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SunDrop23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 09:33 AM
Original message
Bush getting firsthand look at bridge
Source: AP

ABOARD AIR FORCE ONE - President Bush braced for a firsthand view Saturday of the devastation at the site of the highway bridge collapse in Minneapolis. "Clearly, this was not something that we expected to happen," his transportation chief said.

Still criticized for his administration's sluggish response to Hurricane Katrina, Bush hurried to Minnesota soon after the I-35W bridge buckled on Wednesday.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070804/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush



Say what? The bridge collapsed WEDNESDAY, he didn't make a statement until THURSDAY and he shows up SATURDAY and that is characterised as HURRIED to Minnesota?

That liberal media is at it again.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. I think you meant to say "liebrul"
Edited on Sat Aug-04-07 09:59 AM by GreenPartyVoter
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zabet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. "Moonbat media" n/t
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
3. Are there protestors with big signs that say LIAR?
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noel adamson Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. or "Your Tax Dollars Not At Work"
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
4. "allowing him to gaze down upon the muddy waters where some people still are tapped" [sic]




Bush flies over collapsed bridge

By DEB RIECHMANN, Associated Press Writer 7 minutes ago

MINNEAPOLIS - Flying over Minneapolis' collapsed highway bridge, President Bush got a bird's-eye view Saturday of the concrete slabs and twisted steel that once spanned the Mississippi River.

The president's Marine One helicopter circled the site several times during a 10-minute tour, allowing him to gaze down upon the muddy waters where some people still are tapped. He saw pieces of the highway still littered with vehicles, including a school bus hugging a guard rail. Rescue boats below helped in the search for victims.

A cloudy sky and slight drizzle greeted Bush upon his arrival. He planned to take a walking tour, receive briefings on recovery efforts and meet with families and some of the victims.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 10:00 AM
Original message
Can't the AP afford a story editor, to verify obvious typos?
They aren't an internet blog or discussion site, they have a reputation to make and uphold.

Thanks for the article.
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clixtox Donating Member (941 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-05-07 05:11 AM
Response to Original message
31. Why Bother?

The once proud "wire service" news provider, The Associated Press, has long since squandered their original good reputation of a generation ago. That was replaced with a new state propaganda "mouthpiece" paradigm, with the subsequent radical diminution of both AP's integrity and reputation. Much better, and cheaper, to just churn out slanted, biased screeds while obscuring or ignoring all of the many "inconvenient truths".
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Saw a clip of him looking down at the wreckage, grinning like a hound dog
eating horse shit.
:mad:
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SunDrop23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
28. I can almost hear him saying....
"Hey you and you and you (pointing around frantically, then motioning people toward him), I hate you blue state fuckers, but pose for this picture just the same..."
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
5. Photo-op time
That is the only fucking reason that bastard is there.
He does not give a shit about those people, Minnesotans or any of the rest of us.
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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
6. Ducks behind podium to hide erection.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
7. Damned either way.
Edited on Sat Aug-04-07 09:57 AM by HypnoToad
Saturday was a preferable choice; given a weekday trip would invariably bring about huge traffic problems. Problems we don't need any more of right now.

Sorry, but I can't bash the president for this choice. It's not all that stupid of a choice, to have waited until today.

But, yeah, "hurried" seems less than apropos a term to have used... "reasoned" may have been a better one.

Nobody expected it to happen - the 1990 document found by the press so amazingly quickly about the bridge's need for replacement could suggest otherwise. Plus subsequent reports on its condition. Every governor and the DoT whose positions he fills from 1990 onward, and more as time has gone by given factors such as increase in traffic quantity and weight, has some responsibility in this. And any one of them could have put front a reasonable proposition and stopped this problem before it happened. Even half-mindless dingalings like that morning show shock DJ would admit government would be using money wisely and responsibly. Even after the accident he's retained his usual (non-) mindset. At times he makes good points, but on this one he's as much a parrot as any given employee in Apple's Bangalore Call Center.

It's damn tragic it takes the loss of so many lives and infrastructure like this. But maybe we'll have learned something in all this.

