Concert ban for 'Chavez critic'

[Psephos]

Source: BBC News

By Will Grant
Americas editor, BBC News
Friday, October 12, 2007

A popular Spanish singer has been banned from performing in a Caracas stadium over remarks he made about Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez.

A government minister accused Alejandro Sanz of criticising Mr Chavez three years ago while touring Venezuela. The musician has been banned from staging a concert at a state-run stadium but the government says he can perform at any privately owned venue. Some 15,000 fans hoped to see Sanz at the gig in the capital on 1 November.

The pop singer may have sold 21 million albums and won more than a dozen Latin Grammys, but the Venezuelan higher education minister, Luis Acuna, is not among his admirers. He accused the musician of railing against Mr Chavez and his Bolivarian revolution.

<snip>

(The decision) comes a few months after Mr Chavez warned foreigners they faced expulsion if they came to Venezuela to criticise him or his political agenda.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7040800.stm

[rinsd]

1. It makes me sick that THIS country does this kind of crap.

I wonder how the Chavista will handle their Dear Leader doing the same.

[ngant17]

26. Sick? I'd say it is a natural reaction in self-defense

of the republic of Venezuela. Did you forget the attempted coup which was supported by US and rightwing plotters in Venezuela? Or the assassination threats coming from USA?

If there was an attempted coup against a US President, and some popular musician was supporting it, I would say that the official US reaction would have been far more draconian that what Chavez did.

Double-standards, indeed!

[rinsd]

32. So this singer was part of the coup? Or made an assasination threat?

Or did he just criticize Chavez?

The Bush policies on keeping foreign critics out of the US is reprehensible.

It seems much like Bush in our country, Chavez is using fear as a weapon.

But I knew I would find a Chavista willing to defend such actions.

[Socal31]

34. Ewwwwwwwwwwwwww!

Chavez apologists!

[struggle4progress]

133. South African scholar kept from U.S. for political views (Sept 2007)

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2007/09/25/lawsuit_south_african_scholar_kept_from_us_for_political_views/

[struggle4progress]

134. US Embassy Declares Salvadoran Anti-Privatization Work “Dangerous” to US Public (Sept 07)

... On Thursday 20, the U.S. Embassy in El Salvador denied Salvadoran union leader Maria de los Angeles Pleitez Carcamo a visa to come on a speaking tour of the U.S. Pleitez is scheduled to participate in CISPES’s “We Are Not Terrorists, Organizing is Our Right!” tour from Oct 16-31. During the tour Pleitez will talk about her union’s work to stop the privatization of the public health care system and the increasing repression that social movement and union leaders are suffering from the Salvadoran government.

On the morning of September 20, Pleitez went to the U.S. Consulate in San Salvador and presented all of her documents, including proof of work, family ties, and over a dozen letters of invitation from Congressional Representatives and other community groups. In the visa interview, the U.S. consular representative questioned Pleitez about her ties to CISPES and her union work. The official rejection letter cited lack of “economic and social ties” to El Salvador, but the interviewing officer made it clear that the rejection was a political decision when he concluded the interview, saying “this is very delicate situation…you cannot travel because we need to protect U.S. security.”

Pleitez believes she was denied the visa because the U.S. government does not want people in the United States to know about repression against the social movement and union leaders in El Salvador ...

http://upsidedownworld.org/main/content/view/907/68/

[Judi Lynn]

152. After all the damage done to El Salvador by our own right wing, and Bush is just getting started.

Un-####ing-believable, isn't it? They're trying to privatize everything in order to get whatever additional power hasn't been usurped into the hands of the oligarchy/right-wing, and the people are being told to take this beating and shut up about it. That's the way it's going to be, apparently.

From the article:

Pleitez is a national leader in the Salvadoran General Hospitals Union (SIGEESAL), and SIGEESAL has recently been targeted for its work to stop privatization. On September 4, eight SIGEESAL members were illegally arrested for participating in a demonstration against the privatization of the national health care system. A number of other organizations have also been attacked for their activism recently. In July, 14 people were arrested in Suchitoto for participating in a peaceful protest against the privatization of water. Those protesters are being charged with “terrorist acts” and face up to 60 years of prison. The SIGEESAL activists are being charged with public disorder and could also face years in prison.

The U.S. Embassy in El Salvador is contributing to the repression of the social movement and union organizing by denying this visa and not allowing Ms. Pleitez to tell their stories in the United States.....
(snip)

As we saw, in the case of attempted water privatization in Bolivia, _Bush's dad's ally, Bechtel was involved in trying to get control also of all the water in the lakes, rivers, streams, ponds, and even RAINWATER the people hoped to catch in barrels when their water costs skyrocketed!

Want to see a timeline showing the damage the U.S. right-wing has ALREADY inflicted in El Salvador?

Last Updated: Wednesday, 6 June 2007, 15:19 GMT 16:19 UK

Timeline: El Salvador
A chronology of key events

~snip~
1961 - Right-wing National Conciliation Party (PCN) comes to power after a military coup.

1969 - El Salvador attacks and fights a brief war with Honduras following the eviction of thousands of Salvadoran illegal immigrants from Honduras.

1977 - Guerrilla activities by the left-wing Farabundo Marti National Liberation Front (FMLN) intensify amid reports of increased human rights violations by government troops and death squads; General Carlos Romero elected president.

1979-81 - Around 30,000 people are killed by army-backed right-wing death squads.

1979 - General Romero ousted in coup by reformist officers who install a military-civilian junta, but this fails to curb army-backed political violence.

1980 - Archbishop of San Salvador and human rights campaigner Oscar Romero assassinated; Jose Napoleon Duarte becomes first civilian president since 1931.

1981 - France and Mexico recognise the FMLN as legitimate political force; US continues to assist El Salvadoran government whose army continues to back right-wing death squads.

1982 - Extreme right-wing National Republican Alliance (Arena) wins parliamentary elections marked by violence.

1984 - Duarte wins presidential election.

1986 - Duarte begins quest for negotiated settlement with FMLN.

1989 - FMLN attacks intensify; another Arena candidate, Alfredo Cristiani, voted president in elections widely believed to have been rigged.

Peace and natural disasters

1991 - FMLN recognised as political party; government and FMLN sign UN-sponsored peace accord.

1993 - Government declares amnesty for those implicated by UN-sponsored commission in human rights atrocities.
(snip/...)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/country_profiles/1220818.stm



Villagers carrying remains of their loved ones
massacred by right-wing government forces, for reburial.

They haven't forgotten:
http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-37,GGLD:en&q=El+Salvador+massacre&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi

[struggle4progress]

135. Free Speech Groups Sue Over Visa Denial (Sept 07)

By NEIL MacFARQUHAR
Published: September 26, 2007

... The government is increasingly using secret evidence allowed under new antiterrorism laws to prevent certain critics from entering the United States, according to a group of civil rights and academic organizations ...

Under the McCarran-Walter Act of 1952, which was written in part to limit the entry of communists or their sympathizers, the United States has had a history of barring prominent intellectuals. Those denied entry visas over the years under McCarran-Walter have included the writers Gabriel García Márquez and Graham Greene as well as political figures like Pierre Trudeau, long before he became prime minister of Canada ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/26/us/26visa.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

[struggle4progress]

136. Iran's leading filmmaker denied U.S. visa (Sept 2007)

Director Abbas Kiarostami, one of international cinema's biggest names, is blocked from attending the New York Film Festival and speaking at Harvard.
By Andrew O'Hehir
http://dir.salon.com/story/ent/movies/2002/09/27/kiarostami/index.html

[struggle4progress]

137. Politics Keeps Scholars Out of U.S., Critics Say (June 2007)

Withholding visas is said to endanger America's intellectual freedom
By BURTON BOLLAG

For nine months, Riyadh Lafta, an Iraqi professor of medicine, tried to get a visa to visit the University of Washington, where he had been invited to share his research on the unusually high rates of cancer among children in southern Iraq.

But by last March, with no visa forthcoming, the American institution came up with an alternative plan. Mr. Lafta would deliver his lecture at Simon Fraser University, in Vancouver, British Columbia, and it would be broadcast by video to a public meeting long planned for the purpose at Washington.

The day before his mid-April flight, however, the British consulate in Amman, Jordan, turned down his request for a transit visa to change planes at London's Heathrow Airport. So Mr. Lafta, a faculty member at Baghdad's Al-Mustansiriya University, had to make the long and dangerous trip back to the Iraqi capital.

His American research partners say they think they know why he never received a U.S. visa: The Iraqi was one of the principal authors of an October 2006 study published in the British medical journal The Lancet that controversially estimated that more than 650,000 Iraqis — far more than officially reported — had died as a result of the American-led invasion ...

http://chronicle.com/free/v53/i41/41a00101.htm

[Judi Lynn]

153. Unbelievable! The administration can undoubtedly keep this man's information from being published in

our corporate media, information which reflects badly on his genocidal attack on Iraq, but the only way to make sure NO ONE from the general public has a prayer of a chance of hearing about it is to keep the man himself from ever appearing here!

Censorship? Somewhat, wouldn't you say? Intimidate the already docile media into not taking interest in the important truth he tells, then make sure no one else gets a chance to hear him and spread the news.

The one thing _Bush doesn't want is that the world finds out just how hellish his game really is.

[struggle4progress]

159. Hey! Look over there! Quick! Chavez! It's Chavez! Worry about Chavez!

Hey! Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!

http://www.lonestartimes.com.nyud.net:8090/images/Benzion/Oz_Curtain.JPG

[redqueen]

2. Nice framing.

Anyone who thinks the beeb is above reproach need look no further than their coverage of Chavez to rid themselves of that illusion.

Concert ban, yes... at public concert houses... still free to perform at private venues.

[Doctor Cynic]

3. Hang on here

so what would the reaction here be if George Bush disallowed a concert because the lead performer was a Democrat? There already was an outcry when extremist Republicans tried to block Live Earth from being performed in front of the Capitol. I'm sick of all the excuses some people on this board have given to defend Chavez. It's sounding more and more like how some tried to defend Apartheid South Africa 20 years ago.

[redqueen]

5. I'm not defending Chavez.

I'm pointing out the framing.

And your example of Live Aid is ridiculous. The two incidents are not the same.



Shameful, the obsession people have here with Chavez, especially because it is nurtured by the corporatists who are taking over the entire world.

