U.S. deserter alleges atrocities

[ConcernedCanuk]

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U.S. deserter alleges atrocities

Mar. 30, 2006. 01:47 PM
CANADIAN PRESS

A "trigger-happy" U.S. army squad leader shot off the foot of an unarmed Iraqi man and soldiers kicked a severed head around like a soccer ball, a U.S. war deserter told an immigration and refugee board Thursday.

Joshua Key, the first U.S. deserter with combat experience in Iraq to apply for refugee status in Canada, told the board he witnessed numerous atrocities committed by U.S. forces while serving for eight months as a combat engineer.

/snip/

Key said the army deceived him when he was recruited and promised him in writing that he would not be sent overseas for combat because of the size of his family.

He and his wife Brandi have four children between the ages of seven months and six years.



Why do I find this man's claims so believable, as disgusting as they are?

(sigh)

[InternalDialogue]

1. You find his claims believable

for the same reason a lot of people will -- he's not alone in voicing them.

From the article (also not hard to believe):

Key said he was never trained on the Geneva Conventions and was told in Iraq that the international law guiding humanitarian standards were "just guidelines."

From what I can tell, sign holders at housing developments get more training than we're giving our soldiers.

[fasttense]

3. Wow, they have stopped teaching the Geneva Convention?

That was practically the first thing they taught us in Officer Candidate School. Had a former POW come in and gave a great lecture on the horrors of war and on the Geneva Convention and why it was important. He said he gave the same lecture to the enlisted. These poor dumb soldiers don't even know they are making themselves into international criminals.

This is so typical of how the brush administration treat soldiers. The administration treats soldiers like Stupid Employees. They don't need to know international law. We'll tell them what they need to know. Now shut up and get back to work, err.. killing.

[InternalDialogue]

6. Your lecture from a former POW

should be required of anyone who ventures beyond our shores for any military reason. Not just for the jeopardy our soldiers put themselves in if they violate international law (which becomes, de facto, our law as well, though you'd be hard-pressed to find a rightie who could find that in the Constitution), but for the sheer importance of educating them in the reality that when we insert ourselves into a situation not on our own soil, our own laws don't apply anymore. We can no more impress our own legislation on citizens of another country than we can impose our morals, religion, or values on them. That's what the Geneva Convention is all about -- rules of behavior and expectations of treatment in a situation where no single country's laws hold power anymore.

[TrogL]

15. I was in the reserves

and one of the first lectures was on the Geneva Convention.

[saigon68]

38. THESE 3 PICTURES SAY IT ALL ***CAUTION DON'T LOOK***

SABRINA AND HER CORPSE

[MadMaddie]

2. Because war makes sane men do insane things...

and that's why it shouldn't be taken so lightly....especially by ChickenHawks wannabe's who never served..and think that our troops are like the little green toy soldiers we used to play with..
This is a generation of soldiers that will come back and be in real trouble...

To the Hague with the * Cabal!!

[Amonester]

5. I Second That

I wish Mr. Key will be welcomed to Canada, and that he'll tell the world about the * Cabal war crimes (trial or not).

[0007]

14. Perhaps he will testify one day at the Hague against junior and

his whorey crew.

[IndianaGreen]

21. That should be the picture of the defendants at a new Nuremberg

tribunal, and they should be tried for their crimes against humanity.

[JohnyCanuck]

4. That's what happens when you come to believe the enemy isn't human

SAS man quits in protest at 'illegal' Iraq war

Richard Norton-Taylor
Monday March 13, 2006
The Guardian

SNIP

When he was on leave in March last year he told his commanding officer he had no intention of returning to Iraq. He said he was very angry "at the way the politicians have lied to the British public about the war. But most importantly, I didn't join the British army to conduct American foreign policy."

He said he had witnessed dozens of illegal acts by US fighters who viewed Iraqis as "sub-human". Mr Griffin said: "I saw a lot of things in Baghdad that were illegal or just wrong. The Americans were doing things like chucking farmers into Abu Ghraib, or handing them over to the Iraqi authorities, knowing full well they were going to be tortured."

The Ministry of Defence does not comment officially on any activities involving Britain's special forces. However, defence officials did not deny that Mr Griffin left the SAS in protest against the war in Iraq.

