Board welcomes Lib Dem action on Tonge's “anti-Semitic” comments

[Behind the Aegis]

LONDON (EJP)--- The Board of Deputies of British Jews has welcomed comments by Liberal Democrat party leader Sir Menzies Campbell criticising Lib Dem peer Jenny Tonge for claiming a “pro-Israel lobby” has control over her political party in the Western world.

Tonge made the controversial remarks at a Palestinian Solidarity Campaign fringe meeting held at the Liberal Democrats' Party Conference last month.

She said: “The pro-Israeli lobby has got its grips on the western world, its financial grips. I think they have probably got a certain grip on our party."

Campbell, the Liberal Democrat leader issued a stinging rebuke, denouncing the "clear antisemitic connotations" of Baroness Tonge's statement.

more...

[oc2002]

1. Why is it anti-semitic? its true. We here have AIPAC

Lobbies exert way too much influence in our government (not just AIPAC) and that needs to change or whether its democrats or republicans, the people lose out either way.

[Behind the Aegis]

2. Some points.

As you say, lobbies exert way too much influence in our government, so why point out just one? However, in this case, where she stepped in it was the "financial" comment. This is an old anti-Semitic canard. As for the comment on lobbies, I would say I agree, especially the corporate lobbies!

[MrPrax]

4. Strange isn't it...

that even though in a democracy it is perfectly acceptable for any group, regardless of who they are, to lobby for their interests. Apparently even suggesting that there might be an undue influence of a powerful lobby that makes NO bones about the fact it IS a lobby is again a special case.

Feel free to talk about the cuban exile community and it's influence over say, Cuban policy, Florida politics, and no one one would consider that at all racist. Moreover no one would confuse the exile's community hatred of Castro's government with 'wanting to destroy cuba'.

You can even talk about the energy lobby and their undue influence on Cheney's energy policy committee...and no one would consider you a some commie collectivist type out to destroy the world's energy supply.

But apparently we, the People can't be trusted -- to even acknowledge this FACT as our first thoughts are to destroy the Jewish community and Israel and everything else presumeably...it also relieves the Supporters of rightwing client states like Israel to explain in clear detail how Israel's interests are really important to say the UK or the US or Canada or any other nation, who derive next to NO benefits economically or otherwise, from continuing to support a country, that doesn't really give a shit what anyone thinks any.

Of course this is all terribly undemocratic having any powerful lobby groups using money, power and coercion to do things the public doesn't really support...but that's what lobby groups do; find ways to avoid the public and it's input because the lobby groups are well aware that the public doesn't like it. Why waste the effort in a losing cause convincing the planet that citizens in one country that you don't belong to have a higher claim to personal security than any of their victims. Even the stupidiest person is figuring out that they are about an expendible to elites here as Palestinian children are to elites in Israel.

[geek tragedy]

6. The allegations that Jews control the world through

the financial sector is classic Protocols nonsense.

The Left in the UK has crossed the line into anti-semitic language and imagery before:

[MrPrax]

10. How?

When someone writes up BS about Arabs and Islam being a 'religion of war' and how they are all in a conspiracy together to destroy America...which 19th century propaganda book are they getting their racism from?

Wouldn't people have to have read the Protocols in the first place. Anybody who has ever heard of it, knows it racist propaganda written by Tsarists in the last century...why would that be a reference point in 2006?

The only ones I know of that even mention this in conversation are Zionists and dyed in the wool Neo-Nazis? Why precisely would the the Left give up it's economic critique models dealing with power, wealth and privilege to simply please this one lobby group? Why would someone on the Left quote it or even read it? In my reply I cited two other examples -- refuting one poster who blithely writes with convinction that it's ONLY the Jews that are being targeted.

This is clearly someone who doesn't understand the Left, just like you. If people on the Left think that consistent application of international law, egalitarianism, due process, illegal conquest, is being undermined by a powerful well-financed lobby group they can draw from numerous examples...this is simply one of many.

Clearly why stories like this are being posted are simply done to smear the Left and immune an actual lobby of actual influence peddling that actually exists. The context in this case is quite obviously political. But the first thing out of the shoot is everything from 'anti-semitism' to the 'protocols'? Fine to claim it, but offer some proof if you would that Tonge is actually being influenced by said book or offer something tangilbe to the charge of 'racism'.

