White House defends Pelosi access to Air Force transport plane

[sabra]

http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/blogs/politicalticker/index.html

White House defends Pelosi access to Air Force transport plane

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The White House on Thursday defended House Speaker Nancy Pelosi against Republican criticism that her desire to fly in an Air Force transport plane is an extravagance.

"This is a silly story and I think it's been unfair to the speaker," White House spokesman Tony Snow said.

Some Republicans are taking issue with the size of the plane Pelosi has requested. Pelosi, a Democrat, asked for access to a C-32, a military version of the Boeing 757-200, that could fly to her hometown of San Francisco without refueling.

"It's not a question of size, it's a question of distance," Pelosi said Wednesday. "We want an aircraft that can reach California."

[Sick_of_Rethuggery]

1. Please DU this...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17045488/

(Pelosi request)

[AndyA]

2. Done - 50/50. This needs some DU love, folks! n/m

[Canuckistanian]

3. Wow, a 50/50 response.

The spinmeisters have done their job well.

[waiting for hope]

4. Do another post with this....

It's at 50/50 right now.

[Whoa_Nelly]

5. Now 51-49

:evilgrin:

[liberal N proud]

7. Done - 51%

[rodeodance]

8. 52% * 8839 responses

Should Nancy Pelosi have a larger military plane than her predecessor to travel home to San Francisco? * 8839 responses
Yes. She has a further distance to fly Illinois' Dennis Hastert did, and there are security concerns about refueling. Her opponents are unfair.
52%
No. She's asking for a perk above and beyond past speakers. Critics who call this and "arrogance of office" are right.
48%

[Tippy]

28. Want to hear something funny Turn on C-Span

debate going on right now on this issue.....

Energy Commission is suppost to be debating biofules.....Republicans are hijacking that debate with the airplane issue.....it continues...

[Tippy]

33. Now the republicans arfe saying we want to debate because

YOU WOULDN'T LET US DEBATE THE MINIMUM WAGE...ETC...ETC...ETC...

[Qutzupalotl]

35. Now at 59%

[snacker]

40. Now 60% yes with 34,300+ votes. n/t

[atreides1]

6. Someone isn't being honest

The distance between Washington D.C. and San Francisco is 2824.5 miles, the C-20 has a maximum range of 4715 miles, no refueling until she makes the return trip.

So why don't we here at DU put the facts out there so that a reasonable discussion can take place!
Because either the Speaker doesn't know the capabilities of the plane or someone is lying about something? Which is it.

Primary Function C-20A, operational support airlift; C-20B, special air missions
Builder Gulfstream Aerospace Corp
Power Plant Two Rolls-Royce Spey MK511-8 turbofan engines
Thrust 11,400 pounds each engine
Length 83 feet, 2 inches
Height 24 feet, 6 inches
Wing Span 77 feet, 10 inches
Speed 576 mph (501 nautical miles) maximum
Maximum Takeoff Weight 69,700 pounds.
Range 4,715 miles (4,100 nautical miles) long-range
Load 14 passengers
Crew Five
Unit Cost $22.2 million
Date Deployed 1983
Inventory Active force, 10

[Justitia]

9. And what are the comparable specs of Denny Hastert's plane & his trips? -eom

[Justitia]

11. I checked, for Denny's 600 mi trip, he should have had a TURBOPROP or just DRIVEN. Maybe helicopter

Apples to apples and all that.

[Kingshakabobo]

12. Hint: You are quoting the "long range"

Which means under optimal conditions...i.e. wind. The trip out is at least an hour...probably closer to an hour and a half .....longer due to prevailing winds.

Also, they have to, by law, land with a fuel reserve.

Think before you accuse people of lying. Mrs. Pelosi will accept your apology now (after you remove your foot from your mouth).

[atreides1]

20. No apology from me coming

If the C-20 can provide the service then it should be enough. And with you being so close to Mrs. Pelosi why don't you ask her about the discrepancy!

[Kingshakabobo]

25. I don't need to ask her....

I've been a private pilot for twenty years. I don't fly jets but I know that when long range is mentioned, it means under optimal conditions.

It wouldn't have taken YOU more than a few extra mouse clicks, that you used to dig up range data, to see the issue at hand is optimal versus non-optimal conditions.

Here, let me help you. It's called "the google":

>>An Air Force official who spoke on condition of anonymity confirmed that the C-20 can fly coast to coast without refueling only under perfect weather conditions.<<

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2003562022_pelosi08.html

[Solo_in_MD]

32. It could go either way...but I would expect her to use the biz jet

and land if required (it wont be required every trip) than use a whole feaking airliner. It she does use the 757, it will be giving the other side ne more thing to beat her with if nothing else.

