Governor calls up Guard, asks Bush for military support

[maddezmom]

Source: Fresno Bee

10/22/07 16:49:43
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Gov. Schwarzenegger is calling up 1,500 National Guard troops to deploy to the Southern California wildfires.

He's also asking President Bush to authorize San Diego-area military forces to work with local officials to provide cots, first-aid equipment and possibly personnel to aid evacuees and firefighters.

Adam Mendelsohn, a spokesman for the governor, says Schwarzenegger talked to the president twice, and was told the Bush administration will start working on the request for military support.

Earlier today, the flames forced dozens of California National Guard troops to evacuate their barracks along the Mexican border. Guardsmen also are helping U.S. Border Patrol agents to evacuate threatened areas.



Read more: http://www.fresnobee.com/384/story/171368.html

---

White House says Bush calls governor to make sure state gets help

~snip~

Stanzel says the Federal Emergency Management Agency has provided fire management assistance grants for four major fires.

The grants provide 75 percent of the cost for field camps, equipment repair and replacement, mobilization activities and other expenses.

In addition, Stanzel says the U.S. Department of Agriculture has deployed fire crews, engines, air tankers and helicopters to the incident areas.

more:http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_7250586?source=rss

[Kagemusha]

1. God bless their souls.

They're so ----ed now.

(Edit: This is re: "Adam Mendelsohn, a spokesman for the governor, says Schwarzenegger talked to the president twice, and was told the Bush administration will start working on the request for military support." Good luck with that. Let me know how it goes...)

[enid602]

2. Mexico

Hell, we could probably even count on the help of nearby-stationed Mexican troops and firefighters, had we not gone so far out of our way purposely humiliate their nation with respect to immigration issues.

[tuckessee]

116. Doesn't Mexico humiliate the US more on immigration issues?

Try sneaking across the border into Mexico & see what happens.

I assure you amnesty won't be one of the things you receive.

[KoKo]

3. Whoa! Is Maria (Kennedy)_ Shriver finally getting to him...or is he still Posturing to be New Reagan

calling for National Guard for Callifornia (which always sounds like Cauliflowerornia..every time the Austrian Citizen speaks it). What's going on, here? :shrug:

[maddezmom]

4. Nevada to aid Southern California with wildfires

Oct 22, 2007 07:45 PM CDT


More than 100 firefighters from Northern Nevada are on their way to Southern California Monday night. They are ready to help out the beleaguered crews on the fire lines. The crews come from virtually every fire agency in this part of Northern Nevada-county, city, state and federal. On Monday, in response to an urgent call from help, they massed south of Gardnerville and prepared to leave.

Five strike crews, consisting of 25 trucks and more than 100 firefighters started out on the long trip around 1 pm Monday. They'll gather with other fire crews from out of state, in Chino, California. That's in San Bernardino and then, crews will wait for instructions. These firefighters know they'll be facing powerful Santa Ana winds and dangerous conditions in Southern California. But they say they're ready for the challenge.

"We will go to the staging area," Bruce Van Cleemput of NDF said. "Where they will determine the highest priorities on these fires. And then we'll be mobilized into wherever they need us most down there."

The crews could be gone for anywhere between 72 hours and two weeks, depending on what they find when they arrive and how soon California authorities will be able to release them.

more:http://www.krnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7249956

[anitar1]

123. Washimgon and Oregon have 115 firefighters there. n/t

[Sam Ervin jret]

5. opps! Do we have anybody left we can send to help save California?

I thought we sent everyone down to rank "Eagle Scout" over to Iraq. Three tours in a row.

Maybe, the the "Brownies" are available.

[knight_of_the_star]

6. Here's hoping there's something left to help

So what instrument do you think Bush is going to learn to play now?

[maddezmom]

7. fiddle

:shrug:

[maddezmom]

8. Bush helps raise cash for GOP governors...but looks like no pics

Bush helps raise cash for GOP governors
The Associated Press

WASHINGTON --President Bush attended a fundraiser tonight hosted by the Republican Governors Association.

The R-G-A is celebrating the recent victory of Bobby Jindal, a GOP candidate just elected governor of Louisiana.

The event raised $650,000 for Republican gubernatorial candidates across the nation, according to a Republican official who declined to be named because the organization did not disclose details of the event.
http://www.kentucky.com/471/story/209844.html

[MadMaddie]

9. Once again while Americans are losing their homes and possibly

their lives * puts Politics above American lives.

Hey this is going to get interesting when the Insurance companies start denying claims to Californians based on bullshit.

Get ready to fight for your rights California...the Insurance industry is already waiting to deny you what is owed to you. Rotten bastards.

[daninthemoon]

10. 250,000 evacuated in San Diego County

Source: MSNBC

250,000 evacuated from San Diego county fires.

No link yet.

