Atheist Group Takes on Bush Initiative

[maddezmom]

Annie Laurie Gaylor speaks with a soft voice, but her message catches attention: Keep God out of government.

Gaylor has helped transform the Freedom From Religion Foundation from obscurity into the nation's largest group of atheists and agnostics, with a fast-rising membership and increasing legal clout.

Next week, the group started by Gaylor and her mother in the 1970s to take on the religious right will fight its most high-profile battle when the U.S. Supreme Court hears arguments on its lawsuit against President Bush's faith-based initiative.

The court will decide whether taxpayers can sue over federal funding that the foundation believes promotes religion. It could be a major ruling for groups that fight to keep church and state separate.

more: http://www.kltv.com/global/story.asp?s=6124289

[me b zola]

1. Outstanding, I'm glad they have gotten this far

The fbi programs needs to go away.

[rodeodance]

2. whow, just whow

[Cobalt Violet]

K & R

:kick:

[Cobalt Violet]

3. K & R

:kick:

[Paulie]

4. I'm a life member of the FFRF.org

Keeping church and state separate, is one less social issue to divide our society. Being neutral offends NO one.

If you're doing good works, why not just let the works speak for themselves, without all the proselytizing...

The freedom OF religion doesn't mean you can override my freedom FROM religion.

[MindPilot]

10. Me too.

FFRF is growing fast, and the last convention was the biggest ever. People are getting really tired of government-sponsored Christianity.

[Zhade]

5. Happy to be #5!

NT!

[papau]

6. Interesting - wish it was on the merits of "freedom from religion" but it is not - the review is a

defeat for the foundation since they had a victory at the appeals level.


The 7th circuit victory by the Freedom From Religion Foundation in this concept is in contradiction to the same concept's results in the DC circuit and the 2nd Circuit - so the USSC really needs to say what the rule is for standing to sue over Government activity involving setting up conferences with religious people (which is what the case is all about).

Based on Flast, 392 U.S. at 102, and Kendrick-the only two cases in which the Supreme Court has upheld being a taxpayer only, no other reason, gives standing to challenge religious related government laws- the case could not be brought and the Freedom From Religion Foundation case will be rejected.

Seems the 7th Circuit is "legislating from the bench" as the saying goes. It will be interesting to see how the ruling goes.

I'm adding my own K&R as this is an important rights case -albeit not directly on the freedom from religion concept.

[Doondoo]

7. K&R

[Turn CO Blue]

8. May all Faith-based and "Feith-based" Bush initiatives end!

Kick for the Freedom from Religion Foundation.

[MindPilot]

9. The Secular Coalition is planning a rally

Rally with us at the Supreme Court
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

On Wed., Feb, 28, 2007 at 9:30 a.m, the Secular Coalition for America will participate in a rally challenging the constitutionality of the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives. Please consider joining us on the steps of the U.S. Supreme Court. Your right to challenge the tax funding of religion may be curtailed! The rally precedes oral arguments in Hein v. Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF). The Court’s decision in this important case will not be on the merits of the complaint, but rather on the standing of FFRF (a Secular Coalition for America member organization) to seek judicial relief. The Bush administration contends that its Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives -- established not by Congress but by Executive Order -- is beyond the reach of the Courts. The Secular Coalition for America is working with dozens of other organizations to call for oversight and accountability of faith-based grantmaking. Our position is that the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives and its religious activities are a clear breach of the Establishment Clause principle of church-state separation. We hope to see you at the Supreme Court next Wednesday. For more information about the rally and this critical case, please visit our Web site: http://www.secular.org/activism/faith_based_initiatives_070228.html Best wishes, Lori Lipman Brown, Director/Lobbyist

The Secular Coalition for America
http://secular.org

[Miss Chybil]

11. I wonder if they have a chance with the current Supreme Court?

Let's hope. Freedom from religion is just as important as freedom of religion.

[me b zola]

25. I know, I'm worried about the current SC myself

The facsists only need to flip one of the rational judges for this to go south. Here's hoping that the Constitution wins :crosses fingers:

[shrike]

12. I think this is great

I'm Roman Catholic and I've always found the faith-based grants concept outrageous.

Not only does it discriminate against secular groups, but groups of faithful whose religion is not mainstream -- how many Pagans get government grants, do you think?

I have wondered for a while when someone was going to take this on, and now I read of this lawsuit. I'll be interested to see what happens.

[Ian David]

13. See related thread: Rally at the US Supreme Court Wed. Feb 28th against Faith-Based Initiatives

Rally at the US Supreme Court Wed. Feb 28th against Faith-Based Initiatives
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=106&topic_id=30271&mesg_id=30271

[maddezmom]

15. gave it an R, now going to give it a kick

:hi:

[montanto]

14. K&R bigtime, plus going off to join.

thanks for spreading this.

[Mrspeeker]

16. Separation Of Church and state

thats right keep these damn religious nut jobs out of government and law making!