There are not a lot of jets just sitting around configured for this kind of misison, and the Gulfstreams are the right size for this. Fuel stops should not be requried for most coast to coast flights. Oh, and I do fly jets...or least used to.

[Kingshakabobo]

41. I could go either way also. As a matter of fact, I don't care.

I was merely enlightening the other poster that was calling Pelosi a liar re: "range".

[Dhalgren]

14. If the C-20 is smaller and more economical than the C-32 and has

a range sufficient to do the job, then she should use the smaller plane. Or is this about something else? I would say that the least expensive way to go should be the way to go - right?

[atreides1]

21. That's my point

The C-20 can meet her needs, besides, since it's an official military aircraft she can land and refuel at a military airfield, so the security issue is dealt with.

[Justitia]

23. So why did Denny get the luxury of anything above a turboprop or whirlybird?

Military has plenty of those that could have done the job for him too.

What I want to know is why the hell he scored a luxury jet that far outpaced his needs?

[Solo_in_MD]

67. There is special equipment aboard the aircraft

Comm gear mostly. There are not that many aircraft so equiped in the inventory.

[Justitia]

72. For the price difference between a turboprop & jet, they could have tricked it out pretty well.

And I still think he could have driven.

In TX, that's Amarillo to Austin. Our legislators drive that from the panhandle.
And then he could have dragged enough comm gear to have his own mission control.

I mean, since we're doing cost containment and all.

[partylessinOhio]

36. It's all about Pelosi's EGO. She was nearly flaming speaking to the press today.

Has anyone heard from Jane Harman? There you have a prime example of the rage and ego of Nancy.

FLY PELOSI.

[Justitia]

73. Nice. Maybe she wasn't going to take the kick in the teeth today.

And all of a sudden it's her EGO talking?

If you want EGO, you should meet the political vermin from my state, starting w/the president and dragging your way thru the gutter of Tom Delay and the gestapo congress critters.

Tom DeLay: "I AM the federal government!"

But hey, keep kicking our newly minted Speaker around as a distraction.

[MGKrebs]

17. I don't think anyone is disputing the refeuling aspect of this.

I don't know why there is a discrepancy with the specs you cite, but even Newsmax admits that the little plane wouldn't make it non-stop.

[Kingshakabobo]

18. They're not. The range quoted above is a best case scenario.....

.....not accounting for strong headwinds, etc. The kind of winds encountered on a cross country to the west coast.

[redacted]

30. Not a pilot but from the Bay Area and I can say we never have optimal flying

conditions here.

[atreides1]

19. So I'm going to trust Newsmax

Instead of the company that manufactures the plane???

[MGKrebs]

22. OK, how about Think Progress and Roll call?

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/02/05/pelosi-military-aircraft/

[Kingshakabobo]

26. At least Newsmax, apparently, looked passed raw numbers. and did a little homework - Unlike you. nt

[marshall]

75. Maybe she needs more ROOM than Hastert

Look at Pelosi and look at Hastert--it's obvious she takes more time and needs to space. Not being practically bald like Hastert, and with a better wardrobe, she needs space to get ready.

[TheDebbieDee]

10. Done.........

Should Nancy Pelosi have a larger military plane than her predecessor to travel home to San Francisco? * 8839 responses

Yes. She has a further distance to fly Illinois' Dennis Hastert did, and there are security concerns about refueling. Her opponents are unfair.
52%

No. She's asking for a perk above and beyond past speakers. Critics who call this and "arrogance of office" are right.
48%



ETA: I noticed that it still reads 8839 responses after my vote.......don't know what it said before I voted, though. Is it stuck?

[Tempest]

13. Goddamn media. Pelosi is NOT the one requesting the plane

1) The House Sergeant at Arms, not Pelosi, initiated inquiries into the use of military aircraft. House Sergeant at Arms Wilson Livingood, who has served in his position since 1995, released a statement today clarifying the facts. He writes, "In December 2006, I advised Speaker Pelosi that the US Air Force had made an airplane available to Speaker Hastert for security and communications purposes following September 11, 2001." Additionally, Livingood writes, "I offered to call the U.S.
Air Force and Department of Defense to seek clarification of the guidelines ."

[Megahurtz]

15. 52% Now......n/t

[hashibabba]

16. Done. 52% yes.

[LiberalFighter]

24. Poll at 53% with 13958 responses

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. As hateful as the right is,

let's fly her nonstop. I can just see a freeper type doing harm to Pelosi.

