Clinton, McCain wins NH primaries, trailed by Obama, Romney

[rayofreason]

Source: AP

CONCORD, N.H. (AP) -- Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton won New Hampshire's Democratic primary Tuesday night in a startling upset, defeating Sen. Barack Obama and resurrecting her bid for the White House. Sen. John McCain powered past his Republican rivals and back into contention for the GOP nomination.

Clinton's victory capped a comeback from last week's third-place finish in the Iowa caucuses and raised the possibility of a long battle for the party nomination between the most viable black candidate in history and the former first lady, who is seeking to become the first woman to occupy the Oval Office.

McCain's triumph scrambled the Republican race as well.

Read more: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PRIMARY_RDP?SITE=WSAW&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

---

Edited by Admin to update story because this is on the home page.

[JoFerret]

1. Hanover result in?

Seems way too close to call. But - got to say....am not a Clinton fan but find myself pleased by the result. Maybe the premature coronation of any candidate was just distasteful. Truth is they are all too good for that.

[nyublue]

4. no, and did you hear Dewey beat Truman?

[Radio_Lady]

9. Neither college towns have reported, according to CNN.

I forgot my geography, sorry.

Hanover/Dartmouth and Durham/ is that Univ. of NH????

[matt819]

14. Exactly

Dartmouth (Hanover) and the Upper Valley will vote Obama. Durham is home to UNH and, subject to the extent of student voting, will likely vote Obama.

[rayofreason]

15. Hanover is Dartmouth.

Durham is UNH.

But with 72% reporting at 10:47, Hillary leads 39% to 36%. I don't see how Obama come back. In fact, he is conceding right now.

[last_texas_dem]

138. I feel the same way

I am slightly more of an Obama fan than a Clinton fan, but I was glad to see Clinton's victory; I'd rather an at least somewhat competitive series of primaries than a coronation. I didn't like it when the conventional wisdom, for several months before the first primary/caucus, was that Clinton was "inevitable" and it got on my nerves just as much, over the past few days, when people were already talking like an Obama nomination was an inevitability.

[peabody71]

160. STOLEN!!

Tim Russert just agreed with Brokaw and Matthews, that "this was the most stunning upset in the history of politics."

[OKthatsIT]

167. Exit Polls do NOT equal results...FRAUD is SHOWING AGAIN

Bev Harris (BLACK BOX VOTING) has announced that smaller townships, with considerable smaller voting numbers and where discrepancies are likely to be more apparent, are experiencing voter disenfranhisement.

Some Kucinich and Ron Paul votes were never counted. Voters complained their votes were not in the total figures...this showd up whn tonship tallies came up ZERO for Kucinich and/or Ron Paul.

[bluestateguy]

2. The race is still too close to call

I don't give a damn what the Georgetown Cocktail party crowd says.

[Born Free]

107. Teaching the People to trust the machines, not the POLLS

At one time, the polls were pretty close to being accurate, but these days they continue to show us the voting machines can and will produce results far different than the polls suggest. It's a type of mental conditioning all Americans are currently receiving, never-ever trust the opinion polls, trust the machines. Everyone needs to be prepared to accept results that are far different than even exit polls may suggest. Oh yeah, be prepared for "Dewey vs Truman" statements any time someone suggest there may be more to the huge discrepancies than meets the eye. or better yet, being told to get out the tin foil hat. Ten points difference, no problem, 15 points difference, no problem; anything can happen and we all must trust the machines. No paper trails, no recounts just trust the system.

[onehandle]

3. Clinton wins NH

Source: AP

CONCORD, N.H. - Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton won New Hampshire's Democratic primary Tuesday night in a startling upset, defeating Sen. Barack Obama and resurrecting her bid for White House.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/primary_rdp

---

Congrats to Hillary and her supporters!

[onehandle]

5. Congrats to Hillary and her supporters! nt

[Radio_Lady]

10. Polls just a few hours ago showed a 10 point lead for Obama!

[rayofreason]

31. The polls were wrong.

Don't trust them. They can be manipulated. Also, a very large number decided who to vote for in the last 24 hrs. Polls don't capture that.

[Radio_Lady]

40. Yes, I know. You're talking to the choir... a 68 year old woman who is dry behind the (y)ears!

:rofl:

[Bretttido]

6. If Edwards decides to stay in the race...

He will become the new Ralph Nader... diluting the progressive vote.

[JoFerret]

8. Who is the progressive here then?

Neither Obama nor Clinton imo.
You must mean Kucinich.

[McCamy Taylor]

12. Don't even go there. Edwards is Edwards. Everyone else is 2nd best.

If we had nominated Edwards in 2004, we would be out of Iraq now.

:dem:

[Radio_Lady]

43. Well, you may be right about that, but it looks as if many people don't agree with you.

[frogcycle]

21. clearly he should go skulk in a corner

and stop interfering with the coronation
damn, every time I start to warm a little bit to Obama one of his supporters pipes up.

Maybe OBAMA is THE new Ralph Nader. maybe if he would go skulk in a corner we could have a progressive candidate who would win and do what he says

or maybe the process should be allowed to go past two small states and let people cast a fucking VOTE without the Obama Greek Chorus chanting "shame, shame"

[yardwork]

141. Obama's team definitely needs to work on the p.r. skills of his supporters.

I have to say, many of the Obama supporters on this board at least are some of the rudest posters I've seen.

