Video of US friendly fire unleashes storm in UK

[Robbien]

United States and British officials have denied trying to bury details of a "friendly fire" incident after a cockpit video was leaked in which US pilots are heard weeping after mistakenly killing a British soldier in Iraq.

A British coroner's inquest into the death of Lance Corporal Matty Hull has reignited questions over whether the allies did enough to shield troops from friendly fire, and whether both countries wanted to keep the details hidden.

. . .

Washington had given the video to British authorities but refused to allow it to be shown to the coroner, saying it might contain security secrets.

The British Government denied hiding it but said it could not release it without US permission. After the video was shown all day on UK television, a US defence official said it could now form part of the inquest.

. . .

In Washington, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said reports of the transcripts of the incident showed a "clear expression of remorse" from those involved.

"These people immediately understood that this just was a terrible, terrible mistake and that they felt an immediate remorse for what happened," Mr McCormack told reporters.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200702/s1841902.htm

All day long the UK has been seeing a video about their guys being killed off by our guys. Here in the US, the general public has no idea anyone is even pissed about it, or that it even happened at all.

[Kagemusha]

1. Well duh, keeping tapes secret makes sure no one hears of it

The US Military is quite happy the soldiers know they'll be 'protected' if they hit anyone else's troops. Only hitting the US' own might bring consequences.

[Raydawg1234]

2. It said the soldier killed was in a take.....

Are you telling me that these pilots thought that his TANK was an insurgent vehicle?????

[Rose Siding]

8. Yeah- They'd been told there were no friendlies in the area.

I watched the 15 minute tape. They believed there were orange rockets on top of vehicles which were approaching a village. When the news finally got to them they were devastated.

[psychopomp]

3. Deaths by friendly fire

Happened quite often in Vietnam and goes on even with our better technology. When you have that much ordinance getting dropped and bullets flying around somebody is unintentionally likely to be hurt or killed.

[daleo]

4. There is less excuse for it now, though

After all, they have satellite imagery, vehicle and helmet mounted cameras, voice links, internet, etc. In this case it sounds like the pilots were uncertain, but the ground controllers were keen to "move foreword".

[Casablanca]

5. Exactly. More info == more error.

With our shiny new Nintendo Pilot (props to George Carlin) Technology, we don't even have to look the enemy in the eyes anymore. That would lead to fatal hesitation at the moment of truth.

Let the computer do the thinking, and just react to what it tells you.

[Xenotime]

6. WTF?!? Now are guys are killing Brits?

Was it an accident or are they guys just trigger happy?

[madfloridian]

7. You Tube took it down, according to AAR.

.

[saigon68]

23. You Tube (toob) won't show crap

They censor most IED explosions.

There are other places to get the "Real" story. Not some watered down PROPAGANDA SITE like you toob.

They however, have cheering videos of the US troops killing some Islamics

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. Well, at least the pilot was upset over it.

Imagine if he were laughing.

[Casablanca]

10. He might have been laughing.

They could have edited and/or provided a voiceover before sending it out. Given the PR stakes, I wouldn't put it beneath the military to do that.

[Rose Siding]

12. I don't believe for a second that our military could have faked the despair on that tape

Have you ever seen any military films? Should something so shameful have happened someone may have wanted to but I don't believe they could have.

I think this is a tragedy all around -just as when Iraqi civilians are killed. Nothing about bush's war is worth the loss.

[Casablanca]

20. Our military has its own worldwide PR department ...

Polls have shown that its imperialist adventures around the world are causing people to rethink the idea that America as a nation should be worked with, rather than against. Several years ago, the Pentagon formally identified the growing anti-American sentiment around the world as a major strategic threat.

I think that might be worth hiring a few well-trained voice actors and a sound engineer.

