Iraq Death Toll Higher Than First Thought (more than 1300 killed)

[RedEarth]

BAGHDAD, Feb. 27 -- Grisly attacks and other sectarian violence unleashed by last week's bombing of a Shiite shrine have killed more than 1,300 Iraqis, making the past few days the deadliest of the war outside major U.S. offensives, according to Baghdad's main morgue. The toll was more than three times higher than the figure previously reported by the U.S. military and the news media.

Hundreds of unclaimed dead lay at the morgue at midday Monday -- sprawled, blood-caked men who had been shot, knifed, garroted or apparently suffocated by the plastic bags still over their heads. Many of the bodies had their hands still bound -- and many of them had wound up at the morgue after what their families said was their abduction by the Mahdi Army, the Shiite militia of cleric Moqtada al-Sadr.


"After he came back from the evening prayer, the Mahdi Army broke into his house and asked him, 'Are you Khalid the Sunni infidel?' " one man at the morgue said, relating what were the last hours of his cousin, according to other relatives. "He replied 'yes' and then they took him away."

Aides to Sadr denied the allegations, calling them part of a smear campaign by unspecified political rivals. By Monday, violence between Sunnis and Shiites appeared to have eased. As Iraqi security forces patrolled, American troops offered measured support, in hopes of allowing the Iraqis to take charge and prevent further carnage.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/27/AR2006022701128.html

[rzemanfl]

1. Didn't some American General or Colonel say "there are no

bodies in the streets?"

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

2. Yeah, not in the Green Zone where HE was

but out in the real world...

[TheModernTerrorist]

30. they were probably

all on the sidewalk when he got there...

:eyes: :-( :shrug:

[Robeson]

3. "The toll was more than three times higher than the figure ....

...previously reported by the U.S. military and the news media."

Why am I not surprised.

[enigma000]

4. al-Sadr is back in the game

I guess he figures he would have better luck taking on the Sunni insurgents than the American army. Smart man. Let me say up front I don't like executions but someone had it coming. It looks like al-Sadr's group is dishing out revenge on the Sunni insurgency.

I'm glad the US stayed out of this. Let the Iraqis deal with this in their own way..........

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

9. you are funny!!!-the U.S. stayed out of this? yeah right !!!

Who has the most to gain out of all this?
And what about the Brits cought planting bombs dressed as A-Rabs?
The British Secret Serevice busts them out before they could talk!!

The U.S. stayed out of this?
Bwaaaaaaahhhh!!!!
---Maybe they didn't get caught this time
---but you can bet they had a hell of alot to do with it-
Anything that happens there they know about and have something to do with.

---who had everything to gain by it?
The occupying forces!!
Ding!! Ding!!! Ding!!!

[leftchick]

13. the US stayed out of this???

I want what you are smokin! :smoke:

[enigma000]

19. but they did

I don't see the multi-national forces in many direct confrontations with Iraqis over the last week. In fact, if anything, they just watched events unfold.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/27/AR2006022701421_pf.html

[EFerrari]

26. We did not stay out of this. The death squads operating

from the basement of the Ministry of Interior have American advisors. Amy is interviewing John Pace, outgoing UN Human Rights Chief in Iraq, this morning. He said a name several times -- Steele? Jim Steele? An advisor who was formerly involved with the DEA drug wars in Latin America, and with the war in El Salvador from 1980-1992. He and his buddy Negroponte have a lot of "experience" in "counterinsurgency". :sarcasm:

We've got some real talent there on the ground. :sarcasm:

Edit: Correct name, clarity.

[Teaser]

5. holy shit...

even I didn't think it was that bad...

[uppityperson]

6. In the name of all that is right, peace

:( :cry: :cry:

[liberalpragmatist]

7. Are You Sleeping Okay, Mr. Bush?

:yoiks:

[LisaLynne]

17. Unfortunately, I'm sure he's sleeping just fine.

He either doesn't know about it, or if he does, it simply doesn't affect profits, so why would he care?

[MadMaddie]

23. Of course he is sleeping well....he has no concience.......

and those without conscious have no worries!!! He is pure evil!!!

[worldgonekrazy]

33. And the heavy meds can't hurt

I'd wager the whole lot of 'em are unrestrained pill poppers.

[Seen the light]

8. Iraqi population in July: 26,074,906

This is a 9/11 many times over for Iraq.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

16. Yes. The equivalent of TEN 9-11's. (proportionately)

Totals to date are equivalent to 95 9-11's.

95 9-11's!

950, proportionately.

[sabra]

10. OMG!!!

:-(

[Contrary1]

11. Guess the administration hasn't gained full control of the Iraqi media...

yet.

"The disclosure of the death tolls followed accusations by the U.S. military and later Iraqi officials that the news media had exaggerated the violence between Shiites and Sunnis over the past few days..."

[libodem]

12. Welcome to Democracy

How do you like it now? Could a dictator be worse? Even a monster like So Damn Insane kept some semblance of order. These deaths are horrific!!!!

[leftchick]

14. THIRTEEN HUNDRED KILLED!

has there been any mention of this on tv?? :grr:

[MadMaddie]

24. They report 24 here 13 there...

They minimize Iraqi deaths......

The * Cabal has ensured that the US will be in danger forever....the Iraqi people will never forget what the * cabal (America) has done to them......

[megatherium]

15. What's the "normal" death toll? I remember reading it was 1000/month.

On public radio this morning, they said the death toll in Baghdad itself was 300 in the last week, and this was 70% higher than "normal". That would be 175 a week, or 750 a month. These are deaths due to bombings, death squad activity and so forth (not ones killed by US forces).

If someone knows the correct numbers, please share them.