---

This number shocked me. I mentioned it to my wife, and she put it in perspective. All these expensive homes will be rebuilt in the same fire prone area. Our insurance premiums will go up to help pay people to live in these untennable areas. Sorry for the people and their loss, but these areas are not going to support permanent settlement.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

11. Here's a link

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071022/ap_on_re_us/california_wildfires

SAN DIEGO - Wildfires fanned by fierce desert winds forced the evacuations of nearly 250,000 people Monday in San Diego County, including hundreds who were being moved by school bus and ambulance from a hospital and nursing homes.


More than a dozen wildfires had engulfed Southern California, killing at least one person, injuring dozens more and threatening scores of structures.

The fires have burned about 100,000 acres in San Diego County, said county Supervisor Ron Roberts. "This is a major emergency," he said.

"We have more houses burning than we have people and engine companies to fight them," San Diego Fire Captain Lisa Blake said. "A lot of people are going to lose their homes today."

[cboy4]

12. Stop generalizing and saying "all these expensive homes"

These are not all homes belonging to rich people.

[The_Casual_Observer]

13. They might not belong to rich people, but I guarantee that they are

expensive homes.

Show me a home in SoCal that isn't expensive.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

20. Some facts

The average median household income in San Diego County is $51,939.

Median value of owner occupied housing is $227,200.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06/06073.html

[cboy4]

34. You're kidding me, right?

People who are native Californians and have lived in their homes for decades now own expensive homes due to the cost of living in this state and property values.

That does not mean these people are wealthy and can afford to lose their homes, or deserve to lose their homes.

[The_Casual_Observer]

35. Kid you about what?

[robinlynne]

90. Most of us live in apartments, and rent, by the way.

[Carolina]

110. and your point?

are you saying they deserve this?

Spare me. Losing your home is devastating PERIOD.

And BTW, there is market value versus reality. Thousands of people have lived for generations in a place and watched the 'market' proclaim their modest homes to be worth hundreds of thousands even millions.

These are still people's homes, their lives, their memories...

Please tell me you are not that callous!

[Lone_Star_Dem]

16. No, they're not

"One person was killed and several injured in a fire near the Mexican border, and dozens of structures have burned across the region."

Trust me, there's many of we common folks who live in that area.

[Sukie1941]

18. I have friends in Ramona who are not rich!

They are scared they will lose everything...even the horses!

[Gormy Cuss]

25. Everybody in California is rich.

All of our houses are built where they shouldn't be because we are greedy, and we need to be reminded of that while houses are burning down.
:eyes:

For people who aren't familiar with life in this state, there are building code stipulations to encourage more fireproof and earthquake resistant structures as well as severe insurance penalties for those who choose not to mitigate hazards.

[huskerlaw]

91. Wait...what?

Was I supposed to have gotten some sort of check when I moved here? Or are newbies totally left out of the "Citizens of California Shall All Be Rich Enough To Afford a House" law?

I'm feeling REALLY cheated right now. Fucking Californians.






;)

[Greyskye]

94. I bet you didn't get your pony either.

Ha ha! I sold mine on eBay. :evilgrin:

[huskerlaw]

95. YOU GOT A PONY?!

Ok, now I really AM pissed. :mad:

(but then again, the only places I could keep it are currently on fire, so maybe it's actually better I didn't get it...)

;)

[lynnertic]

126. You're right in a way.

The skies, the weather, the natural beauty is worth much more than money.
I even love the people.

[tandot]

41. The funny thing is that the OP lives in the same area that I've lived in for 10 years

before moving to California. At least his profile says so.

In those 10 years, each and every year I had damage done to my house and car. It doesn't take a tornado to do some serious damage. We had part of the roof blown off more than once, a 6-foot high wooden fence destroyed more than once. Wind toppled a tree, damaging my car and the house. Straight winds blew the windows out of my car another time...I could go on.

I am so glad that I live in N CA now.

[shanti]

112. heh

just hope you don't get caught in a flood!;-)

[coalition_unwilling]

51. These are the same people who would tell you that the victims

of Katrina "deserved it" because they didn't evacuate when ordered to. I have no sympathy for anyone in that category (and there are many of them in the heavily RW suburbs of San Diego). Let 'em get a little taste of what the victims of Katrina had to experience and maybe something good will come of it.

[cboy4]

52. Wow, you win the award today for not just broad

generalizations but for bigotry as well.

Excellent job. :eyes:

[coalition_unwilling]

67. You obviously have never visited the suburban environs

of San Diego. Those districts and most of the other ones on fire are notorious centers of support for Reich Wing politics (read Minutemen and so on).

I double-checked my sentiment with several of my black friends and colleagues over the weekend and today and know that I am certainly not alone in feeling that these predominantly white and RW victims are merely going to be "inconvenienced". In other words, they're not going to die because they happen to have enough money to be able to self-evacuate. But feel sorry for them, when they exhibited not one whit of pity for the victims of Katrina??? Give me a break.

