Shiite leader cites U.S. in shrine blast

[ECH1969]

A Shiite political leader said Wednesday that U.S. Zalmay Khalilzad shares some of the responsibility for the bombing of a major Shiite shrine because of his criticism of Shiite-led security forces

Abdul-Aziz al-Hakim, head of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, cited Khalilzad's statement at a press conference Monday that America would not continue to support institutions run by sectarian groups with links to armed militias.

"For sure, the statements made by the ambassador were not made in a responsible way and he did not behave like an ambassador," al-Hakim told reporters. "These statements were the reason for more pressure and gave green lights to terrorist groups. And, therefore, he shares in part of the responsibility."

Khalilzad has urged the Iraqis to form a unity government in which nonsectarian figures control the ministries of Defense, which runs the army, and Interior, which is responsible for the police.

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/breaking_news/13933131.htm
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Politically the US just lost Iraq. It was going their way and against Jaafari, but this just cemented Sadr and Harkim the most powerful men in Iraq.

[liberal N proud]

1. I knew this was going to be blamed on the US

George W. Bu$h is ultimately responsible, it is his war and we are all going to pay the price for his actions.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2474648

[sabra]

2. watch BushCo never mention Iraq again...

"Iraq, what happened there? Now, Iran..."

[rox63]

3. We are so fucked... n/t

[rodeodance]

4. well, Rummy--explain this one away.

[rodeodance]

5. k and nominated.

[genie_weenie]

6. SCIRI

Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, is and has been a propaganda tool of the Iranians in Iraq for many years. Sadr has little credibility in the higher power circles, and as long as Sistani is around Hakim and Sadr are also rans which is why Sadr tried to have Sistani killed back in 2003.

[Warren Stupidity]

7. Who benefits?

I think it is plausible that the bombing of the Golden Shrine was a US intelligence operation intended to continue the permanent destabilization of Iraq, providing ongoing justification for our permanent occupation of the region. 14 permanent military bases. Peak Oil.

It is always possible that the official story that this was the work of sunni insurgents is the actual reality, I've just been sceptical of this sort of tactic being of value to sunni separatist goals.

The Kurds might view the disintegration of the nominal Iraqi state as aiding their goals of an independent Kurdistan.

al qaeda (if it is anything other than a false flag operation to begin with) could view our semi-permanent presence in Iraq as beneficial towards their long term goals.

Iran and Syria might view keeping us tied down in a bloody occupation of Iraq as preferable to having 150,000 troops plus an unknown number of mercs available for other operations in the region. It is doubtful that shiite Iran would blow up one of its own religious icons to achieve this goal.

The real question is: is there any faction other than possibly the official shiite political parties that actually wants peace in Iraq under the current government?

What a mess.

[ECH1969]

8. The US certainly does not benifit

In fact this was the worst possible thing to happen at the worst possible time for the US when they were putting pressure on Iraq to nominate an non-sectarian Interior Minister.

[Warren Stupidity]

12. I disagree with your assumption

that we want stability and peace in Iraq.

[951-Riverside]

16. We really want land & oil

Since there is a large resistance to us taking those resources creating a civil war is the next best option.

[cliss]

18. There's just one little problem -

this war is quite a costly undertaking. We've spent around $370 billion dollars (I'm never quite sure how much it really is).

THAT is one hell of a war. We've fucking bankrupted ourselves doing it. And for what? To create instability? To make things so chaotic that we can continue to pump out their oil?

Now if you ask Paul Wolfowitz, he would say it was worth it, because the oil is absolutely worth the cost. But at some point, we ARE going to run out of money.

[bvar22]

19. The Oil Companies aren't picking up the tab....

The Oil Companies and THE RICH are not picking up the tab for the war, the American Middle Class and future generations of the American Middle Class are being billed for this War.
The RICH couldn't care LESS how much this WAR cost. They are making $BILLIONS in profits.