The OP itself is from a interest/lobby group (European Jewish Press...ergo why the 'more' link so people don't see the source and discount the thread/headline/post entirely). This IS posted merely to allow folks like yourself to write 'classic Protocols nonsense' and to catapult the propaganda. Or phrases like: The Left in the UK? Aren't you on the Left yourself? Normally capitalizing the word Left as a collective entity, like the Right does, and then CONFLATING it with everything you see as anti-semitic is actually far more disingenious than anything Baroness Tonge has done. Are you really trying to tell us that there is NO 'pro-Israeli lobby'. That's absurd.

But that doesn't stop Supporters/Lobbyists themselves from posting editorials from obscure 'special interests' when other stories from legitimate sources exist. The context of the posting is proof as well as the classic canned responses childishly claiming that some 'hate piece' from the last century is the culprit. How? There is no shortage in history of stories/books/parchments/ideologies by 'out groups' claiming unfair distribution of resources, wealth and influence? There is no shortage of propaganda out there. Simply because a book in history exists isn't actually proof that a person's comments are DIRECTLY inspired by that book -- unless proof is offered. But the charge is levelled constantly by people who feel no shame is smearing and attacking people who simply disagree with them. It's not enough to say, 'I disagree' -- you have to tell that person they are a 'racist'.

Is this really working for your cause?

When discussing a lobby group who promotes the interests of an identifiable country like Israel, does it become racism. Who knows? The same people that get right upset at conflating jews with Israel or the actions of the AIPAC, Likud, Sharon, but will without missing a beat, quote one-sided editorials from ethnic Jewish publications that continually confuse racism with the shortcomings of democracy, politics and leftist ideologies.

Simply making a generalization, doesn't necessarily mean it's always racist.

It's always the same -- a charge is made that this group has undue influence to the exclusion of other interests, and immediately the charge of racism is leveled. It's become a broken record

Never comes up when there is a discussion of Arab oil money and their influence on the Bush family -- in fact you can go out on the Net and go to any number Pajamas Media sites that use the 'blueprint' of the Protocols to conjure the same 'jacket' conflating every Arab from Michigan to Qatar in some devious plot. The Chinese government have a large well-financed lobby that works through the emigre community. Wal-Mart is one of it's biggest allies. A lot of people are angry about this, but their anger is clearly economic in nature for the most part...rarely ever does it go historical or more towards 'racial' and 'ethnic' analysis.

It's ideology, not racism...

I can post a picture as well

Why would the VERY Jewish owners of this national newspaper in Canada use Holocaust imagery to promote a war with Iran based on a completely fabricated story?

[geek tragedy]

11. Well, one would hope that people on the left (or Left) would

do better by Jews and Israel than the Freepers do by Muslims and Arabs.

The larger story is that this nutter was clearly repudiated by the Liberal Democrats. If anything, she shows the moral and intellectual degenerate nature of the upper class aristocracy.

[MrPrax]

13. And in two sentences...

you still manage to ignore everything that was written in the reply.

Her comments weren't anti-semitic IMHO and IF some lobby outfit calling itself the 'Board of Deputies of British Jews' manages to persuade the upper class aristocratic SIR Menzies Campbell, a leader of a political party, that they are...well to some, it merely underscores the existence of a powerful lobby.

But tell me something...doesn't it seem strange that your debating with a Jewish man in Canada about about whether or not what she said constitutes 'anti-semitism' or where or not it is the usual European decadence (which American propaganda book is that from?...Henry James?) and you really want me to believe that this is a threat to me?

Wouldn't you have more credibility if you noted, not upper class moral bankruptcy, where clearly this isn't the case between two knighted foes engaged in political struggle -- but the fact you live in a country where a prominent US Senator actually covered up his Jewish mother.

If you want to worry about 'anti-semitism' then I suggest starting there...or the fact that AIPAC likes to consider among it's friends the 'evangelical' right who definitely have little respect for Jews, clearly see Israel as a stepping stone for their Messiah's latest appearance and much more likely to be quoting the Protocols publicly for years.

But if you want to think some liberal democrat addressing a Palestinian audience in Britain is cause for alarm. You go to it, bubby.

