US says no one too young for Guantanamo court

[sabra]

Source: reuters

<snip>

Navy Lt. William Kuebler asked a military judge to throw out the charges against Canadian defendant Omar Khadr, who was shot and captured at age 15 in a firefight at a suspected al Qaeda compound in Afghanistan in 2002.

"He is a victim of al Qaeda, not a member of al Qaeda," Kuebler said.

Khadr is the Toronto-born son of an alleged al Qaeda financier. He is accused of throwing a grenade that killed U.S. Army Sgt. 1st Class Christopher Speer in the firefight and planting roadside bombs intended to kill other U.S. or coalition soldiers in Afghanistan.

...

Kuebler argued that U.S. and international law assume that children involved in an armed conflict are not there voluntarily, because they lack the experience and judgment to understand the risk of joining armed forces. Defense attorneys contend that any charges against Khadr should be pursued in a civilian court in a juvenile system where the goal is rehabilitation rather than punishment.

If the U.S. Congress intended to try children as war criminals, it would have explicitly authorized that in the 2006 law that serves as a framework for the Guantanamo court, Kuebler said.

But a U.S. Department of Justice attorney, arguing for the prosecution, said that if Congress intended to exclude juveniles from the Guantanamo war court, it would have explicitly written that, because lawmakers knew Khadr could face charges. Instead, Congress wrote the law using the term "person," which legally refers to "anyone born alive," Justice Department attorney Andy Oldham said.

Read more: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N04596302.htm

[alstephenson]

1. Disgusting.

[sabra]

4. scary stuff :-(

[OKthatsIT]

23. ? You mean 'the boy is 15'...and they like little boys at Gitmo?

I think men who work there are insane.

[saigon68]

2. War Criminals in Charge of our Laws

I'm glad to see Harry Reid and his "Democratic" cohorts being so active to defund the antics of these War Criminals

</Sarcasm>

[Tempest]

3. So according to the Bush administration

The children who fought in the Sudan civil war against their will were combatants, not victims.

This is beyond pale.

[IntravenousDemilo]

5. As a sidelight...

Since Congress has now apparently made their official definition of a person as being "anyone born alive", then a foetus is officially not a person, and since murder refers to unlawfully killing a person, thus abortion officially cannot be called murder, so anti-choice people can now officially shut up.

Since the anti-choice are predominantly the same Republicans who cheer the Guantánamo concentration camp, I'm waiting for some RW heads to explode. In the meantime, Khadr should be brought to Canada forthwith.

[DRoseDARs]

6. "Person" = "anyone born alive" Interesting how the anti-choicers missed this one. n/t

[daleo]

7. What did the allies do with the 12 year olds in the Hitler Youth, back in 1945?

I can't believe they treated them as war criminals.

[frog92969]

8. One of them became Pope.

[daleo]

10. Good one. n/t

[katsy]

9. Hold on a minute...

"Instead, Congress wrote the law using the term "person," which legally refers to "anyone born alive," Justice Department attorney Andy Oldham said."

Corporations aren't "born alive" and they are deemed to have "personhood". So that shoots the born alive argument down.

And if this court upholds the prosecutors definition of "person" as being born alive, then we can shoot down corporate personhood, right?

If Congress meant to include children or corporations - they would have stated "minors" or "legal fictions", no?

[fascisthunter]

13. good catch... It's Time We Contrast the Two Much More Often

there should never be such a thing as personhood for corporations. That is one HUGE legal loophole that need to be shut and sealed for infinity.

[katsy]

15. I hope some savvy constitutional lawyers catch this should

the prosecution prevail.

[depakid]

11. "anyone born alive"

If a fetus were involved, it would be a different matter entirely. There would have more due process rights than you could shake a stick at.

[Diclotican]

12. sabra

sabra

United States of America can in theory, kill underage children, in the criminal Justice system.. But very seldom the punished are made before the children in the case are aged 18, and are reconsider as a grown up..

And United States of America can, in more than theory, execute mental disturbed people, mental ill people, and people who have a lover IQ then 50...

So I guess that a 15 year old children, who have been hold at Guantanamo Bay, for X year are more than a handful for the proud military tribunal under the Holly Leader George Walker Bush jr :sarcasm:

I Will bet that if this child, was taking under the wing of the ORDINARY CRIMINAL SYSTEM he may even manage to be a ordinary man, when he is been grown up... BUT then again, then the right wings on this world would not given their wishes, and people whose case are not full enough, to get a prison time would be free... Better to keep children in custody for the rest of their life, so they are not a dangerous to United States

I Will bet, if SOMEONE ELSE COUNTRY WAS DOING THE SAME THING TO A CITIZEN OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA all hell be loose, and the american Justice system, would do their best to get the child home to their parent.. Even if it is proven that the children was considered "criminal":. And I Will bet that if lets say 500 american citizens of USA was putting in a prison somewhere in the world, maybe Russia or China, and be accused of "criminal behavior" and be tried by a military tribunal, and maybe be hold in the camp for years at a time. The US would use ALL THEIR POWER to try to get all 500 american citizens home to US.. And if ONE AMERICAN SOLDIER WAS ARRESTED FOR WAR CRIMES and been send to a prison cell in HAAG. Then the Marines would be send in, to free the man.. Even that it means go to war against a allied nation, and maybe kill allied soldiers.. They forget that the Dutch armed forces have some pretty good soldiers themself...

But hey, I am just a afraid, liberal, stupid european, who doesn't like what I read and hope that in the the REAL GOOD OLD UNITED STATES Will raise again.. I know it in there, somewhere.. God lord I miss the days when United States of America was something to be proud about.. And I miss the days when US was sound something "good" for mankind.. Now it sound more and more like the NAZIS of Germany,

Diclotican

Sorry my bad English, not my native language.

[Solly Mack]

14. Beacon of hopelessness

:(

[ohio2007]

16. Iran: Nine minors waiting to be hanged ( could be worse )

Iran: Nine minors waiting to be hanged

snip
The last young person hanged for committing a crime during his adolescence was Makwan Moloudzadeh, hanged on December 5 last year in Kermanshah prison in Iranian Kurdistan.

Makwan was accused of having had homosexual relations with two companions at the age of 13.

snip
http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Security/?id=1.0.1843146531

After all the joking about Iran not having problems with homosexualitty....it seems Iran still hangs gays.


Guess they won't be having any 'gay pride parades' in any country in Persia or the middle east.....well...except for that hated state of Israel.

They say Israel is a cancer afterall.
/sarc

[YankmeCrankme]

17. This post was about the US and trying minors at Guantanamo

What does Iran, Israel and executing homosexuals have to do with it?

[Nihil]

21. Damn you and your facts!

Since when have logic, relevance or consistency put up a barrier
for certain people posting crap about Iran at every opportunity?

:shrug:

[LynnTheDem]

18. "He jails children" accused George W. bUsh re Saddam Hussein.

George W. bUsh; just another Saddam Hussein.

Only not as competent.

[ursi]

19. only fetuses are protected by the Bush administration ghoulies

[truthisfreedom]

20. Wait... NO ONE IS TOO YOUNG. Even the unborn are unsafe.

[Supersedeas]

22. justice....Bushcountry style

[The Croquist]

32. How old is Cheney's grandson?

Is he too young to be water boarded?

[CHIMO]

24. World Says..

Keep on trucking...

[ohio2007]

25. the world should watch what some kids can do

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=471_1202306092

we don't need no education......

we don't need no thought control

[CHIMO]

28. Sorry

Couldn't watch your link. Too scary and who knows what else...

However, if one thinks about it, one would have to assume that China, Russia and others, who are hoping for "Holy Alliances", would not be seriously disappointed if the Ruler was forced into a position of weakness.

[ohio2007]

29. The story linked to the video has been given its own thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3171825#3171900

but I don't think many wanted to view the actual 'recruiter' video. The video is nothing compared to what gets bought and sold in the middle eastern flea markets.
How long til the infantry videos get released?

[ProgressIn2008]

26. Where are Congressional Dems on this? Obama? Clinton?

Where do we have a voice? Who will speak for us?

[Orsino]

27. Can we, finally, stop confusing the * Administration with the US? n/t

[TrogL]

30. Deosn't the Geneva Convention say something about child soldiers?

[ohio2007]

33. half the African militant movement armies are made up of conscripted children.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=African+army+children+soldiers&search_type=&search=Search

[Javaman]

31. "listen son, it's not so bad, it's just like disney land..."

"only with bar, torture, beatings and the random taser"