Islamists damage giant rock Buddha

[rodeodance]

Source: telegraph



Islamists damage giant rock Buddha

By Ben Quinn
Last Updated: 2:11am BST 11/10/2007

Islamist radicals in Pakistan have attempted to destroy an ancient carving of Buddha by drilling holes in the rock and filling them with dynamite.


The 23ft high image was damaged during the attack, which brought back memories of the Taliban's destruction six years ago of the giant Buddhas at Bamiyan, in neighbouring Afghanistan.

The Buddha, in the Swat district of north-west Pakistan, is thought to date from the seventh century AD and was considered the largest in Asia, after the two Bamiyan Buddhas.

..........

Pakistani troops have stepped up recent operations against militants in the fertile Swat valley, where thousands of locals are in thrall to Mullah Fazlullah, a rabble-rousing cleric who has called for suicide attacks and holy war. Fazlullah's men have continued to wage an offensive against what they deem 'un-Islamic' activity, last week blowing up dozens of music, video and cosmetics stalls at a market.............

Read more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/10/11/wpak111.xml

[ncabot22]

1. That's just sick

You have to wonder why people just can't respect each other's religion. My heart broke when the giant Buddhas were destroyed in Afghanistan. Now, this.

[alphafemale]

27. And the image of those two Buddhas crashing down was almost a foreboding

When it's viewed in context of the twins destroyed that September.

[The Stranger]

59. Very foreboding. Do you have the Bible reference for it?

[alphafemale]

89. What the hell would the Bible have to do with the Twin Towers?

And why the hell do you think I would have a reference?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

100. What the hell do the Bamyan Buddhas have to do with the Twin Towers?

[The Stranger]

106. Yes, exactly.

[alphafemale]

108. Destruction by fanatics who are driven to kill and die than live and let live.

For one.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

109. What does killing and dying have to do with the Bamyan Buddhas?

[alphafemale]

110. Eradication and destruction then. Total hatred for another culture.

Fanataicism.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

111. "Total hatred for another culture. "

Hmm. So it's got nothing to do with them both being perpetuated by muslims?

[alphafemale]

114. They were Muslims in as much as Fred Phelps is a Christian.

Hatred is some people's religion no matter what other name they give it.

[Dave From Canada]

153. Except that there's a million more of them compared to people like Phelps

[tabasco]

48. The destruction of those statues made me hate the taliban.

All I knew about them before that was that they were fundamentalists and fought the Russians.

When they destroyed those statues, I knew they were crazy and we had a problem in Afghanistan.

Nothing angers me more than the fact that Bush did not commit sufficient forces to Afghanistan. Bush's first loyalty is to his corporate masters, who wanted control of the Iraqi oil.

[Quantess]

2. Just don't draw a picture of Mohammed.

Blowing up Buddhas with dynamite, that's cool. Just, whatever you do, no cartoons of Mohammed.

(Just in case, I better add the sarcasm):sarcasm:

[XemaSab]

5. Here's the passages:

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth....

My Lord, make this a peaceful land, and protect me and my children from worshiping idols.

[slackmaster]

20. I've always found it odd how many Christian sects violate that one wholesale

Very strange.

[Quantess]

49. But blowing up a religious icon with dynamite is great,

just as long as it's of some other religion..? To me, the actions of the followers don't seem to match the spirit of their holy book. I would hope that Mohammed didn't want his disciples to be intolerant hypocrites.

BTW, thank you for the quote, which I assume is from the Quran.:)

[SyntaxError]

51. I believe it's from the Christian bible, not the Quran.

[Quantess]

58. Thank you.

As you can plainly see, I'm not religious at all! :blush:

(Years ago, someone said "what if Mary and Joseph got an abortion?" I replied "Who's Marion Joseph?")

[SyntaxError]

65. I'm not religous either...

I've tried reading the bible and quran just because everyone always discusses, and I thought it would be awesome to be able to throw out quotes from both.... ehnn, but that never worked out too well.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

64. That's the Torah.

The second commandment. Also a Holy Book in Christianity and Islam.

[SyntaxError]

66. Ahh, well there we go...

[superconnected]

84. The buddhists don't worship buddha, they follow his teachings.

He's the first buddha(there are many) to obtain enlightenment so they follow his practices of meditation to become one with the infinite all.

There's no place in their religion to "worship" buddha. They respect him but he is not "god" or the "infinite all" to them.

[XemaSab]

86. It's still a graven image

:P

[colorado_ufo]

115. No more than a portrait of Washington or Lincoln on a school wall.

Buddha was not a god of any sort, but a spiritually elevated and enlightened human being who taught compassion and common sense, along with some more sophisticated spiritual beliefs.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Trajan]

11. I am not free to 'insult' Islam ?

Really ? ......

Well ..... Then I am apparently NOT free at all .....

Why live ?

You accept these restrictions ?

[Beerboy]

13. Everyone is free to do what they will in complete Liberty,

but there may be unpleasant consequences exercised, and rightfully so, against people who traffic in Hate Speech.
Yes, I accept these so-called "restrictions" without reservation.

[Trajan]

15. Destroying someone elses artistic renditions ....

is NOT somehow insulting ?

Dude .... Grab another beer .....

Im afraid you need it .....

I am Atheist .... and I would rather DIE free than bow to such ignorance ..... you want to claim that is 'hate speech' to reject this iconoclasm ? ... nonsense .....

Defense of the Taliban, or their iconoclastic ilk, is completely foreign to the Liberal mind ... Or so one would think ....

I say again: FUCK them ......

[Beerboy]

17. OK, I took your advice. I can't drink, but I did smoke.

By what I believe in now, society could gather @ my execution, then have a picnic afterwards. The non-negotiable thing is that kuffars/dhimmis (non-Muslims) shall not be allowed is to make blasphemous and heretical cartoons about Mohammad intended to make Muslims apostate from Islam.
It's spelled out quite clearly that bad things might come to pass.
Geeze, lighten up, not everything Muslim is automatically "Taliban".

[SyntaxError]

54. People who defend the blowing up of ancient statues are not much better than the Taliban.

Not sure if you are or not, but just in case.

[Quantess]

63. For me being a "kuffar / dhimmi", how is it non-negotiable, if I don't believe a word of it?

I agree to not insult someone else's religion, and you should be satisfied with that. That is all that you can reasonably expect a "kuffar/dhimmi" to do. That courtesy shown toward Islam should be no more, and no less, than the courtesy shown toward any other religion.

[Quantess]

53. What is it with religious fundies

of any religion, who show intolerance and contempt toward others who do not share their precise religious beliefs, who meanwhile, whine about being persecuted?

Trajan, I'm also non-religious. Being atheist, agnostic, non-religious, or at the very least, not being a Fundamentalist, is an asset and is a psychologically healthy way to live.

Edited for grammar.

[SyntaxError]

55. agreed!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

56. Actually, no that you mention it...

insulting islam is not that far removed from blowing up Buddha statues.

[puffymuffins]

88. I disagree.

No one has a right to "not be insulted" That's 360 deg. different than a wanton act of destruction.

I have seen nearly every religion and non-religion insulted and criticized here in threads that have dealt specifically and hone in on one religion. And that's fine by me. What bothers me is that I get the feeling that Islam has to be treated with kid gloves. Why?

Additionally, who but a fundie islamist would ojbect to criticism of fundamentalist islam? But, maybe I'm misinterpreting the situation.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

98. "That's 360 deg. different than a wanton act of destruction. "

You do realize that three hundred sixty degrees makes a complete circle, right?

The sentiment is the same, the difference is these guys went out and committed an act of vandalism.

"Additionally, who but a fundie islamist would ojbect to criticism of fundamentalist islam?"

Well, I'm an atheist. And I object to Islamophobic bigotry.

[ohio2007]

46. Freedom isn't free

Its' being fought for on distant beaches ;
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,2187211,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=12

While others are at liberty to spread what they believe is true freedom;
http://www.treasury.gov/press/releases/hp598.htm

of course, most assume they will never have freedom taken from them since it's all they have known and will never creep up on them
;)

http://www.expatica.com/actual/article.asp?subchannel_id=1&story_id=44755

[The Stranger]

60. Actually, freedom is free. Know your Enlightenment Thinkers.

Your government cannot give you liberty -- only take it away.

[ohio2007]

74. So, how do you get it back once it's gone?

oh.
you don't.
/sarc
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0f7_1191940696

[The Stranger]

107. You revolt.

[rpannier]

12. And he is correct

It's irrelevant that Islamists find it impermissable to portray Mohammad. DU is NOT an Islamic state (Thank God).

The Islamists who did that have no respect for anyone else's faith/beliefs or lack thereof.

As to Muslims have earned the right to say that if infidels insult Islam...WTF is that!!!
They have EARNED NOTHING!!!

Your offense to his post is offensive and rather unprogressive/unliberal.

From reading your 'offended' reply one could easily think you are condoning the MURDER of people for having the audacity to mock and criticize Islam.

[Beerboy]

14. So it's cool w/you that Bush orders Qu'rans flushed?

No one even knows what a so-called "islamist" is anyways, but one thing is for certain, Muslims in the erstwhile 'United States' have the right to agitate and demonstrate and use all means at our disposal, within the law, to achieve a more perfect Union.
It's completely offensive and morally wrong to suggest that Muslims should be held out for persecution. I hope you're not suggesting that.

[leftynyc]

23. And a statue of something insults them how?

As for the US, check out the first ammendment - we're free here to say what we want about any religion (for the moment) and if Muslims don't like it, tough.

[cali]

25. Of course no one on this thread is suggesting that. But i have a suggestion

for you: Build a better strawman. and oh yeah, attempting to blow up a giant buddha, is fucked up. Got a problem with that last statement?

[slackmaster]

18. Islam is as deserving of mockery as any other major organized religion

I got in trouble at work for putting up a poster depicting the Pope and two members of the Beatles:

"John-Paul, George, and Ringo LIVE at Clemson Memorial Stadium!"

Coworker got offended, boss made me take it down. But the person who complained was allowed to keep her signed papal blessings on display.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[B3Nut]

33. Right the fuck on!

Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke. Is this guy going to advocate killing "infidels" next? Never mind the fact that any real all-powerful God wouldn't need humans to do his killing for him, only imaginary deities invented by primitive man need humans to kill other humans. And if they don't like anyone drawing cartoons of their "prophet" (peanut butter and jelly be upon him) then they can stuff it. Their actions prove that their god is imaginary.

Humans have the right to believe or not believe whatever they like, and criticize any idea that they find ridiculous. Period. If fundamentalists don't like that, tough shit. Sacred cows make the best hamburgers, lemme tell ya...

Though I have to say...I have a hard time believing that an observant Muslim would have beer as an avatar...I'm tempted to call a Poe on this one.

Todd :beer:

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cobalt Violet]

40. As an artist the temptation to do so is growing.

Draw cartoons that is, not blow up art.

[SyntaxError]

52. A real artist would draw a cartoon and then blow it up... :P

It's like deep and meaningful, and stuff.

[Cobalt Violet]

67. Are you saying I'm not an artist?

Prove it.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Beerboy]

16. Would you care to clarify that?

Do you think Islam is bad, are you afraid of it, or do you just not know? I think you're trying to smear people that believe in something with people who will believe in anything.

[slackmaster]

19. Hey, observant Muslims can't drink beer

What's your reason for choosing that particular religion to die on the hill for, Beerboy?

[Vidar]

47. Nothing against Islam. Nothing against nonodrinkers. I'm a friend of Bill W.

Not really sure where you're coming from.

[Ohio Joe]

82. In my own opinion, yes...

I do think Islam is bad. I also think every other religion is bad. As odd as it may sound, I don't mean that as an insult to any religion, I have simply never seen any good that comes from any religion. I do believe that everyone should be allowed to worship or not as they see fit... as long as that worship does not infringe on others. I personally feel that believing in an invisible, all powerful being makes no sense. If someone else wants to believe, good for them, makes me no never mind... as long as they don't take that belief and try to force it on others by cutting off their head and posting video of it on the internet, or killing a doctor that performs abortions, or passing laws that make it against the law for two people to get married or any of the myriad of ways belief can be forced on another person. When the idols of one religion are destroyed by the followers of another religion, I see that as bad and I don't think any good comes from such wanton destruction.

[Wilber_Stool]

4. Fuck religion,

it's art, for Christ sake.

[psychopomp]

6. Fuck "art"

I am sure the creators of this work did not have "art" in mind when they rendered the Buddha in stone.

[Trajan]

10. Isnt the word 'Art' ....

A root word for "Artificial" ? ..... Something unnatural ? .... Wrought by hands ?

So even if it wasnt considered 'art' by those who formed it, doesnt the mere fact that someone HAD formed it make it 'art' ? .....

One might ask why an adherent to a deity would ever require to render that deity in stone ....

Apparently the deity, nor the spirit represented by that deity, isn't quite enough to satisfy a human being .....

What does the human do to find satisfaction ? ..... He creates art ....

One might even cynically conclude that the iconoclasts have made the destruction of artistic works an 'art' unto itself .....

One of the truly awful acts of the Taliban (among many) was, in my own narrow-minded view, the intentional destruction of the Bamiyan statues .....


It is nothing but ego that drives the iconoclasts to destroy the work of others .....

Fuck them .......

[psychopomp]

37. What is "artificial" is the grafting of a modern concept such as "art" on religious works meant to

inspire reverence and perhaps awe. Aesthetics is nothing new; to consider all that which is created by human hands "art" is to render the concept useless.

[Trajan]

41. That is poo

nonsense ....

[JI7]

151. Buddhist art was mean tto inspire

[cali]

31. And you would likely be wrong.

That's like saying the creators of the Elgin marbles didn't have art in mind, or Leonardo, or millions of others who created religious art.

[Cobalt Violet]

42. Like it or not it is Art.

Where did you study art?

[jzodda]

85. Your 100% wrong

Art and Religion are many times the same thing. People can express themselves religiously through art and it has been done for ages. So much of ancient art is intertwined with religion and its a shame to destroy that which was created many centuries ago. Are you condoning this act?

[jzodda]

135. Why don't you go and blow up a statue psycho

[bhikkhu]

7. Tathagata is how he referred to himself

Which roughly translated to "the one who stands before you". Not even "I", as the teaching was that the "I" was an illusion.

What would he think of statues of himself being blown up with dynamite? Perhaps: meaningless violence provoked by misunderstanding, against meaningless statues also built by misunderstanding.

[kineneb]

73. There or not there,

the statue is still here, the Buddha is still here.

[Beerboy]

8. So?

Americans have murdered hundreds of thousands of Bhuddists and Muslims concurrently, so this is pretty much another botched *Bushco op.

[slackmaster]

21. Destroying other peoples' property without their permission isn't OK

That's the bottom line here.

If you want to blow up your own shit, I have no problem with it as long as you don't endanger anyone else or damage other peoples' property.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

28. maybe because you cant think back far enough.

as far as i know christianity has had a long long history of violence.

[puffymuffins]

30. Yes it does have a long history

As do most religions. But that is history. I'm talking about today.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

32. so give them 500 years of so and all will be fine and forgotten.

:eyes:

not to mention that christians still kill large parts of the world at will but dont like to say we do in for religion.

i wonder if we would have bombed iraq, if they were all good christians.

[puffymuffins]

34. That's a wonderful idea!

That's a good, logical justification for them to keep on killing and destroying, because others have done it in the past, and they have some catching-up to do. :eyes:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

35. thats not my point, my point is christians still kill in larger numbers

and oppress the worlds poor, we just dont like to call it that.

also calling the prophet a pedophile is just sick.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

39. so when christians majorities lead by a christian president, supported by a chirstian populace

decide to bomb as islamic nation christianity has nothing to do with it?

[puffymuffins]

44. You are correct. It has nothing to do with it.

Religion is an irrelevant characteristic. bush, evil as he may be, did not bomb Islamic nations in the name of Christianity, nor is he a cleric, nor was he advised to do so by Christian clerics, nor does he profess, advocate and encourage killing in the name of Christianity.

On the other hand, when nutjobs ram planes into buildings, they are not shouting FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER AKBAR!!!! No, they are shouting allah akbar. Killing in the name of their religion as trained by their clerics and as interpreted by their stupid holy book.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

78. religion is HIGHLY relevant, it is because we are so PREJUDICED against Islam

that bush did a good job confusing americans, with iraqi's and al qaeda.

cos ofcourse all those damn muslims are just the same.

[Cobalt Violet]

50. What christian nation are you talking about?

[Quantess]

69. Touche'

We are not a "Christian Nation". (At least, not officially.)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

70. We're a nation with a nutjob fundamentalist Christian commander in chief.

that's currently slaughtering 1.2 million arab muslims with said commander in chief used as ethnic and religious scapegoats for the 9-11 attack.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

79. this one.

[Cobalt Violet]

139. We aren't a christian nation.

[spoony]

61. Yep.

[INDIA]

90. Yes yes!!! Christians vote for Boooooosh! They aren EVILS!11!! n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

93. If they support Bush, they're evil.

Just like muslims that might support bin Laden.

Pretty simple concept.

[INDIA]

96. But not all Christians vote for Bush...

Just like all Muslims are not terrorists. Yet DU will continue to bash Christians, and Freepers will continue to advocate the nuking of Mecca. Christians will be given a free pass on FR, and DU will give a free pass to Islamic terrorism.

It's stupid on both sides.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

97. And not all muslims blow up statues.

So that's why we take objection to blaming this sort of thing on Islam.

"DU will give a free pass to Islamic terrorism."

Pardon me?

[INDIA]

102. You obviously spend more time here than I do. You know what I'm talking about.

You know that there is a "sacred cow" hypocritical mentality here toward dealing with Islam and Islamic fundamentalist violence. Just the other day a thread was in LBN about a Christian book store owner being killed in either the West Bank or Gaza (I forget which.)

The first couple posts were jokes about killing him because he was preaching on a street corner. The thread died pretty quickly. Nobody cared enough to post, much less denounce the killers and their perverted form of Islam.

Now imagine Christian fundamentalists kidnapping a muslim leader in Europe. The thread would probably be flamed to high hell and make 100 posts. What does this go back to? Christians vote Bush, so Christians bad. Muslims are enemies of Bush, so they get free pass. Simple minded, stupid hypocrisy. And its demonstrated here quite often.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

104. I spend more time here.

And I think you're just making it up.

"You know that there is a "sacred cow" hypocritical mentality here toward dealing with Islam and Islamic fundamentalist violence."

Bullshit.

Feel free to link something if you've got a point.

[INDIA]

129. Bullshit? LOL! You can't be serious!

You don't see a disparity between the anger shown toward Christian and Muslim fanatics? Your head is in the sand.

Unfortunately I don't have a search function, but feel free to peruse MY posts since I recall posting and calling out several times the very same hypocricy you seem to be ignorant of.

I'm laughing at you.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

130. uh huh.

Another unsupported claim disparaging DU.

Say, weren't you the same guy going on about how everybody on DU loves Ahmadinejad, but were unable to support it?

[INDIA]

131. No. You're wrong. As usual. n/t

[leftynyc]

149. You're being willfully blind

if you don't see the disparity between the denigration of Islam vs Christianity on this site. Islam is considered somewhat of a sacred cow and when Muslims screw up, it's always someone else's fault - ususally the US or Israel. It's so patronizing really. Muslims are treated like children who cannot think or act for themselves. And excuses up the wazoo when they screw up.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

94. this argument is now out of context since the mods deleted the offensive posts

i never called christians evil nor do i think muslims are evil.

[INDIA]

99. Neither do I.

I'm not religious at all, and I'm not a particular fan of either Christianity or Islam.

But in terms of lousy mainstream religions, Islam has to be #1. (And I base my very unscientific ranking on oppression of women, homosexuals, fundamentalist violence, etc.) If you compared middle ages Christianity to modern Islam, I think Middle Ages Christianity would be worse, but Christianity has modernized, Islam has failed to evolve.

And unfortunately, a small but influential Muslim minority doesn't want to evolve. They are quite happy living back in the days of Mohamed.

And please spare me the "but Christians oppress too" argument. Gays in America can't marry. Gays in Iran are executed, or don't exist at all according to Achmendinnerdouche.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

101. Hmm.

"If you compared middle ages Christianity to modern Islam, I think Middle Ages Christianity would be worse, but Christianity has modernized, Islam has failed to evolve."

Seems to me that modern Christians are killing a lot more people right now than modern Muslims. Why would you be overlooking that?

[INDIA]

103. Really? Jerry Falwell has terrorist armies in the ME

killing and converting Muslims? Coulda fooled me. We're there for Oil, not for any religious purpose. Unlike terrorists, who use their religious ideology as a their main reason for violence.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

105. No, George Bush, the fundamentalist christian does.

"We're there for Oil, not for any religious purpose. "

The very few people who stand to make a profit off of oil are, the rest are their to blow up muslims.

[INDIA]

147. You're unable to understand the difference between...

secular military invasions and religious fundamentalist violence. The United States is not in Iraq for Jeebus. OBL and religious fanatic buddies are doing what they're doing for their fake Allah, and some putz named Muhammad. You don't see the difference? Actually, I'm sure you do, you are just choosing to ignore it so you can argue more.

The OP, and main subject of this thread is about religious fanaticism and the damage/violence/havoc it breeds. Your posts belong on another thread about nationalism and imperialism, which we (the US) are guilty of, not Christian fundies. Fundies vote for * and are against gay marriage. That's bad. Islamic fundies are oppressing people and carrying out violent acts all over the world. That's worse. But you think they're comparable. They're not.

"But...but....Cwistians are bad peeple two!!! :cry: "

[La Lioness Priyanka]

112. gays in india are imprisoned. so is hinduism the second worst religion?

or do you think maybe this has to do with poverty, illiteracy and concentration of wealth.

[spoony]

62. Why is it that even in a thread

about Islam, Christianity gets shat on? What the fuck is that? Equal time hatred?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

68. "Equal time hatred?"

You'd prefer anti-muslim hatred only?

I think the point is to show the hypocrisy in religious bigotry.

[spoony]

71. You're not even very talented at twisting words around

Though I imagine you fancy yourself as much. In fact I imagine you fancy yourself quite a bit. But the true hypocrisy lies in the exhaustingly relativistic, feigned outrage people drum up when reaching hundreds and thousands of years into the past to make sure everyone knows they think Christianity is "bad too" and in that way shield themselves from looking like they're criticising Islam unfairly, which of course they usually are anyway.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

72. ...

"But the true hypocrisy lies in the exhaustingly relativistic, feigned outrage people drum up when reaching hundreds and thousands of years into the past to make sure everyone knows they think Christianity is "bad too" and in that way shield themselves from looking like they're criticising Islam unfairly, which of course they usually are anyway."

Huh? No, the hypocrisy lies in getting outraged over some muslims committing some hate crime vandalism in Pakistan, while apologizing for the Christian-led slaughter of 1.2 million people in Iraq.

[spoony]

141. Uh huh, and who's doing that, then?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

76. why thank you. and yes you are correct.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

75. no its a point about religious bigotry, its one thing to say all religions have been violent

and another to just single out islam.

also callign the prophet a pedophile is sickening especially from supposed liberals

[La Lioness Priyanka]

77. also i dont know if you bothered to read the original response that was deleted

but it clearly stated NO Other religion is as violent as islam. what bullshit. it is in this context that i raised the use of christianity and violence.

[puffymuffins]

83. I stand by the fact that fundamentalist islam is violent

What fundamentalist religion is more actively violent today than fundamentalist Islam? What other fundamentalist religion other than fund. islam encourages and preaches killing in God's name?

Funny, there are all kinds of threads that are very Christian-specific, and no one seems particulary upset to hear remarks such as "Pope Nazi the child molester" No run runs to the mods to have it deleted. And rightfully so. Why should it be deleted? Same should apply to Mohammed. There is much scholarly evidence to suggest that Mo liked his women on the, uh, very, very young side.

Same should go for the whackjob religion known as fundamentalist islam. Why should it not be criticized? Why should Christianity be brought into a thread that criticizes islam? If you have a distaste for Christianity, there are many existing threads that you can participate in, or start one yourself.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

92. Well, there's Christianity...

they're killing some 1.2 million Muslims. "Invade their country. Kill their leaders. Convert them to Christianity," as somebody once said.

""Pope Nazi the child molester"

Well, the Pope was a Nazi. And he protected child molesters. That's really got nothing to do with his religion.

"Same should apply to Mohammed. There is much scholarly evidence to suggest that Mo liked his women on the, uh, very, very young side."

So you're saying you believe in the literal interpretation of the Koran?

"Same should go for the whackjob religion known as fundamentalist islam."

Fundamentalist Islam isn't a religion. It's extremism, baring little difference to whackjob fundamentalist christianity.

"Why should Christianity be brought into a thread that criticizes islam?"

I think the whole idea is that nobody should be a religious bigot at all. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Sound familiar?

[puffymuffins]

117. "So you believe in a literal interpretation of the Koran"

Hell no! I don't belive in any of that swill at all, in any way. But the fundie islamists believe in a literal interpretation of it. That's why they chop off heads with gleeful enthusiasm and then post videos of it on the internet. That's why they destroy age-old Buddhist carvings and commit murder and mayhem if an infidel dare criticize ol' Mo. Intolerance at its finest! What other fundie religions go to that violent extreme?

