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PaulaFarrell Donating Member (840 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 04:53 AM
Original message
'Carbon sinks' lose ability to soak up emissions
Source: Independent, UK

A dramatic decline in the ability of the Earth to soak up man-made emissions of carbon dioxide, and a corresponding acceleration in the rate of increase of greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, have been detected for the first time by scientists.

The discovery that more carbon dioxide from human activities is lingering in the air rather being absorbed by the world's forests and oceans has alarmed scientists who believe that it signals a potentially dangerous turn of events for the global climate.

They fear that a much-anticipated "feedback" in the global climate – when increases in carbon dioxide in the air trigger further increases in atmospheric concentrations of the gas – has already begun to occur decades before many predicted.

"We always said that these feedbacks would happen in the future, but what this study shows is that these feedbacks are happening right now," said Josep Canadell, executive director of the Global Climate Project in Canberra, and the lead author of the study.



Read more: http://environment.independent.co.uk/climate_change/article3087271.ece



tick, tick, tick...
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 05:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. There is hope if we start to act now to increase efficiency of fossil fuel use.

More from the article:

The study also found that the amount of CO2 released into the air from human activities has accelerated in recent years not just because of the growth of the global economy but because, for the first time in a century, the efficiency with which fossil fuels are used has stagnated.

The study, published in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, estimated that the inefficiency in the use of fossil fuels over the past six years has increased levels of atmospheric CO2 by 17 per cent, while 18 per cent came from the decline in the efficiency of natural sinks.

Corinne Le Quéré, a climate researcher at the British Antarctic Survey in Cambridge, said that stronger winds in the southern ocean, caused by global warming and the loss of the ozone layer, has resulted in more dissolved carbon dioxide in the deep sea being brought to the surface, and consequently less carbon dioxide being absorbed from the atmosphere.

"This is incredibly important. It is bad news because we can't do much about these natural carbon sinks, but the good news is that we can increase the efficiency of fossil fuel use. I would say this is a wake-up call. Things are happening much faster than we expected," Dr Le Quéré said.

**********************************************************************************************************

The problem is that we cannot do much as individuals and the corporations who are the major polluters and the politicians they have bought do not care. How can we make them care -- and act?
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Delphinus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. I wish I knew the answer to your plaintive plea:
How can we make them care -- and act?

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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. We're not going to use less energy if we get more efficient
We will find other ways to use the energy that was saved. It's not going to just sit there. It can't, because we have to grow the global economy. How do you do that? Use more energy.

"The problem is that we cannot do much as individuals"

"the corporations who are the major polluters and the politicians they have bought do not care. How can we make them care -- and act?"

Seems like you answered you're own question.

The problem is that we think we can't do much as individuals. We've become so dependent on large organizations and institutions, that we've lost that important fact that corporations and governments only have the power we give them. In our quest for comfort and convenience, we've given over our lives to corporations and governments. Now, when we see that the two dominant institutions of our time are killing life, we don't know where to turn, and we can't stop looking to the corporations and governments.

We only have ourselves to blame. Whatever we come up with is going to have to be voluntary. We can't force a solution onto anyone. Forcing something will only make the problem that much bigger, and more complex. Now, any voluntary solution we come up with won't be perfect either, and will add in its own new problems(since there never has been, isn't, nor will there ever be a perfect state to existence). However, since our entire way of life was founded, built, and maintained through force, I'm not waiting to see this end nicely.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
24. I disagree that we only have ourselves to blame.

We didn't ask for all this. Industry and government made decisions, such as funding the interstate highway system and letting the railroads go to hell.

Almost everywhere, government's answer to heavy traffic has been to build more roads, add more lanes to the multi-laned highways, and to hell with the air pollution caused by all those cars. If all cities had good mass transit to and from the suburbs, that would cut down on a lot of the problem. There could be financial incentives to encourage people to ride mass transit rather than drive, or disincentives like the high cost of parking in D.C. or NYC. Building parking garages in cities encourages people to drive to town rather than ride. I grew up when riding buses into town and traveling by train, even by Greyhound bus, were common. I love to drive but I also love to read and reading and driving don't mix while reading and taking the bus/train/subway go together quite well, so I'd gladly give up driving on a regular basis. Others would be harder to convince, some people want to drive everywhere. Gas rationing would make them turn to mass transit. Our parents/ grandparents lived through gas rationing in WW II. We'd survive, too.

