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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 01:06 PM
Original message
Who Was the Illinois School Shooter?
Source: ABC

Stephen Kazmierczak, the 27-year-old who opened fire on a crowded Northern Illinois University lecture hall, killing five and then himself Thursday, was described as "fairly normal" and an "unstressed person" by NIU campus Police Chief Donald Grady.

But in the last few weeks his behavior had become erratic, according to Grady, and it is believed the Kazmierczak had stopped taking his medication. The chief declined to specify the type of medication the gunman was on.

Kazmierczak had served as a member of the NIU Academic Criminal Justice Association, was a teaching aid during his undergraduate years and in 2006 even received a Dean's Award from the sociology department.

In 2006 Kazmierczak was a co-author of an essay entitled "Self-Injury in Correctional Settings: 'Pathology' of Prisons or of Prisoners," in which an attached biography describes him as having just begun his graduate work at NIU.

Kazmierczak's interests are listed as corrections, political violence, and peace and social justice, according to the essay, and he had plans to co-author a manuscript on the role of religion in the formation of early prisons.



Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=4296984



Many people are living hopeless
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. Just heard that he was off his meds.
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Stuart G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
2.  At this point, they (authorities) refuse to say what kind of meds he was on..
Who knows what he was taking, why he stopped and what happened. Eventually, as it often does, most will come out..
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ben_meyers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. Isn't this the 3rd or 4th mass murderer that has been off
Edited on Fri Feb-15-08 01:37 PM by ben_meyers
their meds in the last year? How are people who need to be on "meds" in the first place allowed to acquire weapons. Do we need a national registry for these cases?
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bossy22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. NICS
is supposed to be that- but unless he was court ordered or had a court deem him mentally incompetant, it wont get reported into the system
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jus_the_facts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
5. Stopped taking his medication ...sometimes the medication is the CAUSE not the CURE...
....took some meds that were supposed to help me with depression but instead of making me better they caused me extreme side effects of paranoia I'd never before experienced and it took several months after I stopped taking it to get my brain chemistry back in check...always makes me wonder when I hear about all these people *off their meds* :shrug:
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. I agree with you. They don't even know what these meds do in the brain, and half the time don't
even know if they really work. FDA has been so watered down over the last 7 years that a whole lot of drugs are being approved and they don't fully understand all of the side effects.

They way I look at it, there is no telling what types of chemical reactions these powerful meds are setting up in the brain. There is no telling what types of chemical reactions are occurring in a persons brain when they suddenly stop a med they have been on for a while.

I have even heard that you can suddenly die if you abruptly stop some of these meds.

I think they should look long and hard before they put some of this stuff out on the market.

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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. Same "anti depressants" as those given to soldiers in Iraq?
You know, the ones that are given out so freely, without any follow up from doctors? The kind that make people do horrible, violent things without caring about consequences...
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jus_the_facts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. They work for some people.. but from my own experience ..I never should have been on these drugs
....I was emotionally exhausted in January of 2001 :think:

....yet after seeing a doctor was *diagnosed* as depressed/possibly psychotic...they prescribed me *medication* and I started thinking/believing that people were following me and putting cameras in my vents to watch me...stopped the meds and the paranoia eventually stopped...never in my life had any other drugs made me paranoid like this.
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Delphinus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. Whoa!
Sounds like my experience with Xanax! I now tell the doctors I'm allergic to it - quite a scary two weeks in my life.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
6. who cares
we need to stop publishing the names and stories of mass murderers and cut out this means for otherwise depressed, useless people to make a splash in the media
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Mike Daniels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
29. While it sounds cold, I agree with you
It's hard to work up much sympathy for someone who shot up an auditorium when he could have easily limited the body count to just himself.

I understand these drugs can have some bad side-effects but it appears that the majority of people taking them manage to avoid becoming part of a bloodbath.
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
7.  NIU gunman stopped taking medication
Source: Associated Press

DEKALB, Ill. - The man who gunned down five people at Northern Illinois University in a suicidal rampage became erratic after halting his medication and carried a shotgun to campus inside a guitar case, police said Friday.

The man, 27-year-old former student Stephen Kazmierczak, was also wielding three handguns during Thursday's ambush inside a lecture hall.

Two of the weapons — the pump-action Remington shotgun and a Glock 9mm handgun — were purchased legally less than a week ago, on Feb. 9, authorities said. They were purchased in Champaign, where Kazmierczak was enrolled at the University of Illinois.