[angstlessk]

7. they DID stop it from being played ... it just got played elsewhere in DC

sorry...Boosh would not invite Media Benjamin to ANY GOVERMENT BUILDING/VENUE TO PERFORM...no matter how many records she sold!

[struggle4progress]

138. Constitutional law scholar on no-fly list (April 2007)

By Michael Juel-Larsen
Princetonian Senior Writer

One of the most prominent names on the Transportation Security Administration's 44,000-person no-fly list is that of constitutional law scholar and emeritus politics professor Walter Murphy ...

Murphy tried to check in at the curb after arriving at the airport in Albuquerque, N.M., where he lives in retirement. An airline employee told him he couldn't be issued a boarding pass because he was on the TSA's no-fly list and put forth some conjectures on why.

"One of the two people I talked to said, 'Yes, you're on the list. Did you participate in any speech or marches?' " Murphy said in an interview. "And then before I could respond, he said, 'We ban a lot of people from flying for that.' "

Murphy told the employee that he had recently given a speech criticizing the Bush administration. "That'll do it," the employee replied ...

http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2007/04/10/news/18014.shtml

[Judi Lynn]

143. We get more and more of these, don't we? Isn't it funny we've already started overlooking this,

with some people accommodating it altogether without question.

I think it has ALWAYS been a given that the right-wing simply wants to see everyone else eliminated, one way or another. They do NOT encourage "healthy" debate, and never did. That's simple _{George W. Bush}think. They only raise hell about it if it looks as if any right-winger might have been overlooked, slighted, ignored, even if accidental. They have absolutely no intention whatsoever of sharing this country with Democrats, never did. Whatever power they have won by stealth, fraudulence, they intend to keep forever, at whatever cost.

From the article about Walter Murphy's reaction after being told about why he had been banned:

Murphy's initial reaction was one of rage.

"I didn't (-go public with the information-) for three-plus weeks because the steam was coming out of my ears, and I did not want to simply shout invectives," he said. "I waited until I could laugh at parts of it; there is, after all, a comic value to a group of draft dodgers telling a war veteran that he can't get on an airplane."
(snip)

[struggle4progress]

139. Why's a Retired Army Lieutenant Colonel on the "No-Fly" List? (Feb 2006)

thebeat
BLOG | Posted 02/24/2006 @ 2:43pm
John Nichols

... When Dr. Robert Johnson, a heart surgeon who did his active duty with the U.S. Army Reserve before being honorably discharged with the rank of Lieutenant Colonel, arrived at the Syracuse airport near his home in upstate New York last month for a flight to Florida, he was told he could not travel ...

"Why would a former lieutenant colonel who swore an oath to defend and protect our country pose a threat of terrorism?" he asked, in an interview with the Plattsburgh Press-Republican newspaper ...

The story's gotten a good deal of media attention in upstate New York, and Johnson is speculating with reporters about whether his name ended up on the list because he ran against McHugh as a veteran who boldly declared that: "I know the ravages of war and I know the sacrifices that have to be made when a war is in our national interest. This war is not in our national interest." ...

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat?pid=63406

[struggle4progress]

140. James Moore: Are You on the No Fly List, Too? (Mar 2007)

Posted March 2, 2007 | 09:59 AM (EST)

... I have been on the No Fly Watch List for two years and two months, in spite of the fact that I have one of the most mundane names in the English language, have never been arrested, pay my taxes on time, and turn into a whimpering sap at the playing of the National Anthem. Of course, I have also written three books critical of the Bush administration ...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-moore/are-you-on-the-no-fly-lis_b_42443.html

[struggle4progress]

141. No-fly blacklist snares political activists (Sept 2002)

Alan Gathright, Chronicle Staff Writer
Friday, September 27, 2002

A federal "No Fly" list, intended to keep terrorists from boarding planes, is snaring peace activists at San Francisco International and other U. S. airports, triggering complaints that civil liberties are being trampled ... One detainment forced a group of 20 Wisconsin anti-war activists to miss their flight, delaying their trip to meet with congressional representatives by a day. That case and others are raising questions about the criteria federal authorities use to place people on the list -- and whether people who exercise their constitutional right to dissent are being lumped together with terrorists ...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2002/09/27/MN181034.DTL

[Judi Lynn]

148. The records they're compiling on LEGAL behavior by citizens are alarming!

From the article:

In November, Nancy Oden, a Green Party USA official in Maine, wound up being a suspect passenger and was barred from flying out of the Bangor airport to Chicago, where she planned to attend a Green Party meeting and make a presentation about "pesticides as weapons of war."

Oden said a National Guardsman grabbed her arm when she tried to help a security screener searching her bags with a stuck zipper. The middle-aged woman, who said she was conservatively dressed and wore no anti-war buttons, said the guardsman seemed to know her activist background.

"He started spouting this pro-war nonsense: 'Don't you understand that we have to get them before they get us? Don't you understand what happened on Sept. 11?"
(snip)

That's surely ####ing with her freedom of speech if they prevent her from going to meetings and speeches where she has agreed to appear.

[struggle4progress]

142. Bush's War on T-Shirts (Feb 2006)

Published on Thursday, February 2, 2006 by the Madison Capital-Times (Wisconsin)

... Sheehan, who caused no ruckus, was arrested not because she engaged in "unlawful conduct." Rather, by all accounts, she was arrested because of what her T-shirt said ...

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0202-25.htm

[Judi Lynn]

146. Good one! The right-wing forgot to raise hell about Cindy's rights here, too.

She was "identified as a dissident," arrested, and dragged around because of her clothes choice! How evolved. From the article:

Is there really a law against wearing a political T-shirt to the State of the Union address? No.

The Capitol Police do have protocols that are followed in order to avoid "incidents" during major events. But their own actions Tuesday night confirm that Sheehan was singled out for rough justice.

Beverly Young, the wife of Rep. C.W. Bill Young, a Florida Republican who chairs the House Defense Appropriations subcommittee, showed up for the State of the Union address sporting a T-shirt that read, "Support the Troops Defending Our Freedom." When Capitol Police asked her to leave the gallery because she was wearing clothing that featured a political message, Young says, she argued loudly with officers and called one of them "an idiot."

But Young was not handcuffed. She was not dragged from the Capitol. She was not arrested. She was not jailed.

Sheehan, who caused no ruckus, was arrested not because she engaged in "unlawful conduct." Rather, by all accounts, she was arrested because of what her T-shirt said and, by extension, because of what she believes.
(snip)

Beyond belief in a normal world, but, in this right-wing dominated crapfest, TOTALLY CREDIBLE.

[struggle4progress]

144. Bush Seeks To Forbid Dissent At Public Events (June 2007)

... The lawsuit names as plaintiffs Jeff and Nicole Rank, who were arrested at a Fourth of July presidential appearance at the West Virginia State Capitol because they were wearing t-shirts critical of the president, and Alex Young and Leslie Weise, Denver residents who were thrown out of a town hall meeting with President Bush because they had an anti-war bumper sticker on their car.

The Ranks had tickets to attend the July 4, 2004 event, but drew attention when they removed their outer garments to display t-shirts bearing the international “no” symbol (a circle with a diagonal line across it) superimposed over the word “Bush.” Although other people in the audience were allowed to wear pro-Bush paraphernalia, White House event staff demanded that the Ranks remove or cover their t-shirts.

When the Ranks refused, the White House staffers instructed local police to arrest the couple, causing them to be removed from the Capitol grounds in handcuffs, jailed and charged with trespassing ...

... Weise and Young had tickets to attend the March 21, 2005 Denver town hall on Social Security, but they were singled out after a staffer was informed that Weise had a bumper sticker on her car that read, “No More Blood for Oil.” Weise was stopped upon entering the event and warned that she had been “ID’d,” but was allowed to enter. However, shortly after reaching their seats, Weise and Young were forcibly removed from the event by a staffer who later admitted that he was acting under orders from White House officials ...

http://www.northcountrygazette.org/news/2007/06/28/public_dissent/

[Judi Lynn]

155. Mrs. Rank was also suspended from her job!

From the article:

.....Ms. Rank was also temporarily suspended from her work with the Federal Emergency Management Agency. City officials later apologized for their part in the arrest when they realized they’d been used as political operatives by the White House.
(snip)

The ACLU lawsuit also cites other occasions throughout the country in which individuals were excluded from presidential events because of their political views. For example, in LaCrosse, Wisconsin, ticket holders in line to hear the president speak had to unbutton their shirts before they could get inside. One individual was wearing a t-shirt critical of the president, and was ejected by security officials. In Fargo, North Dakota, several dozen individuals were placed on a “do not admit list” of those forbidden to attend a presidential event; most of the individuals on the list belonged to a liberal organization, and some had written letters to the editor opposing the president’s policies. And in Tucson, Arizona, a student was barred from a presidential forum on Social Security because he was wearing a Young Democrats t-shirt.
(snip)

Thanks for providing these great links. I'm saving them for future reference.

[struggle4progress]

145. Getting Busted for Wearing a Peace T-Shirt (July 2006)

Has This Country Gone Completely Insane?

Weekend Edition
July 1 - 2, 2006
By MIKE FERNER

... "You can't be in here protesting," Officer Adkins said, pointing to my Veterans For Peace shirt ...

"Hey, listen. I'm a veteran. This is a V.A. facility. I'm sitting here not talking to anybody, having a cup of coffee. I'm not protesting and you can't kick me out."

"You'll either go or we'll arrest you," Adkins threatened ...

You know the rest. Handcuffed, led away to the facility's security office past people with surprised looks on their faces, read my rights, searched, and written up ...

http://www.counterpunch.org/ferner07012006.html

[Judi Lynn]

149. You wouldn't expect a veteran to have to fight when he got back home, just to wear his t-shirt!

He's keeping a great perspective, however, and it looks as he's up to the challenge:

After informing me I could either pay the $275 fine on the citation or appear in court, Ousley escorted me off the premises, warning me if I returned with "that shirt" on, I'd be arrested and booked into jail.

I'm sure I could go back to officers Adkins' and Ousleys' fiefdom with a shirt that said, "Nuke all the hajis," or "Show us your tits," or any number of truly obscene things and no one would care. Just so it's not "that shirt" again.
(snip)

We've seen already that U.S. veterans are NOT welcome to express their opinions in _Bush's country now, if they don't support _Bush's genocidal assault on Iraq.