The SAS has been operating under cover in Iraq since the invasion, working with US special forces seeking out insurgents and foreign Arab fighters linked to or proclaiming sympathy with al-Qaida.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1729553,00.html

[Tom Joad]

7. Not the only one to say this. Jimmy Massey is another. Benderman,

yet another. Kevin Benderman is serving an 18 month sentence for refusing to return to Iraq.

“I have both a professional and a moral obligation to call into question why we are still in Iraq after accomplishing the mission – in President Bush’s words – of deposing Saddam, and why U.S. military personnel are increasingly killing non-combatants. On my last deployment in Iraq elements of my unit were instructed by a Captain to fire on children throwing rocks at us.” This is not what he signed up for, Benderman said.

Sgt. Jimmy Massey:
"I’m not going to kill innocent civilians for no government. ... I was taught and raised by parents and relatives that there are certain things you don’t do, and killing innocent civilians is one of them."

Meet the military resisters, the real heroes in the struggle against Bush's war of terror.
http://tomjoad.org/WarHeroes.htm
Most complete list on the internet!

[wookie294]

8. Where can we donate to his legal defense fund? n/t

[Tom Joad]

10. Let them Stay! Support War resisters in Canada.

http://www.resisters.ca/

Buy the Shirley Douglas video.

[wookie294]

11. Cool

I noticed a lot of good people endorsed that group - Daniel Ellsberg, Ron Kovic, etc.

Thanks for the info!

[Tom Joad]

9. It is well documented that the US is committing war crimes, in this war of

aggression, and the continued occupation.

[ConcernedCanuk]

16. Agreed, but who the heck can stop them??

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There is no argument that the USA is the "super power" of the world

At this point in time

But the USA does not have the support of the other 6 Billion people in the world

And they have enraged the Muslim community with their invasions and occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq

Alliances are being made worldwide against the US, both militarily and economically . .

"Shock and Awe" is gonna bite the USA in the ass big-time

Like think "The rise and FALL of the _____________ Empire"

History repeats itself . . .

(sigh)

[centristo]

12. when will the swift-boating start?

oh wait, it already has...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1455584/posts

[President Kerry]

18. yup, Fascist freaks are having themselves a ball in a merry circlejerk.

Now, how many of you FReaks have been to Iraq to actually support your claim that he's lying? Yellow fucking chickenhawks. He enlisted. Did you?

Right on, Josh!

[Lisa]

13. I've met Joshua Key -- he seems honest and decent

Not the sort of person who would make things up, or be lazy about anything. His wife Brandi is wonderful -- very kindhearted and down-to-earth. I am convinced that something terrible is going on, for such upstanding (and yes, patriotic) Americans to be driven to the point of leaving the US.

[cantstandbush]

17. How can we make the worthless MSM in US pay attention to this?

Even more, how can we get the US Congress to pay attention to this?

[PVK]

19. Just like Vietnam. All kinds of ugliness there too.

As John Kerry pointed out.

[Blue_Tires]

20. ttt one time

[JohnnyJ]

22. re:

I apologize but I question every alleged "attrocity" that was committed by our troops.

People seem to be more interested in going after our men and women in uniform instead of the white-collar crooks who ordered them into Iraq in the 1st place.

[President Kerry]

23. Nothing wrong with questioning it.

But outright denying it without any evidence is dishonest. Searches and interrogations have been documented.. you be the judge of how appropriate they were under the circumstances. As for white-collar criminals, sure they deserve most of the blame. But in the end it's the decision of an individual soldier. Some take the high road and disobey orders if they are egregious violations of international law.

Welcome to DU!

[Karmakaze]

24. Yeah, what would the guy who was actually there know?

Despite all the images, videos, and stories saying the exact same things, this guy probably just made it up to get out of going back. Right?

[JohnyCanuck]

25. A publicity nightmare for the US military, veterans against the war.

'If you start looking at them as humans, then how are you gonna kill them?'

Wednesday March 29, 2006
The Guardian

The soldier was engaged in no ordinary protest. Over five days earlier this month, around 200 veterans, military families and survivors of hurricane Katrina walked 130 miles from Mobile, Alabama, to New Orleans to mark the third anniversary of the Iraq war. At its vanguard, Iraq Veterans Against the War, a group formed less than two years ago, whose very name has aroused intense hostility at the highest levels of the US military.

Mobile is a grand old southern naval town, clinging to the Gulf Coast. The stars and stripes flutter from almost every balcony as the soldiers parade through the town, surprising onlookers. As they begin their soon-to-be-familiar chants - "Bush lied, many died!" - some shout "traitor", or hurl less polite terms of abuse. Elsewhere, a black man salutes as a blonde, middle-aged woman, emerging from a supermarket car park, cries out, "Take it all the way to the White House!" and offers the peace sign.

