Inmates to replace immigrant farm workers(Colorado)

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5382036,00.html

State prison inmates may soon be working the farm fields of Colorado as immigrant labor becomes more difficult to find due to tightening down of immigration laws.

The Pueblo Chieftain today reports that a pilot project would operate under the Department of Correction’s Correctional Industries Program that helps inmates find work while in prison so they can learn a skill at the same time.

DOC executive director Ari Zavaras said the program fits in the emphasis he and Gov. Bill Ritter have on reducing recidivism, which, in turn, cuts down on funding needed to build new prisons.

State Rep. Dorothy Butcher, D-Pueblo, started the idea with area farmers who complained the new crackdown on immigration and stringent documentation rules adopted by the Department of Revenue has made it impossible to find labor for their fields.

[angstlessk]

1. bendiing over and picking vegitables is a skill now? WOW

I am truly aghast...why not PAY for HARD WORK?...we pay lots for NOT SO HARD work (see CEO salaries)

[zalinda]

2. Yup, I can see it now

All these parolees telling their parole officer, man if it wasn't for working that farm, I'd be back robbing gas stations. :sarcasm:


A lot of these people ended up in prison because they wanted to make a fast buck, anyway they could. Do these people seriously think that prisoners are going to make a career out of picking fruit or vegetables!!!!

zalinda

[babylonsister]

3. Tightening immigration laws? How many are in jail now? nt

[Peggy Day]

4. It costs $40,000/year to house an inmate-I think they should contribute to their upkeep.

[Rage for Order]

5. I agree

Since their own behavior is what got them put behind bars in the first place, let prisoners defray some of the costs of their incarceration. Make it optional and pay the prisoners $.50 an hour in prison store credit. I'm sure there'd be plenty of people who would rather spend the day outdoors picking fruits and vegetables than indoors in a cage.

[uncle ray]

14. i'd pay them a real, competitive wage

in real money, not store credit. let them bank money so they have something to help start their difficult life after their eventual release. treat them like humans in prison, and you stand a better chance they'll behave like humans outside.

[Rage for Order]

32. Don't know that society would go for that

Most citizens wouldn't approve of the idea of prisoners making $8-$10 an hour working while they're in prison. Even if they did, most prisoners would still likely end up with nothing because their victims would probably sue them for damages if they knew they were drawing a weekly paycheck that could be garnished. Then, of course, there's the issue of letting prisoners make money in prison while not doing anything to offset the costs incurred when they committed an offense in the first place.

I do agree, though, that by assisting prisoners during their transition from prison to freedom there would be a much lower rate of rescidivism.

[Bridget Burke]

49. There goes the "immigrants hurt American labor" argument.

I thought the undocumented were keeping wages low. Why not raise wages for agricultural work so 'Murkins can earn some real money?

Lots of prisoners work behind bars. And outside--ever heard of a P farm? And they work for very low wages. But they are under guard.

[saigon68]

17. This guy would agree

Arbeit Macht Frei (Labor Liberates)

[Rage for Order]

30. That's why you make it voluntary

I'm not advocating forced labor. Use prisoners that are interested in doing the work. I know I'd rather spend the day outdoors picking produce than indoors at prison.

[Bridget Burke]

50. You can already work outdoors!

If you were in prison in Texas, that is.

From the list of Texas Prisons, I picked Jester Unit I at random; it's for Substance Abuse Offenders. Here are the Agricultural Operations:

Security Horses/Dogs, Swine Finishing Operation, Texas Fresh Approach Food Bank Program, Edible and Field Crops, Unit Garden

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/unitdirectory/j1.htm

Select "Return to Unit Directory" to see all the wonderful options offered by the TDC.

[sandnsea]

15. I think they should have treatment

drug or mental health, and have their health insurance pay for it from their living wage job.

[951-Riverside]

6. but but but immy-grents do the work Americans won't do

:eyes:

[silverojo]

7. ROTFL!

I think it's a good idea. Especially those who committed crimes for a fast buck--they deserve to find out the hard way, where honest people get the $$ for them to steal.