The other weapons were still being traced.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080215/ap_on_re_us/niu_shooting
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Color me shocked
:eyes:
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Brother_1969 Donating Member (85 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Once we have a democratic pres & congress
we need to get serious about banning private possession of guns in this country. How many more mass murders do we need to drive home this painfully obvious point?
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. SCOTUS says self-defense is a personal responsibility. What tools do you want law-abiding citizens
to use?

Over 850,000 sworn law enforcement officers choose handguns for self defense.

Handguns are the most effective, efficient tool for self-defense by law-abiding citizens.
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Ano Genitus Donating Member (165 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. Ball-peen hammer.
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Drifter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. We really are here to take away your guns away ...
Banning private ownership is NOT going to happen, nor should it.

I am not a gun nut, in fact I have never owned a gun, and have no intentions of doing so.

What needs to be put in place are responsible ownership laws, that require training, background checks, etc.
A person should not be able to go into a shop and carry a gun out on the spot.
Anyone who would like to purchase a gun, does not need to have a gun RIGHT NOW.

I'm sure there will be plenty of opposing views (to both your and mine) coming along shortly.

Cheers
Drifter
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Indy Lurker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #12
33. Illinois has waiting periods for guns

State law requires a 72-hour waiting period for all handgun sales and a 24-hour waiting period on all long gun sales. The waiting period is used by law enforcement to run a criminal background check to make sure the handgun buyer is not prohibited from acquiring firearms. In addition, state law requires gun buyers to obtain a Firearm Owner's Identification Card (FOID), before purchasing a firearm.


Taking a gun into a school in Illinois is a Class 3 Felony

(1.5)A person who violates subsection 24-1(a)(4), 24-1(a)(9), or 24-1(a)(10) in any school, regardless of the
time of day or the time of year, in residential property owned, operated, and managed by a public housing
agency, in a public park, in a courthouse, on the real property comprising any school, regardless of the
time of day or the time of year, on residential property owned, operated, and managed by a public
housing agency, on the real property comprising any public park, on the real property comprising any
courthouse, in any conveyance owned, leased, or contracted by a school to transport students to or from
school or a school related activity, or on any public way within 1,000 feet of the real property comprising
any school, public park, courthouse, or residential property owned, operated, and managed by a public
housing agency commits a Class 3 felony.
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TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. not gonna happen
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dmallind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. The painfully obvious point that it is both impossible and political suicide?
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Sorry - that's a non-starter of an idea
I have every right to protect my self and my home. That said, I have no problem with waiting periods and refusing licenses to those convicted of felonies.
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bossy22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. the majority of the american public
thinks firearm ownership for self defense should be legal. The dems are not goin to try anything- mostly because many in their own party are pro-gun.....senate majority leader Harry Reid, Jim Webb, John Tester, Russ Feingold. not to mention countless congressmen and women.
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CC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
25. What we need is better access to
mental health care, better coverage of mental health care, better mental health care itself and a change in how we see and think of mental health care. We also need to get rid of the prejudice that society has against anyone that needs mental health care.
Even those with insurance can be shit out of luck after 30 days of in house treatment and anywhere from 3 to 6 visits out patient. Co-pays on treatment and on many meds are so high that it can be un-affordable to the average person.




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Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
38. YES!
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. You are going to have to wait 4 - 8 years
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
43. Make sure the Democratic candidate stress this position during the
Presidential campaign. It will sweep us into the White House.
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. ... and that medication is ???
sloppy journalism.
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. It's unknown at this point.
The police didn't elaborate.

A slightly better reference is in this Reuters article:

"Apparently he had been taking medication" but stopped and had become "somewhat erratic" in the last two weeks, Grady said. He did not describe what kind of medication was involved.

http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCandidateFeed2/idUSKRA48086720080215
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RantinRavin Donating Member (423 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. Perhaps it relly is none of our business what medication he was on
what makes the people in this country automatically assume they should be given full access to people's medical records. I do believe there is some federal law about this.
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. Since the FDA is broken, who can I rely on?
The drug companies?

How about the MSM?

I'm not interested in the shooter's medical records. I just want the name of that drug.


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xmas74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #18
45. Are you talking about HIPPA?
Once a felony is committed the rules change.

And maybe the medications should be made public. If we find erratic behavior has occurred in others who were legally prescribed the medication there should be additional testing done with the meds. Or sometimes you find out it might have been improperly prescribed. That also needs to be investigated.

Most of all people want answers. They want closure. And if the final answer is that he went off his meds that might get people thinking about those they care about who are on meds and what the meds are, instead of blindly believing that they will get better. Or it might make some question our mental health programs in the US and what they can do to make them more successful and easier to access.