SNIP

Blake says that the turning point for him came one day when his unit spent eight hours guarding a group of Iraqi women and children whose men were being questioned. He recalls: "The men were taken away and the women were screaming and crying, and I just remember thinking: this was exactly what Saddam used to do - and now we're doing it."

Becoming a peace activist, he says, has been a "cleansing" experience. "I'll never be normal again. I'll always have a sense of guilt." He tells us that he witnessed civilian Iraqis being killed indiscriminately. It would not be the most startling admission by the soldiers on the march.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1741699,00.html

See alsp SAS man quits in protest at 'illegal' Iraq war

[ronnie624]

27. It has been well established by innumerable reports

that the U.S. military is indeed committing horrific atrocities against the Iraqi people and if you are sincerely opposed to the criminal invasion of Iraq, you must accept this fact. When U.S. soldiers deliberately murder women and children in cold blood, they must be held responsible for their actions, and those who resist regarded as heroes. If they are not, what is there to motivate future service members to refuse to commit war crimes?

It is not easy to accept that U.S. military personnel are committing crimes against humanity (especially if you have family members serving), but ultimately there is no escaping the cold hard facts. We are all responsible for the decisions we make and the actions we commit and so too should each individual service member be held accountable for their actions.

May I suggest visiting the excellent website to which there is a link in post #10.

[JohnnyJ]

33. re:

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May I suggest visiting the excellent website to which there is a link in post #10.
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No thanks but I'd rather not. I know some shit is going on over there but I believe in putting the support of our troops over the allegations of abuse.

I'll say it again, stop wasting your time going after troops, all it does is energize the right and push more moderates and independents to their side by making us look anti-military. Go after the corporate crooks who sent them to Iraq and then we can really get down to the source of the problem.

[rocktivity]

41. re: "Supporting the troops"

...I know some shit is going on over there but I believe in putting the support of our troops over the allegations of abuse...

"Supporting the troops" means making sure there are enough of them to carry out their mission so they don't have to be overdeployed, ensuring that they're being properly equipped, paid, and provided with benefits, and singling out those who are screwing up so that their "shit" doesn't contaminate the ones who ARE doing the right thing. Anything less is a form of aid and comfort to the enemy.

:headbang:
rocknation

[wookie294]

28. Please refute this atrocity

A former U.S. Army interrogator said 90 percent of the Iraqi prisoners in U.S. custody are innocent. See link for proof....

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10882510/

The Red Cross reports that 70% to 90% of Iraqi prisoners in U.S. custody are INNOCENT. See link....

http://www.dailystar.com/dailystar/dailystar/21552.php

The U.S. military admits that the evidence against prisoners is justified in only one in four cases....

http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/37/11468

But the military is torturing these Iraqis everyday....

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2005/03/28/2003248098

And the U.S. military is torturing Iraqis TO DEATH....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4355779.stm

One soldier's account: "Guys in my unit, particularly the younger guys, would drive by in their Humvee and shatter bottles over the heads of Iraqi civilians passing by. They'd keep a bunch of empty Coke bottles in the Humvee to break over people's heads."

"Mr. Delgado said he had witnessed incidents in which an Army sergeant lashed a group of children with a steel Humvee antenna, and a Marine corporal planted a vicious kick in the chest of a kid about 6 years old. There were many occasions, he said, when soldiers or marines would yell and curse and point their guns at Iraqis who had done nothing wrong."

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/050205X.shtml

[JohnnyJ]

32. re:

---
A former U.S. Army interrogator said 90 percent of the Iraqi prisoners in U.S. custody are innocent. See link for proof....

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10882510 /

The Red Cross reports that 70% to 90% of Iraqi prisoners in U.S. custody are INNOCENT. See link....

http://www.dailystar.com/dailystar/dailystar/21552.php

The U.S. military admits that the evidence against prisoners is justified in only one in four cases....

http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/37...

But the military is torturing these Iraqis everyday....

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2005/03/...

And the U.S. military is torturing Iraqis TO DEATH....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4355779.stm

One soldier's account: "Guys in my unit, particularly the younger guys, would drive by in their Humvee and shatter bottles over the heads of Iraqi civilians passing by. They'd keep a bunch of empty Coke bottles in the Humvee to break over people's heads."

