Supreme Court sides with church in dispute over hallucinogenic tea

[Freddie Stubbs]

By Gina Holland

The Associated Press

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court ruled unanimously today that a small congregation in New Mexico may use hallucinogenic tea as part of a four-hour ritual intended to connect with God.

Justices, in their first religious freedom decision under Chief Justice John Roberts, moved decisively to keep the government out of a church's religious practice. Federal drug agents should have been barred from confiscating the hoasca tea of the Brazil-based church, Roberts wrote in the decision.

The tea, which contains an illegal drug known as DMT, is considered sacred to members of O Centro Espirita Beneficiente Uniao do Vegetal, which has a blend of Christian beliefs and South American traditions. Members believe they can understand God only by drinking the tea, which is consumed twice a month at four-hour ceremonies.

New Justice Samuel Alito did not take part in the case, which was argued last fall before Justice Sandra Day O'Connor before her retirement. Alito was on the bench for the first time on Tuesday.

more: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002819478_webtea21.html

[FormerDittoHead]

1. Not going to be small for long! :-) n/t

[WhiteTara]

20. I have heard that this is beyond a powerful

experience, not a Sunday parade.

[Richard D]

30. It is powerful

And very deeply healing. Something I've had the priviledge to experience with Shamans in South America. Changed my life.

[WhiteTara]

43. would you recommend it

twice monthly? Just wondering.

[Richard D]

46. It's not possible . . .

. . . for me to recommend it. In the Amazon, people will often do it twice a week or more. Even daily for a while as part of a deep healing/training. There are Santo Daime (another Brazilian church that uses it) members who drink weekly or more often as well. It has been on the Santo Daime members that a lot of medical testing has been done before and after. All of it's positive.

What I will definitely advise against in doing this on your own. It is as far from a "recreational" drug as a formula 1 car is from a (factory issued) Honda Civic. Doing it on your own could be really terrifying and potentially psychologically damaging.

That said, all studies done to date about frequent ceremonial use of ayahuasca show that the long term effects are quite beneficial. Many old illnesses, some quite serious, can be healed, emotional traumas released, and brain chemistry imbalances associated with depression can be normalized. We're talking core level stuff here. Some of the stuff that is so deep that you might not even be aware that it's there. A good shaman (called ayahuascuero) can go there with you and get it out. Sometimes just by singing songs (icaros) that act as the guide through the inner worlds.

It's not an easy path, nor is it for everyone, though IMNVHO, it should be required for all politicians.

[leveymg]

55. Can you compare it with LSD?

I've read about DMT, and frankly it was described in exactly the same terms used here. Life-changing.

But, LSD can be the same sort of profound experience, depending on the individual, and set and setting.

[Richard D]

60. It's tough . . .

. . . not exactly apples and oranges, but close. Ayahuasca is a jungle medicine. People who take it feel an intelligence in it, far more than just chemistry. LSD is pretty much chemistry. Aya works with the person taking it at a very deep level and a relationship develops that is rather extraordinary. Spirit is the word that comes to mind. Loving. Caring. And strong. Very female. Very different visions than with LSD (though I have to admit that I only took LSD a couple times a very long time ago). There is also a very powerful physical cleaning with Aya. Most people vomit out stuff. Old stuff. Yucky stuff. Old pain, old hurts, old wounds. I think that is a big part of her healing power. Funny, when I talk about other psychoactive substances, I speak of "it's" with Aya, she's a she.

Also, there is a lot more going on than just DMT. The major part of ayahuasca is b.caapi, a vine that originated in the Rio Napo area of Ecuador. The vine contains MAO inhibitors which allow the DMT from the admixture plant, usually p.viridis, to be absorbed orally and have it's affect on the brain. Other herbs may also be added for different effects. The b.caapi vine, also called ayahuasca, can be used alone. The shaman I worked with in Ecuador said that it's the b.caapi that does the healing, and that the DMT faction was what enabled you to see what was happening and to work with it.

Also, unlike LSD, Ayahuasca is old. No one really knows how old, but probably in the thousands of years. So if in fact Ayahuasca is a spirit as well as a plant, that spirit has been working with people for a long time and knows us very well. Loves us too from my experience. A lot.

Jeremy Narby wrote an excellent book about Ayahuasca called "The Cosmic Serpent." well worth a read. Ayahuasca.com is also a good (and sometimes quite wild) place for more info.