Keep in mind...I am not the one being confused by what IS anti-semitic and what isn't...you are and you should probably be asking yourself why... ;-)

[geek tragedy]

15. Well, you're entitled to your belief that saying that "Pro-Israel"

forces control the world's finances isn't a classic anti-semitic meme.

And color me less than shocked that a REPUBLICAN racist hid his Jewish ancestry. There are racist loons on both sides of the atlantic.

[davidinalameda]

3. saying Jews control the finances is a not so lightly veiled

reference to the old Protocols of Zion

the Jews are secretly in control of everything blah blah blah

and it's nice that people are now subsituting "Israel" for "Jews"

at least the bigots are changing their tune-NOT

[rinsd]

5. Same tune, new lyrics

[Jim Sagle]

17. Same old shit, new and improved assholdes.

;-)

[geek tragedy]

7. There'll always be room for her on George Galloway's roster. eom

[Zhade]

8. If it's just that he said "pro-Israel", that is not anti-Semitic.

Reading on...

[geek tragedy]

9. So, saying that "Pro-Israel interests" control the media

and banking system doesn't strike you as anti-semitic?

[Zhade]

12. As I said, IF that's all it was. READING ON. Etc.

NT!

[countryjake]

14. Looks as tho the party of Liberal Democrats heaves further to the right...

as it publicly condemns this woman for statements which were obviously aimed at the increasing danger of terrorism in not only her own country, but all of the Western world.

Taking this one line and labeling her in such a way for it, when in fact the meeting she was speaking at and the thrust of all that she said that day, were for the purpose of drawing attention to the basic causes of upward spiraling terrorism, shows that, like the USA, the UK is bent on chiseling away at democratic principles as they fight to uphold their fascist principle of dragging whole nations into their "Long War" against "terror".

Examining the cause and effect of the policies which governments enact, seems to be one of the best ways of getting to the problem of real terrorism, so identifying those lobbies and factions who lean upon lawmakers to get suspect laws enacted and implement dangerous policies, would be the "democratic" way to discover and amend what are actually the root causes of terrorism.

[muriel_volestrangler]

16. The weird thing is the Lib Dems aren't particularly pro-Israel

For instance, it was they, rather than the Tories, who were calling on Balir to call for an early ceasefire when Israel invaded Lebanon:

Tony Blair hardened his defence of Israel's actions yesterday in the face of allegations from the Liberal Democrats, and some Labour backbenchers, that Israel was involved in an unacceptable and systematic destruction of Lebanon's infrastructure.
...
Sir Menzies Campbell, the Lib Dem leader, said the bombing could set Lebanon back 20 years. "We must all accept that Israel has a moral and legal right to live in peace within recognised and secure borders, but does the prime minister accept that right does not legitimise action that is disproportionate and amounts to collective punishment of Lebanon and in Gaza?" he asked. Pressed on whether Israel's reaction proportionate Mr Blair blamed Hizbullah and Hamas for disregarding "the welfare of the Lebanese or the Palestinians down in Gaza".

David Cameron, the Tory leader, supported Mr Blair. He said: "It is now absolutely clear for everyone to see that the involvement of both Iran and Syria in Hamas and Hizbullah is deeply destructive and needs to be addressed."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1823873,00.html

And as a result of what Blair and his foreign secretary Margaret Beckett did in the Israel-Lebanon situation, 40 members of her local party left - to go to the Lib Dems:

http://derbycitylibdems.org.uk/news/67.html?PHPSESSID=2e9de4a294086cd3eb7c5f2871886c97

And that was all before Tonge made her speech.

Just to correct a couple of misconceptions in this thread about the people involved:

"If anything, she shows the moral and intellectual degenerate nature of the upper class aristocracy."

Baroness Tonge recevied her title after retiring as an MP. She just comes from a family of teachers:

Google cache of Little Green Footballs (sorry about the source - it's the only thing saying what her parents did)

"the upper class aristocratic SIR Menzies Campbell"

Again, the 'Sir' is a title given to him for being an MP for many years.

Ming Campbell grew up in Glasgow, son of an Independent Labour Party supporting joiner who had worked his way up to become general manager of Glasgow City Council's building department.

http://www.libdems.org.uk/party/people/rt-hon-sir-menzies-campbell-cbe-qc.html