[struggle4progress]

147. Man arrested for 'peace' T-shirt (Mar 2003)

Tuesday, March 4, 2003 Posted: 9:52 PM EST (0252 GMT)

NEW YORK (Reuters) -- A lawyer was arrested late Monday and charged with trespassing at a public mall in the state of New York after refusing to take off a T-shirt advocating peace that he had just purchased at the mall.

According to the criminal complaint filed Monday, Stephen Downs was wearing a T-shirt bearing the words "Give Peace A Chance" that he had just purchased from a vendor inside the Crossgates Mall in Guilderland, New York, near Albany.

"I was in the food court with my son when I was confronted by two security guards and ordered to either take off the T-shirt or leave the mall," said Downs.

When Downs refused the security officers' orders, police from the town of Guilderland were called and he was arrested and taken away in handcuffs, charged with trespassing "in that he knowingly enter(ed) or remain(ed) unlawfully upon premises," the complaint read ...

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/03/04/iraq.usa.shirt.reut/index.html

[struggle4progress]

150. So lemme see if I got this straight: the US regularly excludes foreigners

who are not ideologically pure; there's several years worth of evidence that US citizens, who criticize the Pretender or his war, may lose their travel rights; and in our country today, anybody wearing the wrong T-shirt may win a set of bracelets and a trip downtown in the paddy wagon.

And you want me to get all choked up cuz somebody decided a foreign artist visiting Venezuela couldn't use a particular stadium?

[Judi Lynn]

154. Publicly financed stadium! Can you imagine ANY anti-war entertainer

being allowed to appear at ANY publicly financed event anywhere in this entire country? It's not going to happen.

As you've read, they even have people out scouring the parking lots, looking at bumper stickers of people attending right-wing political rallies, and running the "wrong ones" off!

[struggle4progress]

151. Supreme Court refuses to hear suit over alleged CIA torture (October 2007)

By David G. Savage
Los Angeles Times
Article Launched: 10/10/2007 01:31:34 AM PDT

WASHINGTON - In a victory for the Bush administration and its use of the "state secrets" defense, the Supreme Court refused Tuesday to hear a lawsuit from a German car salesman who said he was wrongly abducted, imprisoned and tortured by the CIA in a case of mistaken identity ...

http://www.mercurynews.com/politics/ci_7134451

[ProudDad]

168. Get a fucking clue

2007 Venzuela is the OPPOSITE of Apartheid South Africa.

If you want to talk about some place that's like Apartheid South Africa, try this place;

http://www.electronicintifada.net/bytopic/apartheidwall.shtml

http://www.antiwar.com/hacohen/h052103.html

[angstlessk]

4. would that be like when Laura Boosh stopped the Poets from

meeting in the Whitehouse?? you know a government venue? where people disagree with the current administration? that sort of thing?

[redqueen]

6. Yup. It's a war of ideas.

We've passed the point of polite disagreement... decades ago.

[cali]

78. No. The poets refused to go to the White House. See

the difference?

[angstlessk]

116. YOU are wrong...see link attached...LAURA CANCELLED the engagement

http://www.pw.org/mag/is_poetsforpeacereadings.htm

[Judi Lynn]

118. Thanks. That's the way we heard it, of course! n/t

[Tempest]

8. Our own government did this very thing recently

The U.S. government refused to grant a visa to a singer who had criticized Bush.

[Judi Lynn]

10. They refuse to allow Cuban musicians into the U.S. to participate in the Latin Grammys.

They also refuse to allow Cuban educators and scientists, and other professionals and specialists into the country to attend seminars, to accept invitations to speak, etc., etc., etc.

[Tempest]

14. And at the same time...

Americans, even those who support Bush, will criticize Chavez and call him a dictator.

We're turning into a country of hypocrites, mostly thanks to the current administration.

[Judi Lynn]

16. Bush's administration even fixed it so BOOKS written by Cubans can't be allowed in here.

That has to be a new low!

Do you remember this event? Just ran across it again in a search:

Cuba offers to donate tournament money
According to Reuters, Cuba said it would donate any money received from World Baseball Classic to Hurricane Katrina victims if the U.S. Government reverses a controversial decision to deny Cuba’s participation.

Fidel Castro had given the go-ahead permission for Cuba to participate the inaugural World Baseball Classic. But Cuba would have needed a special license from the U.S. Treasury Department’s Office of Foreign Assets Control, which enforces the U.S. economic embargo against Cuba.

The United States Government denied Major League Baseball a license that would allow Cuba to play in the inaugural World Baseball Classic. The decision got protests from the U.S. Olympic Committee, Major League Baseball, numerous politicians and others.

Based on the regulation of tournament, Cuba would get the 1 percent of tournament revenues and 5 percent if it won, that is not allowed by U.S. Treasury Department.

“The Cuban baseball federation, in an effort to find options, would be ready for the money corresponding to its participation in the classic to go to the victims of Hurricane Katrina left homeless in New Orleans,” the federation said in a letter to Major League Baseball.

Cuba labeled the Bush administration as “shameful” and “absurd” and “having nothing to do with sports.”
(snip/...)

http://wbcblog.com/2005/12/23/cuba-offers-to-donate-tournament-money/

[hack89]

45. So Bush is the model for other leaders to emulate?

OK. I guess two wrongs do make a right.

[struggle4progress]

157. Yeah, let's get all breathless: El concierto de Alejandro Sanz en Caracas busca un nuevo escenario

Caracas, 11 oct (EFE).- El concierto del cantante español Alejandro Sanz en Caracas, el 1 de noviembre, no se celebrará en el Poliedro ... Fuentes de Evenpro indicaron a Efe que el concierto sigue programado para la fecha prevista y que se intenta encontrar una ubicación adecuada ... La semana pasada, el ministerio venezolano de Educación Superior, del que depende el recinto desde principios de septiembre, publicó un comunicado en el que se ratificaba la celebración de diversos eventos previstos en el Poliedro pero se suspendían dos ... En la nota se alegaban motivos de seguridad pero medios informativos relacionaron el hecho con unas declaraciones de Alejandro Sanz que, en su última visita a Venezuela, en 2004, afirmó que le desagradaba el presidente Hugo Chávez ...

The concert of Spanish singer Alejandro Sanz in Caracas on November 1 will not be held at the Poliedro ... Evenpro sources told Efe that the concert is still scheduled for the scheduled date and that the company will try to find a suitable location ... Last week, the Venezuelan Ministry of Higher Education, in charge of the compound since early September, issued a statement in confirming various events in the Poliedro but suspending two ... The note alleged security reasons but media linked the statements made by Alejandro Sanz, in his last visit to Venezuela ...

http://es.news.launch.yahoo.com/dyna/article.html?a=/11102007/185/concierto-alejandro-sanz-caracas-busca-nuevo-escenario.html&e=l_news


I'm wondering: should I have gotten all breathless and wobbly-kneed about the following cancellations? It's just a frickin concert ...

Alejandro Sanz concert cancelled at Sandia Resort & Casino (May 2007)
http://www.itsatrip.org/media/press-releases/detail.aspx?ReleaseID=37

Alejandro Sanz, Canceled in Uruguay (Mar 2007)
... The organizers refused to disclose the reasons for the cancellation or whether there will be another concert ...
http://www.voymusic.com/radio/artists-special_report-51233-alejandro_sanz-alejandro_sanz_canceled_in_uruguay
http://www.voymusic.com/radio/artists-special_report-51248-alejandro_sanz-alejandro_sanz_cheered_in_buenos_aires

<edit: format>

[rudeboy666]

9. so 'liberal' of them

[LisaM]

11. Didn't OUR country refuse Cat Stevens entrance?

Entrance into the ocuntry at all, not just a refusal of a venue.

[Honeycombe8]

162. Yes, but because he contributed to a source that funds Hamas. Not 'cause of his views. nt

[struggle4progress]

167. Horseshit: White House officials could safely meet with him in May 2004 but

by September 2004 he was such a threat that his flight had to make a 600 mile detour to keep him from landing in DC? *snork*

WASHINGTON, Sept. 21 - The Department of Homeland Security ordered a United Airlines jet flying from London to Washington rerouted to Bangor, Me., on Tuesday afternoon so it could intercept a passenger, Yusuf Islam, the musician formerly known as Cat Stevens, two government officials said. Mr. Islam was "denied entry into the United States," said an official, and was in the custody of Immigrations and Customs Enforcement. The plan on Tuesday evening was to deport Mr. Islam, who is a British subject, the officials said. The officials .. said they could not be named because this was a security issue ...
Flight Is Diverted to Detain Former Pop Singer
By MATTHEW L. WALD
Published: September 22, 2004
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/22/politics/22flight.html?n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/Subjects/R/Religion%20and%20Belief

... It emerged yesterday that on his last visit in May he met with officials of the White House's office of faith-based and community initiatives to discuss philanthropic work. The US department of homeland security said last night that fresh intelligence had been gathered since then ...
Straw criticises US for putting Yusuf Islam on no-fly list
Former pop star met Washington officials in May
Tania Branigan
Friday September 24, 2004
The Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1311786,00.html

From 10-13 November, twenty-five Nobel Peace Laureates and their organizations met in Rome, Italy to consider vital issues of multi-ethnicity, human rights and terrorism under the theme of a divided world or a united world ... The Summit bestowed the ‘Man for Peace 2004’ award on Yusuf Islam ...
Event Report: 5th Summit of Nobel Peace Laureates Takes Place in Rome, Italy
Event Report
Rome, Italy November 12, 2004
http://www.gsinstitute.org/archives/000247.shtml

Former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev honored the singer once known as Cat Stevens with a peace prize on Wednesday, praising him for charity work and for standing by his convictions despite personal hardships. Yusuf Islam was awarded the "Man for Peace" prize in Rome at the opening of a meeting of Nobel Peace Prize laureates. He last made headlines in September, when he turned up on Washington's no-fly list for having suspected ties to terrorists — a claim he has strongly denied ...
Cat Stevens Wins Peace Prize
Singer Now Known As Yusuf Islam Finds Timing Of Honor Ironic
ROME, Nov. 10, 2004
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/11/10/entertainment/main654876.shtml

Yusuf Islam, formerly Cat Stevens, played at the ceremony for the Nobel Peace Prize on December 11 <2006> in Oslo ... Islam performed "Peace Train," "Midday," and "Heaven (Where True Love Goes)" ...
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/video_news/yusuf_islam_has_peace_train_for_peace_prize.html

[Honeycombe8]

169. The article you post clearly states that after the May meeting, they discovered more about...

his gifts to charitable organizations.