K&R

[keepCAblue]

17. Walter Cronkite on SOC&S...Feb. 23, San Jose

WALTER CRONKITE ON CHURCH AND STATE

Friday, February 23, 12:00 p.m.
San Jose McEnery Convention Center, Meeting Room J
150 W. San Carlos St., San Jose
$35 | www.commonwealthclub.org

Walter Cronkite, "the most trusted man in America," talks about his involvement in First Freedom First, a new national movement devoted to the constitutional separation of church and state.


Should be a great talk...

[NMMNG]

18. Woo-hoo

:woohoo:

Here's to neutrality!

[Maraya1969]

19. I think you can call Atheism a religion. It's faith is in people rather than a God.

Just a thought. Wicca believes in the powers of the earth and universe, (something like that) and Mormons believe that the Black people are cursed and cannot enter Heaven unless they do as slaves. That is very strange indeed. So if they can be considered a faith based group why can't someone who is an Atheist. Also Buddhism don't not acknowledge any supreme being but the connectedness of all people.

We just have to make sure "faith based " does not mean "faith" in a God. And I don't think it necessarily does. I have faith in my family. Who gets to say that is not enough. :shrug:

[maddezmom]

20. Most Atheists I know do not want to be described as a having faith

or being labeled as a religion. It kinda goes against the whole thought process. :shrug: For the record I consider my elf a Christian, but have seen myself agreeing more and more with my Atheist brothers and sisters in the last years. :)

[immoderate]

23. You won't get government grants for faith in your family.

I understand what you are saying, but you won't get anything but flames from atheists around here if you call atheism a faith or a religion.

In this situation faith based DOES mean faith in god. You don't get to call the shots.

--IMM

[trotsky]

28. Ahem.

You don't define my atheism for me, and I won't define your religion for you. Deal?

[Warpy]

33. Please don't try to define us in your own terms.

We have a total lack of belief in gods and religions. We haven't substituted one faith for another; there is simply nothing there. We may love our families and we may rely on each other, but it's one hell of a stretch to call that a codified faith.

We have no liturgy, no holy writ, no hymnal, no missal, no catechism, and we're as different from each other as people can possibly be. The only things we all have in common are realizing there is nobody at the other end of that prayer line and being honest enough to admit it.

You don't have to understand it. In fact, you don't even have to try to understand it. All we need is acceptance. We won't try to convert you, honest.

[NMMNG]

35. Athiesm is not a religion and it has no faith

Atheism is the lack of belief and faith, and involves no worship of any kind. It is in no way a religion. Athiests do not "substitute" faith in/worship of people (or anything/anybody else) for faith in/worship of gods. They simply do not believe in gods.

[MasonJar]

21. You're talking about the USSC, of course. They are not going to

find against Bush, much less God.

[Pastiche423]

22. Or...

They are not going to find for our Bill of Rights, much less our Constitution.

[tbyg52]

24. I'm a member,

though not a life member as yet. Seriously considering it though. They do great work, and their newsletter is wonderful.

[Martin Eden]

26. God is already in government because ...

... God is in chimpy's head and tells him what to do.

Or maybe he's just hearing voices like any run-of the-mill psychopath.

More likely it's shooter Dick whispering in his ear.

[olddad56]

27. I wonder how Bush's kangaroo court will vote on this one?

[Synnical]

37. That's the point

Will they rule on the point of law and the Constitution, or no?

[JoFerret]

29. The small quiet voice of reason

Let's hear those voices from all people included those faith inflected.

[Rainscents]

30. She is fighting for all of us!!!

Us mean... One who truly believes in GOD out of Government and I am one of them!!!
K & R!!! :kick: :kick: :kick:

[Phrogman]

31. Man needs religion....

like a fish needs a bicycle!
K&R

[onager]

32. You may never appreciate freedom from religion...

...until you live in a place that doesn't have it.

Front-page story today, 2/23/07, from the Egyptian Gazette:

Blogger Jailed For 3 Years

An Alexandria court sentenced a blogger to three years in prison yesterday for insulting Islam, the Middle East News Agency (MENA) said.

The court sentenced Abdul Karim Suleiman to three years for insulting Islam, it added.

The 22-year-old blogger, also known by his pen name Karim Amer, was arrested after posting an entry on his blog lashing out at Al-Azhar University--the highest seat of Sunni Islamic teaching.

Do a Google on his name for a lot more information. As most of you know, I'm an American who has been living\working in Egypt for over a year now.

Thanks, maddezmom. K&R!

on Edit: well, kicked anyway. Too late to Recommend. G-r-r...

[maddezmom]

34. You're very welcome

I posted that story yesterday, but it dropped like a rock. :hi:

[and-justice-for-all]

36. I just joined FFRF....

*'s Faithed Based Bullshit is unconstitutional. * has recognized the establishment of religion and thats exactly the opposite of what is stated in the constitution.

RELIGION IS JUNK FOOD FOR THE BRAIN AND A CANCER UPON SOCIETY.

[Duppers]

38. Attorney General Gonzales Deputizes 20 Million Right Leaning Christians?

Check it out:
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2007/2/22/104711/204

Kpete had a journal entry on it too:
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/kpete/2645