[EFerrari]

51. If that weren't true, why do we need conscripts?

:eyes:

[DBoon]

8. That's why they need to arrest lots of nonviolent drug offenders

Keep up the supply of a plyable inmate work force.

Can't pay enough to hire workers? No problem - we will just send some inmates your way

[mitchum]

31. Exactly, that's the old high sheriff model

and that is exactly what they are up to

[PsN2Wind]

9. Twelve million illegal immigrants

residing in the United States and the farmers are unable to find the help to harvest their crops. But "They're doing the work citizens won't".

[Marie26]

10. Isn't that the point?

They've cracked down on illegal immigrants, and now there's no one left to harvest the crops. If immigrants were truly taking jobs that Americans really wanted, there wouldn't be this labor shortage, right? Why don't they just take all the immmigrants we've locked up in detention centers to harvest the crops - win/win.

[bluetrain]

11. Yeah, slave labor. /eom

[Contrite]

13. Cost and appeasement.

Inmates are "free" (well, not really, given what it takes to house them), or at least "cost-effective" since they are being fed on taxpayer money.

Immigrants are a "problem" for the GOP base. Can't have illegals working, ya know. Hey, so if you lock 'em up for being "illegals", you can then put them to work in exchange for their "keep", right?

So, hello chain gangs. Problem solved.

International Standards

Amnesty International believes that the practice of using chain gangs constitutes cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment, prohibited under Article 7 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, (ICCPR) ratified by the US Government on 8 June 1992.

Article 10 of the ICCPR says: All persons deprived of their liberty shall be treated with humanity and with respect for the inherent dignity of the human person.

Article 33 of the United Nations Standard Minimum Rules for the Treatment of Prisoners (SMR) states: instruments of restraint, such as handcuffs, chains, irons and strait jackets, shall never be applied as a punishment. Furthermore, chains or irons shall not be used as restraints.

Article 45 (1) of the SMR states: When prisoners are being removed to or from an institution, they shall be exposed to public view as little as possible, and proper safeguards shall be adopted to protect them from insult, curiosity and publicity in any form.

[Marie26]

24. Yeah, much easier to bring back chain gangs

then do something rational like issuing visas for migrant farmworkers. The only thing cheaper than undocumented labor is prisoner labor.

[Judi Lynn]

12. We already have the world's highest per capital prison population,

people have been trying for ages to undo the government's imprisonment of people for small offenses, struggling to decriminalize marijuana, etc., and we've instead been feeding a growing prison construction industry, as the right-wingers have been pressing forward to privatize prisons, making them profitable, and beyond that, to force religion upon the inmates, while taking taxpayers' money for their faith-based assistance.

So now we are in a position to turn the corner, and turn the inmates out into the fields to work for nothing, or for pennies, thereby setting in motion even more incentive to get even more people into jail, etc.

This couldn't be further from the goals and beliefs of the Democratic Party since the very beginning. I don't believe there are any real Democrats who favor this.

Outsourcing our jobs to other countries? Shutting down our manufacturing? Starting to go after white collar jobs in large numbers now, as well as the remaining blue collar jobs? Leaves a lot of desperate people without income. If they start drinking more, from depression, using more drugs for stress, fine. We're continually reducing the amount of alcohol in the blood stream to send people to jail if they are caught driving. Eventually our prisons will be the only thing growing here.

They'll be waiting for the new classes of prisoners with more varieties of slave labor. This is sick, depraved, and it's going to have to be reversed.

Right-wing idiots don't need to gloat about this now, at least at a Democratic message board. If you knew anything at all about history, you'd know Democrats don't think like that. Parasitic wingers may, but not Democrats.

[MGD]

16. How nice, trading one group of slaves for another. The wealthy landowners will be happy either way

I'm sure.