There is nothing to suggest that it was for any reason other than his giving to a charity that funds Hamas. Stevens has admitted he gives to that charity and that it funds Hamas. His explanation was that Hamas does some good things.

The U.S. takes the position - and I agree with this one - that giving to a charity that funds/supports a terrorist organization is de facto giving to the terrorist organization. I agree with that because it's my understanding that that is how some terrorist organizations get their money...charitable contributions are siphoned off and given to them under the table.

I was a big fan of Cat Stevens and was sorry to hear he went this way with his life.

[ProudDad]

172. Then I hope you don't give to the United Way

'cause they support the homophobic Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts...

I call Hamas - Freedom Fighters...

[struggle4progress]

184. Yusuf Islam won a libel suit over the anonymous wingnut accusations you parrot:

Singer Islam gets libel damages
Last Updated: Tuesday, 15 February 2005, 21:00 GMT

Yusuf Islam, the singer formerly known as Cat Stevens, has won substantial damages from two UK newspapers which falsely claimed he supported terrorism. The Sun and Sunday Times also published apologies after they made the false allegations in two articles in October. The papers had suggested US authorities had been right to refuse his entry into the country in September ... He said that both newspapers have now acknowledged that he is not, and never has been, involved in or supported terrorism, and that he abhors all such activities ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4268651.stm

Incidently, here's what he said about the deportation:

Suspicion of terrorism was an insult for a peace-loving cat
September 30, 2004

... they weren't under any obligation to give me a reason; the green visa waiver form I had so neatly filled in earlier had effectively denied me any right to appeal or answers ... Consistently I have condemned the attacks of September 11, 2001 saying the slaughter of innocents, the taking of hostages and cold-blooded killing of women and children have nothing do with the teachings of Islam. I have openly and publicly repudiated the actions of groups that resort to such acts of inhumanity whatever their names. Any allegations to the contrary are fabricated. The Koran equates the murder of one innocent person with the murder of all of humanity. Ever since I embraced Islam in 1977, people have regularly tried to link me with things I have nothing to do with. Take the Salman Rushdie case as an example, or the regurgitating of the accusation that I support groups like Hamas. I am a man of peace, and I denounce all forms of terrorism and injustice; it is simply outrageous for anyone to suggest otherwise. The fact that I have sympathy for ordinary people in the world who are suffering from occupation, tyranny, poverty or war is human and has nothing to do with politics or terrorism ...

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/09/29/1096401645895.html

[ProudDad]

171. Yep double-standard...

[Doctor Cynic]

12. Is there any difference from

the Free Speech Zones that Bush set up? After all, you're still free to protest, but not on the tarmac if Bush arrives at the airport. I wish those who support Chavez also have the same reaction if George Bush does the same thing.

If Bush tries to restrict people from protesting in front of him and confines them to free speech zones, that's destroying democracy. If Chavez restricts a critic to a private venue, that's ok. If Bush (hypothetically) tries to force a constitutional amendment to let him run forever, then he's attacking democracy. If Chevez does it, well then at least the people get to vote. If someone makes a movie depicting Bush getting assassinated, that's just free speech you should take. If someone makes a video game where you have to infiltrate the country and overthrow Hugo Chavez, then we should look at banning the game. And so on. Even though Chavez is genuinely popular, that does not justify him to silence critics. Heck, George Bush had 90% approval rates in 2001, so does that justify him to pass laws gutting the rights to privacy and assembly?

[redqueen]

13. Those were started under CLINTON. The threat of rule by corporations is

MUCH closer than most here who seem more intent on demonizing Chavez seem to think.

[struggle4progress]

160. I don't care a tinker's dam whether you like Chavez. But your argument is dishonest.

I live in the United States. My tax dollars pay for W's crimes and the debt incurred for this crimes is a debt I will be paying.

I have some responsibility for the hundreds of thousands of victims of W's Iraqi adventure.

When W kidnaps a head of state to further a coup, as with Aristide in Haiti, it is done in my name and with my dollars. When the FBI tries to frame an American lawyer for the Madrid bombings, as in the case of Brandon Mayfield, it is done in my name and with my dollars. When the CIA kidnaps an innocent Canadian and sends him to Syria for torture, as in the case of Maher Arar, or kidnaps an innocent German and sends him to Afghanistan for torture, as in the case of Khaled al-Masri, it is done in my name and with my dollars. When the US government pays bounties in the Middle East to obtain hundreds of people it then sends to Guantanamo Bay, in the hopes that they are there invisibly beyond the reach of any law, it is done in my name and with my dollars.

I do not imagine Chavez beyond reproach. But whatever problems Venezuela has pale beside the damage my own country is doing in the world today. And any problems in Venezuela pale beside the routine political murder that has been the norm in neighboring Colombia for decades now.

You want me to get excited because a performer still scheduled in Venezuela must find a new venue for his concert? Give me a frickin break: despite all the rightwing noise surrounding the case, it may not even be entirely clear why the original venue was denied (see my post #157

You want me to get excited because the Venezuelan government denied a license renewal to a TV station that had supported a coup attempt while the attempt was in progress? Give me another frickin break: if a TV station in the United States supported the violent overthrow of the government, license renewal would be the least of their legal woes.

And you want to chastise me for not getting upset about Chavez the way I got upset about the apartheid state that once existed in South Africa? Then you do not know anything at all about the conditions that prevailed in South Africa twenty years ago:

http://uruknet.info.nyud.net:8090/uruknet-images/baha-apartheid-signage.jpg
http://pattricejones.info.nyud.net:8090/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/uprising017.jpg

[ProudDad]

173. How do you get from one spanish pop singer

who told the President of Venezuela in a rather insulting manner that he should resign because a few wing-nuts signed a recall petition (that failed)...being denied a platform owned by the People of Venezuela...

But he would be allowed into the country to play any private venue that would hire him...(unlike ANY Cuban act into the U.S.)

to "pass laws gutting the rights to privacy and assembly?"

Talk about fucking hyperbole...

[Judi Lynn]

15. For the education of those who've been looking the other way, here's a partial list

of situations which have occured from 1968 to 2000 in Miami to people who didn't please the Cuban "exile" right-wing power structure running the town. Many of them concern threats to entertainers:

April 1976: Severely injured WQBA news
director Emilio Milian is assisted
after a car bomb exploded beneath him

1968 From MacArthur Causeway, pediatrician Orlando Bosch fires bazooka at a Polish freighter. (City of Miami later declares "Orlando Bosch Day." Federal agents will jail him in 1988.)

1972 Julio Iglesias, performing at a local nightclub, says he wouldn't mind "singing in front of Cubans." Audience erupts in anger. Singer requires police escort. Most radio stations drop Iglesias from playlists. One that doesn't, Radio Alegre, receives bomb threats.

1974 Exile leader José Elias de la Torriente murdered in his Coral Gables home after failing to carry out a planned invasion of Cuba.

1974 Bomb blast guts the office of Spanish-language magazine Replica.

1974 Several small Cuban businesses, citing threats, stop selling Replica.

1974 Three bombs explode near a Spanish-language radio station.

1974 Hector Diaz Limonta and Arturo Rodriguez Vives murdered in internecine exile power struggles.

1975 Luciano Nieves murdered after advocating peaceful coexistence with Cuba.

1975 Another bomb damages Replica's office.

1976 Rolando Masferrer and Ramon Donestevez murdered in internecine exile power struggles.

1976 Car bomb blows off legs of WQBA-AM news director Emilio Milian after he publicly condemns exile violence.

1977 Juan José Peruyero murdered in internecine exile power struggles.

1979 Cuban film Memories of Underdevelopment interrupted by gunfire and physical violence instigated by two exile groups.

1979 Bomb discovered at Padron Cigars, whose owner helped negotiate release of 3600 Cuban political prisoners.

1979 Bomb explodes at Padron Cigars.

1980 Another bomb explodes at Padron Cigars.

1980 Powerful anti-personnel bomb discovered at American Airways Charter, which arranges flights to Cuba.

1981 Bomb explodes at Mexican Consulate on Brickell Avenue in protest of relations with Cuba.

1981 Replica's office again damaged by a bomb.

1982 Two outlets of Hispania Interamericana, which ships medicine to Cuba, attacked by gunfire.

1982 Bomb explodes at Venezuelan Consulate in downtown Miami in protest of relations with Cuba.

1982 Bomb discovered at Nicaraguan Consulate.

1982 Miami Mayor Maurice Ferre defends $10,000 grant to exile commando group Alpha 66 by noting that the organization "has never been accused of terrorist activities inside the United States."

1983 Another bomb discovered at Replica.

1983 Another bomb explodes at Padron Cigars.

1983 Bomb explodes at Paradise International, which arranges travel to Cuba.

1983 Bomb explodes at Little Havana office of Continental National Bank, one of whose executives, Bernardo Benes, helped negotiate release of 3600 Cuban political prisoners.

1983 Miami City Commissioner Demetrio Perez seeks to honor exile terrorist Juan Felipe de la Cruz, accidentally killed while assembling a bomb. (Perez is now a member of the Miami-Dade County Public School Board and owner of the Lincoln-Martí private school where Elian Gonzalez is enrolled.)

1983 Gunfire shatters windows of three Little Havana businesses linked to Cuba.

1986 South Florida Peace Coalition members physically attacked in downtown Miami while demonstrating against Nicaraguan contra war.

1987 Bomb explodes at Cuba Envios, which ships packages to Cuba.

1987 Bomb explodes at Almacen El Español, which ships packages to Cuba.

1987 Bomb explodes at Cubanacan, which ships packages to Cuba.

1987 Car belonging to Bay of Pigs veteran is firebombed.

1987 Bomb explodes at Machi Viajes a Cuba, which arranges travel to Cuba.

1987 Bomb explodes outside Va Cuba, which ships packages to Cuba.

1988 Bomb explodes at Miami Cuba, which ships medical supplies to Cuba.

1988 Bomb threat against Iberia Airlines in protest of Spain's relations with Cuba.

1988 Bomb explodes outside Cuban Museum of Art and Culture after auction of paintings by Cuban artists.

1988 Bomb explodes outside home of Maria Cristina Herrera, organizer of a conference on U.S.-Cuba relations.

1988 Bomb threat against WQBA-AM after commentator denounces Herrera bombing.

1988 Bomb threat at local office of Immigration and Naturalization Service in protest of terrorist Orlando Bosch being jailed.