[rhett o rick]

24. What?? Edwards is the progressive. nm

[last_texas_dem]

140. I don't believe the evidence supports that

I am a liberal who supports Edwards, but the exit (or was it "entrance"?) polls in IA indicated that his supporters spanned the ideological spectrum. I believe he actually carried the votes of the conservative Democrats attending the caucus. I haven't seen strong evidence that Edwards dropping out would give any sort of strong boost to Obama.

[Heywood J]

159. What an asshole.

Ditto on the comment that anytime Obama seems electable, his supporters always come out like assholes to balance it out.

[Radio_Lady]

7. AP cites win; so does MSNBC (from another thread). CNN holds back.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PRIMARY_RDP?SITE=KVUE&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[Frisbee]

28. But...

What is Fox saying? :evilgrin:

[merwin]

47. FOX declares Bush the winner

[Radio_Lady]

55. ROFL. Tell me you're NOT watching FOX... really!

:rofl:

[Frisbee]

156. I have Fox Noise ...

Blocked from the channel line-up on my Tivo. I couldn't watch it if I wanted to without a bit of work (not that I'd ever want to). Occasionally, my Tivo would record something on Fox on it's own, and I didn't want to give them the benefit of even one additional viewer for their ratings, so I just removed them altogether. That's what I think of Fox. :)

[matt819]

11. Hogwash

More than 215,000 votes to be counted (both D & R), and decidedly Obama towns - the Upper Valley, for example - have yet to show results.

So far the difference between Obama and Clinton is accounted for largely by two towns - Manchester and Nashua, with Obama winning just about everywhere else or running pretty much even.

So this report is utter nonsense, at least coming as it does with only 65% of the votes reported.

Obama will win or will be neck and neck with Clinton, and his support will be demonstrably broader than that of Clinton. On top of that, when Edwards and ther others drop out, as will be inevitable, IMHO, their supporters are not shifting to Clinton but to Obama. Of course, that means nothing in the primary, but the point is that this is not Clinton territory except in a couple of cities.

[JoFerret]

19. Whatever the eventual vote count

...a great night for Clinton. And well deserved.

[petersjo02]

13. I'm an Edwards supporter, but

after all the media crap Hillary has endured (e.g., Chris Matthews), I say you go, Girl. Get some sleep tonight.

[rhett o rick]

25. Bull puckey. Hil gets lots of media attention. Edwards is totally ignored. nm

[emilyg]

77. Thank you.

[Ronnie]

146. Ditto

...

[kimsterdemster]

16. great..

love the change:

bush clinton bush clinton:crazy:

[rayofreason]

17. Obama is conceding now.

Live at 10:49.

Good speech so far.

[Up2Late]

39. Conceding??? IT'S JUST ONE PRIMARY IN A TINY STATE!!!

Get a Grip! Conceding.:eyes:

Btw, I'm a long time Hillery supporter, so IN YOU FACE ALL OF YOU Obama people who couldn't keep from bragging last week!:rofl:

[Mistwell]

44. Calm Down Beavis

All he meant was conceding this state primary, not the election :)

[rayofreason]

49. Conceding NH

But nothing else.

And I think you knew that. And also, after Iowa, I always posted to the effect "Don't count her out".

[kelvinyany]

18. Hillary! Hillary! Hillary! Hillary! Hillary!

I am so proud of her.

Hillary! Hillary! Hillary! Hillary! Hillary!

[Radio_Lady]

72. You know what? I'm proud of all of the Democrats. Remember?

"ANYBODY BUT BUSH... OR ANY REPUBLICANS"



THIS IS ABOUT NARROWING THE FIELD TO A TWO-PERSON TICKET...



THIS IS ABOUT NARROWING THE FIELD TO A TWO-PERSON TICKET...

[sushi]

79. If I could vote

I'd vote for Hillary! As a woman, I would like to see a woman in the WH.

[Radio_Lady]

149. At 68 years of age, I'd like to see BOTH a woman and a black man in the WH.

Anybody else thinking of a Hillary/Obama ticket? It could happen.

But happened to the old chestnut: "Age before beauty"? Think I'll leave that before opening any other doors.

[Voltaire99]

20. I won't congratulate her, as I won't vote for her.

I'm not terribly surprised her Bush-lite message appeals to NH -- it's the eastern seaboard, technocratic and monied, with a long Republican history that has been courted assiduously by the slimy DINOs. That Obama polled well there is a statement about his corporate-safe status as much as Hillary's vulnerability. Edwards' populism doesn't play in an area that knows it will have to foot the bill for reform (and rightly so).

Enjoy it while you can, Hillary. If it comes down to the convention, the party will be given a choice by progressives: abandon this regressive politics or we leave you to curdle in it alone.

[Radio_Lady]

53. We'll see, Voltaire99. Polish up your crystal ball... I think you'll need it.

Please tell me you won't vote Republican in November.

Just stay home.... unless you can support the eventual Democratic ticket.

In peace,

Radio Lady Ellen in Oregon

[ekwhite]

130. There are other parties on the ballot, Ellen

I will probably vote Green rather than vote for Hillary. I can't stomach her votes for Iraq and her inability to say that her Iraq vote was a mistake. I would rather vote for a true progressive rather than be sucked into another false choice.

[yardwork]

142. This is Democratic Underground. One of the rules is that we support Democrats.

If you advocate for a third party candidate over a Democrat, you will not be allowed to post here. Those are the rules.

[NBachers]

91. Nice Condescending Post

Snidely McSneery

And would you have described the NH population the same way if Obama or Edwards had won?

I thought not.

[The Backlash Cometh]

22. I think that McCain and Clinton won, says a lot about that state.

[JoFerret]

109. Working class vote

...seems Hillary won that. Affluent middle class vote - seems Obama did.
Says a lot about NH.
But WHAT exactly?

(Happy for Hillary. Maybe this process will have an interesting effect.)

[The Backlash Cometh]

123. If you appraisal is correct, then I would say that would explain, a lot.

[connecticut yankee]

23. HEY!!!

These are only two small states. There are forty-eight others.

Super Tuesday is in a month!

Don't count your chickens -- so much more can happen until the Convention.

I don't know why everyone is so excited.

[rayofreason]

27. I agree...

...Feb 5 is the big day.

But if Hillary had been smashed with the double-digit lead for Obama some had proposed, she would be dead in the water. All the money and endorsement would flow to Obama. Now people will not be so sure.

[fearlessrick]

34. Another stolen election

I can't believe nobody has mentioned how we all went to bed last night with all the polls giving Obama a 10-point lead. NH uses all proprietary software (see BradBlog for more on that) and Diebold DREs.

We've just witnessed another stolen election. Obama should have won easily, but the difference between him and Hillary for the Republicans is simple. Hillary can be beaten. Obama would probably have to be... eliminated.

Pay attention, people. These votes are all rigged and we'll never get our democracy back until we get rid of the machines.

[rayofreason]

35. What bullshit, spreading FUD

Is that the sound of tinfoil being shaped into a hat I hear?

[mojowork_n]

48. Not necessarily, I had the same thought and posted down-thread n/t

[Mistwell]

37. I disagree

I disagree, and think it's a tad insulting to all the Clinton voters who voted today. NH had an 80% turn-out, which is unprecedented and not contemplated in any way by the polling companies. That fact completely wipes out polling data handily.

[pnwmom]

76. Those polls had all been conducted before the "Hillary cries" MSM assault.

I bet that a lot of fence sitters -- female ones -- decided in her favor during the last twenty four hours.

EXIT polls are historically extremely accurate. Other polls are less reliable when predicting behavior, because voters can change their minds up till the time they're in the booth.

And some new or independent or otherwise "soft" voters may not even have made it to the booth. Maybe there was some over-confidence in the Obama campaign.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

132. I know in my own anecdotal way I was ready to vote for her to

piss off the Chris Matthews of the world. Even though I'm rooting for Edwards, as I've said over and over, we women know, at a visceral level, the unbelievable level of BS crap she is having to endure for being a female in the man's world of national politics.

And, when the predominantly male pundits started piling on, I can completely understand, as a woman, going into the booth and saying to myself, screw the good old boys, in a manner of speaking :P, I'm voting for her.

Mi dos centavos.

MKJ

[JoFerret]

170. Dead right with the sexist crap

Obama will get lots of comparable stuff.

I think it was an op-ed by Gloria Steinhem in this week's NYTimes that focussed on the sex versus race as a factor in this stuff. Worth a read. Asked the question: would a female Obama be making it as big?

[Patriot Abroad]

98. er, welcome to DU!

and you might enjoy spending some time on whatreallyhappened.com, where everything is a conspiracy . . .

I hope and pray that the democratic process has not been subverted so much that the New Hampshire primary is manipulated . . .

[karlrschneider]

102. It is my unfortunate duty to point out that you are full of shit.

...

[anniebelle]

108. When I went to bed there was a 4 point lead.

Sounds like you stumbled off the Joe Scarborough "idiot" train. The pundits of this country turned that Obama lead around with all their vitriol against the Clintons. I'm an Edwards supporter myself, but I was feeling the urge to get on Hillary's bandwagon.

[JoFerret]

110. No evidence for that. None

This was a very fluid situation with lots changing.
Maybe people made their minds up when they actually had to face the final moment. Happens. Am sure loads of women gave a second thought right at voting moment and said - Hillary. This time around at least. She had the crap yesterday and all the sneering about being emotional in public. Maybe many people said - hey, she needs a break right now.

Exit and entry polls would be a more reliable judge that polls taken days or even hours before.
So - we know we need to watch election fraud, voter suppression and machine malfunction and tampering BUT - paranoia and cynicism do not help.

[leftynyc]

124. Unless you have some proof, I

suggest you just keep quiet. I can't believe your first post was for this.

[jmondine]

67. Exactly

Don't count your chickens until the eggs are in one basket.
Or... something like that.

[rhett o rick]

26. Once again the progressives are ignored. Here we go, status quo forever. nm

[Cant trust em]

30. Don't despair

Clinton only won by 3%. Unless you were rooting for Edwards who got summarily trounced.

[rhett o rick]

33. I was rooting for the progressive, you should know who that is. nm

[merwin]

92. Kucinich?

[rhett o rick]

136. I was referring to Edwards. He is a top runner but the corp media is ignoring him

The corp media likes Obama and Clinton, sort of scary if you ask me. DK is my first choice and Edwards second.

peace

[Cant trust em]

29. Wow.

This primary season is a wha? wrapped in a who'da thunk it tucked inside a never woulda guessed it.

[Mistwell]

32. Indeed WOW

I am shocked. Obama went in 9 points ahead, and came out 3-4 points down. That's a 12-13 point mistake in the polling!

[Cant trust em]

61. Are you ready for me to tell you something you already knew?

Pollsters don't know shit.

[mojowork_n]

36. WTF?

Could this have been a bait and switch?

All the cable news channels had Barack up by a lot, in non-stop coverage all day, featuring poll result after poll result.

Encouraging "independent voters" to wander over to the Republican primary?

In 2000, Bill Bradley "lost" to John McCain, because of the same phenomenon, people wandering over to the Other Party, trying to make their voices heard in the most effective way.

[Mistwell]

41. Not bait and switch just wrong polls

Nope. There were FEWER Republican voters than predicted, and MORE Democratic voters than predicted. So that's not it.

The polls were wrong because turn-out was 80%, which is unprecedented and completely negates all polling data because they didn't account for it. The polls were looking at likely voters only, which is people who voted in the prior election or prior two elections. But that turns out to be not a representative sample when you have turn-out in these numbers.

[mojowork_n]

105. So ALL the polls were off? Nothing to see here? (Move along.)

It can't believe that it's not still extremely suspicious.

If any likely voter had turned into the cable news channels before going to cast a ballot, they would have seen data that showed the election was already decided -- with an Obama win. It was the top story of the day, and repeated over and over again. (With, admittedly, some curious variations in the predicted margin of victory.)

Under those circumstances, why not cast a ballot for the slightly less repulsive Republican candidate?

[Stewie]

139. Yes, ALL the polls were off.

They all use the same sampling models and methodology. When that's flawed, they're all off much like if some factory makes busted engines ALL the cars will break down.

New Hampshire voters like to be contrarian. Perhaps they decided they were being TOLD they must vote Obama by the MSM and felt insulted.

[JoFerret]

112. Wow! 80%

Best news of all.
There is hope.

[JoFerret]

111. This level of cynicism and conspiracy

would be funny if it weren't so destructive.

[Dover]

38. Interesting that on Charlie Rose, guest Bill Clinton, when asked who he saw

being strong on the Republican side, said he thought McCain would do well. Charlie nearly fell off the chair and kind of shook his head like..."huh?!". But he didn't pursue it. This was a few weeks ago and Bill was on promoting his book and his wife.

[Radio_Lady]

42. What did that show air? I didn't see it... maybe I'll find it on www.opb.org

Thanks for the information.

[Dover]

45. Don't recall exactly...maybe two or three weeks ago?

He was promoting his book and discussing his wife, politics, etc.

[Radio_Lady]

50. Thanks. I found it at www.charlierose.com

12/14/07

www.charlierose.com

Thanks so much.

:hi:

[Dover]

60. Oh great. I was just about to post this link to the archived page:

http://www.charlierose.com/search?q=bill+clinton&searchTopic=-1&searchFromMonth=MM&searchFromDay=DD&searchFromYear=YY&searchToMonth=MM&searchToDay=DD&searchToYear=YY&searchFilter=bill+clinton&searchType=guest

The comment was toward the end of the interview.

[Up2Late]

46. BOOYA! IN YOUR FACE All you Obama people who couldn't keep from bragging last week!!!

OooooW! It Burns, doesn't it!:woohoo: :rofl:

[JimGinPA]

51. If Hillary Gets The Nomination Now...

We'll have at least four more years of a Republican President.

[rhett o rick]

52. Sen Clinton is my last choice, but I still think your post is irresponsible. If she wins the

nomination, we will alllll work for her in spite of what I might have said in previous posts.

[JimGinPA]

56. Regardless of what you think

There is no way she can win a general election. This is a sad day for all progressive thinkers.

[Eric J in MN]

68. Yes, she can.

People know the economy was better under Bill Clinton than under George W. Bush.

I'm a Kucinich supporter, but Hillary Clinton can win if she's our nominee.

[Cardboardurinal]

94. Clinton...

meaning Bill in this case did not do much for the economy. He came in at the most convenient time to look good on the economy. He came in when he was able to downsize the military and the internet bubble brought a lot of revenue into the country...I don't see where Bill had much to do with economic prosperity given the way the 90s worked out. In fact, I believe that Bill is part of why the Bush economy is so bad...I am not saying that Bush isn't mostly to blame. I am saying that Clinton's deregulation of industry and his endorsement of free trade impacted the economy negatively that had a delayed effect.
So please stop praising Clinton for having done the things that made the 90s "prosperous," because he didn't actually do much!

[JoFerret]

116. LOL. Funniest post of the day.

.

[ExPatLeftist]

127. Prove it.

"...And I know it is true cuz Rush told me so."

Funny how people making this argument will then often turn around and explain why Bush IS to thank for the "great economy" under his reign...

And don't forget...
Clinton was to blame for the 9/11 attacks (which occurred almost 8 months after he left the presidency)
Clinton was also to blame for the first WTC attacks (which occurred about a month after he became president)

Eat the cake or keep it. Can't do both.

If only logical fallacies were dollars... (Well, I guess they are to the likes of Fox News...)

[The_Counsel]

145. RE: Clinton...

"So please stop praising Clinton for having done the things that made the 90s "prosperous," because he didn't actually do much!"

Riiiiight...

...as soon as you stop giving Ronald Reagan credit for the collapse of the Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War. :crazy:

:eyes:

[JoFerret]

114. Go drown your sorrows in cynicism and despair.

...And leave the rest of us alone.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rhett o rick]

62. Hi radio_lady. I must agree with you. One thing about Democrats, we fight a lot among ourselves

but when the chips are down, we will fight together against tyranny and the gullible republicans.

ps: I was raised in Portland and went to college in Corvallis. Go Bevs.