And if the system was privatized? Well, if I can't trust help desk support staff in another country or a computer made in China (Dell truly sucks), why should I expect core infrastructure to be any better? These are examples of how businesses are run, and core infrastructure (IMHO) is rather more important.

And that transcends all political orientations.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. "Nobody expected it to happen".... I posted this earlier, but alas,
the important points seem to have gone unnoticed.
I didn't write this, the South Dakota Department of Transportation did. It is something to think about, perhaps something that should be addressed sooner than later now that there may be evidence that gives this concern some credence.

http://www.state.sd.us/Applications/HR19ResearchProject...

Bridges in South Dakota are designed at an inventory stress level and permitted overloads are allowed up to an operating stress level. The Department uses the load factor design method and the operating stress level allowed is five thirds of the inventory stress level. Some of these non-standard vehicles are possibly exceeding the operating stress level on some bridges but are not considered to be overloaded according to the bridge weight formula. This may be detrimental to the life of some bridges. There are approximately 1200 bridges on the State trunk highway system. The four common bridge construction types include: reinforced concrete slab, steel girder, prestressed concrete girder and trusses.

It is known that non-standard vehicles exist but it is not known to what extent. To further complicate this, vehicles having more than thirteen axles are not counted by weigh-in-motion systems and traffic counters since these systems only accommodate upto thirteen axle vehicles.

A study is needed to determine the truck configuration limits (i.e. -- restriction on gross weight, restriction on number of total axles or number of axles in a group, weight of axle groups, or a modification to the bridge weight formula) that should be set so that the life of bridges in South Dakota are not prematurely shortened. To limit the gross weight of trucks or the number of axles that can be used would require legislation. Strong evidence is needed to support any legislation recommended.



Taiwan:
http://trb.metapress.com/content/a477666106407493 /
After data collection and analysis it was found that the average truck load factor for combined heavy vehicles computed from the WIM data collection was 2.7 times higher than the original design value, which already took into account 30 percent truck overloading. It was also found that computed axle load ratios for various types of heavy vehicles were dramatically different from the ratios given in the bridge design standard specification. Bridge deck designs for a simply supported bridge were studied. It was concluded that the current bridge design standard specification will result in a 28 percent underestimation of steel volume in bridge deck design.

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policy/otps/truck/wusr/chap05.h...
Types of Loads

Trucks affect bridges in several ways. When moving across a bridge, they produce static live loads and dynamic live loads. These loads result in the bridge experiencing bending, shear and fatigue stresses. The weight of the vehicle causes the live load stresses; its movement across the bridge, in conjunction with its weight, causes the dynamic stresses; and the movement, weight and the number of repetitions cause the fatigue stresses. When designing bridges, engineers typically increase the static load by a fixed percentage (about 10 to 30 percent) to account for the dynamic load.

Additionally, the bridge must withstand dead loads (the weight of the bridge itself, including the weight of future overlays), wind, thermal, earthquake, and other loads. The AASHTO bridge design manuals provide procedures to account for all these stresses.
Critical Stresses for Analysis

This analysis concentrates on bending moment stresses for several reasons. Generally a bridge designed to accommodate the bending moment stresses caused by the live, dead and dynamic loads, will also accommodate the fatigue and shear stresses. Thermal, wind and seismic stresses are not a function of vehicle weights and dimensions. If the bending stress is excessive, the other stresses usually are excessive as well. This is one reason that bridge replacement often is the best solution for an overstressed bridge. Another important reason is that highway agencies often must improve safety features, alignment, lighting, utilities, and other level of service characteristics if they strengthen a bridge. When costs of these other improvements is added to the cost of strengthening, total bridge replacement often is found to be more cost effective. Strengthening is possible for only some bridge types. Steel girder, some truss and even some prestressed concrete beam bridges can be economically strengthened if they meet all other stress and level of service criteria, but reinforced concrete slab and several other bridge types cannot be easily strengthened.