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[Warren Stupidity]

20. Exactly - who is we?

Halliburton and Exxon and The Carlyle Group aren't suffering over the war costs - your and my social security pensions are going to suffer, our kids are going to suffer, as we - the working people of this country - pay and pay and pay for their greed and folly.

[wordpix]

35. internat'l power elite only ones profiting from war & we need to indict

those responsible and make them pick up tab.

[coalition_unwilling]

23. "We've spent around $370 billion dollars"

What do you mean by "We"? (Just joking).

Iraq is actually, among other things, a giant money-laundering operation whereby the regime rewards its friends and associates with hugely expensive no-bid contracts and, as has been documented numerous times, out and out cash gifts which can't subsequently be traced.

If you accept that analysis (of Iraq as a money-laundering operation that benefits the regime and its supporters), then wouldn't it make sense that Bush would do everything in his power to keep the money-laundering operation in business? Hence, "sectarian violence" serves the regime's interests, as it provides yet another reason for the occupation to continue.

[markam]

30. We will not run out of money

The government will create whatever amount of money they want. That is what they have done for the last five years, and that is what they will do until the dollar collapses. Once the dollar collapses, all the federal government debt obligations become worthless, and their problems are solved.

What we will run out of is oil. The oil underneath Iraq is worth a lot more than an infinite amount of money created by Bushco.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[chieftain]

10. We are going to have to fight our way out of Iraq. This could be a

debacle of monumental proportions that only the most deluded of W's cult can spin away.

[MadMaddie]

17. It's going to be catastrophic

and if Rumsfeld and Condi get their way and go after Iran....our troops are being put in more jeopardy as every day passess...

[Massachusetts]

11. What do these two Lads have to say about this?

Things were so much easier in the Nixon years.

[Bridget Burke]

24. So, Cheney had that sneer in his "youth"...

At least the years made him see the futility of the comb-over.

[daleo]

31. And quite the nasty look in the eye too

As if he was thinking "if I only had a shotgun..."

[DoYouEverWonder]

32. I do have to give him credit

for not going for a rug or a dye job. That's about it though.

[Cults4Bush]

13. Juan Coles take on this is spot on. Should make the Neocons

happy though.

More Chaos means more money to steal, also means no rebuilt Iraq that could once again "threaten" the peace loving, nonexpansionist, non torturing/hostage taking, freedom loving, democracy honoring Likud party.

I'd be a fool to not at least consider well, the possibility of a false flag here.

[Colorado Blue]

26. Oh STOP. This is a tragic thing, a terrible situation. It is

also not the first time sectarian violence has erupted between Sunni and Shite.

Trying to cast aspersions on somebody else is only going to obfuscate the very issues confronting the people of Iraq, and will quite likely rebound on innocent people who have nothing to do with this situation.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Warren Stupidity]

33. Right. Everything that happens in the ME is just what we are told it is.

Don't ask questions. Don't bother looking for who benefits. Just accept the official story.

[wordpix]

36. thank you. I think everyone should stop blaming until we find out who the

perps are.

Apparently, Shiites in Iraq think the Samarra mosque bombing was done by Sunnis and thus, they are attacking Sunni sites.

[Warren Stupidity]

39. "perps"?

What you think CSI is going to investigate?

We will never know who the "perps" are. The fact that Shiites are attacking Sunni mosques indicates that whoever blew up the golden dome achieved their objective of inciting civil war. The question remains, who benefits?

Asking who has motive is not 'blaming'.

[jkg4peace]

47. but they do know who the perps are

they were dressed up like National police commandos -- of course, the Bush administration says it was foreign terrorists. But I'm wondering who saw them and reported that they were dressed up like National police commandos

for some reason my copy and paste doesn't work on my computer anymore, but the article appeared on Truthout.org from CNN.com

I'm thinking the US is behind it, too. They need the civil war to shut up the growing calls for the US to get out - both inside Iraq and in Washington. It doesn't make much sense any other way. It certainly is not going to win converts to al-Qaida if Shiites think they did it. It doesn't make sense to me that Sunni insurgents would destroy such a holy place.

