah is to Judaism? And, why is it the mystical branches are always more progressive?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

14. Got it in one

In fact, the first American Sufi ("Sufi" is actually a rank of achievement, and is being used in that connection here) was Samuel L. Lewis, who was born in San Francisco to Jewish parents, and who studied Kabbalah and Gnosticism as well as Zen Buddhism as well as Sufism. Many Sufi initiates in the US that belong to the order he founded are of Jewish heritage. The practice he started, The Dances of Universal Peace, are practiced by people of all faiths. I have done the Dances with Jewish rabbis and celebrated Shabboth with them.

[JudyM]

18. What is the spiritual purpose of the violence advocated by Holy Jihad?

Is it to quash detractors? To spread the religion? To vindicate the Beloved Prophet?
Thanks for the link - looks interesting - seems similar to Universalists, incorporating diverse religious principles.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

19. Let's look at the history of jihad

It is important at this point to know a bit about early Islamic history. I assume you know that the Beloved Prophet (pbuh) was a well-off merchant in Mecca, respected by both his own clan and the other tribes of the area because of his honesty and fairness. The revealation of the Qur'an by the Angel Gabriel changed his entire life, and brought hostility upon him by those who once honored and respected him.

At first, the pagans of Mecca let him alone; his followers were few, and they weren't interfering with the trade that came with the annual pilgrimage to the Kabaa, an ancient place of worship that the pagans had filled with statues of different gods, many of which they had learned about via their contacts with other peoples. The problem came when the Prophet began praying to the one God openly at the Kabaa and preaching his message to the people who came. The pagans tried killing Mohammed several times, and each time failed; he did not retaliate but went on his way, saying God alone is the avenger.

As the number of Muslims grew, the greater the attacks on them by the pagans; some Muslims were beaten, even killed; the whole Muslim community was shunned in hopes that lack of funds would starve them out and make them go back to the old ways. The Muslims were driven out of Mecca, and the pagans gathered up what they had left behind, put it on a caravan to go sell it for gold. This is when the fighting began-an effort to get back what was theirs. Later battles happened when the Muslims fled to Medina, and the pagans went after them to destroy them. It is these times that are talked about in the Qur'an, and instructions as to what to do during them are related there as well. To sum up in a few sentences, the lesser jihad is to be used ONLY if someone is denying you the right to practice your faith- Surah 2: 190. It can only be a defensive war; you are not to be the aggressor. You are to treat your adversaries generously after a battle is over, and you are never to harm innocents or even harm their trees and crops.

The violence advocated by the current extremists is not following what it says in the Qur'an, imho. There have been statements issued by moderate Muslims condemning the violence, saying that this is exactly NOT what the Beloved Prophet would do. I don't think the point of the extremist violence is to convert everyone to Islam, either, but to foster a political/social agenda where narrow interpretations of law are laid down upon a population with a heavy hand. The violence is definately there to quash detractors. You may have read my post about how Sufis and other moderate/liberal Muslims are persecuted in many Middle Eastern countries.

I think the way to look at the current misuse of "jihad" by the extremists is to compare it with the way the Bible is used by Christian fundamentalists in this country. Christians on DU have said time and time again that what the likes of Robertson and Reed preach is not Christianity. Same goes for what the extremist Muslims are doing-it isn't Islam.

[JudyM]

22. Thanks - interesting and definitely misunderstood by most people.

Too bad the more moderate Muslim clerics can't somehow bring the pressure of reason to bear on the violent ones. especially if it's such a distortion!

Peace -

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

23. On State of Belief yesterday

they said a Muslim group is getting out materials on the life of the Beloved Prophet (pbuh) to help people understand the faith better. God willing, this will help matters.

[greyl]

7. Islam - The Entirety of What Muslims Do in Islam's Name.

Like the Christian bible, the Qur'an is so full of contradictions as to render it an essentially meaningless guidebook to peaceful life on earth.

[Orlandodem]

15. Keep fighting the good fight. I respect what you're trying to do.

But I'm sorry. These people who are being swept into a frenzy over cartoons are out of control. They make your religion look Medieval. Your religion needs an equivalent of the Reformation in Christianity.

I don't recall 2 weeks of riots and rampages throughout the Middle East after 9/11 or after innocent Westerners were beheaded.

[Dutch]

17. No true Scotsman, eh?

:eyes:

[anotherdrew]

11. the world has gone mad n/t

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[truthisfreedom]

16. total insanity. i hope the people who stoked this are left sleepless...

permanently.

[napi21]

20. Ya know, I'm really getting sick of the people who think the answer

to every problem is violence! That includes the Muslims who are ticked off about a CARTOON!!!, the Israelis and the Palestinians who just want to keep fighting, the Arabs who aren't happy about anything, AND ShrubCo who thinks he's still in the days of the wild west!

I've reached the point where I just don't care if they're burning stuff in Africa, stoning each other in Israel/Palestine, or blowing stuff up in Iraq!

I think I've been converted to an isolationist! Let's just bring all our military home from everywhere, and if the natives in other countries want to be restelss, knock yourself out!

[AngryAmish]

21. Sounds like a pogram

[CentralEuropeanDude]

24. Pogrom? - I thought the same. nt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom

Pogrom (Russian: погром; from "громить" - to wreak havoc, to demolish violently) is a form of riot, a massive violent attack on a particular group; ethnic, religious or other, primarily characterized by destruction of their environment (homes, businesses, religious centers). Usually pogroms are accompanied with physical violence against the targeted people and even murders, in some cases to the degree of massacre. The term has historically been used to denote massive acts of violence, either spontaneous or premeditated, against Jews, but has been applied to similar incidents against other, mostly minority, groups.

...