+edit grammar.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

118. So you're trying to have it both ways?

You try to disparage Islam based on a literal interpretation of the Koran regarding the age of one of Mohammed's wives, but you don't believe in the Koran at all?

Who are you trying to kid?

"What other fundie religions go to that violent extreme?"

Well, there's Christians who burn across, hang a black guy, have a picnic, then takes pictures.

[puffymuffins]

121. I disparage fundie islam.

It is a dangerous, violent mindset. I assume you agree.

Give me current-day evidence of anyone who has hung a black guy, red guy, brown guy or white guy because Christian clerics schooled him and taught to do so.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

123. You disparage Islam.

"It is a dangerous, violent mindset. I assume you agree."

Actually, no. Some fundamentalists are violent. Some are not.

"Give me current-day evidence of anyone who has hung a black guy, red guy, brown guy or white guy because Christian clerics schooled him and taught to do so."

Are you arguing that Christianity wasn't a religion forty years ago?

[puffymuffins]

125. Are you arguing that 40 years ago is current?

There are plenty of current examples of Islam clerics who advocate and teach killing in the name of allah. Can you give me plenty of examples of the Christian version of these madrassa religious hate schools?

[puffymuffins]

126. BTW

If I had chosen to disparage Islam, is that OK or not? If I choose to disparage Chritianity or Judaism or Pastafarianism is that OK or not?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

127. "If I had chosen to disparage Islam, is that OK or not?"

No, it's not OK. It's bigotry. It's disgusting. And you should be ashamed of yourself.

[puffymuffins]

132. WTF???????

So, Islam or any religion is beyond reproach and untouchable in your book???? Do you know the definition of facism?

BTW, whenever you make your way to the dictionary, I also encourage you to try to comprehend the definition of bigotry too, because I don't think you know what it means.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

145. calling the prophet a pedophile is bigoted. nt

[leftynyc]

150. So I assume if I look back on threads

where Christianity is being mocked, I'll find you defending Christianity and calling everyone a bigot. This should take only a minute to see.

[Cobalt Violet]

138. It's excellent.

There is nothing wrong with being able to look at something critically and making and having opionion about it.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

144. there is something profoundly wrong in calling the prophet mohammed a pedophile.

its not a critique. its blatant bigotry.

[puffymuffins]

146. It's not a label I pulled out of thin air.

There is scholarly evidence to suggest that he liked his women on the young side. The very young side. What term would you give to a grown man that likes very very young women? Do a google search and you'll come up with tons of info on this very well known debate about Mo


Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64: Sahih Bukhari

Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

Edit to add:

As far as your view on bigotry, I guess you would have to also conclude that The Flying Spaghetti Monster Avatar should should be banned from use here and further reference to T.F.S.M. should be deleted, because that, in your eyes, is likely the most heinous example of bigotry, as it does not merely insult a prophet, but it is a direct insult to God. Would that be correct?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

95. i have a distaste for bigots. fundamental religions of all sorts are violent

be in christianity, hinduism or islam

[puffymuffins]

113. Yes, but this thread is about whackjob Islamists

So, why can't we concentrate just on that? Why dilute it? Sacred cow? That's the impression I get.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

116. So you're saying if it were about those whackjobs in NYC who desecrated a synagogue...

you'd have no problem disparaging Christianity/

[puffymuffins]

119. Correct.

If their actions were based on their religious beliefs, I would not tolerate it. And there are plenty of fundie Christian whackjobs on which threads are started to heap well-deserved blame. But, islam whackjobs seem to get kid glove treatment by many. Why?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

120. But you were just saying Christians don't do this sort of thign.

So it sounds like you're trying to have it both ways again.

What do they call that? Flip-flopping?

[puffymuffins]

122. I said "if"

I have no knowledge of Christian clerics who school their congregation to kill those who "blaspheme." Do you? If so, produce it!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

124. ...

"It's no wonder, with that kind of intense training and discipling, that those young people are ready to kill themselves for the cause of Islam. I wanna see young people who are as committed to the cause of Jesus Christ as the young people are to the cause of Islam. I wanna see them as radically laying down their lives for the Gospel as they are over in Pakistan and Israel and Palestine and all those different places, you know, because we have... excuse me, but we have the truth!"