[tanyev]

18. That will last until one of them escapes and does something horrific

and the program is canceled in a fit of newfound public outrage--outrage most likely fueled by Republicans campaigning for political office.

[alarimer]

19. They get paid even less than illegal immigrants

It's a win-win situation for the rich fuckers that want cheap labor.
And they can't complain when they get sprayed by pesticides and later get cancer.

[noamnety]

20. Gee, maybe with global warming

they'll be able to plant cotton for 'em to pick. :sarcasm:

The racist fucks we like to refer to as the Founding Fathers would be proud of our prison system.

[sweetheart]

21. slaves

Lovely to see them showing off the slavery in the fields, as if there is ANY merit in showing off slavery.

[donsu]

22. agree - slaves - got to keep those private prisons full so the

CEOs can keep on making profit

the portion of people in prison for weed is huge. none of them should be in jail much less working the fields for criminal CEOs

[anotherdrew]

23. how are they anything but slaves? don't we bitch at china about prison labor? n/t

[AlCzervik]

25. will the inmates be paid minimum wage by the farm owners or is the state

subsidizing it and will the farm owners pay workers comp or does the state subsidize that as well?

[High Plains]

26. Ah guess them immigrants was gettin' too uppity...

...what with their marching around and all.

[cap]

27. it wont work

no one is hiring farmworkers at a livable wage. So those inmates wont learn anything that translates into a job skill.

[earth mom]

28. This is insulting to the working class.

Pay some decent goddamn wages and you wouldn't have a problem finding workers! :grr:

Also, I do think inmates should be doing work of some kind, just not work where private businesses are profitting from their labor. :grr:

[mitchum]

29. Just like in the early 20th century south when the high sheriff...

would contract out inmate labor.
Welcome to the 21st century.

[Thor_MN]

33. What's this? Looks like you got a tail light out, son...

[WePurrsevere]

34. kick

"kick:

[kskiska]

35. Colorado convicts to work on farms

By Nicholas Riccardi

Los Angeles Times

DENVER — Ever since passing what its legislature touted as the nation's toughest law against illegal immigrants last summer, Colorado has struggled with a labor shortage as migrants fled the state. This week, officials announced a novel solution: Use convicts as farmworkers.

The Department of Corrections hopes to launch a pilot program this month — thought to be the first of its kind — that would contract with more than a dozen farms to provide inmates who will pick melons, onions and peppers. Crops were left to spoil in the fields after passage of the law, which required state identification to obtain government services and allowed police to check suspects' immigration status.

"The reason this started is to make sure the agricultural industry wouldn't go out of business," state Rep. Dorothy Butcher said. Her district includes the city of Pueblo, near the farmland where the convicts will work.

Inmates who are a low security risk may choose to work in the fields, earning 60 cents a day. They also are eligible for small bonuses.

more…
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003596564_farm02.html

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

36. Oh well...

At least this will improve folk music/chain gang songs. :eyes:

[WindRavenX]

37. This sickens me tremendously.

:puke:

[mike_c]

38. so what does this do to the argument that illegal immigrants are stealing...

...those jobs from Americans willing to work them? Americans, it seems, are only willing to work for agricultural wages if they're in prison, and even that hasn't been demonstrated yet. Slave labor, anyone...?

[Judi Lynn]

39. LIke getting a foot in the door which can't be shut again, it invites greater and greater

use of convicts to do slave work, in the country with the world's largest per capital prison population already, and a problem with employment, as jobs have been outsourced, and fewer people have actual income.

Privatize prisons, install faith-based operations in them, and badda bing, you've got a whole new world of far more convictions, as new crimes are invented, more right-wing judges and prosecutors are appointed, old crimes are adjusted to favor more incarcerations, like a continual lowering of blood alcohol limits, and eventually you really will have a prison planet with only a few very wealthy, and completely free (as long as they play the game) people.

This is a BAD move.