[cboy4]

75. Riiiiiiight coalition....as though the flames hopscotch

and burn only the homes of Right Wingers, and Minutemen, and freepers.

No homes of Democrats have burned, ha?

You're cheering on the burning of homes to teach certain people a lesson, when you know that not everyone who is losing everything, "exhibited not one whit of pity for the victims of Katrina."

There are good Democrats in San Diego, including my family members and friends.

And you're behavior and bigotry concerning this disaster is outrageous.

[coalition_unwilling]

78. Not "cheering it on" ( you're setting up a straw man), just not

feeling much pity for those so incapable of exhibiting much pity themselves when the shoe was on the other foot.

By the way, it's 'your' not 'you're'

You're right, I'm bigoted . . . against bigots. If Katrina taught me one thing, it's that we are all ultimately on our own and can't really depend on our fellow citizens for any kind of meaningful assistance and are lucky if we don't get shot by their hired mercenaries (Blackwater patrolled the streets of New Orleans post-Katrina. Wonder how long it will be before Schwarzenazi mobilizes them for this 'emergency'???)

[cboy4]

79. No, sorry to break the news to you coalition that you

are a full-fledged bigot.

Here's the definition of bigot:

: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot

The first line applies to you coalition.

I'll excuse you for not understanding the definition of a bigot.

And by the way, thanks for correcting my grammar. It's only the one millionth time I've made that mistake when typing fast.

[coalition_unwilling]

81. I admitted I was bigoted against bigots and that's not enough for you???

OK, I'm also bigoted against people who don't know the difference between your and you're, although I'm willing to cut you some slack on that.

You bet I'm obstinately or intolerantly devoted to my own opinions and prejudices, especially when it comes to ReichWing racists.

Here's something for you to consider: in all the media coverage yesterday of evacuees from Malibu, Canyon Country and other fires, they showed exactly one Latino and zero blacks!!! N.B. Los Angeles is now 51% Latino. QED.

[cboy4]

87. Well coalition, no. You're not only bigoted against

bigots. You're bigoted against Democrats and others who may not be bigots.

You seem to think the flames are only burning down the homes of people you think are "ReichWing racists."

You refuse to acknowledge that the homes of Democrats are also burning down. The entire population of San Diego County is not comprised of Republicans.

You seem very misinformed.

[coalition_unwilling]

118. You've caught me. I'm also bigoted against Democrats who supported

and voted for the war in Iraq and who continue to support it. Actually, I don't plan to continue my registration in that Democratic Party (if Hillary as the presumptive nominee becomes the actual nominee). And really how sorry should I feel for any Democrat whose house burns down if he or she supported the war in Iraq (for whatever misguided reasons), given the enormous amount of suffering that war has caused???

Lest you think there's not a heavy racial and class element at play here in the California fires, just as there was during Katrina and its aftermath, I challenge you to ask the opinion of any African American as to whether the amount of attention being given to these fires and their presumptive victims doesn't strike that African American as singularly out-of-whack, given the relative lack of attention and covert and not-so-covert racism and classism exhibited by society towards the actual victims of Katrina.

Here's one great example: in 2 1/2 days of coverage on the 3 principal commercial Anglo stations in Los Angeles, I have seen exactly 1 Latino interviewed and 0 blacks. This in a media viewing area whose population is, by some counts, majority Latino and at least 10% black. No, the commentators are white, the firefighters are white, the presumptive victims are white. Why, watching the media coverage, you'd think all of Southern California was white and Anglo.

To make sure I wasn't imagining this, I ran it by a few of my black friends and colleagues and the response from them was almost unanimous. They seemed amused that I was so surprised and outraged by it. They have grown used to the racist and classist society in which we live and this is "small potatoes" for them.

[kuratowa]

108. County's Political Makeup

I'm continually surprised about people who see the political makeup of a county as being just red and blue. It's a stark generality that boggles the mind.

As for the area around San Diego:

Purple map - 2004 elections

It leans red, but is still not anywhere near 100% red.

[Zhade]

82. "Let 'em get a little taste of what the victims of Katrina had" IS cheering it on.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

[coalition_unwilling]

119. Back when this country had a workable social contract, you would

probably never have heard me uttering such sentiments.

But with the social contract in shreds (as Katrina and its aftermath demonstrated), it's clear that advanced industrial captialism leads to a "dog-eat-dog" Hobbesian universe. And in that universe, my ethic is "show no pity to those who show no pity." Do you really think when Schwarze-nazi brings in the mercenaries of Blackwater to patrol the devastation in San Diego County that any pity will be shown or demonstrated to anyone with anything less than a behemoth SUV?

[lynnertic]

105. "Judge not"

You sound a lot like the people you disparage, pal.

[coalition_unwilling]

120. I am a lot like the people I disparage, except I'm on the side

of righteousness and social justice and they are not.