[pampango]

22. I am sure that our military does have a PR department. Every

big organization does or should. If you believe, though, that our soldiers and pilots are all blood-thirsty killers who slaughter just for the thrill of the kill, you're welcome to your opinion. I believe that 99% of them do the best they can in an unbelievably stressful environment where their mistakes, unlike mine at home, can have fatal consequences. Why wouldn't they be very distressed to learn that they had killed an ally helping them fight the war?

[saigon68]

24. Yes the War criminals in the pentagon have their own pr dept.

Lots of swill and troop boot-licking originates there.

[Lisa]

39. the pilots who killed the Canadian troops in Afghanistan were less apologetic

Not just on the mission tape, but afterwards, it seemed that they (and their hometown in the States) were more focused on blaming other people, including the troops on the ground who'd been hit. I seem to recall that one of them was more concerned about the error affecting his career.

This time, the pilots sounded genuinely distressed. And unlike in the Afghanistan case, they seemed to be in more doubt over whether to attack.

[sampsonblk]

11. Thank God it wasn't worse

It appears to be just an unfortunate accident. The pilots appear to have made every effort to identify the target properly, but it just didn't work out.

I hope they do not go to jail for this. Obviously, they should fly again. But this appears to truly be one of those awful things that happen in a war.

As a side note: No one should have tried to cover this up. Not acceptable at all.

[KeepItReal]

13. The cover-up makes it seem soo much worse. But that is typical Bush & Co.

Instead of owning up to an honest misstake, Bush & Co's DoD should've have just released the gun camera footage. They ended up making themselves and the British government look 10 times worse.

[Xithras]

14. Disagree. There was a genuine security issue with the tape.

Like it or not, this tape did just release an important security detail. Everyone who watches it now knows that we mark "friendlies" with two orange stripes on top. Since the military will now have to remark all of their vehicles, I can understand the reluctance to let this information get out.

Of course, the government could have just bleeped the references to orange stripes, but I guess that would have required them to think a little.

[jollyreaper2112]

29. tape

We've known about the tape since the first Gulf War. And if any insurgents wanted to know how our vehicles are marked, they just have to fucking LOOK.

[Nihil]

30. Really?

I hadn't realised that Iraq had been flattened so much that there were
no buildings tall enough to overlook a tank/APC! Or that there were
strictly enforced laws to prevent any Iraqis from looking down on a
vehicle!

Wow!

:eyes:

(There again, I bet that some of the standard news bureau footage about
"liberating armies" and the "boys at the front" would provide the same
information if anyone bothered to look.)

[rebel with a cause]

31. A lot of good those markings did.

The old saying is don't believe everything you see and only half of what you read, so I don't swear to any of this. But what I read last night was that the markings were seen and only one pilot wanted to shoot at the target. He insisted that because the ground report had said there were no friendlies in the areaa that the orange markings were orange missles on top of the vehicle. Supposedly he spoke of the prestige (?) that destroying the missles would give them. When he found out that it was indeed friendlies that they had hit, he was upset along with everyone else, but if they were all upset over killing one of their own or of the trouble they might be in is unclear to me. Not going to judge without knowing more.

[Show_Me _The_Truth]

38. And be subject to fools.

Fools, that would invariably claim those bleeps were bleeping out the pilots confirming they were targeting the British convy on purpose to send a message.

[Bhaisahab]

15. Weeping?

I saw clips of the tape on CNN International. I didn't hear any weeping. The only sign of remorse I heard on the tape were the last words of one of the pilots, who was identified as "Popov" if memory serves. He said -"We're in jail dude."

[Rose Siding]

32. Yes

There are links to the 15 minute video available in the article posted. I listened to it. A pilot is clearly in tears when he says "fuck me dead". (I don't suppose CNN will run that part) All are extremely shaken by the error.

[Irreverend IX]

16. Video of US friendly fire unleashes storm in UK

(This incident seems to barely have been mentioned in the US media...)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200702/s1841902.htm

United States and British officials have denied trying to bury details of a "friendly fire" incident after a cockpit video was leaked in which US pilots are heard weeping after mistakenly killing a British soldier in Iraq.

