CNN: Prehistoric lovers found locked in eternal embrace

[Bicoastal]

Check out the stunning picture on CNN.com--you may need your hanky at the ready.



ROME, Italy (AP) -- It could be humanity's oldest story of doomed love.

Archaeologists have unearthed two skeletons from the Neolithic period locked in a tender embrace and buried outside Mantua, just 25 miles south of Verona, the romantic city where Shakespeare set the star-crossed tale of "Romeo and Juliet." Buried between 5,000 and 6,000 years ago, the prehistoric pair are believed to have been a man and a woman and are thought to have died young, as their teeth were found intact, said Elena Menotti, the archaeologist who led the dig.

<snip>

[saltpoint]

1. Now that is hot.

It's humbling.

And amazing.

Good for those two.

[Parche]

27. PREHISTORIC

They were doing Dino porn together????

[saltpoint]

32. But I think it's humbling, too. A proof of tenderness reaching

back all those centuries.

I love it.

[Miss Chybil]

57. Why wouldn't it?

Tenderness reach, I mean. People still procreated way back then, (yes, it's true), and I bet they even combed their hair! :evilgrin:

[saltpoint]

70. I bet they didn't watch game shows or sitcoms, though.

[villager]

2. The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head....?

n/t

[liberal N proud]

3. Just in time for a pre Valentine story to get everyone in the mood

Go - Spend large amounts of money on Roses that will wilt before the weekend.
Buy that diamond necklace or earrings $$$$$$

Don't forget Hallmark.

Spend, spend, spend

[Bicoastal]

6. Didn't see any mention of fossilized roses or primitive jewelry in the story.....

No mention of V-Day, either.

A little bitter, are we?

[superconnected]

21. Do you know what a publicist is?

Who hires them, why?

So much "news" is actually driven by corporations trying to get you to think a certian way so they can sell you something. The bush junta pays top dollar for publicists to write stories that benefit them and the right wing. Just making a point of getting you to see stories that would have been buried to keep hitting you you with what they want you to hear is part of it.

I've written "news" articles myself that put what was "news worthy" in them to get printed in the paper along with what I was promoting. Doing it helps you recognize propaganda when you see it.

An article on ancient star crossed lovers right before valentines hits the mark. It probably is a chocolate company. They probably won't even mention their brand.

They know _publicity_ is a science. Sort of like in advertising where mailing out red envelopes gets more people to open the envelope. They know exactly the percentage of people who will. It's a science.

--------------------------------------------------
too much info but worth a read - some publicity notes:

"Editors control what does or does not appear in a paper, magazine or broadcast.

Advertising costs money, publicity is free.

Publicity is when someone sends a news release to a publisher and the publisher decides to print it. Publishers get hundreds of news releases daily and decide which ones their particular readers would prefer to read.

Publicity is always the most efficient investment in any marketing program. Even given the iffy nature of whether what you send out will be published or not.
Publicity is news. Not all news is from publicity. News that is not from publicity is called hard news.

Publicity gives you credibility, implied objectivity and possibly implied endorsement by the person reporting the information. It helps make people aware of you and what you offer. It can help you enter into new marketplaces to expose your products and services to new customers without the expense of an advertising program.

Publicity lets you keep things exposed to the public all the time, giving you public familiarity and awareness. Publicity is controllable, one of the best values of all the many marketing communication techniques. It can take as little as one person’s time.

Most advertising agencies provide professional publicity assistance and offer expertise and contact with key editors. But you can undertake a publicity campaign effectively by yourself.

Your first publicity move could be as inexpensive as a phone call, letter or short release to a limited number of editors.

Publicity usually requires a smaller amount of time and energy than any other marketing technique.

In order to reap the benefits of publicity, you have to issue releases. Many people feel there is little in what they do or offer that's important enough to warrant being published or broadcast.

Editors have been known to run stories about contests, sweepstakes, rebates, personal appearances, in-store appearances and more. These are created publicity "stunts".

An editor will select a release because he thinks his readers or listeners will be interested. Often the only new thing about your "news" is that you went to the trouble to report it.

Personnel changes with head company officers as well as reporting large orders are both acceptable information that is of interest to the public, and may be chosen by editors as releases to run.

There are times when no news is also newsworthy, for example deciding not to raise prices. You can also report whether sales are weaker or stronger, quoting yourself or someone else within the company.