And you're not my 'pal.'

[lynnertic]

124. you sound self-righteous enough

Furthermore your idea of social justice as reflected in this thread is a beautiful example of 'ugly american'.

I'd still push you out the way of an oncoming train, though,

pal,

and I'd shelter you if your place burned down.

[ronnykmarshall]

61. That's repulsive.

So you know for a fact about these comments ... or did you just pull them out of your ass?

[coalition_unwilling]

70. I actually had people of the San Diego suburban ilk make those

comments (or their like) to me in the days immediately after Katrina. And, once the Corporate Whore Media started portraying the Katrina aftermath as a bunch of black "looters," that just allowed these racists' not-so-latent racism to find legitimacy.

These evacuees will merely be inconvenienced, they won't be allowed to die like Katrina's victims were. But feel pity for them??? Give me a break.

[ronnykmarshall]

80. Again did you go door to door and asked EVERYONE??

Damn 300,000 doors to knock on! Your dogs must be barking!

[Zhade]

83. So everyone should suffer because you talked to a few assholes?

How does that make any sense?

[knight_of_the_star]

84. So the actions of the few must lead to the suffering of the many?

How does this make you any different than BushCo?

[alstephenson]

98. Get a life, coalition....

No one asked you to "pity" the evacuees, but geez, where does this hatred for people in trouble come from? How about a little compassion?

The "suburban ilk" move to the outskirts of the county because the home prices are more reasonable than in the city. Give THEM a break, already. I think your anger is misdirected at these folks.

[coalition_unwilling]

121. The "suburban ilk" in the neighborhoods of St. Louis, Missouri

moved there so their children would not have to attend desegregated public schools. Then when a court order ordered busing between the city of St. Louis and the suburbs within St. Louis County, the "suburban ilk" (some of my regressive family among them) simply moved beyond the county lines.

So not all moves to the suburbs are strictly for economic motives. But I have not studied suburban sprawl in San Diego County, so I'll defer to your judgment regarding it.

[Throd]

103. You are a sad and loathsome little creature.

[coalition_unwilling]

122. I'm rubber, you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and

sticks to you (with apologies to PeeWee Herman)

[anitar1]

125. Hey Throd, click on ignore. It is easy.

I have run across this person before and decided to add him to my little list.Presto, no more crap.

[huskerlaw]

92. That's disgusting

You realize that our very own KitchenWitch has been watching the flames from her home today, right?

Does she deserve that because Orange County is heavily Republican (by California standards)?


...


...

...

:shrug:

[Riktor]

96. Fuck that

This is the most intense wildfire San Diego County has seen in decades. I'm hunkered down in my tiny-ass two-bedroom apartment, wondering if the office in which I work will still be standing tomorrow morning.

Rich republicans aren't the only victims here. Their houses were merely the first to burn. You are trivializing the danger in which over a million people, myself included, now stand, for the sake of making some pointless backhanded attack on attitudes which you can only speculate belong to a number of now homeless San Diegans. Would you like to trade places with me?

[NashVegas]

71. $500k for Less Than 1k Feet, That's Pretty Expensive

Many DUers may remember that infamous real estate San Diego listing for what was basically a shack in the wrong part of town.

I'd call that over-valued.

[Bobbieo]

14. What is really getting me IS that

all of the National Guard and people who should be helping out in these disasters - floods - fire - that are taking place all across our country are now in Iraq! These men and women should be home here in their own country where they are desperately needed

[Ian David]

44. We're fighting them over there so we can't fight fires over here. n/t

[bigworld]

15. I'm pretty sure their insurance premiums were high to begin with.

With the risk of mudslides, fire, and earthquakes, I assume that folks out there pay top dollar for home insurance. Any Californians want to confirm?

[kineneb]

26. sometimes

depends on what kind of coverage is offered. We, as an example, could get earthquake insurance if we wanted to pay a bunch more, but we cannot afford it. Also, there is a greater likelyhood of a volcanic eruption in our area, which is not covered by anything (I think). We have to have flood insurance since we live near a large lake... nevermind that it is very shallow, so if it floods, we have lots of warning... like about 5 village blocks worth.

Some people will have complete coverage, and lots will have the bare minimum. I imagine the people outside the big cities in SD county are of the latter variety. Terrain and plant cover also influence insurance prices.

Property values vary widely in CA, depending on location (duh). The farther away from a major city/resort area one is, the lower the housing prices, and often, the insurance rates. I looked on Google Earth, and Potrero, one of the town that have burned, is almost in the middle of nowhere, near the Mexican boarder.

[robinlynne]

32. That is the town where Blackwater is trying to build their new base, and the

entire town voted against it. strange you should mention Potrero.