[katty]

58. No more Sunday Lemonade - more Tea please!

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

50. It is not a fun trip.

It is a deep-mind expanding trip that you must *absolutely* be prepared from. It's not mushrooms.

[SmokingJacket]

2. But AIDS and cancer patients can't smoke pot???

So I guess religion trumps health.

[WhiteTara]

22. time to start forming those churches n/t

[ingac70]

3. Too bad they don't respect peoples right to medicine...

like they respect the right to religious expression.

[madrchsod]

4. dmt??????

shit i remember that drug -- that shit will really fuck you up....

[Mithras61]

5. Um, help me out a bit here...

as far as I can tell, the name of the church appears to be "The Chartable Center for the Spiritual Union of the Vegetable" but I strongly suspect that's a horrible mistranslation (primarily because I don't grok Portuguese)...

[nickinSTL]

9. The Chartable Center for the Spiritual Union of the Vegetable?

:rofl:

on edit:No disrespect to the practitioners of the religion here, but the name just struck me as funny. I hope that is somewhat mistranslated.

[Mithras61]

10. Exactly my point! I know that can't be right...

but I can't figure out what it SHOULD be! :D

[OldLeftieLawyer]

14. My guess.......

is that it's a word that can't really be translated into English, but means something like "all organic, growing things," something all-encompassing. They can get their pets high, if that's what's called for. Hell, at Antioch, back in the sixties, we had a dog that had sniffed so much second-hand reefer, we had to name him "Torpid."

This is a really interesting decision. Quite a startling opener from a Roberts court.

[nickinSTL]

19. it is interesting...

but, then, the decision was unanimous, apparently. So, Roberts wasn't really instrumental (so far as we can tell) in guiding this particular decision, and it wasn't only the liberal (or only the conservative) justices.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

21. Sorry

When I said "Roberts court," I was only referring to his being the CJ. It's no longer a "Rehnquist court." See?

I never implied that he had anything to do with "steering" the decision. Just that it came from the Roberts court.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[nickinSTL]

37. no, I got that...

I understand that it is the "Roberts court", I was just more generally commenting that it was a unanimous decision.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

41. Yeah,

that's very, very interesting.

Could be a harbinger of an intense preservation of religious freedom, and, if that's the case, I wonder how the Roberts court will handle free speech, free press, and other First Amendment matters that might clash with freedom of (and from) religion.

They're setting up something, that's for sure.

[Mithras61]

23. Thanks! I suspected that was the case...

but was hoping a "speaker" would confirm it.

I know what you mean about Torpid. I had a psycho cat that liked beer when I was in the Army. It was the only thing that got him mellow...

[Richard D]

26. I think . . .

. . . it's more like O Centro Espirita Beneficiente Uniao do Vegetal means The Spiritual Center for the beneficient union with the plant. Or something more to that effect. A lot of things get lost in translation.

[drm604]

48. Just a guess

but the name probably says something about using a plant ("vegetable") to chart a path towards spiritual union, or something like that.

[zanne]

6. New religions will be springing up all over the place.

Obviously, religious people are going to have more freedom than secular people, so let's just band together and call ourselves a religion. All we need is a prophet, a bible of some sort and some laws to go by. Anybody?

[Devlzown]

8. I think I feel the Spirit moving upon me.........

Praise the Mighty Mushroom!

[Demeter]

44. Thomas Jefferson Nominated For Prophet

After all, he called the Civil War. Add in Franklin (a republic, if you can keep it), Abigail Adams (we women will foment a revolution of our own), and other leading Enlightenment figures.

The Declaration, Constitution and the Federalist Papers for the Bible (a no-brainer)

And the laws legally passed by Congress.

There! All Done!

[zanne]

45. Now we need a secret handshake.

No! A Jesus-fish thing for our bumpersticker! Any suggestions?

[mom cat]

51. No laws! No books...Just intuitive connection with the great mystery.

Basically old pagan wisdom stuff.

[LostinVA]

7. Okay, but Native Americans can't legally use peyote, etc.?

WTF?

[Amonester]

12. Looks like they should recollect all their 'ancient' worships in...

some kind of a thick 'volume' of some sorts, and then formally 'declare' it to be the 'bible' of THEIR religion.

Would it be 'worth it?' :smoke:

Yes.

[LostinVA]

16. Exactly --

And, a few Neo-Pagans I know also like to use things to bring on a certain state... can they legally do it, too???