-Becky Fisher, childrens pastor, "Jesus Camp"

[puffymuffins]

133. What the hell is that quote supposed to prove?

Is quoting some lady's rambling wish your equivalent example of someone teaching young people how to chop off heads and kill and maim and strap on bombs in the name of allah????

Got any more scary proof?


:rofl:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

128. you are the one who brought up how only islam engages in violence

dont blame me for this,

[puffymuffins]

134. No, I said they were the most violent

Which they defintitely are. I guess someone's gotta be #1 at that, and they get the "honor." I also said that fundie islam is the only religion that I know that actively teaches and promotes (and is successful) in teaching its disciples to kill in the name of God.

If you have knowledge of other fundy religions that do a better job in this area of instruction, let me know.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

136. actually they arent, its just that when christians bomb a country they use a different pretext

like 'spreading democracy' or some such shit.


had iraq bombed us we would have blamed islam. ofcourse when we bomb them its just bad foreign policy not religious bigotry.

oil may have been the actual reason for bombing iraq but religious bigotry of christians made it possible.

[CJCRANE]

148. The "Islamic World"

is only a small part of the world and due to the West's interest in their resources the MSM tend to concentrate on that culture these days. But muslims don't have a monopoly on violence nor are they #1. The Rwanda genocide was only a few years ago when a million people were wiped out within a few weeks in a supposedly christian country. The longest civil war (post World War II) with the most civilian casualties was in the Congo, not a muslim country AFAIK (major combat in that war only ended a few years ago).

The reality is that at any one time there are approxy 30 wars going on around the world but of course the MSM can't cover them all (and to be honest most people aren't interested) so they generally focus on one or two at a time.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

143. if you want to not bring other religions in dont make comparisons between them

[Trajan]

142. A huge trove of classic literature is lost forever .....

Thanks to Theodosius I and his rampage of 'Pagans' .....

Ah ... forgetting (or even ignorance) makes things SO much easier ! ....

[shenmue]

29. Thanks again, religious fanatics, for making this world a much better place to live!

:sarcasm:

I think I'm going to go *not* blow something up now.

Do these people have nothing else to do?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

80. agreed. religious fanatics suck.

[Cobalt Violet]

38. Totalitarian idiots.

[hayu_lol]

43. Interesting, that while this thread unwinds, anti-war activists in SF...

are building a statue of Buddha in front of Pelosi's house in the high rent district of SF she lives in. She claims that her neighbors do not appreciate the attention and/or the commotion.

Something built in the 7th century of course, was built at the time of the rise of Islam. Many of them are still very primitive...sort of like our Baptists and other evangelicals are primitive. Both claim to have the only answer to certain questions.

[NMMNG]

45. The joys of fundamentalism.

Where would we be without it? :sarcasm:

[SyntaxError]

57. peaceful...

heh, at least probably a little bit more.... Then again, I'm sure us dumbass humans would find something else to kill each other over.

[NMMNG]

91. Quite possibly

But if so, at least we wouldn't try to claim we were being noble and holy while doing so.

[ProudDad]

81. That's a bullshit heading on that article

It seems to paint all "Islamists" or Moslems with that crime against humanity...

The Taliban forever earned my emnity by blowing up hundreds of ancient Buddhas in Afghanistan when they controlled the whole country.

This is a crime against humanity (and the only "religion" worth a damn)...

[barb162]

87. These Islamic radicals have no respect for the religion of others

or the beliefs of others.
Sad.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

137. fundamental religous zealots are dangerous. as are every other kind of bigot.,

[NuttyFluffers]

140. not very neighborly.

in fact, i'd say it's downright inhospitable.

what ever happened to do unto others as you would have done unto you? would they enjoy it if someone destroyed their 'ungraven' images? or call them out for the engraved calligraphy of Q'uran quotes as being equal to such blasphemous graven images? sometimes there's just that asshole in the back that's gotta ruin the party...

[NorthernSpy]

152. 'tards!

Those were items of culture.

Stupid unreasonable fux!


They can't see it, but I'm giving them all the Finger.

[fbahrami]

154. think

We/You invaded Afghanistan based on a similar story (and of course another story of them "harboring" OBL).

Is this a prelude to another invasion?

Sweet dreams, America.