Bridge analysis for nationwide policy studies must rely on readily available nationwide data. The FHWA's National Bridge Inventory (NBI) is the only such dataset that meets this objective. Unfortunately, the NBI does not contain any detailed data describing the bridge geometry, location of details and the like which effectively rules out the analysis of fatigue, shear or other stresses that require this level of detailed data on the individual bridge design elements. However, the NBI does contain sufficient data describing the bridge length, support type, design type, material, etc., that permits the accurate estimation and computation of the live load and total bending moments. This is an additional reason why previous studies of national TS&W policy issues have either ignored fatigue and other less critical stresses or have handled them in a very simplified manner. But, as noted above, little is gained by considering fatigue or other stresses, since the bending stress is a reasonable proxy for all stresses.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. Did Hummers crash the bridge?
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
8. No one said it would collapse just that it was defective
If we had been told the time and date it would collapse then we could have done something. No one could have predicted a bridge that was defective would collaspe.... sounds like this administrations excuse for 9-11 and katrina.
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. What exactly are "defective" bridges expected to do?
Fly off?
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #8
18. ...and of course
any warning was just "historical" information.

It's best not to look into who's fault it is but make sure we learn lessons for the future, see it as an "opportunity".

;)
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ArbustoBuster Donating Member (956 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
10. "This was not something that we expected to happen"
Every damned time something bad happens during this Administration, the lying SOBs trot out the "No one could have seen this coming" bull. Someone in the press needs to take them out behind the woodshed every time they say this kind of crap.
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LuckyLib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. Yes. I keep waiting for someone in the press corps to shout in response, "No shit!"
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
11. In a perfect world the good folk of Minneapolis would have been waiting for
Caligula with pitchforks, torches, big hunks of the broken concrete, and perhaps even a guillotine.

But they're too afraid of being "disappeared" to Gitmo or parts unknown, I suspect.
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LuckyLib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
23. Regular folks were not allowed anywhere near Chimpy. It's impossible to get near the wreckage,
Edited on Sat Aug-04-07 03:55 PM by CLW
and we all know that Little Boots' audiences are hand selected. Only our Democratic mayor and Senator could not be excluded.

But take a look at this, posted by another DUer!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1511502
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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
12. Bush giving firsthand look at himself flying over bridge...
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LiberalEsto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
16. Gee, I sure hope
he doesn't accidentally trip over something and fall in!
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Hulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
17. Better he kept his "photo-opt ass" out of town so they could get something done...
Remember, he shows up for photo opts only. He has no brains, no real power, and offers "our prayers" as assistance....so he would just be a nuisance in the way when he finally shows. I'm from Minnesota, and I'd just as soon the dufus moron stayed out of town completely. He's of no use anyway.

P.S. Hope they booooed his ass!
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virgdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
19. Same Sh*t, different year...
just another 10 minute photo-op orchestrated to give the impression that Bu*h really gives a damn. Anyone with half a brain really knows the truth - he doesn't give a rats ass about anyone but himself.
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classysassy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
20. Send
help,keep dim son away.
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Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
21. as is the case for many disasters, it's more like "COULD this happen?"
While it's rare to come out with a spot-on prediction for which area is going to be hit by a hurricane (or a terrorist attack, for that matter) -- we have a general idea that these kinds of things can be dangerous, and often there are specific warnings (hurricane path tracked by weather satellites, or presidential daily security briefings) which can help with responses as long as someone is paying attention (hint, hint). But I think it's rather disingenuous to say "not something that we expected to happen", when there are building codes and inspection/repair schedules for structures like that, because everybody knows that there MIGHT be a problem someday.

Disasters are seldom totally unforseen.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
24. I like "braced." Bull cookies. He loves death.
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KalicoKitty Donating Member (777 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Bush thrives on deaths!
Always has...even as a youngster blowing up frogs while his old lady stood nearby and smirked.
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Olney Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
27. The War President in a tender moment.
:eyes:
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
29. Oh God, I miss Wellstone
I just don't see him standing next to Bush in the photo ops and pretending he's glad to see him here.
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-05-07 04:58 AM
Response to Original message
30. he also promised quick action to fix the bridge
:eyes:
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