Do you have any real voluntary solutions that people can do? Besides the usual recycling and conserving that many of us have been doing for nearly 40 years?
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. Real voluntary solutions? That's crazy
Other than scaling everything down, no. That's not even pratical. Get rid of mass production. Get rid of centralized global states. Certainly do away with global commerce. Going after the cause, instead of just recycling the product. None of that is about to happen though, at least not voluntarily.

I know I'm as much to blame as anyone. My food comes from the store, I've never had to grow or kill anything myself. I'm pretty sure my clothes were made by a 7 year old girl in SE Asia. I'm sure all the chemicals that went into the TV's, computers, etc, that I've had over the years have messed up the DNA of some human or non-human somewhere. I've never had a car though, rarely use mass transit, have a bike but I mostly walk these days. I'm not perfect, and I'm just trying like everyone else.

You're right that corporations and governments actually create what we use. However, we still use whatever that might be. We want easy travel. We want instant communication. Unless we're all just mindless zombies at this point, we each have our share of blame.

It's a problem really without an answer. We can't stop, but we can't keep going. We'll try to harness more energy from the planet, but all that energy is already being used. There is no waste in nature. If we take more for ourselves, that's less for the rest of life. We keep trying to control more of life at every turn, and here we are. We can try, and probably succeed, in making the world fit us. There will be a price to paid for it(the loss of diversity in culture, language, craft, species...basically everything). That's where we're headed right now. One world, for one species, seeing and being in the world one way. Other than letting go(plenty of problems down that road too), I'm not sure how we get out of that.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. That's my point. What we do voluntarily makes little difference.

You said:

"Whatever we come up with is going to have to be voluntary."

so I asked what voluntary solution you could see besides the recycling and conserving that's gone on for nearly forty years now.

And now you say

"Real voluntary solutions? That's crazy"

so I'm not sure what your point is.

You seem to be saying A) solutions have to be voluntary but B) voluntary solutions don't work. If B is true, than A is impossible.

Government and media have been telling us to conserve and recycle for years as if we were the cause of all the problems, while giving corporations a free pass on their wasting of resources and pollution of the air, water, and earth.

The Industrial Revolution led most of our ancestors to abandon farming and trades or crafts -- try finding a village blacksmith, under a spreading chestnut tree or anywhere else. Mills started producing cloth much faster than it could be produced in the home, where the wool, cotton, or linen had to be carded and spun into yarn, then woven into cloth. Either the yarn or the finished cloth had to be dyed if color was wanted. Women continued sewing and knitting for a long time, making clothes for themselves and their family, but now all of these crafts are done for enjoyment, not out of necessity. People garden, hunt, and fish more for enjoyment than to "put food on their families." Having those skills could be crucial in the future, however, so learning now is a good idea.

Self-sufficiency is rare today. I think we will eventually be forced by circumstance to go back to living in small communities that are self-sufficient. It may be many years away but I don't see how globalization and the illusion of one world can continue for long. Sure, there is one world in the sense that there's one planet, but it's made up of a lot of smaller "worlds" and the different languages and cultures should be preserved. If we're going to continue global trade, we'll be doing it with sailing ships again. The upside is that if we use our brains at all, we'll keep the medical and pharmaceutical knowledge we have now so we can still have lifesaving surgery and antibiotics.

If fools in power (and I'm speaking of all the world's governments) don't blow up the planet in a nuclear war, we will get by. We may have better lives since we will belong to a community in a way few do today. There are people now living happily in small communities all over the world, without all the things we take for granted. We're living in a society that's very stressful, many of us spending hours driving to and from work. We spend money on things we don't really need, trying to fill an emptiness that may just be lack of community, lack of belonging to a place and a group.
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. I don't know, it sounds to me like you got my point
"You seem to be saying A) solutions have to be voluntary but B) voluntary solutions don't work. If B is true, than A is impossible."

We're not going to stop this voluntarily. We're long beyond that point. The immense power of centralization(as you pointed out) outcompeted anything on a human scale. We're going to do everything to try and keep going. We don't have a destination, but we're going to get there as quick as we can.

And I agree with pretty much everything stated in your last 3 paragraphs. That's what is in my head, I've just never been very good at putting that stuff down on paper(or screen). It's just that that type of world can't be forced. It can't be planned out. Well, it can be, but it wouldn't be the same.

Like you said, circumstances(I'm taking that to mean physical and ecological limits to existence) will change that(or force it). I'm alright with that, but I couldn't force someone else to be alright with that. I couldn't be the one calling the shots. I couldn't say that you have to live this way, or that you can't live that way. Sure, I have my opinions, but so does everyone.

I know I'm not going to stop this machine from churning. All I can do is try unhook myself from it as much as possible(it's a win-some, lose-some game...I'm only human), stay out of the way of it(again, same game), and take my chances when it stops on its own(because of circumstances). That is if I'm not dead before or during the power down process.

Either way, crazy world.
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proReality Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. When they begin to see their families suffering from the effects they might finally wake up.
About the only thing that might work is to make them feel guilty. But that's easier said than done.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 05:12 AM
Response to Original message
2. recommend
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Imperialism Inc. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 07:07 AM
Response to Original message
4. The link isn't working for me.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 07:41 AM
Response to Original message
5. But the earth can still soak up the NON man made emissions?
:shrug:
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PaulaFarrell Donating Member (840 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. I think it's saying that up until now
the excess emissions created by burning fossil fuels have been soaked up to a large degree by the earth, e.g. the oceans, which have until now acted as carbon sinks. Of course it doesn't matter where the co2 originates, but it is the man-made co2 which is throwing things out of balance
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Honestly, I think that too.
It's just that the global warming "deniers" will use that phrase as a reason to dismiss the article in its entirety (it's fucking seventy degrees in New England in late October, and none of the leaves have dropped from the trees where I live, and there are still tomatoes in the garden--of COURSE humans are having an effect!).
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. Feels like a 100 in AZ today. And CA is close to it.
Shouldn't we start manufacturing asbestos suits for summer wear now. :shrug:
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Well, in SOCAL those poor baastids can 'sing around the campfire' to boot!
That can't be helping this whole mess, either...
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
8. To many Republicans is the cause.
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happygoluckytoyou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
11. TONY SNOW HERE------>
blah blah blah greenhouse gases blah blah blah e-missions blah blah... i have spoken with his holiness george w bush, and he says that god says that if he didn't want global warming why would he have invented the sun! you and your so-called scientific fact based BUllSHit does NOT take into account that we of faith are simply going to get a bit warmer, and then go to heaven where we can sit at the feet of the holy trinity, Reagan, Bush, and Bush, and bask in their all-knowing glow. you and the wicca army of unbelievers are doomed to live in hell, now THERE is some global warming for your asses, where you can suffer with the unbelievers, Hillary, Billary, and that Obama guy...what the hell, you can have Mitt and Rudy too, wrong-believers that they are. we have a book, and that book is the bible, and the bible says that the bible is all knowing, and the copy of the bible that george w bush has includes a signing statement that says in case of an emergency, and if god does not have time to make a personal appearance, that the grand wizard dubya will speak in god's place.
this has been tony snowjob snow saying that anybody who disagrees with w, god, and the bible, is helping the terrrraist win
amen
in god we trust
anyone who is lying should suffer the pains of cancer
i'm gonna get on my dinosaur, now, and ride off into the sunset
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
12. I got Good News and I got Bad News...
The Good News? All those bastards who thought they could pollute the earth but evade the consequences will, indeed, live to see the fruit they have sown.

The Bad News? Well.....
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
13. until joe dumb bastard mouth breather earth inhabitant is directly
effected during his beer drinking football watching weekly binge, nothing will change.

While we all scream and yet, honestly, how much has actually changed over the past several years?

nadda, nothing, zip, zilch.

the various oil suckers of the world, that's you and me thank you very much, are using more than ever.

Weeeeee!!!!! Humanity has had a heck of a ride. We did some good things, but mostly we just found new and creative ways to piss each other off and kill one another.

It's time for the roaches and twinkies to take over.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. You're attacking the wrong people, people Democrats

used to care about and want to help: the poor, the working class, the under-educated.

You're also assuming the poor and working class don't conserve when they are more likely to simply because they can't afford to keep their homes at 68 º in summer and 75º in winter, they can't afford high water bills, and when they need money they go out and pick up aluminum cans and bottles on the roadsides.

The corporate "persons" are the problem, and the people who run them and profit from them. If the government stopped the legal fiction that corporations are persons and yet persons who pay no income tax, and stopped its incessant fueling of the war machine, it could do a lot to solve the environmental problems we face.

Think how much energy went into today's NASA launch. Are we really getting enough benefit from space exploration to justify it? Think about all the jets in the air today and every other day. Is there a better alternative? Think about all the power plants burning coal. Think about nuclear waste and you know that's not the answer, either. How can we live without electricity? It will require a return to a pre-Industrial Revolution lifestyle.

I guarantee you a lot of the "joe dumb bastard mouth breathers" you rant about are more likely to survive those circumstances than a lot of us. More of them know how to hunt and fish, how to garden, how to fix things, and how to do without.
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TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. OMG!!! Epiphany!!!! George W. Bush IS a fucking GENIUS!!!!!
poor and working class don't conserve when they are more likely to simply because they can't afford to keep their homes at 68 º in summer and 75º in winter, they can't afford high water bills,

Think how much energy went into today's NASA launch. Are we really getting enough benefit from space exploration to justify it?

Think about all the jets in the air today and every other day. Is there a better alternative?

Think about all the power plants burning coal.

Think about nuclear waste and you know that's not the answer, either.

How can we live without electricity?

It will require a return to a pre-Industrial Revolution lifestyle.


- George W. Bush is refusing heating aid to the poor. They will have to learn to conserve and make do with what little they have.

- George W. Bush has pulled major funding from NASA. He is putting undue pressure on the scientist to squelch reports. He has 2 reasons: 1) Wants the space program to fail because it is a major waste of resources and a major pollution producer. 2) He wants there to be little discussion of the outcomes of Global Warming.

- George W. Bush is making air travel so incredibly, stupidly difficult that nobody wants to fly anymore, reducing air traffic.

- George W. Bush is determined to keep control of Middle Eastern oil for as long as any remains. Theories and stories about Peak Oil have been increasingly in the news and if he can control the production, there is hope that he can control the amount used by the people.

- George W. Bush wants to return this country and possibly the entire world to a Pre-Industrial Lifestyle, an Agrarian Lifestyle, reduce the amount of waste and pollution people produce because they have been forced into drastic conservation measures.

He will be the Saviour of us all. And look at how we treat him......


BTW 100% agreement:"I guarantee you a lot of the "joe dumb bastard mouth breathers" you rant about are more likely to survive those circumstances than a lot of us. More of them know how to hunt and fish, how to garden, how to fix things, and how to do without."

I always laugh at people who think "artists" won't survive tough times. Artists are about the only people I know who actually know how to make things out of whole cloth. They know how to go hungry. They know how to make do.

Because as the saying goes: We have been required to do so much, with so little, for so long, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing.


My Favorite Master Artist: Karen Parker GhostWoman Studios
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. Wow, I must be a mouthbreather, because I hunt, fish and have a
half acre garden. perhaps then I will carry the torch to the future and teach the great beer bellied masses. :eyes:
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
14. Man...
If you thought the oil wars were bad, wait until the water wars start.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. "were" bad...???
seems to me that we've only had the one oil war so far.
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I'm counting Desert Storm and the Iraq Invasion separately.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. "Oil War I" and "Oil War II" (nt)
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Psephos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #20
28. So where's the effin' oil? n/t
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
16. Oops!
nt
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
19. The Earth can only absorb so much.
Thanks for the thread PaulaFarrell.

