China Warns Against Trade Sanctions

[Deja Q]

Source: CBS News (from AP)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/15/world/main2803354.shtml


(AP) Chinese officials warned American lawmakers on Tuesday against threatening sanctions over trade disputes ahead of talks this month and said there are no plans to speed up currency reforms despite U.S. pressure.

Threats of sanctions if Beijing fails to ease exchange rate controls more quickly could disrupt financial markets and slow those reforms, the officials said. They briefed reporters about the May 23-24 meeting in Washington on condition they not be identified by name.

"What we need to explain is that external voices will only backfire.... Such external voices will only disrupt the normal reform of China's exchange rate regime," said a senior Finance Ministry official.

"We are firmly against any threatening rhetoric or steps to politicize economic issues, because that will only harm the economic interests of both sides," the official said.





Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/15/world/main2803354.shtml

---

Article has much more.

The user comments are of particular interest.

They have no clue Americans wouldn't mind lower wages if the cost of living were to match; this is why India and China are booming middle classes, and America's is dying. (Well, duh...)

Also, the quality of Chinese goods - everybody I know of whines of how poorly made their items are. So why is anybody RELYING on them?

Some also claim we are leeching the labor of the peoples of the world. I have to say: Once again, are the people of these countries minding the fact? They're booming their economies. Doesn't sound like leeching to me.

So where am I wrong?

[Bonhomme Richard]

1. With all the money we now owe China........................

they can dictate anything they want. Ship us poison to eat....no big deal.
Thanks shrub.

[Deja Q]

8. Don't blame Shrub for starting it...

Nixon started it.

Reagan helped.

Bush I probably helped.

Clinton helped. (MFN status?!)

Bush II hasn't felt need to stop it.

On the plus side, keep in mind the Chinese fessed up to the accident.

And they're more inclined to kill their own anyway - look at their history of attempting population control. Meanwhile, we're told to breed more for some reason. I think Falwell had said something to the effect. Mitt Romney is claiming anyone who is single is just lazy and wants an easier life (so obviously he wants everybody to marry and breed, there is no other explanation available for his comment).

[Gregorian]

2. After decades, I'm finally hearing my own words echoing back.

Those comments are reaffirming what I always thought. It's not what I wanted. But the truth is inevitable.

It's no different than global warming or the war on terrorism. People either pay attention to the truth of these matters, or go down in a death spiral. Because death spiral is just what this article sounds like. We're both married to each other now. Except China has more power. First we gave them our manufacturing base. Then we gave our jobs away. Now we have nothing left with which to work. We are going to be forced into a less comfortable reality, when we could have chosen something better. Lack of vision. Lack of leadership.

[Deja Q]

11. We have a service-based economy...

Guess where the service jobs are going?

India.

Indo-Chinese relations are also improving.

The question is; since Nixon, has leadership been blind? Or far, far smarter than we give them credit for?

(It's gotta be blind; if the product quality was actually GOOD, then I would be worrying about the latter condition... but when $20,000 industrial document scanners break down on a bi-monthly basis and the things were made in China, you bet there's a problem with manufacturing. And the US cannot be blamed for that.)

The US MUST re-build it's manufacturing base. Bush would be heralded a savior if it was done; the reasons are obvious.

[Gregorian]

12. One thing a global economy has brought us is competition.

There is no way we can bring back manufacturing to the US without other changes. The one big change is wage decrease. We either take less pay, or the Chinese do it for us. I see no way around that. Tariffs, taxes, whatever. The bottom line is, we're up against the wall.

And Chinese quality is lightyears ahead of where it was 20 years ago.

Here is how I see what is going on in China. They ARE our manufacturing base. For example, I just bought a mountain bike. It's made by Ibis, a small group of guys in an office in Santa Cruz, California. It's like a mom and pop business in it's size. But this bike is manufactured in China. They're doing our production. Instead of a machine shop in Latrobe, it's in Beijing.

I'm not spouting rightwing or any other thing that I've heard. I'm only saying what I've seen.

And the bottom line is, our wages are coming down. It's a disaster. It's not something I wish on anyone. But we didn't do the right things. Bush aggravated it by pouring our hard earned money into war. A one way garbage hole.

Well, that's my blabbing for today. I'm totally willing to hear how wrong I am. After all my ideas are mostly personal observation. Not much more than Truthiness.