[mvd]

29. Well, what do you know

Of course, this stupid story festers while they say this, though. Pelosi needs a bigger get because she has to go to San Francisco! Is there anything they wouldn't exploit?

[Spiffarino]

31. This has Rove's stink all over it

Spokesliar Snow can issue denials all day, but when I see the Reichwing marching lock-step in promoting a bullshit non-issue, I suspect Karl Rove's fingerprints are on it.

[truthisfreedom]

34. Yeah, you rethug lunkheads, it's not about girth, it's about length.

Get it right, you idiots.

[Mark E. Smith]

37. I was an E-3 in the Navy ...

... and I used to be able to hitch rides on military flights.

This is a nonsense GOP diversion.

[cassiepriam]

38. Oh Oh. WH defending Nancy? What is up with that? Makes me very nervous.

[ThoughtCriminal]

39. This reminds me a bit of the "Fala" Affair

On September 23, 1944, Roosevelt gave his famous "Fala speech" while campaigning in the 1944 presidential election. ... Roosevelt addressed false Republican charges that he had accidentally left Fala behind on the Aleutian Islands while on tour there and had sent a U.S. Navy destroyer to retrieve him at an exorbitant cost

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fala

Republics...:eyes:

[DuaneBidoux]

42. MSNBC: GOP bristles at Pelosi desire for Air Force plane (What's the scoop here!?)

WASHINGTON - Republicans on Wednesday assailed House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's request for access to an Air Force transport plane as an extravagance, though former Speaker Dennis Hastert flew in a military jet as well.

<http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17035721>

I have to admit that on first reflection this seems a little much (maybe a lot much).

[Robbien]

43. Don't let media talk about Libby, or Iraq or anything of substance

Complain about Pelosi getting a plane while hiding the fact the GOP speaker got one.

[Purveyor]

54. Ding, Ding, Ding.... We have a winner here! n/t

[DuaneBidoux]

62. "They" are saying Hastert had a small commuter jet and Pelosi has asked for a 757

[Robbien]

64. No Libby talk, No Iraq talk. They just keep pushing the nonsense.

n/t

[DuaneBidoux]

74. I started one of these threads because I didn't really know.

Now I am convinced it is total BS.

[Pierre.Suave]

44. I suppose it makes the freepers upset

because it makes it harder to kill Speaker Pelosi...

[I Have A Dream]

55. I hate to say it, but I thought the same thing.

:(

No little planes for our Democratic leaders. :scared:

[underpants]

45. Note to the Republicans:You aren't the majority any more

She gets a plane just like Denny did. If she has the forethought to ask for a better plane good for her.

The Pentagon needs to shut its damn mouth and do what it is told by the civilian leadership.

[waiting for hope]

46. It's ridiculous how they just

run and run with shit.....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070208/ap_on_go_co/pelosi_plane;_ylt=Ap7DdeTd2_ufgcjk_PQyVdXMWM0F

White House defends Pelosi plane request

WASHINGTON - The White House on Thursday defended House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (news, bio, voting record) against Republican criticism that her desire to fly in an Air Force transport plane is an extravagance.

"This is a silly story and I think it's been unfair to the speaker," White House spokesman Tony Snow said.

Some Republicans are taking issue with the size of the plane Pelosi has requested. Pelosi, a Democrat, asked for access to a C-32, a military version of the Boeing 757-200, that could fly to her hometown of San Francisco without refueling.

"It's not a question of size, it's a question of distance," Pelosi said Wednesday. "We want an aircraft that can reach California."

~Snip~

Damn - the WH actually telling the truth!

[Silvermint]

51. Sure,

it's an easy freebie for the White House to appear bipartisan and friendly with a non-issue like this, so that when they stonewall later on with the real issues, they can pretend that they're not as partisan as they actually are. Classic example of an empty gesture, right?

[I Have A Dream]

57. Yes. n/t

[Kagemusha]

52. "the WH actually telling the truth!" I'll take it.

...since it helps Democrats in the war of public opinion. When the enemy gives you an opening, take it.

[HuffleClaw]

60. as mentioned in another thread by someone, they REALLY don't want THEIR

abuses of transportation *i.e.- cheney's hunting trips, bush's fundraising on AF1... to be aired as the result of this.

[Sick_of_Rethuggery]

47. Please DU this poll.

Her request is really reasonable, she does have a long distance to fly.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17045488/

[catabryna]

48. Pelosi has already said that...

if the military can't provide her with a plane that can travel non-stop from California to DC then she will continue to fly, as she always has, on the same commercial flights that have provided her with non-stop travel to and from DC in the past. The issue is not the size of the plane, it's the ability of the plane to fly non-stop without the need for refueling.