Kicked and recommended.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
21. This is it, folks--the beginning of the end.
When the Earth can no longer heal itself, it doesn't look good for any of us.

So long it's been good to know you!

I've sung this song, but I'll sing it again,
Of the place that I lived on the wild windy plains,
In the month called April, county called Gray,
And here's what all of the people there say:

CHORUS:
"So long, it's been good to know yuh;
So long, it's been good to know yuh;
So long, it's been good to know yuh.
This dusty old dust is a-gettin' my home,
And I got to be driftin' along."

A dust storm hit, an' it hit like thunder;
It dusted us over, an' it covered us under;
Blocked out the traffic an' blocked out the sun,
Straight for home all the people did run,
Singin':
(CHORUS)

We talked of the end of the world, and then
We'd sing a song an' then sing it again.
We'd sit for an hour an' not say a word,
And then these words would be heard:
(CHORUS)

Sweethearts sat in the dark and sparked,
They hugged and kissed in that dusty old dark.
They sighed and cried, hugged and kissed,
Instead of marriage, they talked like this:
"Honey..." (CHORUS)

Now, the telephone rang, an' it jumped off the wall,
That was the preacher, a-makin' his call.
He said, "Kind friend, this may the end;
An' you got your last chance of salvation of sin!"
(CHORUS)

The churches was jammed, and the churches was packed,
An' that dusty old dust storm blowed so black.
Preacher could not read a word of his text,
An' he folded his specs, an' he took up collection,



That's not dust, Honey, that's CO2!
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
23. not too surprised, isn't the ocean effectively dead?
there is a massive die-off of the seabirds because there is nothing for them to eat, the fish are all but gone and we are now eating farmed fish, acknowledged "dead zones" in the oceans are bigger with each passing year...you just never hear anything to lead you believe that the ocean has much left
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #23
32. The phytoplankton in the oceans produce

more oxygen, and take in more carbon dioxide, than the rain forests do. But they're so tiny, how could they be important? :sarcasm:

We need a reversal of the Industrial Revolution. The people, not the corporate giants, should have custody of the land again and stop being wage slaves.

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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
26. Deforestation and these enormous wildfires are undoubtedly an enormous part of it.
Edited on Tue Oct-23-07 05:36 PM by gulfcoastliberal
There have been enormous wildfires on almost every continent this year. It's absolutely chilling to see how few trees remain in what used to be vast forests/rainforests (edit: via google earth). And the fact that the bark beetles now live year-round due to the warming is also having a huge impact as entire forests die and turn into kindling.
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ronnie624 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
33. The phenomenon of global climate change,
Edited on Thu Oct-25-07 01:11 PM by ronnie624
is potentially THE killer of human civilization.

Several factors are rapidly converging, which are frightening in the extreme, and should, among an informed people, cause horrific nightmares.

- The melting of the polar ice caps, which reflect sunlight.
- The rapidly approaching concentration level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, at which point a "positive feedback loop" is triggered, creating an accelerating and self perpetuating cycle.
- The release of sequestered methane into the atmosphere from melting permafrost and ice at the bottom of the ocean. What will happen, with higher concentrations of a gas that is more than 20 times more potent, as a greenhouse gas, than carbon dioxide?
- And now, evidence of the biosphere's inability to absorb and sequester any more carbon.
- Add to that the rapidly expanding "dead zones" in the world's oceans, which cut at the foundation of the food supply for our species (and most others), and it scares the hell out of me.

If we, as a species, have any hope at all, it can be found only in the immediate, hasty and complete conversion from hydrocarbons, as a source of energy. Nothing else will work.
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Duppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
34. another kick for THE MOST IMPORTANT issue
Nothing tops this, folks. Nothing.

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