[MadMaddie]

25. The fact that there is a normal death toll....

is a sick...sick...thing. How can this be normal and how can this be acceptable!!

This is a debacle!!

[EFerrari]

27. 120-150 A DAY are being kidnapped per

John Pace, outgoing UN Human Rights Chief.

[Warren Stupidity]

18. Sectarian violence has been used as a cover

for state terrorism against insurgent base support. See Robert Fisk's excellent accounting of the Algerian civil war in his news reports and his new book The Great War for Civilization. The Algerian campaign against their islamic insurgency was supported by 'our side' and included the use of wholesale slaughter of insurgent friendly villages and neighborhoods, always blaming the insurgents themselves for the atrocities. (The islamic insurgents do not get off untarnished in Fisk's history, they certainly did commit their own atrocities, just not on anything approaching the scale of the government's false flag efforts.)

For all of you swallowing whole the Official Story, I suggest not jumping to conclusions and doing your own research on the recent history of the region.

[Robeson]

20. Your are correct.....

...thanks for bringing the issue up.

[megatherium]

29. If the US is to blame for the shrine bombing or the current

sectarian violence, why?? The last thing we want is for the Iranian-friendly Shiites to control Iraq, but this is what's going to happen if the sectarian violence progresses to civil war -- we would be forced out of Iraq. And with a little bad luck, there could be a regional conflagration that would destroy petroleum production in the middle east. We'd be pretty much fucked if that happened (deservedly so). So right now, there are two points-of-view in this country: Leave Iraq immediately, or we want to leave Iraq but we can't yet (because it would go to hell). Nobody thinks we can make Iraq a nice, stable pro-western country; much less a western democracy. The only hope now is to forestall Armageddon for a few more news cycles.

[Warren Stupidity]

31. You keep attributing decent motives to our rulers.

You left out: use the cover of sectarian violence to engage in wholesale slaughter of everyone and anyone suspected of not cooperating until the Iraqis are so exhausted from the slaughter that they give up and behave. I know it is unthinkable, except as I noted, that is exactly what happened in Algeria (although in a somewhat different situation) and the same folks who worked on that project are working on this one.

Look I don't have an ounce of proof and I am the first to say so. But I reject the theory that our side has nothing to gain from sectarian violence. The assumptions behind that include assuming that our original motivation was to bring freedom and democracy and peace and stability to Iraq, which I reject out of hand as total bullshit, that was not the mission to start with and is not the mission now.

I believe they intend to destroy Iraq Iran and Syria (and Lebanon along the way). They do not care how many die. Their goal, for this chapter of the PNAC project is to wipe the ME slate clean, and Iraq is just phase 2 (lets call Afghanistan phase 1). At the end, every one of the non-subservient states will be gone.

[megatherium]

32. No, you don't have a particle of proof.

It is true that our leadership wanted to bring down Iraq, Syria and Iran. Partly because militant Islam will lead to more 9/11s or worse; partly to protect (control) the energy supply. (Certainly not because they believe in peace, love or understanding.) I think they were mistaken that a war in Iraq would make it easier to go into Iran. But I think they now know that Iran is unreachable, except for a heavy bombing campaign that I doubt they want to do (too dangerous). So all they can do now is hope Iraq calms down and gets stable enough so that they can leave eventually without looking like they were chased out with their tails between their legs. Setting off sectarian violence and a civil war isn't going to help that project. Indeed, now the news today is that a new wave of violence (bombings) has erupted, and fears of civil war are renewed. This is a moment of increasing danger. Not their goal.

[Warren Stupidity]

34. Here is a more detailed analysis.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=539737&mesg_id=539737

I am not alone off by myself in tinfoil hat land. Read a good history of recent events in the region. I highly recommend Robert Fisk's latest, The Great War for Civilization http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1400041511/satisfaction1-20/102-3464187-4591326
it might get you thinking.

[megatherium]

35. He's a less detailed analysis:

Bushco are stupid fuckups, and that's why there is chaos.

What gives away the game: the thread you link to contains the assertion: Like a true gangster, Bush's military henchmen control the mob of antagonized Iraqis with their paid soldiers, their stooges and the fear they spread with their targeted attacks on those who would resist their false, propped-up authority. No way does Bush's henchmen control the mobs. They're not that strong nor are they that wily. The problem is that the occupation forces have pretty much no control whatsoever. Maybe this is some insane, malignant plan; but I hesitate to attribute to malice that which can be attibuted to incompetence.

Now as far as Iran goes: evidently they do want to destabilize Iran. But that would be to bring the regime down. In Iraq they're desperately trying to install a regime, and not having too good a go of it.

I'll look for the Fisk book. I could be wrong. I hope I'm wrong. Not because the thought of Bush being that evil pains me (I am already aware he is a spoiled little prick), but because the thought of Bush and company trying to execute such insanely dangerous plans given their incompetence. The ultimate outcome won't be bad, it will be catastrophically bad.

[stop the bleeding]

21. I added this to the DU Research Forum for Iraq News under the

Civil War topic

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_oet&address=358x567

[donkeyotay]

22. How's our good friend Chalabi making out in all the chaos

I understand he only got 1% of the vote, but is in control of the oil right now. Last I heard he wasn't satisfied with that. Wants more power.

One thing I noticed in accounts of the attack on the mosque, the one that they said had al Qaeda's "fingerprint all over it," was that these savage terrists tied up the guards instead of killing them. That really makes me wonder who did it. Was this an inter-Shiite operation?

[primavera]

28. Ah, freedom on the march...

... to the morgue. Funny how everyone knew and tried to tell der Fuehrer this sort of thing could happen yet, strangely, no one listened.

[Clara T]

36. salvador option redux n/t