[kineneb]

39. it just burned down- check other thread on LBN

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3037848&mesg_id=3037848

it is in SD county(or near)

[robinlynne]

42. I just read it, am in shock. and the fire is near the wild animal farm.

[Mojorabbit]

54. On my wildlife rehab lists

they are asking for volunteers to help evacuate animals.

[intheflow]

100. THAT's a disturbing piece of information.

Have they determined the cause of the initial fire?

[Gormy Cuss]

31. Earthquake insurance alone costs as much as homeowners in my area

and homeowners policies exclude earth movement from coverage (in other words, if your house is destroyed by a mudslide, you won't get a dime.) Earthquake insurance also doesn't pay a dime until the loss exceeds 10 or 15% of the house value. Homeowners coverage is much more expensive if the house is in a higher risk area.

In addition, every time there is a major catastrophe the building code is upgraded to mitigate damage to structures in earthquakes and fires.

[Ian David]

45. I'm sure the insurance agencies will say the houses were destroyed by wind damage...

and then burned-down after the fact, and then refuse to pay.

Unless some Republicker Senator loses his home.

[tired_old_fireman]

17. Why don't you wait until people are out of harms way

before you make your editorial comments?

People's lives are in danger and you're worried about your insurance premium? Most of these homes cannot carry fire insurance so it's doubtful they are effecting your premium anyway. If you have high premiums, it's probably much more a factor of corporate greed than anything.

[rodeodance]

19. and half of new orleans is still in ruins

[Marrah_G]

21. What a cruel thing to say

While you worry about some possible future insurance hike some DUer's are watering down their god damned roofs to try and salvage their homes.

You assume those 250,000 are all rich. They aren't.

And the poor animals that are caught up in this.

But thankfully your wife put it all in perspective for you.

[daninthemoon]

28. I don't want to see anyone hurt, or their animals. This scenario

will continue to replay every few years, as long as people continue to build there. I'm not just worried about my premiums, I'm also worried about the next time this happens, and people are again facing the same inevitable situation. So Cal is built up beyond safety concerns in many respects. You're probably right, not all those 250,000 are rich, but certainly the majority are, or they couldn't afford the scenic views which are now in flames. Still and all, I didn't mean to be cruel, and I humbly take your point.

[tired_old_fireman]

37. I don't think you understand

SOME of these homes being threatened and lost were built in area of predictably high fire danger. Others are much more of a factor of an unprecedented drought combined with extremely dangerous weather and arson. We're not just talking about mansions in the Malibu canyons. We're talking about apartment buildings and modest homes on the edges of cities.

This is an extremely volatile situation with the potential to become a whole lot worse.

[aquart]

29. Cruel, heartless, stupid, self-satisfied, sanctimonious, REPUBLICAN.

[daninthemoon]

43. Stupid, certainly. The rest not really. I do hearby shamefacedly

retract my premium remark. It was all the bad things I have read here. My point is that these areas will always have these fires, and will have them again after they are rebuilt.

[tandot]

22. All of the homes build in Tornado alley

With all the storm damages all the time, our premiums will go up and we have to help to pay for people to live in these untennable (sic) areas.

I've lived in SW OK for ten years and had more than one claim for storm damages to my house and to my car. It doesn't even take a tornado to do some major damage. Just straight wind gusts or one of those nasty ice storms will do.

I now live in Northern CA and don't mind paying for your right to live in tornado alley.

[girl gone mad]

74. Not a valid comparison.

At all.

[Fresh_Start]

23. a quarter of a million evacuating...

where are they supposed to go?

[aggiesal]

55. Evacuations are at ...

Del Mar Race Track. Huge facility.
Qualcomm Stadium. Huge facility.
Selected High Schools in the region.

Don't expect Barbara Bush to come by and say,
"This is a better situation for them anyway.",
like she did in New Orleans.

[Fresh_Start]

58. Isn't Qualcomm difficult to get to?

seems like there aren't a lot of street access and there's lots of construction near there

[xchrom]

24. what the fuck is wrong with you? -- these are human beings -- certainly not all rich --

being driven from their homes by a terrible disaster.

[aquart]

27. 250,000 millionaires, you think????

My diabetic sister with her husband who is losing his job next week is packing to leave their one financial asset, their HOME.

He's a nerd whose grant was slashed by our George. He's over 40 and hasn't found a new job yet.

As for permanent settlement, he's lived there all his life.

Rules of the board do not permit me to say what I think of you.

[MGKrebs]

30. Yikes, that's near Miramar too isn't it?

Lotsa jet fuel and stuff.

[robinlynne]

33. For every wealthy person there are at least 5 who are not. obviously.

[GliderGuider]

36. Liberty Belle is reporting on this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3037848

[lonestarnot]

40. Thanks GG

[bluethruandthru]

38. That's like saying all these fat people/smokers/motorcycle riders/

etc. etc. engage in these behaviors by choice and cause our health insurance premiums to go up! I guess in a perfect world everyone should live in a concrete bunker underground where they wouldn't be effected by weather or fire ..oh, but earthquakes could be a problem... Then no one would cause our insurance premiums to go up...right?