"Mr. Delgado said he had witnessed incidents in which an Army sergeant lashed a group of children with a steel Humvee antenna, and a Marine corporal planted a vicious kick in the chest of a kid about 6 years old. There were many occasions, he said, when soldiers or marines would yell and curse and point their guns at Iraqis who had done nothing wrong."

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/050205X.shtml
---

I never said there were no attrocities committed by our forces there. What I was getting at was simply that instead of focusing our ire at the troops -- and playing right into the hands of right-wing tacticians that tell the public we're anti-military -- that we should instead go after the crooked white-collar crooks(Cheney, Rumsfeld, among others were both CEO's before coming to their current posts) who sent them in the first place.

I'm not justifying it but if I were a soldier and 5 of my comrades were just killed by an IED, I might be more than tempted to go into the nearest town or village and carry out my own form of interrogation.

We hold our men and women in uniform to such high standards that it sometimes inhibits their ability to wage war. You think the Chinese would give a shit about the Geneva convention if Iraq was Taiwan and they were in our place? I think not.

Or the Russians for that matter or any other group? Probably not.

[AlienGirl]

34. "Everyone else is doing it" is not a valid excuse

Ultimately, the responsibility lies with the administration, but that does not excuse the people who failed to train the soldiers in Geneva Convention rules, nor the soldiers themselves. The precedent on this is quite clear.

Tucker

[JohnnyJ]

35. re:

---
Ultimately, the responsibility lies with the administration, but that does not excuse the people who failed to train the soldiers in Geneva Convention rules, nor the soldiers themselves. The precedent on this is quite clear.
---

That's what precedent says but I think we need to buck the trend. Look, keep prosecuting soldiers and you'll continue to see a populist backlash because it makes us look anti-military. Go after the millionaire crooks on top and the people will back you.

[AlienGirl]

29. "Atrocity propaganda"? Is that the spin these days?

That it's "atrocity propaganda" designed to make the troops look bad or to make the US look bad?

Everything old is new again...

Tucker

[ConcernedCanuk]

30. I don't think the reports of atrocities are "designed" to make anyone

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look bad

I fear that these reports of atrocities are just the sad, sad truth.

and maybe only a tiny bit of the truth considering the muzzled press

I still get a sick feeling in my gut every time I remember watching the bombs drop on Baghdad from afar

wondering . . .

WHY??

Iraq was of no danger to us, or it's neighbours, who refused to participate in the coalition's carnage.

I have no idea how this will all end,

But I'm pretty sure it ain't gonna be pretty

(sigh)

[AlienGirl]

31. I think they're the truth too, unfortunately

I think we'll be hearing more and more, though, that people are "questioning" them and believing they are "planted."

Tucker

[HuffleClaw]

26. there is a LOT of political pressure to deny this case

especially with our new neocon wannabe PM in charge. my guess is his case will be denied, but the federal court decision will result in his being granted refugee status.

"If the RPD determines that someone is not in need of protection, or that a claim is withdrawn or abandoned, then that person must leave Canada. However, a removal order is stayed when claimants file an application to have the RPD's decision that they are not in need of protection reviewed by the Federal Court Trial Division."
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/irpa/fs-incanada.html

[ConcernedCanuk]

37. I suspect this may be discussed with Harper & Bush

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Bush sure doesn't want the truth coming out, especially up here with us peace-luvin' Canuks

And Harper be kissin' Junior's butt methinks . .

(sigh)

[Bozita]

36. link to 16 minute VIDEO of BBC newscast -- chilling stuff!

Here's the post:

redacted (1000+ posts)  Thu Mar-23-06 03:27 PM
Original message
VIDEO: Are American Marines Killing Unarmed Civilians? (BBC Newsnight)

The US military has announced an investigation into allegations by the Iraqi police that American soldiers shot dead 11 members of the same family last week.

The inquiry comes a day after Time magazine published allegations that US troops went on the rampage, killing 15 civilians, after a roadside bomb killed a Marine west of Baghdad in November.

This BBC Newsnight excerpt originally broadcast Tuesday, March 22 as the top story includes a panel discussion examining the evidence. (Windows Media broadband, 16 minutes.)
http://redacted.blip.tv/file/20638


Here's the DU thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=735853

[RebelOne]

39. Where is the link to this story?

[ConcernedCanuk]

40. The Toronto Star banner is the link

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