Quotes are an easy way to get two or more releases from the same piece of "news." When something happens, first report it, then report someone from your company commenting on it - why or how it happened, what it means, etc.

Awards are another opportunity for publicity. This can include awards you win or bestow. Many firms create awards because of the publicity coverage they bring.

Publicity can build up credibility of your company. The more significant you appear, the more chance of obtaining a favorable, flexible position in bargaining.

Publicity can help you present yourself as a good concerned, involved neighbor. It can present your side of the story on community issues.

First: Decide what you want your publicity program to accomplish. Which audiences are you trying to reach? What are the returns you are trying to get? Write these goals on paper in your own words as they will dictate the direction you want to take."

[Bicoastal]

25. Sorry if this sounds arch...

...but I refuse to admit that CNN, in conjunction with the Associated Press, Hallmark Inc., a nameless choccolate company, and/or an international cabal of archaeologists, have all taken part in a conspiracy to make you spend more money on Valentines day.

I know, I know, Hallmark invented the holiday, Hershey and De Beers collects, it's a big scam, whatever. The fact is--if you're male and in a relationship, chances you ARE going to spend money on Valentine's Day. You can take any sort of principled stand you want, but it won't make any difference when it's 6 PM on February 14th, and you have nothing to offer your significant other but a hug and a homemade sock monkey.

But I digress. Nothing about this article made me instantly think of a minor holiday that's still a week away. No mention of said holiday was made by the writers. Sure, by any archeologist's standards, it's a puff piece, but I'm quite willing to accept it at face value, just as I did new stories covering the unearthing of the Pleistocene Leprechaun village, the excavation of a Sabre-Toothed Easter Bunny, and the May 5th discovery of a Neanderthal wearing a primitive sombrero.

I still think you're bitter. But hey, I don't have a date for Valentine's Day either.

[CBGLuthier]

26. not one damn penny

Been married for over twenty years and my wife is happy with it.

Heard an idiot on the radio the other day say you can forget your anniversary but forgetting valentine's day is unforgiveable.

What a load of consumerism BS.

I refuse to partake in consumerism. I can find one hell fo a ,ot of better ways to show my love than to buy crappy candy or sappy cards.

If LOVE=SPENDING MONEY then the whole world is so fucked it is past redemption.

[MGD]

31. If LOVE=SPENDING MONEY then the whole world is so fucked it is past redemption.

My feelings exactly.

[FlaGranny]

54. YOU might believe that, but

any woman in the WORLD is happy to receive a gift from her man, valentines day or any other day. I'm married to a very sweet man, and I have secretly wished for the nearly 40 years we've been married that he'd pick me up a bunch of flowers at the grocery store, but he doesn't think of it. It would make me feel like a million bucks because fresh flowers is one of my loves. And no, it has nothing to do with spending money. Picking them from a garden would work - if it didn't get him arrested for trespassing. :D

[superconnected]

30. You wrote that you still think "I'm" bitter.

I'm not the person you originally said you thought was bitter.

You don't know what a publicist is or how publicity is used or you wouldn't have acted like there is no conspiracy there. Publicity is all about conspiracy to get people to think a certian way.

It's a very powerful thing - news releases. Most do not come from reporters. Most are advertisments masquerading as news. Not all advertisements are for products. Many are for ideas and ideals. It's true. It's publicity 101.

If you would only spend a few minutes searching it on the web, you'll never look at the news the same again.

[TheWatcher]

43. He won't.

He would rather bloviate forth one-liners and chuckle to himself at how clever he looks.

Those who cannot understand or grasp how things work, tend to poke fun at those who do.

It makes them feel better about themselves, and it's easier than spending their time learning the truth.

All in all pretty lazy way of living and thinking.

But then again, objects at rest tend to remain at rest.

Sad really.

[Bicoastal]

59. ok, that's it.

Them's fighting words. Can't you guys appreciate ANYTHING non-political in the news without attaching some sort of judgement to it? I'm as cynical as the next person, but I try to take a break from it every now and then, and science news (unless it involves diapers and astronauts) is one of the few corners of the media I can find that respite.