I do believe in patient confidentiality but once a crime of this caliber has been committed all of us need to look at every aspect and find out where the fault lies.
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
31. Information on Zoloft, Prozac, Celexa
Some drugs that are linked to violent behavior.

========================================================

Celexa Linked With Suicide, Suicidal Ideation and Violence

The SSRI Celexa has been linked with suicide, suicidal ideation and violence in children and teenagers. Celexa is used to treat depression. The antidepressant medication Celexa is thought to work by boosting serotonin levels in the brain. Serotonin, one of the nervous system's primary chemical messengers, is known to elevate mood. Celexa has been prescribed as a treatment for depression to more than 30 million patients worldwide, including 8 million in the United States.

Antidepressants increased the risk of suicidal thinking and behavior (suicidality) in short-term studies in children and adolescents with Major Depressive Disorder (MDD) and other psychiatric disorders. Anyone considering the use of Celexa or any other antidepressant in a child or adolescent must balance this risk with the clinical need. Patients who are started on therapy should be observed closely for clinical worsening, suicidality, or unusual changes in behavior. Families and caregivers should be advised of the need for close observation and communication with the prescriber. Celexa is not approved for use in pediatric patients.

On October 15, 2004, the FDA ordered that all antidepressants, such as Celexa, must carry the government's "black box" safety alert to warn that the drugs are linked to increased suicidal thoughts and behavior among children and teens. The warning came after two days of public hearings of the FDA's Psychopharmacologic Drugs and Pediatric Advisory Committees (PDAC), where testimony by victims, parents and experts, in combination with previous testimony from the PDAC's hearing in February was presented. The committee voted 15-to-8 for a "Black Box" warning for children and adolescents after reviewing clinical-trial data that showed the drugs are twice as likely as a placebo to cause suicidal thoughts or behavior.

Have you or a family member commited a violent act such as suicide or other act involving serious bodily injury or death after taking Celexa?

===================================================

Prozac and Suicide

The SSRI Prozac has been linked with suicide, suicidal ideation and violence in children and teenagers. Prozac belongs to a class of drugs called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), which increase the level of the neurotransmitter serotonin that is absorbed by receptors in the brain. Depression has been linked to an imbalance of neurotransmitters, chemicals that allow nerve cells in the brain to communicate. By regulating the flow of serotonin, drugs like Prozac have been shown to alleviate many of the debilitating symptoms of depression and allow sufferers to function normally with few adverse reactions.

On March 4, 1993, two weeks after starting to take Prozac, William Forsyth stabbed his wife 15 times as she lay in bed, and then leaned on the knife to kill himself and commit suicide. Reginald Payne, 63, a teacher in Great Britain, suffocated his wife and cthrew himself off a cliff, committing suicide, in March 1996, after having taking Prozac for just 11 days.
Prozac Suicide Documents Are Damning

The documents discovered about PROZAC are particularly revealing:

1. Three years before PROZAC received approval by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), a similar agency in Germany had such serious reservations about Prozac's safety that it refused to approve the antidepressant. Eli Lilly's studies showed that previously nonsuicidal patients who took the drug had a five-fold higher rate of suicide and suicide attempts than those on older antidepressants, and a three-fold higher rate than those taking placebos.

2. Lilly's own figures indicate that one in 100 previously nonsuicidal patients who took the drug in early clinical trials developed akathisia, causing them to attempt or commit suicide during the studies.

It has also been discovered that the patent for a new version of Prozac, which Eli Lilly paid $90 million to acquire, states that the new formulation would reduce "the usual adverse effects" of the original Prozac, including "nervousness, anxiety, insomnia, inner restlessness (akathisia), suicidal thoughts, self-mutilation, manic behavior."

Prozac was introduced by Eli Lilly to the U.S. market in January, 1988. Some 45,000 reports of adverse reactions to Prozac have been filed with the FDA. These include reports of about 2500 deaths, with the large majority linked to suicide or violence.
Physicians Report Prozac Suicidal Reactions

Dr. Martin Teicher of Harvard Medical School reported in 1990 that he and his colleagues had observed suicidal thoughts in six patients who were taking Prozac. More recently, Dr. David Healy, an expert on the brain's serotonin system and the director of the North Wales Department of Psychological Medicine at the University of Wales, estimated that "probably 50,000 people have committed suicide on Prozac since its launch, over and above the number who would have done so if left untreated."

Meanwhile, the drug companies continue to rely on a 1991 finding from an FDA advisory panel that "there is no credible evidence of a causal link between the use of antidepressant drugs, including Prozac, and suicidality or violent behaviour."