[Radio_Lady]

69. The Republicans are our opponents, but it will be a trek to get to November.

We are transplanted Portlanders. We arrived here bag and baggage from Boston, Massachusetts in 1998. It's the state where my husband was born. I had moved to Boston from Miami, Florida in 1972 -- had lived there off and on since I was born in PA.

We love Portland, which is truly a COMPROMISE for us. We spent more than 50 years on the East Coast, so it was a BIG CHANGE and I still miss New England.

In our family: Wife loves cold weather; husband loves warm weather, and so do daughter and her husband. Go figure... The vote was 3 to 1...

We had just a few choices in the West, because hubby and son-in-law are both software engineers. Silicon Valley was out (too hot in summer for me), so we concentrated on the Pacific Northwest.

It was either Seattle or Portland, and Portland won when both guys got jobs here.

We are now retired and travel to warmer places in the wintertime (AZ, CA, HI, NV, FL mostly) as members of the Hilton Grand Vacation Club timeshare group.

In peace,

Radio Lady

[rhett o rick]

71. Portland is a great town. We live closer to Seattle though. nm

[Radio_Lady]

73. Husband had a contract software job in Milton, Washington in 2000.

That's south of Federal Way, WA.

We rented a cute little one bedroom apartment, lived there four days a week and went back to Oregon for a three-day weekend. It was fun to live in that area from August 31 to December 31 of that year. Husband then took a job in Vancouver, Washington, which lasted from January to August 2001, before the company went bankrupt! He was forced to retire that year and I had no real prospects for full time work, so I retired too. Since then, we've been volunteering, traveling, and spending time with our grandkids.

We love Seattle and go there any time we can.

In peace,

Radio Lady

[JoFerret]

113. You wish maybe?

It ain't so. Even though the gender barrier is a very tough one.
But you know - women are here to stay. Get over it.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Radio_Lady]

58. Boy, that's a positive post. Tell me, Scarface 2004, who DO you support in this election?

Thank you for letting us know.

Sincerely,

Radio Lady in Oregon

[Name removed]

104. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Binka]

59. My Ex Is From NH And He Is The Biggest Asshole On Earth..A Narcissistic Shit Bag

That is all I know of the granite state. My opinion of the state is most definitely skewed. It spawned fuck dog the home wrecker. The voters must all be his relatives. :evilgrin:

[olddad56]

66. So.. why would you marry A Narcissistic Shit Bag?

especially if He Is The Biggest Asshole On Earth. What were you thinking?

[Binka]

74. I Never Married Him

And by the way thanks for the nasty response.:sarcasm: He seemed perfectly wonderful in the beginning, and I am not a kid I was a 40 year old woman when I met him. I found out he was still married the week I found out I was pregnant with our child. He was a master manipulator and con artist. If you ever have the groovy chance to meet someone like him I hope she kicks you in the balls and takes all your money. What a fucking ignorant thing to say to someone who has been abused and fucked over by an absolute lying asshole. Ignore for you dip shit.

[Radio_Lady]

81. Binka, I feel sorry for your situation, but is it fair to judge a WHOLE state from one person?

My ex-husband is dead, and he acted like an asshole with me for most of the years we were divorced.

But he lived in the beautiful state of Vermont with his wife (my kids' stepmother) and our two kids for several years. Although it was painful, I did my best to see them in their home and school as much as I could. But I didn't dump on the whole state of Vermont just for that! That is just totally illogical.

[Binka]

83. Jesus People I Said My Views Were Skewed

And I put the evil grin on my post. I do not hold the entire state of NH responsible for this. JESUS. Get a grip.

[Radio_Lady]

87. No worries. Sorry. I didn't notice the EVIL GRIN. Maybe it should have this one:

:sarcasm:

In peace,

Radio Lady Ellen in Oregon

[JoFerret]

119. Ridiculous

.

[reggie the dog]

101. NH is beautiful

the mountains, the quaint small towns, the woods, the farms, and a few beaches as well. I met lots of nice people while on vacation there.

[JoFerret]

117. Thank you for your thoughtful pov

NH has done us all a favor.
Too bad they didn't give Edwards a bigger nod but interestingly it seems the working class vote went for Hillary.

[robcon]

63. Great news. It'll be an exciting time until Super Tuesday.

A great month ahead, as the Obama/Clinton dog fight will be very entertaining. Either person will make a great president.

[JimGinPA]

64. I couldn't disagree more

I just don't see Obama playing dirty enough (like the Clinton machine will for sure now) to come back from this. He'll just be a footnote in the story of how the Democrats lost another presidential race.

[Radio_Lady]

75. I find your posts disruptive and disagreeable. Who DO you support?

See my previous post about you upthread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3130371&mesg_id=3130468

Please provide some sort of positive input.

FYI, I'll be thrilled to find out that you really feel as if you belong at the DEMOCRATIC Underground.

Thank you,

Radio Lady Ellen in Oregon

[JimGinPA]

84. I Would Have Supported Obama

But, I live in one of the reddest counties of Pennsylvania. Our Primary is April 22 - by which time this will all have been decided. I have been a volunteer for our sad little Democratic Committee since Gore had the election stolen from him. When Hillary becomes the party choice next month, I will no longer do so.

[Radio_Lady]

88. Well, sorry you feel that way. Our primary is a mail in vote in May 2008.

I don't know what you have against Hillary, but certainly unless Barack Obama withdraws from the race, you can still vote for him. He is a young man and he can be encouraged by votes like yours. Remember -- these are just TWO SMALL STATES that have voted so far. This has to progress to a later point before we can put a ribbon on it, don't you think?

I share your consternation about not being in a state where a vote counts at primary season.

Just as a reference, how would you feel about a Clinton/Obama ticket? How about Obama/Clinton?

Stranger things have happened!

In peace,

Radio Lady Ellen

A Pittsburgh, PA native (at least until age three!)

[Apollo11]

100. We should all support the nominee.

Let's get some perspective here.

After the Convention, everyone needs to get behind the nominee, whoever it is.

We don't need 4 to 8 years of Huckabee or McCain or Romney or Giuliani.

If Obama doesn't win the nomination in 2008 maybe he will get it in 2016.

[Radio_Lady]

150. Hear ye. Hear ye. "If Obama doesn't win the nomination in 2008 maybe he will get it in 2016."

Agree.

[Venceremos]

80. Obama plays dirty, too...

Obama played pretty dirty when running for the US Senate here in Illinois, albeit he did it from "behind the scenes" so alot of people were unaware of it. That aside, I'm doubtful that he can hold up under either the Clinton or Repub attack machines.

And since we're apparently required to state our candidate affiliation in this thread - I'm behind Hillary all the way. She is capable of holding up under the Repub attack machine as she's already been through the fire.

[JimGinPA]

85. Against Keyes????

laughable

[Venceremos]

86. You apparently have limited knowledge of IL politics....

I meant Obama played dirty against Blair Hull in the Dem primary and Jack Ryan in the general. The Chicago Tribune just happened to dig up dirt on both candidates messy divorces when they were running against Obama. The Obama campaign “worked aggressively behind the scenes” to get the stories out and it destroyed both opponents campaigns. At least one of the Trib reporters admitted the Obama camp was involved after the election was over (and after Obama repeatedly claimed to have run a clean campaign).

And for reference, Blair Hull was beating Obama in the primary before Hull's divorce problems went public. Jack Ryan was Obama's original Republican opponent. At the Obama camps urging, The Trib forced open Ryan's very messy divorce files -- it eventually led to Ryan having to drop out of the race in disgrace. Then the national Repub party brought in Alan Keyes as a replacement - no need to play dirty against that pathetic joke.

[Radio_Lady]

89. What does it do to show IL(L) will to another Democrat with a put-down?

I know more about Oregon and Massachusets politics than you do! What exactly is your point? You don't like Obama? Fine. Who do you support based on your background?



Politics makes strange bedfellows (and we better include other genders and races now). All candidates will have to be prepared to have the skeletons in their closet examined and exposed.



We are trying to achieve civility and consensus in this process. Thank you.

Radio Lady in Oregon

[Venceremos]

90. Take a pill...

And if you bothered to read my posts...I support Hillary.

[Radio_Lady]

148. What? I'm only reacting to your general negativity about these candidates.

I rest my case.

I'm not going to continue to search your posts for hints of your "fairness" --

Sincerely,

Radio Lady in Oregon

[nevergiveup]

115. Like the Trib needed the Obama camp

to urge the investigation of Ryan's "very messy divorce files"? Gimme a break.

[pink-o]

144. That would be the Jack Ryan

who was married to Jeri Ryan? (She of Voyager/Boston Public/Shark fame). I remember those divorce files: he forced her to go to sex clubs and engage in demeaning acts, et al. The reason it was so sensational is because Ryan was a typical weasel, running on "family values" platform, only to be exposed for the classic Repig hypocrisy he was harbouring.

If Obama's camp forced those files open, they did the Illinois voters a huge favour! Ryan was a sanctimonious hypocrite right up there with Vitter, Foley and Craig

[JoFerret]

121. He'll do so well against the GOP then right?

nonsense anyway.

[AnnieBW]

65. NOW it's a race!

I'm sick of hearing the "Hillary is in trouble" shit. The M$M is just DYING to tear her down.

[LeFleur1]

70. The MSM...

...still won't admit they don't have ESP. They are sitting around saying, "Wha Happen?"
Here's what happened. YOU DON'T HAVE ESP.

[Radio_Lady]

78. LOL. The mainstream media are eating crow tonight.

About time they got a comeuppance.

Luckily, I'm among mostly Democrats when I volunteer in radio.

[ekwhite]

131. I'll agree with you on that one

I'm tired of the MSM anointing our chosen candidate before the voting even begins. So far, we have had two contests. Obama won the first, Clinton won the second. There are 48 more states, including my home state of California, left to go.


PS: I'm an Edwards supporter.

[frog92969]

82. Where were the people?

Where were the anti-war people?
Where were the pro-impeachment people?
Where were the anti-PNAC people?
Where were the anti-AIPAC people?
Where were the anti-corporate people?
Where were the un(under)-insured people?
Where were the people who despise the "Patriot" Act?
Where were the people who want their rights back?
Where were the people the who want the rule of law back?

Did they suddenly stop caring?
Did they borrow Conyers and Pelosi's calculator and say "we don't have the votes"?

This was probably a death blow to Kucinich, but he's the only one who's earned my vote (w/Gravel).
1.4% :wtf:


Another good question-
Did Diebold have the new Clinton software? Two neo-cons win New Hampshire (no tin foil needed).

[clixtox]

95. Perhaps they are afraid, very afraid...

Although the possibility of vote counting chicanery influencing the surprise outcome has to be seriously considered.

Our corporate masters are desperate to keep control of the situation here in Amerikkka as much as, or probably more, than everywhere else.

Lying, cheating, murder, and even monstrous, murderous war crimes, all committed in our names, are everyday activities to further their global hegemony.

Keeping us playing the futile politics game is an integral part of the scam.

Suckers!

Wake up, or roll over and show your belly and just how defenseless you are, maybe you will get a bone, maybe....

[frog92969]

97. We got the bone alright!

They don't call him Dick for nothing.

[Tarc]

129. Didn't take long for the flakes and nuts to appear this morning

with their :tinfoilhat: conspiracies.

[frog92969]

134. Thanks for your support

:puke::patriot:

[Tarc]

135. No no no, thank YOU, Kucinich flag-bearers

All 2 of you.

[clixtox]

147. What a stupid remark...

Is someone paying you to act like an ass?

Why bother to make a comment like that???? To alienate those with whom you don't agree?

If you don't have anything substantial, or at least humorous to add, why bother?

Displaying your arrogant ignorance is not appreciated and your motives are suspect.

Your embroiling comment smacks of divisive, childish tactics to obfuscate the truth and sidetrack considered discussion.

Go back under the bridge where you live and lurk, existing only to ambush honesty and attack the truth.

Beat it...

[Tarc]

154. go tell it to someone who cares, please

Cause that sure as shit ain't me.

I didn't vote for Clinton yesterday, but I am sure as hell tired of all the bashing of her that went on here over the past week. And now that she actually WON here in NH, the calls by some here at the DU of vote-rigging and conspiracies and such is disgusting, childish, and extremely petty.

In short; zip it, newbie.

[JoFerret]

169. Agreed

...when things don't turn out the way you or we prefer it it is not always because of something suspicious or illegal. not all conspiracies are real. sometimes you are just in a minority or not in the mainstream. Doesn't make you wrong. Doesn't mean there's always a conspiracy plot.

My read of the political situation is that yesterday's results are not actually surprising. Except to pollsters who only look at the snapshot of numbers.

[frog92969]

173. "zip it, newbie"

513-265=DU veteran.

"the calls by some here at the DU of vote-rigging and conspiracies and such is disgusting, childish, and extremely petty."

Because that never happens, right?

[JoFerret]

168. Comment on target IMO

.

[SIMPLYB1980]

157. They voted for Clinton.

[frog92969]

175. Possibly

I just thought more people would be against the Iraq occupation.
With 70%(?) against it, this outcome defies reason.

[T_i_B]

93. Went into the Newsagents this morning...

...the papers (The Independent especially) were all calling it for Obama on their front pages.

Just goes to show that ASSUME makes an ASS of U and ME doesn't it?

[frog92969]

96. No,apearantly Diebold and M$M may have made asses of us all-w/links

NH Primary: Pre-Election Polls Wildly Different Than Results Announced for Clinton/Obama
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5530

NH PRIMARY DISINFO ALERT: 'Problems' with Paper Ballots in State Inaccurately Reported by National Mainstream Media!
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5529

[sss1977]

99. Whenever polling is wildly different than results, things need a closer look.

I wish people cared more about the importance of fair elections. Things aren't only broken when the person you support loses. If you've watched Hacking Democracy, you don't need any damn tinfoil to smell something wrong with these results.

[mojowork_n]

106. Exactly. Too bad those same great folks who brought us the poll numbers

...are the same ones we have to rely on for a second look at what was going on.

[Apollo11]

103. Here's the front page of today's The Independent (London, England)

To be fair, they had to finalise this while people in NH were still voting.

[T_i_B]

122. Yes, I imagine there are a few people in Canary Wharf...

...with VERY red faces today.

[Apollo11]

126. To be fair, the text says that Obama was in a tight battle

It was a close race and Obama and Clinton both won the same number of delegates (which is what counts).

[T_i_B]

176. But "tight race" is not the impression you get from that front page is it?

I must admit that I really do wish the Independent would drop the sensationalist stuff on the front page.

[droidamus2]

118. Wait and see

I support Hillary but I would have no problem voting for Obama or Edwards in the general election. Though the results in NH are different from the pre-primary polls I think we need to wait and see the 'statistical' analysis of what happened. Three things that could have effected the result 1) Same day registration 2) Larger than expected turnout 3) Ability of Independents to vote for either parties candidates. One and two sort of go together if you have a lot more people registering on voting day they may have not been considered by the polls and a larger than expected turnout of people 'not expected to vote' could make a difference as well. I think the Independents are the big swing as they are also people that probably wait until the last minute to make up their minds. Also, from interviews with citizens of NH that I heard they seem to be real proud about making up their own minds, ignoring Iowa and ignoring the MSM. So this may have been somewhat a backlash from the attempt to give Obama the nomination after his win of 1 more delegate in Iowa than Hillary received. Looks like this is going to be a real interesting primary season and I hope Democrats and a lot of independents and maybe even a few Republicans can get behind the Democratic ticket no matter who wins the nomination.

[formercia]

120. More Kabuki Theater from the faux US Primaries. n/t

[MCMetal]

125. Did Anyone Catch McLame's Victory Speech .....?

Did you all witness Frankenstein McLame's victory speech last night ?

Holy shit ; he's the only one I've ever seen who makes Chimpy McFlightsuit appear to sound like a seasoned Shakespearean actor ......I was laughing so hard I almost vomitted upon my own boots.

[ExPatLeftist]

128. Yeah, one of the most poorly delivered speeches I have ever seen. NM

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

133. My early Valentine to Sen McCain.

Posted in GD last night. :-)


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2634306

MKJ

[Radio_Lady]

152. Son of Cain hugging the Paltry President. It's burned in my brain...

Thanks.

[stevietheman]

137. What was startling about it?

Hillary got a narrow victory with Obama close behind, and NH has a history of volatility at the last moment. I wasn't surprised at all.

But the corporate media really needed to play up the victory of their favored corporate Democrat, that much is obvious.

[nickdisagrees]

143. I live in Iowa...

On the half hour drive from my caucus precinct to the Obama rally, the results started coming in, and at that point the candidates were within four percentage points of one another. We listened on the radio, and they all said "It looks like Iowa is all going to come out in the wash. It's basically a tie."

When Obama finally spread out his lead, they had no choice but to acknowledge he won.

But when HILLARY is winning, 3 percent is a decisive victory. The people of New Hampshire have SPOKEN, and they want a corporate lawyer, wife of a governor, wife of a president, and senator from a state she isn't from to be their president! Nevermind the fact that she's the wrong woman for the job, she's a woman who might become president. HOW EXCITING, RIGHT?

Bill needs to shut the fuck up. I would take the "biggest fairy tale" he's ever seen over the macabre, crooked, privileged tale of his wife.

I'm a lifelong democrat and I will never vote for Hillary Clinton, in any election, even the general one. I also know I'm not alone.

[Radio_Lady]

151. Are you really a Democrat if you say that you will never vote for a Democrat for President?

"I'm a lifelong democrat and I will never vote for Hillary Clinton, in any election, even the general one. I also know I'm not alone."

So, you will plan to vote for WHOM?????????????

Perhaps you can reduce your meager post count from 2 to ZERO (by being banned or asking to be tombstoned). Then it will be easier for all of us to do what this website is designed to do -- support DEMOCRATS.

Skinner said it best recently. In case you don't know it, Skinner is the OWNER of this website and you post here at his discretion.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3978352

Thank you, and have a good day.

[JimGinPA]

153. A LOT of Democrats will NOT vote for Hillary

[Tarc]

155. Then you really don't belong here

I'm sure the Greens or the Libertarians have forums to support their candidates. If in the end this comes down to Clinton vs. Huckabee or Clinton vs. McCain, if you're not here to support the most progressive of the choices, then you really do not belong.

I think Obama and many of his supporters are immature gits, but he would still be leagues better than the GOP alternative if he wins the nomination, and I would vote for him in November in a heartbeat.

[nickdisagrees]

162. Re: Then you really don't belong here

I wont support them because I am a true progressive. I wont vote for them out of protest of their perversion of my party by the DLC, etc.

[JimGinPA]

164. "You're either with us or against us"...

Why does that sound so familier? Hmmmm...


While Obama is bringing new, young exited people, indepedants and progressive (or just anti-war) repubs out for him, Hillary is a divisive politician in our party and she will keep red states red by uniting repubs.

[Tarc]

165. There is no one more divisive

than an immature "if my candidate doesn't win, then I won't vote for anyone else in the party" type.

[nickdisagrees]

161. You're pathetic.

If you're more comfortable serving as a flaccid accessory to the party, I'm sure there are cheerleading forums available on the internet where you could find better advice on how to be an anemic motivator for whoever is chosen to lead you.

While I don't post much on here, I do read it frequently, and I find this site more useful for the content that relates to discussion about the actual direction of the democratic party. "Support(ing) Democrats" is a two-way street. You may be comfortable with validating the unduly powerful elite sect of this country/party to which Hillary belongs, but I'm not supporting someone until they're supporting ME in return. The last thing I need is another Clinton or Bush administration to continue to sell me and the rest of America out to corporations and foreign interests with continued NAFTA-ization.

If that, coupled with my *GASP!* LOW POST COUNT, makes me unpopular here, then so be it. Just realize that you're to blame for maintaining the status quo that everyone around here seems to despise, and that while I was fighting for real democrats, you were trying to tell me that my post count somehow invalidates my argument, while allowing the 20+ years of the Bush/Clinton monarchy to endure.

Sad, really.

[JoFerret]

171. Hope you all enjoy how that turns out for you.

Wondering if "purists" like you understand how politics works?

[nickdisagrees]

174. Perhaps for once...

...the democratic party elite will be forced to take notice of the fact that by betraying their constituent democrats, they have marginalized themselves to the right of those who put them into power, and are undeserving of our votes.

Maybe then we'll get a candidate who is worth a shit, instead of the terrible one they're currently forcing us to accept.

The only thing I wonder about you is if you're not too dumb to know better, how do you sleep at night? Your vote for corporate puppets like Hillary only shows that you're willing to accept whatever they send down the pipe, and only emboldens them. That's alright with you? Really?

[OKthatsIT]

158. POLLS & RESULTS DO NOT JIVE in NH

Bev Harris is finding anomolies all over NH.

[Freddie Stubbs]

163. The exit polls and the results do jive

[OKthatsIT]

177. You're not listening

[SIMPLYB1980]

166. Check this out.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2639218

[OKthatsIT]

179. That's a joke, right?

If you're rigging an election...you can rig it up and down all the channels in media, too.

The obvious shows up in low percentage votes. Such as Kucinich or Ron Paul or Thompson or Gravel.

People call their election boards complaining that their votes didn't show up at all. Such as, an entire famiy voted for Kucinich. When the towns votes were sent to the election board...those few votes were never included.

[JoFerret]

172. Irrelevant

.

[OKthatsIT]

178. Can't disagree with your mainstream reaction ,there....