1988 Bomb explodes near home of Griselda Hidalgo, advocate of unrestricted travel to Cuba.

1988 Bomb damages Bele Cuba Express, which ships packages to Cuba.

1989 Another bomb discovered at Almacen El Español, which ships packages to Cuba.

1989 Two bombs explode at Marazul Charters, which arranges travel to Cuba.

1990 Another, more powerful, bomb explodes outside the Cuban Museum of Art and Culture.

1991 Using crowbars and hammers, exile crowd rips out and urinates on Calle Ocho "Walk of Fame" star of Mexican actress Veronica Castro, who had visited Cuba.

1992 Union Radio employee beaten and station vandalized by exiles looking for Francisco Aruca, who advocates an end to U.S. embargo.

1992 Cuban American National Foundation mounts campaign against the Miami Herald, whose executives then receive death threats and whose newsracks are defaced and smeared with feces.

1992 Americas Watch releases report stating that hard-line Miami exiles have created an environment in which "moderation can be a dangerous position."

1993 Inflamed by Radio Mambí commentator Armando Perez-Roura, Cuban exiles physically assault demonstrators lawfully protesting against U.S. embargo. Two police officers injured, sixteen arrests made. Miami City Commissioner Miriam Alonso then seeks to silence anti-embargo demonstrators: "We have to look at the legalities of whether the City of Miami can prevent them from expressing themselves."

1994 Human Rights Watch/Americas Group issues report stating that Miami exiles do not tolerate dissident opinions, that Spanish-language radio promotes aggression, and that local government leaders refuse to denounce acts of intimidation.

1994 Two firebombs explode at Replica magazine's office.

1994 Bomb threat to law office of Magda Montiel Davis following her videotaped exchange with Fidel Castro.

1996 Music promoter receives threatening calls, cancels local appearance of Cuba's La Orquesta Aragon.

1996 Patrons attending concert by Cuban jazz pianist Gonzalo Rubalcaba physically assaulted by 200 exile protesters. Transportation for exiles arranged by Dade County Commissioner Javier Souto.

1996 Firebomb explodes at Little Havana's Centro Vasco restaurant preceding concert by Cuban singer Rosita Fornes.

1996 Firebomb explodes at Marazul Charters, which arranges travel to Cuba.

1996 Arson committed at Tu Familia Shipping, which ships packages to Cuba.

1997 Bomb threats, death threats received by radio station WRTO-FM following its short-lived decision to include in its playlist songs by Cuban musicians.

1998 Bomb threat empties concert hall at MIDEM music conference during performance by 91-year-old Cuban musician Compay Segundo.

1998 Bomb threat received by Amnesia nightclub in Miami Beach preceding performance by Cuban musician Orlando "Maraca" Valle.

1998 Firebomb explodes at Amnesia nightclub preceding performance by Cuban singer Manolín.

1999 Violent protest at Miami Arena performance of Cuban band Los Van Van leaves one person injured, eleven arrested.

1999 Bomb threat received by Seville Hotel in Miami Beach preceding performance by Cuban singer Rosita Fornes. Hotel cancels concert.

January 26, 2000 Outside Miami Beach home of Sister Jeanne O'Laughlin, protester displays sign reading, "Stop the deaths at sea. Repeal the Cuban Adjustment Act," then is physically assaulted by nearby exile crowd before police come to rescue.

April 11, 2000 Outside home of Elian Gonzalez's Miami relatives, radio talk show host Scot Piasant of Portland, Oregon, displays T-shirt reading, "Send the boy home" and "A father's rights," then is physically assaulted by nearby exile crowd before police come to rescue.
(snip/...)

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2000-04-20/news/mullin/full

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

For anyone who's interested, this woman mentioned in the link above, "Miami City Commissioner Miriam Alonso then seeks to silence anti-embargo demonstrators: "We have to look at the legalities of whether the City of Miami can prevent them from expressing themselves." " was arrested after it was learned she had embezzled huge amounts of money, had given some of it to her daughter for a down payment on her house, had bought a houseload of furniture for herself, had used her own government assistants as servants, etc., and was thrown out of government for corruption and a ton of nasty deeds. Typical.

She used to insist people ALWAYS refer to her as "Commissioner Alonso." (She is a prominant Miami-Dade Republican, of course.)

[Gravel2008]

41. How nice of you to "educate" us, as usual!

You had a point with what you just posted? It would seem to me you're a member of the "two wrongs make a right"-club. I take it you view this kind of behavior as acceptable, then. Good luck with that, and dictator-hugging in general.

[1932]

47. This Spanish guy is allowed into Venezuela. He just can't use a state-owned stadium.

He's going to have to play in a privately-owned stadium.

IIUC.

[Odin2005]

17. I see the Chavez apologists are squirming.

Chavez is becoming more and more authoritarian and illiberal, that is a god-damned fact. And before people start calling be a corporatist shill I think people need to be reminded that just because his left-wing, anti-corporatist economic policies are good that does not excuse his authoritarianism.

[redqueen]

18. Who's squirming?

:shrug:

No excuses necessary... if the people there don't like it, they have *observed* elections wherein they can remove him.



As for this country, I wonder why more people haven't noticed how the framing is used against Chavez. There is a reason that this guy is demonized for doing the sorts of things that nearly every other country does.

I wouldn't call you a corporatist... but I would say that maybe you should consider what's at stake in the war of ideas that's being carried out here.

This guy is the strongest leader currently fighting against the global power grab by multinational corporations. Do you agree or disagree with that statement?

[Odin2005]

35. Just because he's a strong leader against corporatists doesn't mean he's NOT an Authoritarian.

Populist leaders have a tendency to become corrupted by power in countries where a tradition of liberal democracy is not strong, look at Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe.

[ProudDad]

174. More hyperbole from the capitalist wing...

Why are you squirming about a Socialist in the South, eh bunky?

"Mugabe = Chavez" --- pretty fucking big stretch ... untrue and meaningless.

[movonne]

20. More like your squirming...when our country does very much the same

thing...read some of the messages above you...

[olddad56]

25. Dixie Chicks ring a bell?

[ohio2007]

55. Those girls still at Gitmo ?

You won't find that kind of speech from a citizen of Hugo's country.
He has decreed that he is not to be removed from high standing.

/sarc

[Dave From Canada]

121. Exactly. The Dixie Chicks aren't victims, they're millionaires.

[killbotfactory]

156. 1. Venezuela doesn't have their own "Gitmo". That's our bastard child.

2. Venezuela has internationally monitored elections. We don't.
3. The Venezuelan constitution allows the president to be recalled half-way through his term. Ours doesn't.

[Honeycombe8]

163. Venez. doesn't need Gitmo...its regular prisons are none too safe. nt

[ProudDad]

175. Anybody locked up in Venezuela

for singing songs against Chavez???

Prove this bullshit statement or STFU; "You won't find that kind of speech from a citizen of Hugo's country"

THEY HAVE 4 FUCKING TV NETWORKS DOING JUST THAT, dumb ass...

[UTUSN]

19. This story just CAN'T be true, not in the democracy that elected HUGO!!1 Never!!1 n/t

[redqueen]

21. Why not? If the voters vote for a guy with an authoritarian streak...

then they must like it.

At least in Venezuela, they get to decide for themselves if they want a "freedom-loving"* corporatist leader or an authoritarian anti-corporatist one. :evilgrin:




*As for our so-called "freedom", I would refer you to a famous quote by Frank Zappa.

[ohio2007]

58. thats the one vote,one party rule they excersize down there

everyone is invited to join the official party of Venezuela.
It's not the democratic party but as long as everybody votes the party line, nobody gets "looked at funny"
they made the right choice

[UTUSN]

127. Oh, I totally respect sovereignty of whomever, but I don't have to like it OR agree with his

supporters HERE at DU.

[Flanker]

128. But do still have to sound like a broken record?

More logic less emotion me thinks.

[UTUSN]

132. Like the broken record of Hugo-news, another (same) story every day?

Every day another drip of his "authoritarian" gunk. And the broken record of the diehard Hugoists?

I'd never seen your handle before, wasn't aware you were following my oeuvre, much less that I was under some imperative to PLEASE YOU. Feel free to Ignore me!!1 It'll make us *both* happy!!1

[Flanker]

158. Neocons would never be able to please me

So no worries, just annoyed that is all.

[ProudDad]

176. Done!

You're just fucking tiring...

Not worth reading any more...

Bye, bye...

[leaninglib]

22. The round mound from Caracas town has very thin skin.

But that is a typical personality trait for an egotistical fascist.

[puffymuffins]

23. Good job Fat Boy!

You remind me more of der chimperer todo el dia! Poco a poco, no?

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rage for Order]

27. So you're okay with this quote then?

(Higher Education Minister Luis) Acuna over the weekend said that from now on, the government will ensure concerts held at the state stadium do not promote "anti-educational values."


What exactly are "anti-educational values"?

[ohio2007]

59. if you have to ask just what "anti-educational values" are then

you need an appointment with the minister of truth

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Andrushka]

28. Fishy

"The comments which sparked the controversy were made by the singer during his last tour of Venezuela in 2004, when he said he did not like Mr Chavez."

Surely there is more to it than that. What shoddy reporting, but totally expected.

If it actually was a "No sir, I do not like Chavez" and that's it, I would be one saying that the banning of him from the stadium is somewhat extreme. But I doubt that is the end of the story.

[Rage for Order]

29. I've read a few sources on it

They all say essentially the same thing. This appears to be the quote that caused the trouble:

Responding to questions about Chavez before a 2004 referendum on the president's rule, Sanz said: "I don't like your president. I don't like those from other places either."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071012/ap_en_mu/people_alejandro_sanz_1

[Andrushka]

31. Thanks

But I am still curious as to why that would be considered as "railing"...

[subsuelo]

30. I'm a Chavez supporter but I don't like this

I don't understand this move either. He knows the western corporate controlled media is out to get him. Why feed them this juicy morsel? Just let the singer come do their concert and let it be. Come on, Hugo you're better than that!

I still say Viva Chavez, but this I disagree with very much.

[Odin2005]

36. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Most 3rd World countries don't a have a strong tradition of Liberal Democracy that checks the tendency of power to eventually corrupt even well-meaning leaders.

[subsuelo]

39. and what country does?

[Flanker]

44. The country rejects neoliberalism

Quite strongly, liberalism is for Pinochet and Chicago Boy's worshipers.