[dysfunctional press]

15. "a rising tide lifts all boats..."

that was the lie they used to sell globalization- what they neglected to mention about that analogy is that for the "tide" to rise in one place, it has to go down someplace else.

[Deja Q]

18. We're a Christian nation too.

Maybe we're supposed to be the literal interpretation of Christ; being nailed to the cross for someone else's sins.

:shrug:

I sure as heck don't know!

[Gregorian]

20. I'm rethinking my "pessimistic" economic attitude.

I think Hypnotoad hit it on the head. But you are also right. The tide being money. Our standard of living is high. But a gallon of gas in Bombay is a dollar. So we're still competitive.

And like I said below, if we create a new energy economy, this country will flourish. And that may not even include manufacturing here. Although we're now up against an ecologic economy as well. But that's another subject.

For a change, I think I see some hope. As an engineer I think we still have a lot of work that is capable of being done in order to achieve efficient living.

[Deja Q]

16. One thing is out of the equation:

Cost of living.

China and India can profit from the wages because cost of living is much lower. Last I recall reading online, gas is something like 70 cents per gallon in Beijing. It's $3.30 in MN.

For all the whine that Americans won't work below a certain wage, plenty forget the cost of living is NOT globalized, unlike product cost.

The same corporate people who say WE need to become competitive again forget THEY need to do the same.

It's got to be all or nothing, and right now it's slanted in their favor; a slant that is not indefinite - not by any means.

[Gregorian]

19. Ah. Thanks.

I was hoping to hear something that would prove me wrong.

Sometimes I like being wrong. And it just seemed to binary to think we are up against an immovable economic wall.

So then, let's get the new energy economy rolling! That will bring a vigorous new life to America.

[BeHereNow]

21. Ha-Ha-Ha America: Youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmANxHJ6s9M

And no, it was not made by a Chinese director.
It was made by someone who "Gets it"
where the NWO is concerned.

BHN

[hatrack]

3. You WILL buy our toxic, poorly made and indifferently designed low-end shit!

If you want us to keep buying your T-bills, that is . . . .

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

13. Yes, you will.

Your're undoubtedly typing on one of them right now.

[ohio2007]

4. If congress were to impose sanctions on the hypereconomy of China...

.....will the president veto it?

[Honeycombe8]

5. Or else? Or else what, does China mean?....

See what happens when our country lets a foreign country own too much of it? They own real estate, businesses, and lots and lots of DEBT by us! They have us by the cajones?

[Deja Q]

9. Cable money channels are spinning it as it's a good thing.

In short, an enemy with their own hand in the cookie jar isn't going to break the jar, knowing the proverbial glass might cut their artery too.

A perverse, if logical viewpoint. And given how many people China has pulled out of poverty (over 400 million claimed, and they have half a million millionaires...), all we can say with merit is "Why is the quality if the products so low?"

We need to start manufacturing HERE again. It'll even up the trade imbalance and give the Chinese new standards on which to exceed. Like the pubbies tell us, without competition things go stagnant and fail. Well, look around. It all comes from China and I know people of ALL political persuasions (D, R, I, G, you name it) and put them all together and the chrous would be in perfect harmony unison: Chinese product quality is undeserving of the prices being commanded for them.

[pokercat999]

22. No they don't. We can refuse to honor the debt and ban

all imports from China. They can't take land and buildings that they "own" with them when we throw their asses out. They need us or we would already be gone.

[lovuian]

6. They can poison us and think they are going to get away

with it...

Open trade is poison trade

[sadiesworld]

7. And the twits in DC will decide that this justifies an arms race...

yet do nothing about trade. Blatant corporate insanity.

[Deja Q]

10. Corporate insanity indeed.

They make the rules and, if what you say is what will happen, they can't even follow their own rules.

Sad.

But we all know, nobody's going to start a nuke war. Therefore something else will be done.

[Vilis Veritas]

14. Personally,

I think this is all non-sense. Our economies are so well tied to one another that this is just cake for the masses to quibble over.

Kill the US economy and China sinks like a lead turd. Just my US$10 worth...

[Deja Q]

17. You might want to read this:

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/SuperModels/TheSuperRichAreDoingYouAFavor.aspx

We're being done a favor by the super rich.

Read the stats on the number of Chinese millionaires.

The US gave them their millionaires, their 400 million people who are not out of poverty (a Chinese article said they got that many out but it still took us to buy the goods), so they have no right to threaten anybody as they are.

We are tied together, indeed.

Until someone else can take over for us.

Cost of living in the US won't be made to match the wages they want to dole out any time soon, I fear.

So the next time they say we have to be more competitive, THEY need to counter in EVERY factor. No more cherry picking.

Indeed, I know MANY Americans who would outdo these Indian parroting cue card reading helpdesk operators in an attosecond. Americans sure as hell are worth the money and cost of living. (Americans are friendlier when it comes to bill collecting as well and understand the concept of 'misunderstanding'. That or, at least from my experiences before I did everything online, I got the chaps who hadn't had their lunch break and were arrogant and annoyed as hell.)

[Vilis Veritas]

28. Thanks for the link...

The US as stated has somewhere between 2-8 million, millionaires. Still 4 to 16 times more than China. I am sure that China will catch up. My fear is that the author of that article went out and purchased blocks of the stock he mentioned the DAY AFTER publication...;-)

To your earlier point in the base thread about quality of Chinese goods, there is some clarification needed. Chinese manufacturing is the 2nd best in to world currently. While it is true that there are shoddy components still being manufactured in leftover plants from the boom of the 80's and 90's, the current slew of manufacturing plants in China are procuring the absolute best machines and technology available. To such an extent that European and US based manufacturers are having to wait for machines because the Chinese hold all the current contracts for new equipment from Germany.

The quality of Chinese goods is going up. Their quality of goods will ultimately be the best in the world. That is their plan. Hence, the Chinese governments reluctance to meddle with their economy at this time. Please note: Walmart owns over 4,000 manufacturing plants in China. They will never produce good quality products, however, China has way more than 4,000 manufacturing plants and does have desire to be the best. Recently, in digital cameras, Japan has started outsourcing manufacture to China, why? Because, China bought all the latest equipment and Japan had to outsource in order to handle demand and quality concerns. China currently owns 50% of the camera market share.

Remember the same thing happened 50 years ago after WWII. The japanese manufacturing sector was the genesis of the current chinese model and eventually exceeded the expectations of the implementors. Economies boomed globally and the US experienced an unprecendented era of consumerism. I think we are currently in the Capitalist Expansion Era - Phase 2.

Phase 3 will be...interesting to say the least...

[kineneb]

23. the US, a wholly owned subsidiary of China-India Inc.

and the US threatens to do what??

Nah, they can't be that stupid...wait, BushCo is "in charge"...yes, they can be that stupid (bangs forehead with hand).

The problem comes when there are few employed "consumers" left in the US who can afford to purchase the imported goods. The manufacturing drain only works as long as there is some kind of middle class here, who can afford to purchase products produced by China, Inc. Selling lots of cheap crap to the poor at MallWart will only go so far (note that their sales are down). As we loose good paying jobs, the corporations are losing a market for their junk. Poor folks don't buy new stuff, just ask me!

[Screwfly]

24. The greatest triumph of American businessmen

is convincing the world they're a bunch of idiots. I've been hearing doom and gloom prediction about foreigners buying out American and taking it over my whole life; first it was the Germans, then the Japanese, and then the Arabs.

The United States is just one big clip joint; they lure in foreign investors, taken 'em to the clearers, and then buy back the place they bought for peanuts. Witness Daimler selling Chrysler to an American investment company at a huge loss. I don't know how the Yankee businessmen are going to skin China, but they’ll get taken one way or another.

[pampango]

27. You are so right.

Back in the 1980's the Japanese were buying all kinds of buildings and companies in the US. There was much hand wringing over the control the Japanese would eventually have over our economy. Their purchases were eventually sold back to Americans at a large loss to the Japanese.

I remember at the time British Petroleum (now just BP) was buying SOHIO. There was much consternation about the Japanese buying a Hollywood studio and a couple of New York skyscrapers than there was about the British buying an oil company.

Got to watch out for those Asians (then the Japanese, now the Chinese and Indians), but don't worry about the Europeans.
;)

[Odin2005]

25. Fuck you, China.

:grr:

[NorthernSpy]

29. I for one hail our new overlords!

:sarcasm:

[David__77]

26. The US had no moral right to do that.

So many politicians want "free trade," but only when the benefits accrue to the US. Shouldn't progressives care about equitable distribution of wealth and technology globally so that we can move past a world of developed and many more underdeveloped countries? China should not let its currency float. Before 1971, the US didn't do so either. Currency speculation sank several Asian "tigers" in the late 1990's, while China was basically unscathed.