This was a major find by anyone's account, and you're the first people I've met to somehow tie it all into some sort of commercial for Valentine's Day. I wasn't even thinking of Valentine's Day until you brought it up. Are the people who click on science stories at CNN such a highly coveted demographic for Hallmark that they need to spice it up with the discovery of two (possible} Neanderthal lovers? Please, wait for another few days, when the stories of "the REAL St. Valentine" and so forth appear on Faux. This, on the other hand, was a genuine scientific discovery that may be of great interest to anthropologists, and people interested in the culture of early man. Period.

I'm not Bill O'Reilly. I'm not Jay Leno. I'm a fellow DU-er who posted a story that interested him and wanted to share it with others. I'm sorry I called more than one of you bitter, so I will replace that that word with an apology and a heartfelt plea: Lighten up, please.

[lumberjack_jeff]

51. Damn. I had my hopes pinned on this stupid sock monkey.

Not gettin' any this year either. :(

LOL

[The Flaming Red Head]

55. All the half priced chocolate on Feb. 15

means lots of people don't get any.

[TheWatcher]

42. No just aware and informed.

You might try it sometime.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

4. imagine what the fundies will do with this.

first, they will claim that the couple is 6,017 years old, and therefore, this is Adam and Eve.

Then, they will claim that this is proof positive that the bible requires marriage to be between one man and a woman.

Then, they will probably make some other outlandish claim, so religious-based that I don't have the creative juices to even imagine it.

[HereSince1628]

5. Europeans clearly have greater curiosity of burials than respect

and reverence.

Anyone know how we came to such a balance between reverence for the sanctity of a burial site and our curiosity about the occupants of burial sites that so favors curiosity?

It seems the concept of resurrection of the dead which is so dominant in our culture is independent of the burials we sanctify to hold mortal remains in sureness of said resurrection.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

7. Wouldn't it be cool if this was the couple

that inspired the story of Romeo and Juliet?

[Tempest]

8. Corrected link

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/02/07/prehistoric.love.ap/index.html


I don't know. It looks like they could have been trying to strangle each other.

[Sal Minella]

11. Yeah. Maybe they just successfully stabbed each other to the heart with icicles.....

:7

[Kindigger]

23. n/t

:rofl:

[barb162]

69. That's a good laugh :)

But if they stabbed each other, how did they do the hug?

[earth mom]

9. Here's a Photo:

Seeing bones is normally a bit unsettling for me especially the older I get, but somehow I find this very sweet and comforting-just a die hard romantic I guess.

[jollyreaper2112]

47. uh-oh

But just imagine if these were two dude skeletons. I think I see a Snickers.

[jollyreaper2112]

49. my bad

Sorry, I just had to do this. :)

[The Flaming Red Head]

56. Maybe they were trying to kill each other

and died in the midst of it

[soleft]

10. They look like Rock em Sock em robots to me

[TankLV]

36. or is it the "bump 'em and hump 'em" robots?!

[Bonhomme Richard]

12. I think they froze to death and.....................

were just trying to keep warm.
I'm not feeling very romantic right now.

[theaudacity]

13. I hate to say, that is what the pessimist in me thought at first, too.

[theaudacity]

14. especially considering they both died at the same time.

[MGD]

19. That is my hypothesis too. This does not discount love between them

nor does it confirm it. It is also possible they both ate of the same poison berries or whatever but judging from the close proximity and the preservation of the remains, I am still inlined to go with freezing. It is touching regardless IMO.

[robcon]

15. Whoever buried them put them together.

It was a neat idea, but probably had nothing to do with how they died. They might not have died at the same time.

[Nihil]

28. Possible - that's all

Both were shot with arrows (one in the spine, one in the side) and the grave was
not surrounded by grave-goods (jewels, offerings, usual crap).

It is unlikely that they died separately by similar means and were left to be
covered in such a way (not a true grave according to the articles posted so far)
without dying in a very close timespan (think how awkward this position is for
an injured person).

More likely that they really *were* affectionate, fatally wounded (by whatever
unfortunate cause) and died in each others arms.

I suspect the archeologists have got a nice audience for this one ...

[errorbells]

48. Do you have a link?

I have looked for the cause of death, but could not find it.

[Nihil]

52. Yes ... but not the one that I originally used ...

> An initial examination of the couple ... revealed that the man (on the left
> in the picture) has an arrow in his spinal column while the woman has an
> arrow head in her side.

This is the quote I remember finding (hence my comment) but I thought it was
via the OP link ... which no longer has the full length article and instead
has the same brief summary as most of the Google searches pull up.

One that still has it in place is http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=434454&in_page_id=1770

(but wash your hands afterwards ... the Mail is not a pleasant place to visit)

[errorbells]

53. Thank you...

<snip>
An initial examination of the couple - dubbed the Lovers of Valdaro - revealed that the man (on the left in the picture) has an arrow in his spinal column while the woman has an arrow head in her side.

[Judi Lynn]

16. Gee, according to fundies' view of the earth's age, they died right after the world was formed!

Seems a shame they missed so much, doesn't it?

Five or six thousand years ago they're standing around, clueless, with no books, no tv, no cars, and baddabing, we're looking at photos of their remains on the internet.

[superconnected]

62. adam and eve?

[monmouth]

17. First thought I had was Rudy and Third Wifee.....

[mainer]

18. Lovers? Or was she an enforced love-slave?

We'll have to find out if one of them (her) was actually murdered. In which case she did not go to her death willingly.

[superconnected]

20. link?

[Arugula Latte]

22. Damn! Leave it to the Italians! (Or people who lived in what would become Italy)

Romantics all the way. *sigh*

[bigtime]

24. Prehistoric, hmm?

Were the bones of their dinosaur found nearby? You know, the one they rode to church?

[happydreams]

29. I don't believe it either...

since the Earth is only 4.7 thousand years old.

[C_eh_N_eh_D_eh]

65. It's probably two guys, too.

Edit: :sarcasm: just in case it wasn't clear.

[Arugula Latte]

50. I think they mean prehistoric in the sense of "before written history" nt

[FooFootheSnoo]

33. that makes me sad

[Oreegone]

34. Here is my theory

Shot by a jealous husband.

[Thothmes]

45. Shot

More likley that she was sacrificed to accompany her partner into the afterlife.

[caligirl]

35. Obviously, not a married couple. my son(23) says, hmmm.

:shrug:

[gtar100]

37. And just why do they believe it's a man and a woman?

They stated no scientific study to identify what sex they were. But by god the article sure had to point out - several times - that they believe it's a man and a woman. Hmmm...

[okasha]

39. It doesn't need a "study." The shape of the pelvis will identify a male or female skeleton.

If you read the article, you will find that they both apparently died of wounds. The man has an arrowhead in his spine; the woman has one in her side.

[booksenkatz]

40. Well, if it HAD been 2 men or 2 women...

we would have received "comfort" from being told that it was a father/son or mother/daughter. The media would never have allowed us to believe for one second that it was a romantic embrace, because Americans couldn't handle it.

The best, of course, would be for the skeletons to be two hermaphrodites -- that would mess with the bigots' tiny little minds so much, wouldn't it?? The Genital Inspection Brigade. Sheesh.

[FarCenter]

38. On the other hand

It could be humanity's oldest story of doomed love.

On the other hand, if you had two bodies to bury, and only a stone shovel, how many holes would you dig?

[Atman]

41. Captain Cynic chimes in.

Kids, kids, pay attention...Valentine's Day is coming up very soon. On CNN, the "anchors" (I wish) were fawning all over this story as "romantic" and "beautiful." With enough time left to get flowers delivered by next Wednesday.

.

[TheWatcher]

44. Oh but Atman

You're just being "bitter."

:sarcasm:

Your cynicism is well founded. And very justified.

[Zodiak]

46. Well, the timing is everything

and this is science.

Science takes months, years, to get one study published. It is not rushed out to hit the shelves like the latest Self-help book. This means that the release of this story could occur at any time.

It is only a coincidence that this story comes out a week before Valentine's Day? I don't think so. Now was the story released to make more money for candy and flower suppliers? Perhaps, but it is equally arguable that this story was just released to get everyone in the holiday spirit for Valentine's Day, and the commercial sales are a fringe benefit.

But I am not a fool who thinks that the media has been at this for decades on end and has not learned a thing about manipulating public perception. I am sure they have it down to a science to the point where well-placed timing does not happen by accident any more.

[Miss Chybil]

58. Bones don't make people buy flowers.

Boners, maybe, but not bones.

[Bicoastal]

60. Can you help me out with some cynics above?

As the person who posted this in the first place, I'm pretty surprised by the reaction by some. What, was the diaper-wearing astronaut planted by the media to get us all in the mood for Valentine's Day as well?