A British coroner's inquest into the death of Lance Corporal Matty Hull has reignited questions over whether the allies did enough to shield troops from friendly fire, and whether both countries wanted to keep the details hidden.

"I'm going to be sick," one pilot in an A-10 attack jet can be heard saying when he realises he has opened fire on a friendly convoy. "We're in jail, dude."

Another pilot is later heard weeping: "I'm dead."

Lance Corporal Hull was killed when his convoy of light British tanks was strafed by American A-10 attack jets during the second week of the 2003 invasion that toppled Saddam Hussein.


Here are links to videos of the incident:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e06da463d7

Youtube part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV_16PdWnBo

Youtube part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFdJ4X_wWj0

[Ninja Jordan]

17. War is hell.

[lligrd]

18. More Info On The Cover-up

Hull's widow Susan, meanwhile, told The Sun in an interview published on Wednesday that she "felt sick" when she watched the video for the first time, saying: "I always knew there was a cover-up -- and this proves it."

All I ever wanted was the truth about what happened to Matty, but no one was prepared to be honest with me," she told the daily. She had initially been told that such a video did not even exist, before British officials said they had no right to release it without American permission.

According to The Guardian, however, British military officials took part in a US military inquiry into the friendly-fire killing, with US air force spokeswoman Lieutenant-Colonel Catherine Reardon saying: "There was a complete investigation back in 2003 carried out by central command in co-operation with the UK."

"There were UK air and army LNOs (liaison officers) there. All the information was shared."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070207/pl_afp/iraqbritainusmilitarylegal_070207031206;_ylt=Ar1xPAmL.3Fhkes1jiRCg2XMWM0F;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY-

[anitar1]

19. I saw the film on ABC nightly news tonight. Those pilots will relive

this for the rest of their lives. After they were told there were none of our troops "on the ground " there.

[JawJaw]

21. Cover Up

Given that mistakes occur in war, the real crime is that there was not a process in place to keep the families of those killed fully informed about the progress of the investigation, and shown the relevant footage in private, if that is what they wanted.

Somebody - whoever gave the information that there were no friendlies in the area - needs to be held accountable, and it should be demonstrated that measures are put in place to try to prevent this mistake in future.

These families seem to have been treated very callously, with the mere existence of the tape denied until it was made public by a newspaper. Not a very good way to treat the military families of the closest ally in the "war on terror"..

[JawJaw]

25. transcript

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007060133,00.html

"the pilots — reservists who had never been in action before — made SIX crucial errors.

They left 25-year-old Lance Corporal of Horse Matty Hull dead and four comrades from the Household Cavalry Regiment seriously injured.


On the tape, one pilot — call sign POPOV36 - appears to gloat sickeningly during the attack.

He is egged on by the second — call sign POPOV35 — who encourages: “Get him, get him!”

Looking down at the chaos as a soldier drags burning comrades from the vehicles, he adds: “It looks like he is hauling ass. Ha Ha.”


A second burst of fire is unleashed 98 seconds after the first. Moments later the pilots are told the truth over the radio.

As they take in the horror, POPOV35 says: “We’re in jail dude”. POPOV36 weeps as they return to base: “God dammit. F*** me dead.”

[Umbram]

36. Incredibly misleading.

I'm not the "wave the flag" and support the troops, no matter what, kind of guy.

I watched the video after reading that transcript and to me those pilots sounded extraordinarily clinical. I heard no gloating and no encouraging.

I'd say that transcript was written pretty ridiculously. If anything, the pilots sounded very cautious about the whole thing.

[Iceburg]

26. Is this the original tape or a doctored tape of the incident?

The incident happened in March 2003, two weeks into the Iraq invasion.
When did the US military deliver the video to the UK military?
Why release it now?
Did the UK military perform any forensic analsyis on the video?
Do we know with certainty that it was not edited?

[orpupilofnature57]

27. Wheres Toni?

[trof]

28. Explanation of how this can happen from an ancient aviator:

I was a fighter pilot for half a dozen years.
Never in combat, but hours of 'simulated' combat missions.

At low altitudes and high speeds it is relatively easy to identify large stationary targets like bridges, dams, power plants, etc.

It is extremely difficult to identify small mobile targets.
You must largely depend on some kind of forward air control, either airborne or ground based, to identify those targets for you and even vector you in on them.

In wars between nations (think Germany, WWII) it's a lot easier.
EVERYTHING on the other side of the line of battle is 'enemy' and more or less fair game.

In the kind of mess we have in Iraq you don't have that certainty. There are no established lines. Friendlies or enemies can pop up virtually anywhere.

I feel almost as sorry for the poor bastard pilots as I do for their victims. The anguish you hear is real. These two guys will never be the same.

A bit about their flight and some of the 'pilot talk':
Early on in the video you hear concern about 'time to go home'.
A little later you hear one pilot declare 'bingo'.
Bingo means "I have just enough fuel to return to base (RTB)."
They were directed to this target near the end of their mission.
So there's the added stress of having enough fuel to get home on top of the desire to complete your mission and take out the target.

I've been in the low fuel state before and it's pretty frightening.
Especially if you know there's not a tanker in the area you can hook up with, and no alternate field you can go into that might be closer than home.

From what I heard on the video, I'd have to lay a very large part of the blame at the feet of the combat air controller, Manila Hotel.

[Bigmack]

33. Big flap over one "friendly fire"..

death. That's the Brits for you... they cry over every dead Lance Corporal!

The US, on the other hand, seems not to care about how many of our people - or Iraqi people - get clipped by accident or design.

3,000 troops dead so far, and the Senate won't even about the war. The US just keeps sending our people into that clusterfuck.

Says a lot about how a country values its people.

58,000 Americans killed in Vietnam - for nothing - and the US hasn't learned anything.

This country has no soul.

[Umbram]

35. Iraqi civ. accidently killed - "OOps, our bad," but a friendly soldier...

and there is a big ruckus.

I keep forgetting that human lives are valuated based on the flag they were born under.

[Bigmack]

37. The flap in Britain is...

bigger than any flap about "blue on blue" casualties in our own military.

It's almost like Murikans just take as a given that people are going to die in our military. Training accidents go unreported in the MSM. Friendly fire is written off with one word - "unfortunate". Bombing of civilians is just "collateral damage".

It shows a lack of respect for life that Murikans like to ascribe to colored people in developing countries.

[rocktivity]

34. Friendly fire ISN'T a crime--so WHY cover it up?

In the absence of gross negligence, friendly fire is a terrible mistake at best and a very unfortunate accident at worst. It's when it's covered up--especially for public relations reasons--that it becomes something dirty.

You'd think they've have learned something after Pat Tillman gave up a pro athlete career to enlist and was killed by friendly fire within a couple of weeks. Sure it was a public relations disaster, but look how much "better" they made things by covering it up! Now we're seeing these US pilots being unfairly blamed--they acted on incorrect information. They're not the criminals here--those who concealed the truth from us are. Admit it, apologize, and develop mechanisms to prevent it from happening again.

:headbang:
rocknation

[JawJaw]

40. un-believable

The PR disaster caused by the military cover-up continues...

ITV News (an organisation touched by the tragedy of friendly-fire incidents after the death of reporter Terry Lloyd) was interviewing a neighbour of one of the pilots. Couldn't believe the arrogance of the man - must have been a Freeper! Wish I'd recorded it for an accurate transcription of what he said, but basically:the US doesn't need the Brit's help, only it's co-operation. they had to get on-board and "stop sucking their thumbs like they did in WW2"

I can only put his opinion down to a caustic combination of arrogance & ignorance. This clip will not go down very well with British viewers..