[Amonester]

24. Maybe they should ask for some (now 'new') 'legal' advice...

Although, I'm not sure about the 'new' legal fees such 'new' advices would entail.

Perhaps a DU lawyer (or two, or more) could share some infos about that! ;)

[mom cat]

52. Maybe some of the returned Abramhoff money could be put to good use.

[wordpix2]

13. and Rastafarians can't use marijuana---or cancer patients for that matter

[LostinVA]

18. Maybe all Medical Marijuana uses should start their own

religion. I'm serious.

[wordpix2]

34. agree, good idea for medical mj users to start own religion

[mom cat]

53. Praise the Lord. And our opening hymn is

Don't Bogart that Joint my Friend!

[OldLeftieLawyer]

15. It only means that

some new cases have to filed in different states. New cases with slightly different sets of facts and presented on a slightly different theory.

Could be interesting. This makes a stunning precedent in a whole lot of ways.

I like it.

[Richard D]

28. Yes they can

And have been able to do so for a while. Check out the Native American Church, which used peyote as a sacrament in a blend of various tribal beliefs combined with some Christianity.

[LostinVA]

32. I have Ogala Lakota friends

And they are legally barred from using their tea in ceremonies.

[Richard D]

36. I wonder why . . .

. . . federal law does allow for it's use by both Native and I believe now non-native church members. I'd be interested in knowing why they aren't allowed it's use.

[High Plains]

40. Native Americans CAN legally use peyote

If they are members of the Native American Church.

[BR_Parkway]

11. We hereby announce the Holy Temple of Hemp, ceremony to be performed

daily at 4:20 - repeat as needed for additional spiritual enlightenment.

And think of the tax breaks!

[ixion]

17. Jah! Rastarari!

:smoke:

[alarcojon]

33. Count me in

though we need more flexible services...

[DoYouEverWonder]

49. Heck, if we're going to create a new church

let's incorporate some Muslim practices like taking part in our main sacrament at least 5 times a day.

[mom cat]

54. High five man!

[WhiteTara]

66. I want to form the church of rock and roll

and canabis is the main sacrament. And every service starts with the Beatles...Maybe John Lennon's Imagine

[bluerum]

25. The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster has been fairly

well established and has a significant following.

Venganza.org describes the history and fundamental beliefs of the church.O8)

[jpak]

27. DMT is nothing to mess with in a casual way

it's powerful stuff...

[meganmonkey]

29. It sure is!

I had the opportunity once, so I took it, and I will never forget it...

[jpak]

31. ...

n/t

[tibbiit]

38. Isnt DMT the chem detailed by Terrance McKenna?

In fascinating accounts about tripping with it.
Google Terrance McKenna for his experiences. (he was a great man! who felt the purpose of the universe was for the amusement of he and his friends... which is as good and valid a reason for life as any I can think of:)
tib

[meganmonkey]

39. Yes.

[Richard D]

35. Here's a really good . . .

National Geographic article about one persons experience in Peru. Note that every person will have very different experiences depending on where they started, who they drink with, and what their physical and emotional health is.

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/0603/features/peru.html

[BadGimp]

42. Filling out my application to start a new Church

The Church of the Herbal Redeemer

[Elidor]

47. I've never had a chance to try this

I'm no longer particularly interested in entheogens, but if I could have a shaman guide me through an experience like that, I'd jump.

[Richard D]

62. It's amazing.

[CanSocDem]

63. Sounds like....

...the Carlos Castaneda books and the Yaqui techniques. The Toltec teachings are ancient and therefore probably right but their claim to be able to cure ALL disease will bring them nothing but grief from the medical community.

[Richard D]

64. Do they claim that?

Not aware of that one.

[Jokinomx]

56. I bet chimp attends the Texas branch of this church...

.... he has been hitting the tea....that explains everything...!

:toast:

[Richard D]

61. Not at all

If he had, he'd be far different in a very good way.

[mongo]

57. Whaaaa?

Suprising ruling.

[goforit]

59. WOW.....(AG)Gonzales just got screwed!!!LOL!!!...I love it!!!

Gonzales went to the ends of the Earth to irradicate this.

LOL!!!....He just lost!!!

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

65. Coptic Christian church...

... in Florida was long ago told they could not use marijuana in their religious services. I suppose they will be back "using it" soon. I was taught in political science that "the government can't interfere with beliefs, but it can interfere with practice(s) if they violate existing laws."