That said Sanz did much more than just insult Chavez, he attacked the whole regional left and is an Aznar worshiper.

[sufrommich]

46. Pinochet was a liberal?

On what planet?

[AngryAmish]

99. There are many definitions of liberal

In modern American usage, liberal means left of center Democratic-y politics.

In European usage liberal is right of center.

Milton Friedman and the (U of) Chicago school of economics generally call themselves liberals which mean libertarian.

Does any of this make sense? No. But it is entirely accurate that Pinochet called himself a liberal while embracing politics in modern American usage we would consider oligarchical or fascistic.

[ProudDad]

177. Yup, Pinochet was the worst kind of "liberal"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_liberalism

Just as bush is a "liberal"...

[cali]

62. Links please. That's not what I've read

not even close. Your argument would be stronger with a wee bit of evidence.

[Flanker]

73. Supporters and opponents of the Pinochet plebscite

Support: Alianza por Chile: Unión Demócrata Independiente y Renovación Nacional y por otros partidos como el Partido Nacional por el Sí, Partido Liberal por el Sí, Democracia Radical

Oppose: (Democracia Cristiana, MAPU, MAPU-OC, PADENA, Partido Humanista, Izquierda Cristiana, Unión Liberal Republicana, Los Verdes, Partido Nacional por el No, Partido Radical, Radical Socialista Democrático de Luengo, Socialdemocracia, Socialista-Almeyda, Socialista-Núñez, Socialista Histórico, Socialista Mandujano, USOPO y Partido por la Democracia

Sorry true liberalism is what Friedman and Pinochet represent, no thanks.

[cali]

79. LOL. Look up non-responsive in the dictionary. n/t

[Flanker]

80. So now the support of the liberal party is unconclusive?

Pinochet was a liberal, praised by liberals like Friedman, adopted liberal policies of the Chicago Boys.

Neo-liberalism came about since liberalism failed in the region. Of course neo-liberalism is failing with the possible exception of Chile itself.

[cali]

83. for the love of all that's logical

try answering the question I posed and not veering off into neo-liberalism.

[Flanker]

86. Lets see.

Me: Pinochet worshipers

You: provide a link

Me: Liberal party of Chile

You: ilogical

Me: huh?

[sufrommich]

93. You interchanged "neoliberal" and "liberal"

in your post. Do you consider one the same as the other? The "liberal" party in Chile was a rightist party,despite their name.I'm sure most political barometers would label Allende a liberal - Pinochet a bloody right wing dictator.

[Flanker]

97. Neo liberal is new liberalism

What about Friedman? he no longer a liberal either?

Allende was a socialist, and Pinochet a bloody right wing liberal dictator.

[cali]

103. There's always been a difference between

economic liberalism a la Friedman, and social liberalism which generally does NOT support economic liberalism.

[Flanker]

109. Ok so now liberalism does not support itself?

I recommend you "liberals" chose another word that is not self-contradicting. I personally abandoned it long ago.

[ohio2007]

122. neo progressive moves to support the economy of the neo revolution

Venezuelans to pay price of president's moral crusade
President Hugo Chávez has announced sharp tax increases on tobacco and alcoholic beverages, amid a raft of other measures aimed at curbing luxury imports and instilling
the new morality of his ``21st Century Socialism.''
Some analysts say the tax increases have less to do with morals or public-health issues than with the government's sudden realization that it faces a substantial shortfall in income as a result of recent measures intended to curb the highest inflation rate in the region.

''We're one of the countries that consumes the most whiskey per capita in the world. We ought to be ashamed,'' Chávez said in berating his audience on his Hello President television and radio show. ``I'm not willing to keep offering dollars to import whiskey in these quantities. What kind of revolution is this? The whiskey revolution? The Hummer revolution? No!
This is a real revolution!''
snip
http://www.mercopress.com/vernoticia.do?id=11585&formato=HTML

The neo revolution ?
A tariff on Jack Daniels the locals have to pay.

Seems the US had a whiskey rebellion in the late 1790's over such taxing issues as these.
If the locals start making their own moonshine....will it be taxed or will it be a commodity used to barter in an inflationary economy

[Flanker]

125. I seriously doubt you or the rightwing mercopress

Knows what they are talking about, the government has plenty of money.

[ohio2007]

161. Have you checked the inflation rates ?

or do your sources of news ignore those figures and call them a right wing conspirecy ?

[Flanker]

164. Here is another clue, tax collection is a percentage

100% inflation? 100% increase in tax collection.

Again it is economic illiteracy based on rightwing opinion.

[Karenina]

38. Kenny G's "success" was funded

with Starbuck's money. Ebony magazine carried an ad proclaiming him as the "greatest" saxophonist. Cultural rather than political. Just thinking out loud.

[ohio2007]

60. Chavez wants to see which "people" attend "private" shows with such a

rebel artist troublemaker.
hey
I wouldn't buy a ticket and go to a "private show" that could come back to haunt you in three years cuz
they'll be watching the show and recording it also ;)

[cali]

61. It's always heartening to see people who don't have a double

standard and are willing to criticize people they don't agree with. On one thread about this, I actually saw someone defend this by saying that they don't have to provide a venue for people to "insult" Chavez.

I support a lot of what Chavez has done. I don't support this and I don't support imposing rigid educational "Bolivarian" guidelines on both public and private schools.

[Pavulon]

37. And the water warms for the froggies

time to hop out..

[puffymuffins]

43. I'd say it's about 219 degrees.

A couple more dictatorial stunts by Fat Boy, and the water should come to a boil.

[Maribelle]

48. Come to a boil? Boiling water is mild compared to the violence the opposition wants.

They want death of innocents in the streets, culminating with the assassination of Chavez. Nothing less.

[Solar_Power]

40. I hate cencorship

Live free or die

[fasttense]

42. When Chavez starts justifying torture like the US does. wake me up.

When Venezuela attacks a country to prevent that country from attacking it, finds out that country was never going to attack, and then continues occupying it. Wake me up. When the Venezuelan government starts subsidizing huge corporations and giving tax cuts to the uber wealthy, wake me up. When Venezuela starts selling off highways, infrastructure and military functions to friends of the President, wake me up. When Venezuela starts prosecuting liberals and ignoring the crimes of the ruling party, wake me up.

Until the US starts acting like it has morales and values, Venezuela sounds like a dream.

[alarimer]

49. Just another tin-pot third world dictator

I am sick of Chavez apologists.

[1932]

52. A tin pot dictator would throw the singer who advocates DEMOCRACY (not fascism) INTO the state-owned

stadium and cut off his hands.

There's a big difference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Jara

[ohio2007]

57. but the benevolent one's banish them from their kingdoms

when they don't sing the right tunes or speak out on issues they know nothig about.
;)

[1932]

68. He's not banished. He can sing in private venues. They're not even denying a visa.

He simply cannot perform in the stadium at the public university.

[ohio2007]

113. Maybe they will put him live on the radio

maybe the university radio station ?

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=421013

nope, no private radio stations there anymore

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2860970&mesg_id=2861040

[Flanker]

114. What are you talking about?

http://fmuc.umce.uc.edu.ve/

[ohio2007]

119. I'm talking about what the S American journalists think and write

http://www.mercopress.com/home.do?pais=Venezuela

about your high horse hero;

http://www.mercopress.com/vernoticia.do?id=11585&formato=HTML


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2930021&mesg_id=2932348

He still has 14 months to rule by decree,then he will step aside for the sake of progressive socialism,
right?

[Judi Lynn]

120. Apparently it's not going to attract any attention when Bush's ally Colombian right-winger Uribe

goes for a third term. According to their logic, it's the only reasonable thing to do.

Oct. 11, 2007, 1:50AM
Backers of Colombia's Uribe promote unprecedented third term

By JOSHUA GOODMAN
Associated Press

BOGOTA, Colombia — Close supporters of President Alvaro Uribe in congress announced Wednesday that they would seek a constitutional amendment to allow the Colombian president to seek a third term in office.

The pro-government "U" party, the largest bloc in Congress, said later this month they would begin collecting the 1.3 million signatures needed to force a referendum on allowing the popular conservative leader to run for a third consecutive term.

If a referendum is held and voters approve the amendment, it would still need to be approved by congress and then be greenlighted by the constitutional court.

"No army switches generals when it's winning the battle," said Luis Guillermo Giraldo, secretary general of the "U" party, which approved the proposal Wednesday at a party congress.
(snip/...)

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/world/5204998.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
All Colombia has to show for becoming a black hole for U.S. taxpayers' hard earned money, the THIRD largest in the world, is a hell of a lot of dead citizens, and a vast number of displaced people trying to get out of the way by hiding in Venezuela and Ecuador.

But that's all right, since they're right-wingers, and hard at work knocking off suspected leftists, even when it means slaughtering entire villages, and even dressing the dead guys up as rebels to make it appear they were killed because they were "enemies."

I just don't hear the venom from the right-wing blowhards about what's going on in Colombia, which is a living hell.

[ohio2007]

124. Hugo...we are not talking about Bush,Columbia or Che

SO,
this is your justification for Hugo's unpresedented presidente for life arguement?

'Dear leader" must counter balance ( current US president "X" ) policy in the western hemisphere ?

Hugo is a Mugabe with an oil spout.

[ProudDad]

181. And you're a corporate tool with a keyboard

and Chavez proposed an amendment that still has to be voted on to remove term limits -- just like in nearly EVERY CIVILIZED COUNTRY ON EARTH...

The U.S. is anomalous in it's limit on presidential terms.


Here it's a good thing to 'cause is USAmerika they're all fucked up paid agents of the corporate capitalist masters -- busy fucking up the world.

[Flanker]

126. You said there was no private or university media

Will you back down from such idiocy?

[ProudDad]

178. That's funny, here's a whole page of Private Venezuela

radio stations at this site.

http://www.camradio.org/


Get a clue, eh??? You can't post bullshit -- it'll get checked...

[cali]

64. What about incrementalism?

A lot of folks on DU use that argument about the U.S. and it's certainly not without merit.

[1932]

67. He was first elected 8 years ago. Although he's new to a lot of DU'ers, he's been

around for a long time and it's pretty clear which direction his government is moving.

[cali]

75. Thanks for avoiding my question. n/t

[1932]

91. Thanks for the tone of "voice".

[1932]

50. Here's the analogy: it's 1932 and a fascist german singer is on tour of the US. He critcizes FDR.

FDR says that he cannot play in any state-run venue in DC. He can play in a privately-operated venue & they're not going deny him the visa. They're just not going to give him state resources to advocate against the government.

[ohio2007]

54. Even the German champion boxer was allowed in Madison Square Garden

a public arena in the late '30's despite the Nazi governments stand on 'issues' at home. Max was allowed to duke it out with an inferior opponent ;)

we all know how that turned out

[1932]

69. Maybe if they could bring Victor Jara back from the dead and have a sing-off...

...they could do it at a public university.

[Judi Lynn]

87. Yep, it was a Nixon-annointed puppet dictator, Pinochet, who had him tortured and murdered.

Artistic life
Jara was deeply influenced by the folklore of Chile and other Latin American countries; he was particularly influenced by artists like Violeta Parra, Atahualpa Yupanqui, and the poet Pablo Neruda. Jara began his foray into folklore in the mid-1950s when he began singing with the group Cuncumen. He moved more decisively into music in the 1960s getting the opportunity to sing at Santiago's La Pena de Los Parra, owned by Angel Parra. Through them Jara became greatly involved in the Nueva Cancion movement of Latin American folk music. He published his first recording in 1966 and, by 1970, had left his theater work in favor of a career in music. His songs were drawn from a combination of traditional folk music and left-wing political activism. From this period, some of his most renowned songs are Plegaria a un Labrador ("A Farmer's Prayer") and Te Recuerdo Amanda ("I Remember You Amanda"). He supported the Unidad Popular ("Popular Unity") coalition candidate Salvador Allende for the presidency of Chile, taking part in campaigning, volunteer political work, and playing free concerts.

Political activism
Allende's campaign was successful and, in 1970, he was elected president of Chile. However, the US-supported Chilean military, who opposed Allende's politics, staged a coup on September 11, 1973, in the course of which Allende died (See Allende's death). At the moment of the coup, Jara was on the way to the Technical University (today Universidad de Santiago), where he was a teacher. That night he slept at the university along with other teachers and students, and sang to raise morale.

His death
On the morning of September 12, Jara was taken, along with thousands others, as a prisoner to the Chile Stadium (renamed the Estadio Victor Jara in September 2003). In the hours and days that followed, many of those detained in the stadium were tortured and killed there by the military forces. Jara was repeatedly beaten and tortured; the bones in his hands were broken as were his ribs. Reports that one of Jara's hands, or both of his hands, had been cut off, are however erroneous. Fellow political prisoners have testified that his captors mockingly suggested that he play guitar for them as he lay on the ground. Defiantly, he sang part of a song supporting the Popular Unity coalition. After further beatings, he was machine-gunned on September 15 and his body dumped on a road on the outskirts of Santiago, and then taken to a city morgue.

Jara's wife, Joan, was allowed to come and retrieve his body from the site and was able to confirm the physical damage he had endured. After holding a funeral for her husband, Joan Jara fled the country in secret.

Joan Turner Jara currently lives in Chile and runs the Victor Jara Foundation. The Chile Stadium, also known as the Victor Jara Stadium, is often confused with the Estadio Nacional (National Stadium).

Before his death, Victor Jara wrote a poem about the conditions of the prisoners in the stadium, the poem was written on a paper that was hidden inside a shoe of a friend. The poem was never named, but is commonly known as Estadio Chile.
(snip/...)

http://www.mundoandino.com/Chile/Victor-Jara



Victor Jara's murderer, a former S.O.A. graduate:

The photo in the blue shirt shows him the day
a group, with Jara's teenage daughter, Amanda,
for whom he wrote a beloved song, showed up to
confront him about murdering Victor Jara.
Personal info. on Dimter from S.O.A. Watch:

In recent months, and after various testimonies from ex-prisoners, Victor Jara?s alleged killer was identified as Edwin Dimter Bianchi. A Chilean military officer with a bad reputation (he was also known as ?El Loco Dimter?) who in 1970 attended the School of the Americas (SOA), then located in Panama, and completed a one month course in ?Combat Arms Orientation?. Shortly after his stint at the SOA, Dimter participated in the failed coup attempt against Salvador Allende in June of 1973 known as the ?Tanquetazo? led by a rouge military brigade. Dimter and his fellow conspirators were arrested and then set free shortly after the successful coup of September 11, 1973. Upon his release, he was assigned to serve in the Estadio Chile.

Survivors of the detention center have testified that on his arrival at the stadium he was full of spite and vengeful due to his recent imprisonment under the Unidad Popular and quickly gained a reputation as a sadist. Due to his good looks and arrogant swagger he received the nickname ?The Prince?. An ex-prisoner, Chilean attorney Boris Navia, described ?the Prince?s? modus operandi: ?He would make rounds through the different levels of the Stadium screaming insults and intimidating prisoners. He would show up unexpectedly in a section of the Stadium and the prisoners had to remain silent in his presence. He behaved like a frustrated stage actor. He always carried a leather club and when he walked through the rows of prisoners who were waiting to be brought into the stadium and had been on their knees for hours and hours with their hands on their heads he would hit and insult them?. In another episode described by ex prisoners, ?The Prince?, ordered another soldier to kill a prisoner by beating him with his rifle after he tripped and stumbled over his legs. According to testimonies such as these, Dimter was directly involved in the beating and death of Victor Jara.
(snip)

http://soaw.org/article.php?id=205

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Saturday, September 5, 1998 Published at 23:40 GMT 00:40 UK


World: Americas

'They couldn't kill his songs'

The widow and friends of the Chilean folk singer Victor Jara mark the 25th anniversary of his murder with a series of events including a concert at London's Royal Festival Hall and the release of the first CD with his songs.

Victor Jara was 38 when he died.

In the 1960s he wrote songs of protest against the ruling elite of his country.

He was one of the founding fathers of Chile's 'New Song' movement which in 1970 helped elect the democratic popular unity government of Salvador Allente. As a result Chile's right wing hated him.

Four days of torture

On 11 September 1973 Victor Jara had been due to sing in the Santiago University.

Instead, with the coup of General Augusto Pinochet, underway, he was arrested and led to Santiago's boxing stadium.

Over four days he was tortured, beaten, electrocuted, his hands and wrists broken, before finally being machine-gunned to death, at the age of 38.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/165363.stm

Here's a video of his singing the song he named for his daughter: Te Recuerdo, Amanda
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4094363298509241474&q=Victor+Jara&total=911&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

Here's the song, translated to English from the original:

I remember you Amanda
when the streets were wet,
running to the factory
where Manuel was working.
With your wide smile
and the rain in your hair,
nothing else mattered:
you were going to meet him.


Five minutes only,
all of your life
in five minutes.
The siren is sounding.
Time to go back to work.
And, as you walk,
you light up everything.
Those five minutes
have made you flower.
I remember you Amanda
when the streets were wet,
running to the factory
where Manuel was working.
With your wide smile
and the rain in your hair,
nothing else mattered:
you were going to meet him.


And he took to the mountains to fight.
He had never hurt a fly
but he took to the mountains
and in five minutes
it was all wiped out.
The siren is sounding.
Time to go back to work.
Many will not go back.
One of them is Manuel.
I remember you Amanda
when the streets were wet,
running to the factory
where Manuel was working.

http://www.bpmonline.org.uk/bpm8/Elliott.html



Victor Jara
More images:
http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-37,GGLD:en&q=Victor+Jara

[Judi Lynn]

117. Adding Victor Jara one minute song, "El Derecho de Vivir en Paz," (the right to live in peace)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3554017631208719773&q=Victor+Jara+%2B+%22El+Derecho+de+Vivir+en+Paz%22&total=14&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

Adding the MP3:
http://blogfiles.wfmu.org/LG/Chile/Victor_Jara_-_El_Derecho.mp3

[cali]

65. That's just fucking ludicrous.

It's my understanding that Sanz isn't remotely a fascist supporter, and his criticism of Chavez was quite mild from everything I read in my search. So put up or .... Provide links. And btw in 1932 plenty of pro-fascist Germans came to the U.S.

[1932]

70. What did you find in your search?

[cali]

72. The worst I found was this:

Sanz, who is widely popular in Latin America, in 2004 accused Chavez of trying to stymie a nationwide campaign for a recall referendum against him and jokingly said if as many people demanded he quit singing, he would do so.

http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=entertainmentNews&storyID=2007-10-10T224844Z_01_N10277233_RTRIDST_0_ENTERTAINMENT-VENEZUELA-CONCERT-SANZ-COL.XML&archived=False


Ooh, isn't that terrible? Sanz tossed out a childish barb. Wow. That's super dangerous to Chavez and the gov't. They should have gone further.

I just love selective endorsement of free speech.

[1932]

82. I found this:

"I don't like your president", when asked about Chavez during a tour before the 2004 referendum.`

Also, couldn't find anything that said Chavez was involved with this decision so I amend my analogy to read that this would have been a decision by the Secretary of Education in '32.

http://www.cbc.ca/arts/music/story/2007/10/12/chavez-sanz-concert.html

[cali]

84. Please, please tell me

that you don't think that comment is reason enough to ban him from playing at the Stadium at the college?

I've heard musicians say FAR stronger things about bushco in large government owned venues- like sports stadiums.

Hell, last year at Wolf Trap, Garrison Keillor ripped bushco to pieces on Gov't owned property on a station partially funded by the gov't.

[Flanker]

88. He said Chavez was a murderer...

How can you possibly state this is mild? In comparison the DC just said they were not proud Bush was from Texas.

[cali]

95. What happened to the DC was Wrong.

But it was NOT done by the government. It was private business that took them off playlists.

And as I said, tons of artists regularly call bush all kinds of things, from racist to murderer on TV and in concert.

[Flanker]

107. Your apologism simply because it was private industry

Shows really that you might belong on the other side. Republicans are the ones with the tools to make private boycotts as painful as Chavez boycotting the poliedro.

[sufrommich]

96. Where is the "murderer" quote?

I've looked up and down this thread.What an I missing?

[1932]

101. Here it is:

http://www.larepublica.es/spip.php?article2812

Curious: does this change your opinion?

[sufrommich]

105. Is there an english translation?

I have no idea what that says.

[sufrommich]

112. Do he call for Chavez' murder or did he Chavez a murderer?

Does this change your opinion of free speech in Venezuela?
"It comes a few months after Mr Chavez warned foreigners they faced expulsion if they came to Venezuela to criticise him or his political agenda. "

If you needs links, there's plenty in a google search from across the media political spectrum.