[politicat]

40. Wow... someone had to be fogging the statehouse with drugs.

Because I honestly can't believe that this is our State Assembly. They've done some really stupid shit (like trying to require kids to say the pledge and putting In God We Trust in all government buildings) but this is beyond their normal.

Either that, or they're playing logical consequences because we, the public, were warned that we could not have it both ways - cheap ag and no migrant workers.

We're back to the 1920s.

[John Q. Citizen]

41. Bad idea. Slave labor is a bad idea.

[tonkatoy57]

42. .60 a day.

Sixty cents a day for labor will certainly make your operating costs look a lot better. Good times, good times are ahead for Big Ag in Colorado because profits will be soaring.

I wonder how much the state is charging these big farmers for the uses of the state's prisoners? Someone has to be making money on this or else there would be no reason to put this in place.

I hope my boss doesn't find out about this.

[soothsayer]

43. Indentured servitude is just around the corner. Pay off your bills!

They are ITCHING to open up debtor's prisons again. Those with debts and who do not own property will be screwed.

[BayCityProgressive]

44. Wow

no wonder why they want to keep the prison industrial complex going. We already have the highest rate of prisoners in all the world and now we will use them as slaves to drive down wages and make the rich richer! We have NO moral authority to condemn anything in China, Iran or anywhere else. WE ARE JUST AS BAD...OUR MEDIA JUST COVERS IT UP. This will go along nicely with the torture gulags in Gitmo and Eastern Europe and our new base AFRICOM to enslave the African people further.

[BayCityProgressive]

45. I wonder if the

Dem governor will support this? He already vetoed a pro-union law.

[Theres-a]

46. You got it.

Screwn.

[Trillo]

47. It says prisoners earn 60 cents per day

It doesn't say how much the prison earns.

I remember a few months ago someone posted here on DU a story about (I think it was California citrus fruits) that the grower couldn't get enough labor to pick the fruit, and it was left in huge piles on the ground to rot. Multiple piles. Lots of fruit. The farmer was interviewed, and there allegedly wasn't enough help to pick it before it fell.

I couldn't help but wonder where the heck they'd advertised? At the local fertilizer store's pin-up bulletin board? Maybe that was too small an area.

If they're having trouble finding workers, the state(s) or feds could provide free advertisements on TV and radio and Internet (this last may not be as good because of its decentralized nature) for farmers all over the country to announce picking season and locations. But private industry owns most all of the media, and advertising costs money, to support the jobs in media....

Going back to the California farmer who lost the citrus fruit, it was only in the news AFTER the fruit had dropped to the ground and was rotting. Why wasn't it in the news beforehand? I never heard they needed help picking fruit before it rotted. I read about a particular Republican that declared, paraphrased from memory, "Americans wouldn't pick fruit for $50 per hour". That was hotly contested here on DU.

The cycles of fruit season are undoubtedly exceedingly familiar to the farmer. I suspect to almost everyone else, even while they likely know there is such a season, have no clue as to precisely when it is in our modernized, synthetic world. How would they know? I guess they could look in it up.

Also, our system has taught citizens that they need a job to 'rent' or 'buy' a home. It doesn't make sense for people who have a place to live to live as transient farmworkers. What, are they supposed to keep paying their rent on a place while they are hundreds of miles away picking fruit?

I live in an agricultural area. I've never heard or read once in the media that farmers were looking for fruit pickers.

The classic way this is supposed to work is that price for labor auctions up until equilibrium is found versus the demand for labor curve. Free market yada yada.

Perhaps there are now too many middlemen who are acting as price ceilings to the money growers can make on their fruit, too many labor subsidies such as illegal aliens or prison workers acting to keep wages down, and farmers that have forgotten that nearly everyone is now living in an artificial society unattached to the natural rhythms and assume everyone knows when picking season arrives and where the jobs are located.

[shanti]

48. slave labor, fa sho

:eyes:

[EFerrari]

52. Exactly. And since prison is our preferred program for the poor,

the brown and the mentally ill, I guess we have ourselves a convoy. :mad: