U.S. Senator Wants to Revoke Funding From City of Berkeley, Calif., for Vote to Boot Marines

[OneAngryDemocrat]

Source: FoxNews

WASHINGTON — U.S. Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C., says the City of Berkeley, Calif., no longer deserves federal money.

DeMint was angered after learning that the Berkeley City Council voted this week to tell the U.S. Marine Corps to remove its recruiting station from the city's downtown.

In the meantime, a senior Marine official tells FOX News that the Marine office in Berkeley isn't going anywhere.

"We understand things are different there, but some people just don't get it. This is a part of the military machine that gives them the right to do what they do, but what they are doing is extreme," the official said.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,327466,00.html#

---

Senator DeMint should concern himself with properly representing the good folks of South Carolina, rather tahn butt his nose into the affairs of people 3,000 miles away.

It's them darned activist legislators, again.

I s'pose it's easier for him to face the angry mob in Berkley, than it is to face the loved ones of the fallen, in S.C.

Please visit my anti-war website, www.shockedandawful.com

[jody]

1. DeMint's intentions make sense to me. Like or hate the way Bush has abused and misused his

authority as commander in chief, the U.S. needs highly qualified young men and women to serve in our military forces. That means either a drafted or volunteer force.

Congress has chosen a volunteer force and there is no reason why any city, county, or state should be allowed to refuse recruiters an opportunity to do their job.

[atreides1]

6. Highly Qualified???

You are joking right? Like the autistic boy that the Army tried to recruit? Or the fact that more waivers based on criminal records have been granted?

They don't want highly qualified, they want cannon fodder.

You're right Bush has abused his power, so much so that the "Highly Qualified" military forces can't defend this country from an attack!!!!!

[jody]

7. Please don't judge a service's recruiting programs by a few scandals. If one takes that approach,

I could probably uncover one or two unsavory incidents in your past and condemn you. :shrug:

[atreides1]

31. Nothing I'm ashamed of

And being condemned by the likes of you doesn't bother me, I'll just do like my First Sergeant used to tell me "consider the source".

We had a saying in the Army, it takes 100 attaboys to make up for 1 oh shit, and with the admission of the criminal element into the highly qualified military the oh shits are beating out the attaboys.

By the way it's more then just a few scandals, what about recruiters doctoring tests or sleeping with teenage girls, but I guess in your "Highly Qualified" military it's okay, as long as it's only a few. Gee, I wonder what you think of the soldiers at Abu Ghraib, or Mumadiya, there's evidence of being highly qualified. If you consider torture, rape and murder a qualification!!!

But I waste my time discussing this with the likes of you, you're convinced that you're right and everyone else is wrong.

I've read your threads before, if this were 1930's Germany the Gestapo would be waiting for me at the train station, or do you like the NKVD better, not really much of a difference!!!!

[jody]

33. Have a nice day. n/t

[ohio2007]

99. Don't worry about him

ever visit the veteran forum ?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=259
yeah

the lack of posts speaks volumes.

Reading between the lines, it shows just how unwelcomed and unaccepted vets are by the more progressive unthinking members of this DU board. I've seen active and vets alike come in,post, and never return.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=259x10856
hmmm

/eom

[jody]

110. I visit the Veterans forum often and occasionally post. Have a nice day. n/t

[ooglymoogly]

16. Your argument would have a leg to stand on if

this war were legal. Did you ever stop to think that Berkly, a city of very smart people might justly consider letting anyone proselytize an immoral and illegal war on their doorstep is akin to treason. Standing up for what is just and right has to start somewhere and I say cheers to Berkley.

[jody]

32. Whether the war is legal is not the issue. I oppose the war perhaps more than you but I also know

the U.S. must have an active military prepared to protect our nation's interests.

I also know even if we are lucky enough to have a Democratic president for the next four years, we must keep forces in Iraq for nearly a decade to provide air cover, perhaps five or more years to provide helicopter support, and a logistic support cadre fairly large initially but declining in number over the next decade.

Unless we go to a draft that would probably tear the country apart, we have no choice but to continue with a volunteer military force.

Regardless of special cases that are raised including the low education levels for some troops, there are many military positions that require above average IQs. For that reason, it's necessary that recruiters be allowed to do their job in every city.

I'm sure many disagree with me and that doesn't bother me. I am confident that if the next president is either Clinton or Obama, she or he will agree with me as the new commander in chief.

[ooglymoogly]

39. All that said, the issue at hand is that we are in an illegal war

and people recruited in Berkley will almost surely be sent to Iraq to serve as cannon fodder for that illegal war. History will show this to be a highly illegal invasion of a sovereign country for the propose of stealing its recourses for the politically connected. To argue that our soldiers should be sent to support this war is indeed short sighted and anyone recruited at this stage will most certainly be forced to commit war crimes. If this country were facing a real danger then a draft would be immediately instated and men and women would be right to serve that cause. No matter how many straw men you posture there is no good argument for sending any American to die in a treasonous war.

[jody]

40. What straw man do you believe I made? n/t

[boricua79]

45. so tell it to go recruit

in Martha's Vineyard or Coco Plum Florida, or Key Biscain, etc.

Plenty of rich white, yellow Republicans to staff our "much needed" military.

Take it away from places it isn't wanted.

[jody]

52. How do you propose to recruit personnel for our military services? n/t

[boricua79]

53. tie it to political opinion

if you're really pro-war, and you're really pro-military, then you REALLY got to serve.

That's how I'd do it...though it will never become law.

Much easier to wage a propaganda campaign about being "an army of one" or "being America's Finest" or "being the best you can be", or whatever else they come up with, and wait for the hordes of poor and gullible to sign up.

If it were up to me, I'd station recruiting office in neighborhoods filled with pro-war types, and I'd start by putting them in the neighborhoods of rich, yellow-elephant, Republican chickenhawks...then after they've been recruited, target poor, redneck, NASCAR-loving, prowar neighborhoods, and keep going down the line until you've got enough soldiers to do the dirty work for the corporate leaders of this nation.

Just don't bring them around MY kids.

[jody]

54. So you prefer others serve to protect you. Is that correct? n/t

[boricua79]

57. I'd prefer they'd ask me if I NEED their protection

The day that's the case, it's the day I'll be cool with the Marines.

Wouldn't have a problem with them if they'd ACTUALLY be fighting in our DEFENSE, rather than our IMPERIAL OFFENSE.

You've bought into the "we protect" mantra. I don't. In fact, THOUSANDS of Latin Americans like me Don't buy into that. We didn't get "protected" by YOUR soldiers in Latin America throughout the 1900s. We're a little more HIP to what the Marines are all about, considering we've been on the other side of your bayonets. Read some history.

[jody]

59. I understand your intent, let others do the dirty work. Goodbye! n/t

[boricua79]

60. nice argument ender

My intent is to be a part of the movement of people who will force this government and its military to start changing its imperial ways. And if helping a town rid itself of the imperial recruiting station helps to jumpstart this issue to national debate, great news! It starts with people saying "ENOUGH of our young being used for imperial wars".

As for the dirty work, let those that ADVOCATE the dirty work actually do it. Goodbye! What are you doing debating with me on DU? You've got better things to do...like signing up for the Marines you so strongly defend. Go, go, go, soldier...go go go!

[boilinmad]

102. Bravo !!!....

.....:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Hannah Bell]

73. HIS dirty work?

More like Bush's. Or the ruling classes'.

[pink-o]

77. No, Jody: that's what Bush and (5 deferments) Cheney are doing n/t

[lumpy]

78. The only US interests being protected are economic and

political interests.

[Quantess]

80. So...how do you feel when people say that College Republicans should enlist?

Does that get on your nerves? Curious.

[jody]

84. I oppose the war in Iraq and continued troop deployment in Afghanistan. I also know the U.S. must

have an effective, efficient military force to protect our nation and global interests.

The solution agreed to by a bipartisan Senate and House is a volunteer force.

I've served with troops who graduated from every top university in the nation and degrees up to PhD.

Don't let ignorance and hatred blind you, The U.S. military is the only super power in the world and if necessary we could destroy any nation or group of nations who attack us although some scenarios, e.g. nuclear, would leave the U.S. and world devastated.

I hate war but, I know that we must have a standing military.

If you disagree, I can live with that and that view is a minority view today.

[Quantess]

85. I feel that the US troops are being mistreated by the current government.

I have only respect for these brave men and women, and I am grateful for their service. However, I would question the sanity of anyone who would enlist at this time, especially if they are opposed to the Iraq and Afghanistan occupations. But it seems there are just as many chickenhawks as there are new recruits.

[jody]

86. Sad fact is a majority of senators and congresspersons are chicken-hawks. Another sad fact is once

congress is misled by a rogue president into passing a law the commander in chief can use as cover for misuse and abuse of our military, it becomes almost impossible for congress to pass another law overturning the first mistake.

A rogue president can veto any bill that would curb his/her authority and with the collusion of either 34 senators or 146 representatives the veto will be sustained.

That's just the way things are today, any bill congress might pass reining in rogue bush will be vetoed and his veto sustained by either the senate or house. In other words, at the moment the hands of We the People are tied with our constitutional form of government.

[Caretha]

87. I suggest you enlist.

as you say...."go do the dirty work" so no one is doing it FOR YOU!

[jody]

93. Have a nice day. n/t

[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jody]

97. Have a nice day. n/t

[clixtox]

107. Protect us? From who? The North Koreans? Iranians? Apaches? Canadians?

Just like they are currently protecting us from Iraqis?

Complete and utter BULL SHIT!

The only terrorists they are protecting us from is the ones they have created by design like Al Queda and those recruited as a reaction to our heavy handed, illegal policies.

Our armed forces haven't protected us from any actual enemies since WW2.

Our ridiculously expensive military is there to intimidate the rest of the world and nothing else.

Our rich and super rich corporate masters need the military for many reasons, protecting us isn't even on the agenda.

Them yes, us, no!

Our military is more likely to be used to enforce martial law to further subjugate us than ever be needed to "protect" us.

We die and send our children to die or possibly to survive but be damaged forever.

Only ignorant kool-aid drinkers today could possibly still believe such feeble propaganda.

Is that you?

Blindly following illegal orders, committing war crimes, massacring innocent civilians and facilitating the wholesale theft of others' resources, along with wasting vast amounts of our own resources, is their mission.

True in Vietnam, Panama, Grenada and now in Iraq.

Where is the military machine going to strike next?

Shock and awe!

How sad for the world and for each of us,

Our karma must really suck.

[jody]

109. Have a nice day. n/t

[Zhade]

89. "Protect our nation's INTERESTS"?

When did that last word slip in to change the definition of the military's duty?

Face it - the military hasn't protected us since WWII.

[jody]

94. You and I interpret history different. You imply you don't care how high the price of oil goes.

That's just one of the basic resources that make our life style enjoyable but of course you are a "survivalist" and able to exist without the international economic cooperation modern society requires.

Have a nice day. :hi:

[boilinmad]

103. We're there...

...to keep the price of oil down? Huh? Thats not what I was told!!! We went there to get rid of that mean Sadaam Hussein and his nucular weapons.

[ima_sinnic]

104. wow--1 million or more Iraqis slaughtered so we can have cheap oil

--well, we all knew that was the real reason for invading a defenseless sovereign nation, despite the blatant lies and misinformation we were fed.

how nice it must be to have no twinge of conscience, no humanity, to condone such a thing. You feel nothing at the sight of orphans, of mutilated corpses, disease-infested water, streets in rubble--because you have cheap oil!! Oh--but that is "international economic cooperation"--your euphemism for torture, murder, rape, plunder, and mayhem. Not to mention obscene profits. I suppose you also feel that, if the people down the street have a wide-screen TV and luxury car and you want them, it is well within "your interests" to murder them for those things.

welcome to my Ignore list. Your contribution to this board is simply to raise people's blood pressure.

[sendero]

92. Nothing our military has done for ages..

... is in the interest of America. Pull your head out.

[jody]

95. Nothing? Have a nice day. n/t

[sendero]

100. Name one..

... Afghanistan and Kosovo ok.

Vietnam? Not a chance. Gulf I? No way. Grenada? Puhlease. All the bullshit we pulled on Iraq in the 90s, nope. The current Iraq "war"? An emphatic, vehement, and frankly unarguable no.

On balance, the military of the US is used to do all kinds of things, the majority of them not in the interest of the average American citizen.

What's worse, the pentagon is so politicized now you cannot trust a word they say. If you ever could.

These fuckwit republicans are all about "state's rights" and "local control" until it is one of their pet issues. Gotta keep getting free cannon fodder, if we start a draft THIS SHIT WILL COME TO AN END IN A HURRY.

[jody]

101. For a start, fighting with allies to defeat the Axis in WWII directly benefited the U.S. as well as

the UK, France, et al.

That military action is well within the time span to respond to your assertion "Nothing our military has done for ages is in the interest of America."

Facts show the Democratic controlled Senate and House supported Vietnam, Gulf I, and Grenada as legitimate use of U.S. military forces to protect U.S. interests based on information available at that time.

[sendero]

106. I'm talking abou IN MY LIFETIME.

You have to go back to ancient history to find a good example.

And I don't give a RATS ASS who supported the actions at the time, they were WRONG.

[jody]

108. No sweat, just as long as you recognize that both Dems and Repubs were involved in the conflicts you

cite.

Have a nice day.

[Arugula Latte]

113. "to protect our nation's interests" -- When, pray tell, was the last time that happened?

When has our military last been used to protect us vs. going on the offense to further U.S. corporate interests at any cost?

[Zorro]

76. Illegal? No. The war in Iraq is not illegal.

Bush's misadventure in Iraq was sanctioned by Congress.

Immoral? Yes. Bush had a hidden agenda, and lied about his reasons for going to war.

This is just another Berkeley sideshow. The Marines will only leave once they're good and ready to leave, and not before.

[EFerrari]

22. Bullsh#t. Right now the "job" of a recruiter is to organize our kids

into a meat grinder for no purpose but to enrich Bush cronies. That's their job.

On the other hand, seeing as how here in California we put in more in federal taxes than we get back, maybe it would be a good deal.

KEEP IT. We're keeping our kids out of the blender.

[jody]

34. I disagree, a recruiter's job is simply to recruit volunteers into one of our services. Their jobs

will not change even if Clinton or Obama become the new commander in chief.

Anyone who thinks Clinton or Obama possess magical powers so she or he can solve all the problems facing our nation that require military power without a modern force is IMO living in a fantasy world.

[boricua79]

46. right...

it's just "their job" to be a mindless recruiter for the military machine.

Just like it was "just their job" for a regular German soldier to kill for Hitler. Hey, it wasn't them that made the decisions, right? They just bayonated prisoners and gassed Jews...just following orders...just doing a job...


just, just just...

same mindless mentality and passing the buck

I blame the leaders AND those that let themselves be used as part of the machine that is causing us problems. I blame them all...all the way from the president and generals, to grunts like Lynddie England.

How come some of us are smart enough to avoid being involved with an institution like the U.S. military? Go recruit in places where the military is SO loved....white, rich, suburban neighborhoods filled to the brim with jingoistic, patriotic, stupid sonabitch chickenhawk yellow Republicans.

GO GET EM!

[jody]

51. How do you propose to recruit personnel for our military services? n/t

[boricua79]

55. read post #53

or you could always call up all your warloving friends, and ask them to serve. God knows you must know a few...because I don't.

ANd while we're at it, how about closing down the sprawling empire of military bases around the world. If they're not on U.S. soil, they're NOT needed and they SHOULDN'T be needed. Would save us a lot of money too.

I'd betcha a lot of people wouldn't have a problem with Marine recruiting stations if they felt those soldiers would have one job and one job only: to defend the homeland. But sadly, that hasn't been the case since 1945, and some people (myself included) are tired of supporting the imperial war machine that allows for us to invade at will.

So unless it changes its ways, screw the marines. I'm one of those Latin americans who DOESN'T have much fond memories of them.

[jody]

56. read post #54 n/t

[boricua79]

58. already did and already replied

too fast for you friend.

[EFerrari]

71. I could never vote for either, so please cross me off that fantasy list.

And no, recruiters know damn well what they are recruiting FOR.

You want your kids to go into the meat grinder for Bush's cronies, that's cool.

We don't agree to that. They can have our kids when they take them out of our cold dead hands.

[jody]

82. Do you support a draft instead of volunteers? n/t

[INDIA]

75. Do you (or anybody else on this thread)

understand what a Marine Corps Officer Selection Office does? These guys aren't "duping" kids or trying to find cannon fodder. This is a highly competitive program with a high washout rate that requires a college education and intense physical training to complete. Candidates can drop out of the program at any time up to their commission, if they aren't asked to leave training first for not living up to USMC officer standards, which are quite high.

If this was your average joe Army recruiting station, your lame argument(s) would carry slightly more weight. Read the article. Get educated about the different branches of the military and the difference between enlisting and commissioning. And I WAS a Marine Corps Officer Candidate about two years ago. One of our smartest candidates came through the Berkeley OSO, he is in flight school right now. Rumor was that he got a perfect score on his SAT's.

If Berkley students want to become officers in the USMC, they should be allowed to work with an OSO just like anybody else without being obstructed by ignorant wackos.

And what exactly do Marine Corps Officers have to do with Abu Ghraib, or waterboarding, or CIA tapes? The protesters at this office are just misguided fools looking for an excuse to up their fringe street cred.

[jody]

83. Thanks for adding facts and personal experience, wipe out ignorance and hate wherever you find it .

[sybylla]

35. They are being booted because they discriminate

in violation of the city's non-discrimination law. If the city can legally enforce their non-discrimination law city-wide, then I'd say the recruiters should either clean up their act or move on.

[jody]

38. What federal non-discrimination law did recruiters violate? n/t

[EFerrari]

72. Well, there's that "all men are created equal" dealie.

The document doesn't say "all men are created equal except gay guys".

[jody]

81. So you don't know a federal law that the recruiters broke. That's what I expected. n/t

[EFerrari]

88. Try Title 7 and welcome to the list. n/t

[jody]

96. You cite Title 7. Please explain how laws under "TITLE 7—AGRICULTURE" justify Berkeley's actions. nt

[underpants]

2. I was just about to post this

Mmore "get in line" stuff from the old tired men.


Look it is their city and they do a pretty damned good job running it maybe Demint could spend some time there and learn from them

[tularetom]

3. Wonder how many marines the office in Bezerkley has signed up?

The marine officer's response is bullshit. They want to keep the office there just to piss people off and make a point. It certainly cannot be cost effective in terms of recruits per dollar spent.

The good people of Berkeley have the right to tell the marines whatever the fuck they want. Killing a bunch of innocent people in Iraq does nothing to guarantee anybody's freedom of speech.

[Raster]

15. Thank you!

And thank you Berkeley for taking a stand against the Military Industrial Complex.

And lest we forget:

"A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction.

Our military organization today bears little relation to that known by any of my predecessors in peacetime, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea.

Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."

President Dwight David Eisenhower
An Excerpt From the Military-Industrial Complex Speech, 1961

http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html

[lumpy]

79. Just one of the reasons Dwight Eisenhower was hated

by right wing warmongers/profiteers; his stance on military the industrial complex.

[ooglymoogly]

19. Truly

[EFerrari]

111. The only reason they're in Berkeley and not Albany anyway

is because the rent or lease was cheaper.

Oh, and because there are more poor people.

[nels25]

4. I would be interested in what Senator Webb

would have to say on this.

He served in the USMC if memory serves me correctly.

Look this is just a distraction, one can already hear Oriely(sp) getting ready to unload.


:eyes:

[kirby]

5. Webb is pretty conservative on stuff like this n/t

[RuleOfNah]

8. Why would Republican Senator DeMint call for secession?

Is it legal for Senators to do that?

[Squatch]

9. Way to go Berkely liberals...

way to stir up a useless and distracting shitstorm in an election year. How many fence-sitters did this push firmly onto the RW side?

[Raster]

12. "Berkely liberals..."??? Oh yes, it's all their fault! Fence-sitters and distracting shitstorms!!!

Speaking of distracting shitstorms...

[Squatch]

14. Who else do you think is trying to kick the Marines out?

Conservatives? :shrug:

Dude, the RW press is going to milk this for weeks to come.

[Raster]

17. The RW press has proved it (1) does not have the best interests of the citizens of the United States

at heart; (2) is grossly unreliable and dangerously biased; and (3) is rapidly losing any influence it has with the American public. Times are changing.

[Squatch]

21. I disagree with #3

At least from my vantage point in Virginia. Large swaths of the American public still flock to the bobbleheads on Fox, etc.

[Raster]

36. And that, my friend, is Virginia. That does not bode for the rest of the country.

May I ask, what part of Virginia? NoVA?

[Squatch]

37. Only as of late.

Spent the last five years in the armpit of VA known as Hampton Roads. (also the site of some extremely massive military installations)

[nels25]

20. Of course they are

This is taylor made for conservative talkers.

Why give the enemy amunition when it is splintering (see RW angst circa McCain)???

:shrug:

[noel adamson]

41. A "truth in advertising" law might have been a better strategy.

[boricua79]

47. way to go, finger-to-the air fraidy cat

way to base your political opinions on what FENCE-SITTERS THINK.

Screw the fence-sitters. Couldn't care less if they jumped over to the RW side. Maybe they'll keep electing Bush-like candidates and keep shooting themselves in the foot.

Best lesson ever is to burn yourself at the stove, and if they want to keep touching the hot stove, by all means.

As for me, I learned not to touch the hot stove a long time ago, and I'm not changing my perceptions on what stovetouchers do.

WAY TO GO BERKLEY!

[KAZ]

69. I've read several excellent replies from you this morning.

You should post more often.

[ooglymoogly]

10. Hmmmm Federal money comes from all of us.

If Berkley is to be denied federal money then why should the people of Berkley pay into a system that has abandoned them. I am sure they could get along quite well on the withheld taxes the Govt. Collects. The next step it seems to me if this happens is that the people of Berkley would pay their taxes to the city instead of the feds and what a precedent that would set.

[onenote]

43. i t would set the precedent of a lot of people paying big penalties for not paying their taxes

that's the only precedent it would set

[boricua79]

49. or not paying

if people collectively say no to the government, we're talking MAJOR social upheaval.

I say it's about time for a collective tax rebellion...it's BEEN about time for quite a while now.

Not like our taxes are doing much good now.

[rayofreason]

62. Sounds like the nullification doctrine.

But then the Civil War solved that argument.

[boricua79]

48. indeed.

The East and West Coast would keep their revenues, and leave Jesusland-Red Country without income.

Good to me. I vote for that!

[pipoman]

64. Yea, who needs their food anyway...

:sarcasm: :crazy:

[sinkingfeeling]

11. Sorry, Dude, but a recruiting office , as "part of the military machine", isn't

what gives Berkeley "the right to do what they do"; that's the US Constitution.

Edited out extra 'the'

[gratuitous]

13. DeMint almost slipped that through there, didn't he?

I respectfully suggest the honorable gentleman from South Carolina kindly pull his nose out of that jock he's currently sniffing and go fuck himself, as Vice President Cheney might advise.

[FreepFryer]

18. The military 'gives them the right to do what they do"? BULLSHIT FRAME ALERT. (n/t)

[Squatch]

24. That gaffe DOES NOT MATTER

the RW is going to hone in on the salient fact that Berkley is kicking the Marine Corps, the heroes of Iwo Jima and Fallujah (euphemism added for emphasis), out of their town and this one, brave Senator is utilizing his power to generate a groundswell of patriotic support to stop them.

Jebus, how fucking dumb can Berkley be?

[boricua79]

50. I'd say to the Berkley peole

stand your ground. If the dumbfucks who live in Jesus Land want to make an issue of it, let EM bring it.

It's time to take a damned stand.

Don't want to give us federal money? We'll keep our taxes and productive capital and doom your backwards cornfields to hell.

The problem in this country is that we keep avoiding the REAL ISSUE...the division between productive, modern, blue-state forces, and lumpenproletariat, backwards, red-state forces. It's the reason we liberals can't have the nation we want, and the reason the conservatives can't get their collective Jesusland fantasy going.

I'd say give it to them. Let them rot in their own ideologies and societies created from them.

Form two America's already. Then the red-staters can have recruiting offices in every goddamned nook and cranny of their rotting society.

[DBoon]

27. The military does not protect our "freedom"

they protect our sovereignty. Not the same thing.

Did the Marines give African-Americans the full rights of citizenship they deserve? No, it was hard working activists and their allies in the government.

The threat to our freedom does not come from foreign invasion - it comes from our own corporate-controlled government.

US territory has not been threatened by foreign invasion since 1945. US military interventions since then have been for purposes other than defending domestic consitutional rights.

The only way to ensure our freedom is through an educated and active citizenry. The military cannot (and should not) play a role in domestic politics.

[Freddie Stubbs]

23. If this makes it to the House floor, it will pass

[noel adamson]

25. Marines are trained for offense, not defense other than as window dressing at embassies.

They are trained to be carted off to other people's countries in the far reaches of the globe and deposited there to invade. The Marine's own most decorated hero, Smedley Butler (2 medals of honor) said that very bluntly a long time ago in "War Is A Racket" who's cover I see as Raster's avatar.

"I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-12. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras "right" for American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.... Looking back on it, I felt I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three city districts. We Marines operated on three continents. " -Smedley Butler

[Squatch]

28. Actually the USMC is trained in Offense *and* Defense

Though the purpose of the defense is to destroy the enemy and to regain the offensive.

[OneAngryDemocrat]

29. ???

As a former Marine, that is definitely INCORRECT.

One of the stated Marine Corps missions is to defend forward operating bases for naval forces.

The fact is, any force on the defense, is going to catch hell, in some shape, or fashion - they're getting attacked when fighting from a defensive posture, after all.

Please visit my anti-war website, www.shockedandawful.com

[noel adamson]

30. Defending the offenders seems like part of the offense to me and I did this myself.

In North Vietnam where my job was targeting and dispatching MIGs and PT boats in defense of the aircraft doing the bombing and ourselves. We were not defending America, Americans and definitely not defending Berkeley. Running around the planet pissing people off does not aid in our defense in any way, shape or form.

To make it clear, I admire the Marines and did then too.

[jody]

42. "former Marine"! I thought once a Marine, always a Marine? n/t

[OneAngryDemocrat]

65. You thought wrong...

A "former" Marine is not the same as an ex-Marine.

[jody]

68. Hundreds of thousands of Marines say "Once a Marine, always a Marine". They'll be surprised to find

they're wrong.

My Marine friends object to the terms "former Marine" or "ex-Marine" because the terms mean something that once was but is no longer.

Perhaps the Marine Corps can revise its Marine Corps tradition based on your new evidence.

I'll pass back to you their thanks for setting them straight. :rofl:

[OneAngryDemocrat]

112. ????

I'm speaking as a former Marine.

Let your pals speak for themselves, rather than have you speak for then - I'm offended that you'd even question a Marine's thoughts on the matter.

A fprmer Marine has long hair - an ex-Marine, left the service in disgrace: it's just that simple.

And the whole thing is rather silly, so that's all I'll say on the matter.

[DBoon]

26. and a town that told the Federal EPA to leave would be told what?

I'd love to see the same logic apply to the black helicopter types that want to banish "UN one world" organizations

What was that town in Utah that passed an ordinance providing for the arrest of any UN representative found in city limits?

[boricua79]

44. I HATE THIS MENTALITY!

"We understand things are different there, but some people just don't get it. This is a part of the military machine that gives them the right to do what they do, but what they are doing is extreme," the official said."

Our freedom doesn't come from a MILITARY MACHINE. Our freedom came from a people willing to defend their own freedom.

I don't owe my freedom to any 20 year old, barely-out-high-school, gullible grunt.

Our rights are inalienable and given to us by God, or nature, or whatever...NOT A MILITARY MACHINE!

Damn fascists.

[rayofreason]

63. "Damn Fascists"

You mean like those fascists in the 1940's who were stopped by all those folks in the MILITARY MACHINE that did nothing to secure your freedom?

Rights may come from God, nature, or whatever, but no one has to respect those rights if they don't want to unless they are forced to.

[OneAngryDemocrat]

66. Semper Fi

It is the Marine Corps that owes it's existence to the free people of America - not the other way around. Semper Fi.

[Doctor Cynic]

61. Maybe the City of Berkeley should no longer pay taxes to Washington

Fair is fair. Berkeley and any of those evil bastions of liberalism pay a lot more in federal taxes than they get back. And then politicians like him want to ignore that fact. I say any state that contributes money to federal coffers should not be afraid to withold federal taxes if people like DeMint abuse their power.

[totodeinhere]

67. Good for the City of Berkley!

I wish that more cities would take a principled stand like this.

[bluestdogest]

70. If Berkeley chooses to make a stand based on principle,

they will choose to voluntarily give up federal funding.

If not, they are simply full of $#!t.

[Hannah Bell]

74. Why?

I'm part of that federal funding, & I support their action.

Most of the country is opposed to the war in Iraq.

[bluestdogest]

90. Yes, but most Americans do not reject the presence of our military.

Furthermore, if we apply your logic as expressed in “Most of the country is opposed to the war in Iraq,” to the beginning of the war, I would conclude that you were for the war when it began. After all, something like 80% of the American people were for the war back then.

BTW, Marxism sucks.

[EFerrari]

105. Why aren't you in Iraq?

[ohio2007]

98. Actually, "CODE PINK" 'petitioned' to get the city to make the press release statement

Why don't the 'breasts not bombs" group petition the burka clad women of Saudi Arabia to end the submission and suppression of their 'suffragette sisters'

there's a hungry crocodile in the world nobody wants to look at and I don't think that ugly reptile leather is the thin red line worn by the members of the USMC

jmo

I doubt the city council will press the issue on behalf of code pink