[1932]

89. Let's see what Chavez does about this...

...I'm curious.

But I do understand the outrage among Venezuelans. This government has been the object about lies and even a coup sponsored by people who have no interest in Venezuelan democracy and I can understand them being pissed of about the idea of a public university being the venue for more of that bullshit. (And they're not denying him a visa or preventing the guy from performing.)

I really do think if the US had as much at stake and some idiot came to the US and did that, a lot of Americans would be pissed off. (We actually do have as much at stake -- democracy -- but our system is so fucked up we can't even get a goverment that is interested in democracy or helping people or fighting the concentrated power of capital).

Put your feet in the shoes of Venezuelans, as the Education Minister asks in the CBC article. How do you think you'd feel if you were a Venezuelan?

[cali]

100. I sympathize with them, but I don't agree.

I'm a big supporter of free speech. Now, I realize that Venezuela doesn't have a first amendment, but I even support Nazi's marching in Skokie and anyone who wants to come here and call George bush a mass murderer. Hell, regarding bush, I'm in agreement, but even if some wingnut artist wanted to come to Vermont and slam Bernie Sanders and Pat Leahy as murderers, I wouldn't have a problem with that. Disgusted? Sure. But not to the point of wanting them banned from the Fairgrounds or Battery Park, or wherever they'd theoretically be billed. I understand the history is different, but Sanz hardly poses any threat to Chavez or the gov't.

[1932]

Advocating the assassination of the president isn't protected speech in the US.

http://www.larepublica.es/spip.php?article2812

[cali]

104. It's my understanding he called him a murderer, not

that he advocated his murder.

[1932]

110. I just caught that.

[Flanker]

111. That would be accurate

nm

[puffymuffins]

130. Who is Venezuela's Education Minister? n/t

[Flanker]

77. Do more research

Sanz supports Aznar, and has stated that he dislikes the LEFT, not just Chavez THE LEFT.

[cali]

81. You made the claim. YOU need to provide

evidence. Until you do, it's just unsupported bulshit, posted by an anonymous person on the internet. Sorry, your word, hardly cuts it.

Btw, so what?? So what if he does support Aznar? So what if he criticizes the left?

You clearly believe only in free speech that agrees with YOUR viewpoint. You realize what that makes you, right?

[Flanker]

85. Again you have no clue

There you go

El cantante Alejandro Sanz llama asesino a Chávez y "fascista" a la izquierda latinoamericana
23:59h. del Lunes, 20 de noviembre de 2006.

http://www.larepublica.es/spip.php?article2812

Let me get this straight, supporter Aznar, calls the left fascist, sexists jokes etc. I can see why you support him... not.

BTW he still has free speech, this claim is just rightwing propaganda.

[cali]

92. Look, I don't give a damn if he makes sexist jokes.

Or calls Chavez a murderer. Or other offensive stuff. And yes, he was banned from playing a venue.

It's disturbing when similar things happen here, and it's distubing there.

[1932]

98. OK. So what facts are you admitting now?

This singer called chavez a murderer, advocates his assassination, is sexist, supports Aznar, and makes a lot of money from a corporate hegemonic system (MTV, Universal, etc.) that people like Aznar live to support, and Chavez lives to dismantle so that people have a fighting chance to live with dignity...

are you aceepting any of those facts? all of those facts?

[cali]

108. If he advocated Chavez' be murdered

that's a different story. The rest- that he's sexist or makes lots of money or supports Aznar is fucking irrelevant. And as I've said, I think, on balance, from what I know, Chavez has done far more good than not. Can't say I think much of imposing one philosophy of educational principle or his extending the time one can serve as President, however. But if Sanz did call for Chavez' assassination, that makes his being denied the stadium a lot more justifiable.

[1932]

94. OK. So you have your link.

What do you think?

[Flanker]

102. Here is another link he might like

Sanz stated in reference to Chavez during the signature collection period "that if millions asked me to not sing anymore, I would stop singing"

http://www.petitiononline.com/nomasale/petition.html

Well they only got 300k ;)

[Maribelle]

51. Critic, is seems to me, is such a mild word to use on someone that wants Chavez assassinated.

Shame on the BBC.

[sufrommich]

56. When did the singer say he wanted Chavez dead?

[ohio2007]

63. Maribelle saw it on the bbc and rumor is good enough for me,throw him out

the singer needs demonized.
oh
His music is bad also.
/sarc

[cali]

74. Did she provide a link?

Or is this a case of claiming without evidence.

[ohio2007]

90. rumors don't need links to grow legs

sufrommich called the person out and I 'assume' that person will dig up the bbc link any minute now ;)


btw,
how do you assume she
is a she?

[cali]

66. tsk, tsk.

lying is not a good habit. Provide even the tiniest ort of evidence that Sanz advocates the assassination of Chavez.

Shame.

[Maribelle]

115. No tsk tsk. I live in South Florida.

If I said to you that a self-proclaimed-Cuban-exile-singer, in say a South Beach club, was not simply a "critic" of Castro because they wanted him assassinated, would you then tsk tsk me?

What on earth makes you think for a second this does not go on regarding Chavez?


Here is a classic example on Miami TV:

Miami, January 12 2004 On Monday, a group of Venezuelan ex-military officers opposed to the democratic government of President Hugo Chavez, openly called for the intervention of the U.S. Army to stop the process of change occurring in Venezuela.

On the local television program Maria Elvira Confronta, hosted by Maria Elvira Salazar on channel 22 in Miami, rebel Venezuelan officer Luis Piña was asked if he would agree with a military invention in Venezuela by the United States and if he would like to see the U.S. Marines walking on his native Venezuelan territory with the intention of overthrowing President Hugo Chavez.

Mr. Piña, who is now retired Sergeant and representative of the anti-Chavez organization, Todos por Venezuela (All for Venezuela), responded that he would agree with such action by the US military, “along with 80% of Venezuelans that are hoping for that U.S. intervention to happen.” A person who accompanied Piña at the show seemed also pleased with his response.

Later on the debate show Descalzi Vs. Brown, broadcasted in the same channel, invited guest Silvino Bustillos, a Venezuelan retired Colonel (Aviation), also expressed his desire to see his native country invaded by the U.S. and asked also for an intervention by United Nations forces.

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/313

Then, weeks later, in February 2004 while in Venezuela, Alejandro said: "I don't come here to make a revolution, I came to sing. “ out one side of his forked tongue, and accused Chávez of turning "the jewel of Latin America" into "a sad and poor country" out the other. This singer has voiced solid support for the Chávez's oppisition on different occassions.

Of course he didn’t go there to make a revolution, he simply has such a crisp sense of humor.

You need to understand the depths to which Chávez's oppisition will to go. No shallower than Castro's, and just as uncessful. But that could change any minute.

[nick303]

166. Stop dodging

He never called for his assassination. No one is concerned about your distractions.

[ohio2007]

53. the Venezuelan "higher education minister" knows whats best for his people

A government minister accused Alejandro Sanz of criticising Mr Chavez three years ago while touring Venezuela.

Sanz needs censured despite his views of presidents in other countries,he is wrong to criticize Chavez in his own country,
right?

[tom_paine]

71. It seems Chavez is Bush, and Bush is Chavez

How much clearer can it be that Tyranny is independant of political philosophy and ANY poliitcal philosophy can be used to promote Tyranny.

Just look at Amerika these past seven years. ANY philosophy can be used by Tyrants to hide behind.

[sufrommich]

76. A great post that suits your screen name.

[ProudDad]

179. Simplistic crap based on a hater's disinterest of facts...

That belies your screen name...

Mr. Paine's spinning in his grave...

[DuaneBidoux]

106. I just wonder how far this can go before Chavez supporters pull their heads out of their asses.

He may have very good reason to become authoritarian as a response to attacks, just the way a mass murderer or a child molester has good reason because he was abused as a child.

Sure he's against imperialistic policies from foreign countries (read: US)but all the Bolsheviks started with good intentions too.

I am willing to concede every single bad thing that happened to Chile by our hand and by the hand of right wing thugs in his own country--but that changes nothing about him.

For those who defend Chavez by pointing to Bush I guess my only question is "do you really want that to be your standard for progressive leaders"?

[Dave From Canada]

123. Damn good question. However, they're too busy attacking Nixon, Reagan and Bush in response to King

Hugo's dictator-like behavior. As if anyone who denounces Chavez must also support the despicable actions of those administrations.

[DuaneBidoux]

129. Uh, realized too late made major error: I do know it is Venezuela not Chile.

[struggle4progress]

165. Gasp! A concert relocated! Surely only blood in the streets can follow!

[ProudDad]

182. Nope, my standard for Progressive leaders

are the People of Venezuela...

[denem]

131. For Chavez Good, Too Rich Bad.

The Sheep ought be be ashamed.

[ProudDad]

170. You do realize that this is old news

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2034931

[ProudDad]

180. Here's what the little piece of fluff said...

This sounds pretty political and inflammatory and ignorant to me:

Alejandro Sanz afirma que "le desagrada el presidente venezolano, Hugo Chavez" y que dejarra de cantar si se lo piden tres millones de firmas, en alusion al referendum revocatorio

El pasado 15 de febrero, en la prensa comercial, el cantante Alejandro Sanz, afirmó que "le desagrada el presidente venezolano, Hugo Chávez, y que dejaría de cantar si se lo piden tres millones de personas con firmas", en alusión a las rúbricas que dice tener recolectadas la oposición para lograr un referendo revocatorio del mandato de nuestro Presidente, electo por millones de venezolanos.

"A mí, si me dieran tres millones de firmas para que dejara de cantar, dejaría de cantar", confesó el artista, aunque aclaró que a Venezuela "no vengo a hacer revolución, he venido a cantar y ya está". Alejandro Sanz se ha destacado en los últimos meses por sus agresiones al gobierno cubano y sus gestos de cooperación con la disidencia cubana en Miami. Quien denunciaba, según él, la falta de elecciones en Cuba, no parece que las de Venezuela sean tampoco de su gusto.

Múltiples organizaciones venezolanas han respondido al cantante español con la creación de la denominada Alianza por un mundo sin Alejandro Sanz y, tomándole la palabra han iniciado una campaña para que deje de cantar, tal y como el propio artistas ha sugerido que haría si se lo piden.

[EFerrari]

183. I can't believe this thread is still going. Maybe I should start posting

every time the Punchline cancels a comedian for making a stupid remark.

:rofl: