Pelosi Wavering on Armenian Resolution

[jefferson_dem]

Source: ABC News

Pelosi Wavering on Armenian Resolution
Share October 16, 2007 5:39 PM

ABC News' George Stephanopoulos Reports: According to Congressional and Bush administration sources, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is now unlikely to bring a resolution which would label the deaths of Armenians in a conflict more than 90 years ago as "genocide".

Pelosi, as recently as Sunday on "This Week", has repeatedly said she would call the controversial but nonbinding resolution for a vote despite the opposition of the Bush administration and warnings that it could damage U.S. relations with Turkey.

President Bush called Speaker Pelosi on Monday night and asked her to pull the bill. But Congressional sources say that Pelosi is telling House members that she will not bring the bill to the floor without majority support.

At least seven House members have withdrawn as co-sponsors of the bill and several more are expected to follow. Key Pelosi ally Rep. John Murtha, D-Penn., is also lobbying against a vote.

Key House members continue to canvass members but don't expect a vote this year.

Read more: http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/10/pelosi-wavering.html

[Doctor_J]

1. that didn't take long

yesterday she was standing firm. TIme for a palace coup. What's Jim McGovern doing?

[dickbearton]

41. The warmongers are slow to figure out it might hurt their invasion and occupation.

RW nuts are stupid, but not that stupid. Good try.

[IndianaGreen]

44. On a more important matter, Pelosi also vowed to not bring Lieberman Iran resolution up for a vote

on the House, and many DUers were betting how long before she caved in to that.

[xchrom]

2. and to think i was really excited when she made Speaker.

:eyes:

[BlueManDude]

3. I don't care one way or another about this resolution, but...

don't press the issue, pass it thru committee then back down. It's makes them look weak and feckless.

[...of J.Temperance]

6. I CARE about calling Genocide Genocide

Who gives a fuck about WTF Turkey wants....what the heck does Turkey DO for anyone?

Nothing that's what, that's why so many people are against Turkey joining the EU, Turkey are neither friends nor Allies, they're wolves in sheeps clothing, just like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are wolves in sheeps clothing.

[kestrel91316]

11. Well, there is that little matter of US military bases in Turkey

protecting our Middle East (oil) interests.

IMHO we are not close enough to energy self-sufficiency to just tell them to go pound sand.........

[...of J.Temperance]

13. As I just commented on another thread

I rarely make an Ideological move, I usually remain pragmatic and think of the politics and the political situation.

However, I DO draw the line at certain things, Genocide and acknowledging Genocide is ONE of those things....this is a totally moral issue with me....I don't give a fuck about Turkey in this instance.

Like OTHER nations who have participated in Genocide, they need to acknowledge THEIR part in a Genocide....would ANYONE be pampering and sucking up to Germany if THEY didn't recognize The Holocaust, no....so really nobody should be sucking up to Turkey considering they've take the cowardly decision to PRETEND that the Armenian Genocide never happened and that the Turks didn't have anything to do with it.

The US Military bases, move them somewhere else then....Turkey isn't the Be-All-And-End-All, there's other places.

[Amonester]

40. Agreed. But... (yes... and this 'but' is a big one...)

Like other nations who have participated in genocide, we (yes: US) also need to acknowledge our part in (how many?) genocide(s?).

Millions and I are still waiting for "that first one" first: the Millions of North-American Natives slaughtered because (why?).

And end our list of "acknowledgements" with the (current) genocide of Iraqis (note: is it absolutely necessary to wait until we murder no more of them before "acknowledging" we've participated in their genocide?)

[Teaser]

17. I don't care about calling Genocide genocide.

A genocide happened, and everyone knows it. Labelling it as such is superfluous.

When we were in a stronger position vis-a-vis Turkey, we could have told them to go pound sand, but we ain't.

That being said, once this was the course of action we decided to take, sticking with it would have been nice.

[...of J.Temperance]

21. We'll have to

Agree to disagree then, respectfully.

This of course is a good example of how weak W's made things....where, bizarrely, Turkey have the upper hand and hold the Ace in the pack....the US Military bases in Turkey.

[harun]

23. It wasn't a genocide it was a war and they took the side of the

Russians and were fighting the Turks.

[BuddhaGirl]

27. 22 other countries say differently. Eyewitness accounts exist, as well

it was a Genocide - even Hitler has cited the Armenian Genocide as part inspiration for the Holocaust. Some more info:

http://www.motherjones.com/news/dailymojo/2004/04/04_534.html

snip....

"The problem for Turkey is that records of the "Young Turk" government which orchestrated the killings, dispatches from Western diplomats, military officers, and aid workers, and testimonials of genocide survivors all confirm a systematic effort to wipe out the Armenian minority."

[PaulaFarrell]

48. every president since Ford

has acknowledged it as genocide, excluding clinton and the current bush. it's not exactly a new concept. turkey just seems more and more determined to deny it. Seems to be effective in some quarters.

[Dutch]

53. Disgusting. You should be thoroughly ashamed of your self.

[harun]

60. Read up on some history

http://homepages.cae.wisc.edu/~dwilson/Armenia/justin.html

[bdamomma]

58. fuck turkey is correct, that is why other countries did not admit

them into the EU, now this should be interesting, if the US backs down from this resolution, and Turkey goes on its merry way to kill Kurds and the Americans blind their eyes to it, and in the meantime a another slap in the face to all those Armenians who have fighting for Turkey to fess up and acknowledge the massacres, yea, sure Turkey is our ally huh? that is why Turkey said no to *'ie when they wanted to use their airspace for the invasion. My opinion Turkey is not to be trusted.

[The Stranger]

64. How did you get from Turkey to throwing in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia?

All Muslim countries, I guess?

[BlueManDude]

68. That wasn;t the point of my post - there are good arguments against doing this now

but I wasn't talking about the merits of the issue - just the weakness of raising the issue and then backing down from it. If they weren't going to pass the resolution they shouldn't have brought up the issue.

[OnyxCollie]

4. Pelosi is worthless. nt

[...of J.Temperance]

5. She better NOT be wavering

The Armenian Genocide WAS a Genocide, it WAS a crime against humanity....and I don't give a jackshit IF Turkey throws a hissyfit and demands that it's all brushed under the carpet.

Speaker Pelosi had BETTER not be wavering....who cares about "relations with Turkey", nobody owes Turkey a THING.

Here's a good link, with sound, and I warn pictures as well, it's very informative:

www.theforgotten.org/site/intro_eng.html

Here's a Wikipedia link as well, again with pictures, and those pictures resemble ANOTHER Genocide that we all know about....Genocide IS Genocide, and it NEEDS to be recognized....and NO amount of lobbying from foreign nations should CHANGE Speaker Pelosi's mind on bringing this to a vote....recognizing the Armenian Genocide as Genocide IS the correct and decent thing to do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

You can't ignore that between 500,000 to a million human beings were butchered, because of political lobbying and Turkey having a hissyfit.

[Baby Snooks]

7. Maybe they don't like looking in the mirror...

Depending on how you define genocide, maybe they don't like looking in the mirror. We are just as guilty of Iraqi genocide. They are anyway.

[partylessinOhio]

8. The sheep caved again to *. What a woman! What a squeaker!

:thumbsdown:

She should never have made those comments on Sunday. She looks weak and indecisive. Please step down, Madame Squeaker.

[acmavm]

9. Now that's the Nancy I have become (unhappily) familiar with since

the faux celebration of the November 2006 election.

We won NOTHING!

[IndianaGreen]

46. The November 2006 election turned out to be a placebo.

We won NOTHING!

I sadly agree with you. We've been had!

:-(

[Orsino]

10. It must be Tuesday.

I mean, I expect compromise from a real politician, but Jesus, Madame Speaker.

[eagler]

12. This is the right thing for her to do at this time.

the last thing we need is to make more enemies in the Middle East. The Ottoman Empire died 90 years ago.

[sendero]

14. Bringing the resolution to the floor..

... may or may not be the right thing to do.

But what is INDISPUTABLY NOT RIGHT is to take it this far and then abandon it.

Pelosi is pathetic.

[harun]

22. I think they figured out if this passed, it would end the occupation

For a minute I thought she was brilliant.

I don't think this resolution should have ever been brought up but after some others pointed out this would likely end the occupation it sure would have been nice to see the troops coming home. Coming home because of something a Dem did as well.

That was some sloppy politik'ing from Pelosi, not good, not good.

[choie]

25. let's see...

taking impeachment off the table is the right thing for her to do at this time,

taking a resolution against genocide off the table is the right thing for her to do at this time,

when will taking a stand be the right thing for her to do?

She is an utter and complete piece of crap.

[ohio2007]

15. ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O-4sdm7UFk

[Teaser]

16. She shouldn't have taken up this resolution

if she wasn't prepared to take the heat for it.

We could have just let it alone for a bit. But once she decided to push, she needed to push the whole way.

[rolleitreks]

18. Good call. This was a lose/lose proposition.

Congress should be bringing the troops home and restoring our civil liberties, not appeasing rich donors over an issue almost a century old. The government in question no longer exists. Also, I fail to see a role for the U.S. Congress. If this issue is important -- and I'm sure it is, not least to those of Armenian descent -- wouldn't the correct forum be the U.N.?

[Venus Dog]

19. Can you say Sibel Edmonds?

Sibel Edmonds: Turkey, drugs and 9/11
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1894035

I think Nancy was given an offer she couldn't refuse.

[Orrin_73]

70. So everything sibel edmonds say is true????

What a bunch of nonsense! Edmonds sued the FBI and lost, she was left with 285000 dollars of debt. Now she is in a crusade against anaybody. Her supporters act like a bunch of kids each time I object too edmonds words they attack and insult me.

[OHdem10]

20. I hate to say it but the Democrats have been politically

tone deaf. They have had no sense of timing. Timing is everything
in politics. Bad timing can kill you.

They have perfected the art of boxing themselves in --which in
the end causes them to appear to be constantly caving.

[honestmel]

24. Time and Place for Everything

History proves and knows what it is....why now? It is a fact that if Turkey closes air space to us it will be hazardous to our troops. Even though we want them home.....we want them safe....right? A resolution in the House will do nothing to bring back the dead or to make restitution...what is the point? The genocide that we should be worried about is in Dar-fur

[Mojorabbit]

26. Exactly

The timing for this is horrendous. I can't imagine that if I as a housewife could see that with Turkey threatening to send troops in to northern iraq for the past year and our troops there and that this was a delicate situation... that they could not see this too. It just makes no sense. Something else is going on beneath all this.
Welcome to DU.

[tom_paine]

28. Jesus Christ! She cowers even for her own meaningles bullshit.

She cowers so much :puke: it simply vindicates what the Republics say.

I am sick of it. I am also sick of a country where 74% of the people have 0% representation.

Either we restore the old American Republic, or we go down in history with the 1930s Germans as enablers of a monstrous tyrant.

[IndianaGreen]

43. Amazing that she is even spineless on her own worthless shit.

I am personally opposed to this resolution for reasons stated on an earlier thread about Pelosi being resolute on this misguided resolution:

The Ottoman Empire is not modern Turkey

In addition, Turkey is Israel's only friend in the region. This misguided resolution will only play into the hands of the Islamic radicals in Turkey.

How about Pelosi endorsing slavery reparations?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3028088#3028521

Pelosi cares more about what happened in 1915 than she does about our troops dying in Iraq today

Perhaps Pelosi should resign her seat and join the faculty at Stanford's history department.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3028088#3030226

The LBN thread by Omaha Steve:

Pelosi Vows to Push Ahead With Genocide Measure

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3028088

[Freddie Stubbs]

29. Support Wanes in House for Genocide Vote

Source: The New York Times

By CARL HULSE
WASHINGTON, Oct. 16 — Worried about antagonizing Turkish leaders, House members from both parties have begun to withdraw their support from a resolution supported by the Democratic leadership that would condemn as genocide the mass killings of Armenians nearly a century ago.

Almost a dozen lawmakers had shifted against the measure over the last 24 hours, accelerating a sudden exodus that has cast deep doubt over the measure’s prospects. Some representatives made clear that they were heeding warnings from the White House, which has called the measure dangerously provocative, and from the Turkish government, which has said House passage would prompt Turkey to reconsider its ties to the United States, including logistical support for the Iraq war.

Until today, the resolution appeared to be on a path to House passage, with strong support from the House speaker, Nancy Pelosi of California. It was approved last week by the House Foreign Affairs Committee. But this evening, a group of group of senior House Democrats had made it known they were planning to ask the leadership to drop plans for a vote on the measure.

“Turkey obviously feels they are getting poked in the eye over something that happened a century ago, and maybe this isn’t a good time to be doing that,” said Representative Allen Boyd, a Florida Democrat who dropped his sponsorship of the resolution Monday night.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/17/washington/17cnd-cong.html?ei=5065&en=20af3ab48140086a&ex=1193198400&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print

[seemslikeadream]

30. as Turkish military masses on Iraqi border and gas goes to $88 a barrel

I wonder if someone else is getting suitcases full of cash now that Denny's gone

[UGADUer]

31. I knew this would happen.

Sigh.

[Xipe Totec]

32. tic... toc... tic... toc... The primaries are coming boys and girls,

and we won't necessarily vote for the incumbents...

So, think carefully, congressman bedfellow, what are you doing about the issues that matter to your constituency?

Turkey?... Turkey?!!!... Is that the biggest issue on your agenda?...

[NoodleyAppendage]

33. Cowards. Representative Democracy...my ass.

Not a firm backbone in the bunch. Time to watch those poll numbers decline further, you friggin' cowards!

J

[tom_paine]

34. Not even for this meaningless gesture could they hang together with spine.

I'll say it again, because I am thoroughly convinced of it. 74% of Americans (the number who routinely now answer that the country is on the "wrong track"...they need to add another category the country has "gone insane") have 0% representation.

[knight_of_the_star]

37. I wouldn't call this meaningless

If we hadn't blown our wad so frivolously on this idiocy in Iraq then we could pass this resolution and let the Turks scream all they want.

If we do it now then the shit-clogged fan called Iraq will explode.