[Ian David]

46. The entire East Coast could be destroyed by a super-tsunami at any moment...

... if there is a landslide on some island off the coast of Africa.

We should stop living on the East Coast.

Also, the natural disaster that causes the most deaths are heat waves. We should stop letting people live places where it gets hot during the summer.

Also, more people die each year in Massachusetts from winter-related causes (cold, accidents on icy roads, heart attacks shoveling the driveway, etc.) than in any of California's recent earthquakes. We should evacuate Massachusetts every winter.

There really is NOT a safe place to live.

Heck, there's even a chance you could be hit by a meteorite or (much more likely) a piece of equipment falling off an airplane.

That's what insurance is for-- to (more) equitably distribute the (financial) risk.

[ContraBass Black]

73. I live in the DC area, not known to be particularly prone to any kind of natural disaster.

In the last ten years, my neighborhood has suffered a blizzard, an earthquake, a major hurricane, and a tornado.

[truthisfreedom]

47. I'm offended by the "eat the rich" attitude around here.

[MGKrebs]

56. It's not just the rich: So many here paint with a giant brush for many things.

Whether it's religion, or "centrists", or supporters of other candidates, or corporations, or lobbyists, or PAC's, or NAFTA, or less than perfect Dems... if there's a little bit of impurity then the whole thing is evil. It's a damned inquisition I tell ya'.

[DBoon]

57. And have a very low threshold for "rich"

Sometimes it reminds me of old sectarian Marxist types competing to see who can be the most proletarian


or as they said on SNL, "Que es mas macho?".

[Misskittycat]

48. Hey, we're not all rich. I'm a renter in a condo. I'm about a block away

from one of the areas currently being voluntarily evacuated. I'm packing up my car. This is serious and affects all groups and all classes.

[Sukie1941]

49. I own my RV and rent a space here in So Oregon

I have had to move my rig due to floods on the Rogue River. Nice thing is I CAN move my house!

So I recommend everyone, rich or poor, live in RV's! Can live here for at least a week self-contained!

My friends in Ramona left at 10 pm Sunday night and are living the life of luxury in a fancy motel 30 miles away (lucky for them they even found one!). But they are not rich. They believe their house is OK, but a relative is not so sure.

We also have tsunamis on the Oregon coast and No California coast. Friends lost a business at Crescent City, CA back in the 50's due to tsunamis.

We also have VOLCANOS! Big ones! Mt. St. Helen was actually a fairly small volcano.

You never know what's gonna get'cha!

[cliss]

50. Worst part:

the folks are on their own. The government is not able to help these people. It became obvious with Katrina, and a subsequent tornado which destroyed a town in (?) Arkansas?

The government is distracted with its own foreign policies, and it will not be diverted by a few problems at home.:smoke:

[mike_c]

53. folks just don't seem to get it about western forests....

This is a fire ecology, and worse, a fire ecology where NECESSARY fires have been suppressed for decades. Western forests are in poor health because of fire suppression-- we MUST let them burn. When people build in the canyons and forests of the west, the need to accept they fire risk that goes along with living there. We should NOT be preventing these areas from burning.

[Sukie1941]

59. I agree with you

I live in an area in So Oregon that has burned time and again. There are "hills" (mountains to some) on both the north and south of me and narrow roads in and out.

I have seen a ring of fire surround the Rogue River Valley in past decades, several times. We all know we are on our own to escape and that our property is vulnerable to Mother Nature.

[EFerrari]

60. I'm sorry those people went to all the trouble

of losing their homes and risking life and limb just to harm you and your wife.

Maybe we can take up a collection for you. :sarcasm:

[ronnykmarshall]

62. SNAP!

:toast:

[knight_of_the_star]

63. Please leave out the comments

This is easily worse than the big fires that happened four years back, this one could really get nasty from what I've heard from my sister they've evacuated pretty close to the coast up to Palomar Airport. If you aren't familiar as to where that is, here's a map to show you:



Its the spot on the map labeled Palomar with the airplane icon to make it easy to find just to give a point of reference of how bad it is. In 2003 the furthest west that was evaced was from San Marcos.

[knight_of_the_star]

64. Update

1:37 p.m. October 22, 2007

SAN DIEGO – Wildfires fanned by fierce desert winds consumed huge swaths of bone-dry Southern California on Monday, burning buildings and forcing more than 265,000 evacuations from Malibu to San Diego, including a jail, a hospital and nursing homes.

More than a dozen wildfires engulfed the region, killing at least one person, injuring dozens more and threatening scores of structures. Overwhelmed firefighters said they lacked the resources to save all the threatened homes.

More than 250,000 people were forced to flee in San Diego County alone, where hundreds of patients were moved by school bus and ambulance from a hospital and nursing homes.