[donsu]

14. sad - first Afghanistan loses the buddhas and now this

nt

[Toucano]

15. How long before Saddam is released? n/t

[populistdriven]

21. The key to getting out of Iraq is to make Iran a worse problem

That gives Bush an excuse to pullout

[Disturbed]

22. No group has claimed responsibility for the Mosque...

bombing. So what is the perp's point in doing this?

[bemildred]

25. Divide et impera

http://www.answers.com/topic/divide-and-rule

[Colorado Blue]

28. Al Qaeda to ignite Sunni-Shia conflict in Iraq

After the massacres of Shias in Afghanistan and Pakistan, the Wahabis have shifted their attention to Iraq in order to ignite hatred among the country's Sunni and Shia population. A document seized by the US security forces proposes that the terrorist network provoke sectarian hatred and a civil war in Iraq, US officials said.

Top U.S. military spokesman in Iraq Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt attributed the 17 page document to Abu Musab Zarqawi, a suspected Jordanian militant with al-Qaeda ties. Brig. Gen. Kimmitt told a news conference in Baghdad: "We believe the document is credible and we take the threat seriously.

"There is clearly a plan on the part of outsiders to come into this country and spark civil war, breed sectarian violence and try to expose fissures in the society.

"We are persuaded that Zarqawi was the author of the letter."

http://www.shianews.com/hi/middle_east/news_id/0001055.php

This was written February 9, 2004.

[bemildred]

29. I dunno about the one legged dead guy, but this does fit very well

with OBL's stated intentions, over the years, and it's clear
somebody thought the time is ripe to light the fuse. With the
cartoon fuss, the Abu Ghraib leak, and other things, the timing
here could not be better (or worse depending on how you look at
it.) But I can think of a number of other parties that might
think this a "useful" thing, Iran and Syria, to name two, the
occupation in certain situations, in fact anybody that is not
happy with the new government or the prospect of Iraq settling
down, or that wants a wider conflict, or that wants to keep the
US distracted.

[Andromeda]

34. Looks like their plans have materialized.

[wordpix]

38. it does seem this is Zarqhawi's work-many Iraqis hate him for what he's

wrought there.

[Warren Stupidity]

40. many people think Zarqhawi is a work of fiction.

But in one post you say we should stop blaming until we know who the perps are and in this post you have solved the crime. Congratulations!

[Colorado Blue]

42. Zarqawi is no fiction. His only family have disowned him &

Jordan has sentenced him to death, in case they ever catch him.

[Warren Stupidity]

43. Well that proves it.

Meanwhile he is both unipedal and bipedal depending on which news stories you read. He has been killed many times and he is to blame for all bad shit. Has it occurred to you that our own gang of terrorist criminals have a modus operandi that includes having a focal boogeyman as their main blame guy? Always. I say, real person or not, Zarqawi is a myth.

[oblivious]

44. Zarqawi the man was no fiction; Zarqawi the myth was.

A minor criminal waltzing into a foreign country and getting hard-bitten, war-experienced Iraqi generals to accept his leadership? That was the story we were sold in 2005. Anyone who believed that fiction has serious problems with reality.

[Andromeda]

45. The black sheep of the family...

Zarqawi sure hasn't let a death sentence prevent him from carrying out his plans. I'm convinced that he is behind the smoldering cauldron of sectarian violence in Iraq.

Bush was warned that this would happen if he invaded Iraq an it's only getting worse.

[Colorado Blue]

41. The Jordanians have sentenced him to death in absentia,

also.

This is really awful. The violence has now claimed many more lives:

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/iraq

[DS1]

37. I guess they've learned "Finger Pointing" from the White House

They blew themselves up.

[mvd]

46. Iraq is becoming just as bad as I thought it would

Why would anyone be scared to speak up against **? Low popularity, war going badly, greater income disparity, scandals, little dignity worldwide, etc. If only we had Votes of Confidence here in the U.S.