[tom_paine]

38. Touche.

[knight_of_the_star]

47. Not that I agree with her wavering on this one

If you set a course you follow through, you don't duck out at the last second because it looks like it will get tough.

[tom_paine]

59. Exactly. n/t

[Freddie Stubbs]

49. "Representative Democracy?"

Are you suggesting that a majority of American support this resolution?

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TahitiNut]

42. "... a group of senior House Democrats"

Allen Boyd (Florida), Blue Dog Co-Chair for Administration

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[UGADUer]

39. We have the most competent opposition party EVER!1!111

[IndianaGreen]

45. Congressional Democrats were pathetic as an opposition party

and they are even more pathetic as a majority party. Why can't they be more like our local Democrats who at least stand and fight for what they believe in?

[UGADUer]

50. You have vertebrate local Democrats?

We don't even have those.

[rodeodance]

51. NYT:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/17/washington/17cong.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin

WASHINGTON, Oct. 16 — Worried about antagonizing Turkish leaders, House members from both parties have begun to withdraw their support from a resolution backed by the Democratic leadership that would condemn as genocide the mass killings of Armenians nearly a century ago.

Almost a dozen lawmakers had shifted against the measure in a 24-hour period ending Tuesday night, accelerating a sudden exodus that has cast deep doubt over the measure’s prospects. Some made clear that they were heeding warnings from the White House, which has called the measure dangerously provocative, and from the Turkish government, which has said House passage would prompt Turkey to reconsider its ties to the United States, including logistical support for the Iraq war.

Until Tuesday, the measure appeared on a path to House passage, with strong support from House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. It was approved last week by the House Foreign Affairs Committee. But by Tuesday evening, a group of senior House Democrats had made it known that they were planning to ask the leadership to drop plans for a vote on the measure. .....

The Democratic leadership was examining the exact level of that support to gauge its next step, but lawmakers and officials said it was now unclear whether the resolution could be approved, given Republican resistance and Democratic defections. “We will have to determine where everyone is,” said Representative Steny H. Hoyer of Maryland, the majority leader.

Ms. Pelosi, who has promised a vote on the resolution if it cleared the committee, said she was leaving it to its chief backers to round up votes. “I have never known a count,” she said........

[rodeodance]

52. New york times headline is more truthful----congresscritters wavering

[Dutch]

54. Looks like the cowards are going to get what they want, then.

Together with the (moral equivalent of) holocaust deniers.

[JPZenger]

55. Resolution Was Supported by Many Republicans

There is an effort to publicize the Armenian resolution as a Democratic effort. Actually, large numbers of Republican House members were co-sponsors.

Personally, I really believe it is the worst time to bring this up. The last thing that the region needs is throwing more gasoline on the flames. After we get US troops out of Iraq, then you can pass the resolution.

[truebrit71]

56. Time for Nancy to go. ENOUGH with the caving...

How could you POSSIBLY fuck this up any worse?

On a MASSIVE anti-war vote you sweep into the majority, and then succeed and doing FUCK ALL!!!

Nancy, Lead, Follow, or get the FUCK out of the way! But for fuck's sake DO something...(other than caving 100% of the time).

[bdamomma]

57. well, her constituents will not be too happy with nancy.

what is this administration holding over Congress heads???? sickening not to stand up to this weasel of a man.

[alllyingwhores]

61. FUCKING IDIOT!

What the fuck was her intent in the first place?

Here's an idea Nancy--WHY NOT ADDRESS AN ISSUE YOU CAN ACTUALLY EFFECT--if you're really concerned about mass murder...I don't know...why not stop the fucking idiot-child's ongoing murderous occupation--that's making us all more and more of a target--BY REFUSING TO BRING ANY WAR FUNDING BILL TO THE FLOOR.

And what the hell, maybe...IMPEACH THE M_THER F_CKER ALREADY and actually hold the little arrogant moron accountable for any number of his treasonous acts--and maybe prevent WWIII!

[superconnected]

66. The problem isn't really cowardice. It's that she doesn't STAND

AGAINST the things beyond lip service, in the first place.

She must not believe in them.

[laylah]

62. Is the ANYTHING this woman

won't "waver" on? What a disappointment she has become.

[Zhade]

63. Pelosi a coward? Say it ain't so!

I'm so shocked!

Not.

[superconnected]

65. WTF. She can't even support measures against genocide?

Fuck.

What is wrong with that woman?

We really HAVE to get rid of her and get someone with a spine.

[Megahurtz]

67. I Thought She Would Stick With This!

:wtf::crazy:

Damn, damn, damn!:grr:

[KansDem]

69. Now, what was it about Hastert we didn't like?

:shrug:

[lovuian]

71. She is turning out to be a piece of work

:rofl:

I guess Turkey going to war with Iraq gave her a wake up call

I am appalled at her idiocy lately