“It was nuclear winter. It was like Armageddon. It looked like the end of the world,” Mitch Mendler, a San Diego firefighter, said as he and his crew stopped at a shopping center parking lot to refill their water truck from a hydrant near a restaurant.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20071022-1337-wst-californiawildfires.html

[ContraBass Black]

65. My best friend is currently volunteering at Qualcomm Stadium shelter.

She lives a few blocks away, and attends grad school at UCSD.

She walks and rides the bus because her car was totaled en-route to California. She drove there from Virgina because she couldn't afford to transport her possessions any other way, and even with insurance money, she can't afford to replace the car now.

I bought her bakeware and drinking glasses for her birthday because she couldn't afford to furnish her kitchen. She bought bar stools instead of chairs because she can't afford a table and eats dinner from her kitchen counter.

While she slept last night, I stayed up checking news sources and local message boards, plotting the course of the fires as they approached the city from the east and blocked the roads to the north, marking the points at which I would call and wake her up if the fire passed them and wondering how I would contact her if the power failed and the cell phone network crashed. I began measuring distances between the fire paths and their velocities, trying to figure out if she would have to evacuate to Mexico or into the ocean if it swept across the downtown.




It's a shame that all those people like her in their expensive homes are so inconsiderate of your insurance premiums.

[YvonneCa]

68. Thank you to your friend...

..ContraBass Black.

[ronnykmarshall]

85. God bless your friend.

Many of co-workers in San Diego are having to leave their homes.

But thank GOD they all have drivers and have lovely little vacation homes to go to. Why just the other day I gave Driver some leftover meat loaf.

It's so nice to help "those people" out once and a while doncha think?

Gotta run my Dom is chilled and I need a nice beverage.

Us RICH and SELFISH Californians hurt too. :sarcasm:

Seriously, thank your friend for me. I could be in the same situation easily as the folks in SD.

[YvonneCa]

101. Beautiful...

...:7

[YvonneCa]

66. Oklahoma...

...have you been to California? What is on fire is the southern part of the STATE. Is the whole of southern California untennable? That's a sad thought, as it has been my home since 1953. People are also evacuating from apartments. And a $500,000 home in San Diego is a 30 year old fixer-upper.

California is not Oklahoma...

[maddezmom]

69. Wildfires sweep southern California, troops called

Wildfires sweep southern California, troops called
22 Oct 2007 22:29:14 GMT
Source: Reuters
Alert Me | Print | Email this article | RSS <-> Text <+>

Background
Climate change
More (Updates with national guard called in, Bush offers help)

By Dan Whitcomb

LOS ANGELES, Oct 22 (Reuters) - Fast-moving wildfires roared across California on Monday and engulfed large swaths of San Diego County, where 250,000 people were told to evacuate as state officials called in National Guard troops.

More than a dozen fires, driven by gale-force winds, burned out of control across the drought-stricken southern half of the state, quickly charring about 200,000 acres (81,000 hectares), killing one person and injuring a number of others.

With fire crews and state emergency services overwhelmed, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said 1,500 National Guard troops had been summoned, including 200 from the Mexican border, to help with firefighting, evacuations and crowd control.

"This is a tragic day for San Diego County and for California," Schwarzenegger said. "As you know, 250,000 people have been evacuated."

more:http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N22551635.htm

[Cha]

72. I don't care if the people are

rich, poor, middle class or fucking randy cunningham's area..NOBODY should be gloating over people losing their homes because they're in a fire zone or a hurricane zone or a whatever zone. Nobody knows anyone else's circimstances and why they were living where they do.

I hope the winds stop and the brave firefighters are able to help all those people to safety!!

[knight_of_the_star]

76. Update

Just got this from a friend who lives down there. She says the cell circuits are currently closed down and only to be used for emergency purposes, the I-5 south of the 76 is closed to keep people from moving south from Orange County, the roads are all closed to facilitate emergency traffic. People are being evacuated from Encinitas, the only vehicles allowed on the roads right now are for emergency traffic. There are firefighters in Ramona working to keep the airport working so they can start dumping stuff on the fires but right now they can't get anything in the air because of the winds and the smoke.

[Tektonik]

77. how can some people be so ignorant

the OP and one other poster on this thread are forever ignored by me :puke:

[Riktor]

99. Fundamental Attribution Error

It is a common tendency for people to externalize their own failings while internalizing the failings of others. If some terrible calamity happened to the author of the OP, he would likely say "it was bad luck", or a "freak occurrence". Meanwhile, if my apartment burns down, along with all of my assets, it is my own damn fault for living in San Diego.

[huskerlaw]

86. Generalize much?

Yes, the houses are worth a lot of money, but they sure as hell weren't when they were built, and many of their occupants have lived in those houses since back when they were affordable to "regular" people.

Using your logic, I should be pissed off when my insurance rates go up after a tornado in Oklahoma. You shouldn't be casting stones from your glass house, my friend.

The reality is that the vast majority of people in the United States live in areas that are prone to one type of natural disaster or another. Sure, we're all affected when rates are raised after a fire or an earthquake or a tornado or a hurricane. But perhaps you should direct your anger to the INSURANCE COMPANY that raises their rates to ensure that their profit margin isn't affected, rather than the unlucky soul who just lost everything they've ever owned.

[robinlynne]

88. again? This post is from this morning. We are all offended by the way you talk,

and you post it again? as news? Get down off that high horse.

[daninthemoon]

114. No, I didn't.

[robinlynne]

89. Are the 3500 animals in the wild animal park millionaires too? Or the firefighters

who are risking their lives?

[allisonthegreat]

93. Not anything I would wish on anyone...

With those winds up it could burn the whole coast down.

[Riktor]

97. Bullshit

So you are saying the southern coast of California should be vacated entirely because of the danger posed by wildfires?

Let's see. I've lived in the Midwest, where tornadoes run rampant every summer. I've lived in New England, which gets pounded by some pretty severe Nor' Easters every winter. I suppose I could move down South, but then you have to worry about hurricanes. Perhaps the rockies? Ooops, forgot about severe blizzards. Hmmmm. How about the Northern states? On second thought, 50 degrees below zero is a tad too chilly for me.

Face it. You aren't safe anywhere.

[allisonthegreat]

102. Dark Side of the Moon, perhaps? n/t

[slackmaster]

109. Can you name a place that is not subject to any kind of natural disaster?

I'll bet you can't.

[daninthemoon]

115. Let's try this once more. My mention of "my" premium increase

was definitely thoughtless, ill considered, and unfortunate. It was not the point I was looking for. I very much regret both how it sounds, and the bad feeling it engendered. I started the thread to let people know how bad the evacuation was, and threw the rest on in too much a hurry. Unfortunately, my first thoughts were of places like Malibu, and I completely neglected to consider places like Ramona. I deserve a great deal of the ass paddling I received, but also found a whole lot of hate thrown my way. I guess I thought it went without saying that of course I feel for the people in the fire's paths, and I certainly don't think any are "getting what they deserve" as I've seen. I'm sure I should leave it there, but just a bit more.
Yes, I now live in tornado alley. For 35 years I lived in Anaheim, California. I remember many times in grade school, not being allowed outside for lunch or recess due to smoke from fires in the hills. I also remember "snowstorms" of ashes. Those hills burn as a part of their natural state. Back then, there were very few people living there, because of those dangers, and the mudslides which always follow a few months later. Some of the places that have been so over developed, will always have these problems. This does not mean the whole state, actually only a small part which is uninhabitable. Yes, we get tornadoes here, and others get volcanoes, tsunamis, earthquakes... Thing is, the chance of any particular house in tornado alley getting hit within ten years is very small. Chance of Mt Rainier erupting , or even the San Andreas fracturing within ten years is small. The chance of those southern California foothills suffering more firestorms is almost certain. There's just no way around that.
I hope this gets some of the hate off me. I'm really not a bad or even insensitive guy, though I absolutely understand why my previous post appears that way, and I am truly sorry for any and all offense.
More than that, I sincerely hope the storms end soon, and I truly feel for the people now suffering.

[LadyAziz]

104. Shit!

My sister lives there, I hope that she is safe.

[DrDan]

106. California has 6,000 Nat'l Guard in Iraq . . . plus equipment

Sure would be helpful to be in-state right now . . .

[Javaman]

107. And along comes blackwater...

they are leaving Iraq. cali needs troops...

[Lone_Star_Dem]

111. 500,000 ordered to flee California wildfires

LOS ANGELES (AFP) - Half a million Californians have been ordered to evacuate their homes and flee the spreading wildfires blazing across southern California Tuesday, US media reported.

The Los Angeles Times reported that the wind-driven infernos have destroyed some 700 houses and businesses and led authorities to urge some 500,000 people to leave their homes, mostly in the San Diego area in south-eastern California.

<snip>

Only one person has been killed and more than 20 people injured. Some 260,000 acres (1,000 square kilometers) have been destroyed in the fires, which are among the worst in the state's history.

Many parts of the state, including Los Angeles, have experienced record low rainfalls and record-high temperatures this year, leaving vast swathes of countryside at the mercy of fires.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071023/ts_afp/usweathercaliforniafire_16;_ylt=AvDEgqoxhaAE48nFfLJvu2us0NUE

[Crowman1979]

113. Let's hope they have enough water to put out the fires.

If the farmers haven't used up the majority of it for moisture intensive crops in the middle of the desert.

[allisonthegreat]

117. i thought all the national guard was deployed...

I guess they are calling up reserves....the natural disaster in California is terrible would not wish it on my worse enemy.