Switzerland May Expand Assisted Suicide Law to Mental Illness

[Rage for Order]

From AP:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070203/ap_on_re_eu/switzerland_assisted_suicide

A ruling by Switzerland's highest court released Friday has opened up the possibility that people with serious mental illnesses could be helped by doctors to take their own lives. Switzerland already allows physician-assisted suicide for terminally ill patients under certain circumstances. The Federal Tribunal's decision puts mental illnesses on the same level as physical ones.

"It must be recognized that an incurable, permanent, serious mental disorder can cause similar suffering as a physical (disorder), making life appear unbearable to the patient in the long term," the ruling said.

"If the death wish is based on an autonomous decision which takes all circumstances into account, then a mentally ill person can be prescribed sodium-pentobarbital and thereby assisted in suicide," it added.

"A distinction has to be made between a death wish which is an expression of a curable, psychiatric disorder and which requires treatment, and (a death wish) which is based on a person of sound judgment's own well-considered and permanent decision, which must be respected," they said.

More at the link...

This seems like an awfully slippery slope to me. At what point is a mentally ill person un-mentally ill enough to make a rational, lucid decision related to ending their life? If one is opposed to capital punishment for mentally ill prisoners, would the same standard not also apply here?

[Deja Q]

1. Fine by me. When will they allow emigrations to their country?

What, never? Fair enough...

[Botany]

2. But what about the Heidi cure?

I knew the mountains would make you better.

[KamaAina]

3. To my knowledge, there is no such thing as a terminal mental illness

That's what's scary about this. They're moving away from terminal illness to "incurable" illness. Few if any of Jack Kevorkian's "patients" had terminal illnesses, just incurable ones. :scared:

Yet another illustration of why there's nothing progressive about assisted suicide. More from disability rights activist Marilyn Golden, who, I can assure you, is at least as progressive as I am:

http://www.dredf.org/assisted_suicide/assistedsuicide.html

The movement for legalization of assisted suicide is driven by anecdotes of people who suffer greatly in the period before death. But the overwhelming majority of these anecdotes describes either situations for which legal alternatives exist today, or situations in which the individual would not be legally eligible for assisted suicide. It is legal in every U.S. state for an individual to create an advance directive that requires the withdrawal of treatment under any conditions the person wishes. It is legal for a patient to refuse any treatment or to require any treatment to be withdrawn. It is legal to receive sufficient painkillers to be comfortable, even if they might hasten death. And if someone who is imminently dying is in significant discomfort, it is legal for the individual to be sedated to the point that the discomfort is relieved. Moreover, if someone has a chronic illness that is not terminal, that individual is not eligible for assisted suicide under any proposal in the U.S., nor under the Oregon Death with Dignity Act (Oregon is the only state where assisted suicide is legal). Furthermore, any individual whose illness has brought about depression that affects the individual's judgment is also ineligible, according to every U.S. proposal as well as Oregon's law. Consequently, the number of people whose situations would actually be eligible for assisted suicide is extremely low.

The very small number of people who may benefit from legalizing assisted suicide will tend to be affluent, white, and in possession of good health insurance coverage. At the same time, large numbers of people, particularly among those less privileged in society, would be at significant risk of harm....

Perhaps the most significant problem is the deadly mix between assisted suicide and profit-driven managed health care. Again and again, health maintenance organizations (HMOs) and managed care bureaucracies have overruled physicians'treatment decisions. These actions have sometimes hastened patients' deaths. The cost of the lethal medication generally used for assisted suicide is about $35 to $50, far cheaper than the cost of treatment for most long-term medical conditions. The incentive to save money by denying treatment already poses a significant danger. This danger would be far greater if assisted suicide is legal....

The deadly impact of legalizing assisted suicide would fall hardest on socially and economically disadvantaged people who have less access to medical resources and who already find themselves discriminated against by the health care system. As Paul Longmore, Professor of History at San Francisco State University and a foremost disability advocate on this subject, has stated, "Poor people, people of color, elderly people, people with chronic or progressive conditions or disabilities, and anyone who is, in fact, terminally ill will find themselves at serious risk" (Longmore, 1999).

[seriousstan]

4. That will help the people with depression who TRY to commit suicide.

Now they won't have another failed suicide attempt troubling their already troubled mind.

[gula]

15. You might read up on the law before you spout B/S.

[TheWatcher]

22. That would be requiring him to think

Check his posting history and ask yourself if he's capable of that.

I can guarantee your answer will not have three letters.

[stillcool]

5. The act of taking one's own life

.. is to me the ultimate power one has. It's the back pocket, last resort, when all else fails, final solution. Life is very hard for some, and they will find their way out, without any assistance. I would not think asking for permission, or assistance would be in the realm of that decision making process. However, my thinking is probably a result of the mental health profession in this country, where to suggest suicidal ideation results in a trip to the lock-down-unit of the nearest psych-ward. I think of Switzerland as a much more progressive society, so perhaps helping along a miserable life to the netherlands is just too humane and compassionate for me to contemplate.

[ShockediSay]

6. Couple significant chronic pysical conditions, old age (with the connotation that things don't have

a chance to get better with time) with clinical depression (it's not sadness, what's depressed is the mind's ability to respond) I say this is not Big Brother Government's decision to make . . .

if too much is too much, so be it

(in the US we can always get someone to drive us to Georgia, and get a quick cheap handgun) ..... Which would you rather have, long slow painful resource depleting death, or something quick?

of course, if we all had the medical insurance our legislators do, - - - - that might be different

[ldf]

7. i have no problem. what. so. ever. with this...

quite frankly, the only decision involved should be of the one who is hurting.

it is the height of hypocrisy for either "fine feeling" folks, or the folks who hurt, but not quite as much, to try to force their limitations on those whose quality of life, whether physical or mental, has become unbearable.

none of us asked to be here. if someone wants out, it should be allowed, and it should be a painless process.

life is not THAT damn grand.

and i think that it is pretty obvious that the decision would be made by the person in pain, not some one else.

and, it is about those who are in pain, and not the people around them. we exhibit our true selfishness when it becomes about us, being left behind, in our own emotional pain, versus the one who has found their own physical or mental pain unbearable. we can get over it. they can't

but, in our rush to both prevent abuse, and play god, we would eliminate the option for those who truly desire it.

we could have both. the prevention of abuse AND a resonable option for those who need it.

but it will be a while before this country ever becomes that civilized. we are too steeped in god crap.

[alarimer]

9. given the state of health care and social services in the US

it sometimes seems like the better option. I mean I don't want to live with an incurable illness that will bankrupt me. Or permanent disability either. Now if we had a good social safety net in which those who were unable to care for themselves truly were cared for, it might be a different story. Having to be stuck in a nursing home with a staff that makes minimum wage is a scary proposition. I have heard horror stories. No way do I want that to happen to me. So when I get too old to take care of myself, I am taking myself out.

[Rage for Order]

23. Do you support suicide prevention programs?

Hotlines, counseling, etc. It seems to me that if you support allowing people to take their own lives under almost any circumstances, then there is no reason to have suicide hotlines and prevention programs. They're just exercising their power, after all. That's a lot of money that could be put to use in other social programs.

[Eurobabe]

8. Why not? If you lived with depression like it runs in my family

this sounds like a viable option. My mother swears this is how she is going to go, with a fistful of pills one day. Who am I to tell her not to do it?

Thank the universe I don't have the familial depression problem. It's a horrible disease, I also have a very close friend who is affected like my mother, and its no picnic. Sometimes there is nothing that helps, drugs, ECT, nothing.

[The Flaming Red Head]

13. ECT is a damn good reason to never seek help

I think it's why a lot of people try suicide and fail and then ultimately are able to successfully kill themselves. They don't want to go back to the fucked up mental ward.

I can't believe they brought that shit back. It infuriates me.

I'm a writer and I need my memories and my depression and my mania.

Edited to add mental wards are like a prison with no constitutional protections or rights.

[The Flaming Red Head]

14. What Hemmingway said about ECT

"What these shock doctors don't know is about writers and such things as remorse and
contrition and what they do to them. They should make all psychiatrists take a course in creative
writing so they'd know about writers . . .Well, what is the sense of ruining my head and erasing my
memory, which is my capital, and putting me out of business? It was a brilliant cure but we lost the
patient. It's a bum turn, Hotch, terrible"

In May during a second detention there] Ernest received a number of electrical
treatments. When they were completed toward the end of the month, Mary, was
permitted to visit him for three days. She reported that Ernest was even more infuriated with these
treatments than the previous ones, registering even bitterer complaints about how his memory was
wrecked and how he was ruined as a writer and putting the blame for all this on the Mayo doctors,
who had finally acceded to his demands that they stop giving him the ECTs

[Joe Chi Minh]

17. Surely, he wasn't forced to undergo them?

I know that in the fifties, a Catholic, lay organisation of the Swiss social elite arranged for gypsy children to be taken from their parents and the brains of the latter, surgically operated on (without their consent), apparently sharing the Nazis' belief that they had to be mentally and morally deficient/deranged - in fact the very affliction of the Nazis, themselves.

And if you are at all doubtful of passing a driving test, make sure you don't take it in Zurich. If you fail three times, you are obliged to see a psychiatrist before taking the test again. At least, this was what a Swiss girl studying over here told us about ten years ago.

[Marie26]

10. That's sickening. nt

[Vidar]

11. Good for the Swiss. There is nothing humane or "Christian"

about forcing those with extreme depression to live.

[sanskritwarrior]

16. WOW!!!!

There is nothing Christian about helping others kill themselves either........I think I'm gonna be sick.....

[Vidar]

18. Christ said nothing about suicide. An early pope decided to make it

a mortal sin, because too many Christians were martyring themselves to get into heaven.

[sanskritwarrior]

19. Who said anything about Jesus?

n/t

[Vidar]

21. Christian usually implies "follower of Christ", though that's more in

theory than in practice.

[Laughing Mirror]

12. I don't think the same standard would apply here

Capital punishment means somebody else is taking your life whether you want it or not. This is not suicide. The only person who should be allowed to take your life is you yourself or somebody you agree to assist you. When it's time to go it's time to go.

[davsand]

20. Sure would be a bummer if a new drug came out a week later.

I'm not being flip when I say this either.

I simply can't get my head around the complete abandonment of all hope. For that reason, alone, suicide is just not on my list of options. I will also say that having known people who did opt to kill themselves, I think that I'd probably never really consider suicide as an alternative to mental illness given the impact it has on everyone else.

I hope I never have to face it.

I probably would help someone I loved die if it was what they sincerely wanted and if the prognosis was a terrible quality of life or pain with no way to alleviate it. I'd have to be certain that they actually knew what they were doing, but forcing someone's suffering for the sake of keeping a heart beating just doesn't seem right to me, either. Again, I hope I never have to face that situation.

These, however, are MY opinions and not anything that should or would apply to anyone else. It isn't my call to make for anybody else.

I have issues with this whole ruling for a less personal reason, and it is the same issue I have with the Death Penalty. I honestly don't think the government has any right to kill off its citizenry--even IF that is just a court ruling.

Just my two cents.


Laura