[Atman]

61. Big problem with that argument...

Why would anyone think a psychotic astronaut driving cross-country in diapers to kill someone would be romantic (in the "Valentine" sense of the word)? Whereas, it is incredibly easy to see what is romantic about two people going to meet their maker while locked in an eternal embrace.

You really, really could help yourself out by doing some research into what marketing is all about. I had a story published about me and some of the t-shirts I sell. It appeared in the LA Times, the Dallas Daily News, CBS Money Watch (I think that was the name), Yahoo Finance, and half a dozen other major publications. It was all about my John Kerry t-shirts, and was beautifully timed to coincide with the 2004 election.

You wanna know a secret? I wrote the entire story myself -- from a third person perspective -- and hired a press release service to distribute it. And every publication used my story verbatim as a "new" story, as I wrote it, without changing a single word. I even "quoted" myself.

You, sir, are one very gullible consumer. Marketing guys like me LOVE you. You might as well wear a target on your forehead saying "Guppy."

.

[Miss Chybil]

66. Congrats on getting your "article" printed.

So, are all the people who printed it "gullible," as well? Too bad, if they were. I'd like to think maybe you wrote a good piece and the editors actually liked it, but if they only printed it because they were too stupid not to, oh well... Congrats anyway.

[Atman]

67. I never said the editors were gullible

The editors knew exactly what they were getting. It was clearly labeled as a press release. And it saved them from having to pay for content. Perhaps you missed my point, which was actually directed at Bipol...er, Bicoastal, who seems to think that what I just described doesn't happen, or at least, couldn't have been the case with the embracing skeletons story. I was simply trying to demonstrate that, contrary to what Bicoastal seems to think, stories DO make it into the newspapers -- on a regular and recurring basis -- that are not "news," and are instead well-written "human interest" stories specifically designed by knowledgeable professionals to plant an idea, advance a theory or *gasp* get people into a certain frame of mind. Just as my "news" story was timed to coincide with the election, I am astonished that this guy thinks no corporation would have a vested interest in issuing such a story about eternal lovers the week before Valentines Day.

As I said, it ain't the editors who are guppies. The guppies are those (like Bicoastal) who think everything they read in the newspaper is there because some editor had his reporters in the field looking for hot stories, rather than sitting behind a desk reading stacks of press releases. Bicoastal is just clueless, and yet seems to think he is more qualified to spot a press release than those of us who've made a career out of this sort of stuff.

.

[Bicoastal]

68. Quit calling me names, dude.

You're getting way out of line, out of bounds, off topic...and you still haven't said anything meaningful about the story itself, just about whatever forces are (but probably aren't) behind it. I think it's probable that the phenomenon you're describing happens all the time, but I think it's pretty doubtful that it hapened with these two unsightly bonebags. Despite all of this, it's still a major scientific find that will be of interest to anthropologists and archaeologists long after February 14th has come and gone. And I refuse to feel guilty or gullible for posting it here--I save my ire for news items that actually have something do with current events, not two prehistoric people who died thousands of years ago. If they start appearing in advertisements for Godiva Choccolates and the FTD, I'll concede your point, but not until then.

About a week ago, I posted that an ancient village had been unearthed near Stonehenge. How come that story didn't merit this cynicism?

Also, see #59.

[superconnected]

63. you don't find anything slanted toward poetic love in this article?

"Although the Mantua pair strike a rare and touching pose, archaeologists have found prehistoric burials in which the dead hold hands or have other contact, said Luca Bondioli, an anthropologist at Rome's National Prehistoric and Ethnographic Museum.

The find has "more of an emotional than a scientific value." But it does highlight how the relationship people have with each other and with death has not changed much from the period in which humanity first settled in villages, learning to farm the land and tame animals, he said.

"The Neolithic is a very formative period for our society," he said. "It was when the roots of our religious sentiment were formed."

The two bodies, which cuddle closely while facing each other on their sides, were probably buried at the same time, an indication of a possible sudden and tragic death, Bondioli said.

"It's rare for two young people to die at the same time, and that makes us want to know why and who they were, but it will be very difficult to find out."

He said DNA testing could determine whether the two were related, "but that still leaves other hypotheses; the Romeo and Juliet possibility is just one of many."
"

[Miss Chybil]

64. Yes, I think Rove and Clinton wrote it so they could get money from

the flower and candy lobby. It's all very clear.