[Tempest]

49. It's a rightwing lie. Pelosi did NOT request the plane.

) The House Sergeant at Arms, not Pelosi, initiated inquiries into the use of military aircraft. House Sergeant at Arms Wilson Livingood, who has served in his position since 1995, released a statement today clarifying the facts. He writes, “In December 2006, I advised Speaker Pelosi that the US Air Force had made an airplane available to Speaker Hastert for security and communications purposes following September 11, 2001.” Additionally, Livingood writes, “I offered to call the U.S. Air Force and Department of Defense to seek clarification of the guidelines .”
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/02/05/pelosi-military-aircraft



And why does Laura Bush get a C-32 and the third most important person in government doesn't?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/10/05/MNGVULID961.DTL

[Igel]

50. I find the flap oddly humorous.

Sorry, I worked in a conservative church office in a former life, and found Jesus and God jokes fairly humorous (even though the ministers would have pitched a fit had they known).

It's a tempest in a teapot. Immediately after 9/11 Hastert should have gotten a plane--albeit a small one, since such a plane could make the flight to his home district non-stop. And such a plane is what he got. But the special treatment should have been discontinued a while back and not become a legacy perk. I'm not sure there's that much of a security threat, at least not a sufficient one to merit the plane. Whether for Pelosi or for Hastert.

Meanwhile, there's current mini-revolt over the 5-day work week in Congress; congressfolk, esp. in the west, are complaining that it takes too long to get back and forth, esp. given the lack of direct flights.

Simultaneously, Pelosi wants a plane that can make the flight non-stop, and the only such planes aren't small, but large. I'm sure that it's more secure than having layovers and mingling with the commoners, but it's far too Hastertesque of her. She can be one of the demos.

[FredScuttle]

66. BZZZZZ! Wrong!

Pelosi didn't request the plane. But don't let that stop you.

[sandnsea]

53. On first reflection

I always assume Repubicans are lying.

[Justitia]

71. and that will always save you loads of time, I've learned. -eom

[ileus]

56. Maybe Al Gore will defend her...n/t

[Frances]

58. I think this "flap" is intended to take power away from Pelosi

The Repubs' smear campaign is designed to lower Pelosi's approval ratings and thus decrease her power in the House.

It is also designed to make her seem too weak to claim what is rightfully hers so that if something happened to both Bush and Cheney, she would seem too weak to be President as she should be according to our Constitution.

A Republican male like Hastert deserves a plane. A Democratic woman does not deserve it.

[rodeodance]

59. Poll here

Should Nancy Pelosi have a larger military plane than her predecessor to travel home to San Francisco? * 8839 responses
Yes. She has a further distance to fly Illinois' Dennis Hastert did, and there are security concerns about refueling. Her opponents are unfair.
52%
No. She's asking for a perk above and beyond past speakers. Critics who call this and "arrogance of office" are right.
48%
Not a scientific survey. Click to learn more. Results may not total 100% due to rounding.

[rodeodance]

61. * 9948 responses

Should Nancy Pelosi have a larger military plane than her predecessor to travel home to San Francisco? * 9948 responses
Yes. She has a further distance to fly Illinois' Dennis Hastert did, and there are security concerns about refueling. Her opponents are unfair.
52%
No. She's asking for a perk above and beyond past speakers. Critics who call this and "arrogance of office" are right.
48%

[BeyondGeography]

63. Post-9/11 stupidity is at work here

Why does she need a freakin' military escort every time she goes home? She's playing by the rules, but the game itself is designed to make any West Coaster look excessive.

[JPZenger]

65. #3 in Line of Succession for the President

Pelosi is next in line to be President if something would happen to King George or Darth Cheney. It makes sense for her to have a military plane twice a week. It also makes sense for her to not have to refuel 3 times on each flight, which would happen if she used the same plane Hastert used to get to Chicago. Those refueling stops would be a security risk and a waste of fuel for takeoffs. Now if she takes the plane for vacation flights, then I have a problem.

[Solo_in_MD]

70. Your range/# of refuelings is inaccuracte

The Gulfstream can make it non-stop most of the time to the west coast, though occasionally the jet stream may require a single stop when headed west at a military base. Under no circumstances would it require anywhere near the amount of fuel that the airliner would require.

There are only a few planes in the current USAF inventory that have the required comms and other gear to support this mission.

Using the airliner will just give her enemies more ammuntion, she should use the bizjet and make the occasional stop.

[classysassy]

68. Bush&Chaney

two unelected frauds are using the peoples planes,surely an elected member of our house,should be able to use another of our planes.

[Pastiche423]

69. Out of a total of 48799 responses, 62% said YES