==================================================================

Zoloft Might Be Cause of Suicide

The SSRI Zoloft has been linked with suicide, suicidal ideation and violence in children and teenagers. Zoloft is one of the more popular medications prescribed for major depressive disorder, which is a persistently low mood which interferes with everyday living. Symptoms frequently include loss of interest in your normal activities, disturbed sleep, changes in appetite, constant fidgeting or lethargic movement, fatigue, feelings of worthlessness or guilt, and difficulty thinking and concentrating. Zoloft may also be prescribed for a form of depression which has been referred to as premenstrual dysphoric disorder.

In the past decade or so, Zoloft has also been found to be effective in treating obsessive-compulsive disorder, which has symptoms that include unwanted thoughts that won't go away and an irresistible urge to keep repeating certain actions, such as handwashing or counting. Zoloft has also been prescribed for the treatment of panic disorder, and for post-traumatic stress disorder.

Zoloft is an antidepressant from the medication family referred to as selective serotonin uptake inhibitors. Serotonin is a neurotransmitter believed to regulate mood. Ordinarily, serotonin is quickly reabsorbed after its release back up into the releasing neuron (nerve cell). Zoloft, and other medications of this class block the process of "reuptake", therefore allowing an increased level of serotonin to be absorbed by the receiving neurons.

Some of the patients who have suffered an akathisia reaction have been driven to horrible deeds. Matthew Miller was a 13-year-old who committed suicide less than a week after starting to take Zoloft.

http://www.lawcash.com/lawsuits/injuries/zoloft-suicide.asp
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jus_the_facts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Maybe he never should have been on that particular medication to begin with....
Edited on Fri Feb-15-08 01:45 PM by jus_the_facts
....sometimes the supposed CURE is the CAUSE...doctors over prescribe medications for *depression* and they can and do make SOME people more screwed up than helping them...there's a HUGE difference between feeling down and having altered brain chemistry that needs to be treated with medication....sometimes getting OFF the MEDS isn't such a bad thing...yet we're led to believe everytime something like this happens it's because they should have kept taking something that might have actually been hurting instead of helping. :(
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. Maybe he should have been institutionalized, or declared incompetent
Which could have prevented him from buying firearms.
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jus_the_facts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Yeah and IF...if's and but's were candy and nuts...oh what a world it would be. n/t
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fed-up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. why should he be punished in advance for an adverse reaction to a medication???
when my son's father stopped his meds abruptly 19 years ago I walked in the bedroom and found him with his hands around my infant son's neck-this in an otherwise non-violent person

5 years ago after again stopping meds (because the side effects were hell) he successfully commited suicide


Remember the report a few weeks ago about people taking anticonvulsants for epilepsy and bipolar having double the suicide risk?

The pharmeceutical companies DO NOT know how these drugs work and they can trigger horrible chemical imbalances when starting them, adjusting them, going off them in a tapered or abrupt manner.

OF course the profits are huge, compared to the lives lost so the FDA does damn little to figure out what these drugs are really doing to people.

I am trying to find a med that will work for me and just being on a few for a few weeks has sent me in wild swings, nothing like I experienced without meds-nothing violent, mostly just majorly depressed and hypomanic.

I am scared to take them and scared not too, but suggesting institutionalization for anybody suffering from chemical imbalances is totally off the mark. Heck, 10-25% of the population would be "locked up".
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skip fox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
23. As a former attendant at a mental hospital and a current professor at a state university,
I feel the confusion and fear and irrationality from all angles.

I end up discussing this sort of thing with my classes. We all scratch our heads.

I don't know if there is anyway of avoiding. Our univ. use started a notification system, but if their phones are off during class this won't blunt the initial violence.

I'd like to see strong inside locks on the doors so if we heard shooting down the hall we might lock ourselves in, turn off the lights, and sit along an hall-side wall.

So damn sad at the entire, including the fact that we have to think in these ways on a college campus.
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
30. One of the Columbine shooters was also on antidepressant medication



www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9904/29/luvox.explainer/
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. Lots of people are on anti-depressants
They aren't all murderers.
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Yes, but why?

Why are we as Americans taking so much prescription drugs? We are the most heavily medicated people on the planet (though I don't live there anymore). Why is that? Is there an epidemic of depression? Does it have something to do with the fact that the pharmaceutical industry spends billions marketing questionable drugs that are often unnecessary and/or overkill for the patient?
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Because they are depressed?
:shrug:
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Depressed, or misdiagnosed?
Edited on Fri Feb-15-08 06:08 PM by nebula

there's lots of money to be made selling overpriced antidepressant medication.
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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. lack of happiness
Edited on Fri Feb-15-08 06:59 PM by AlphaCentauri
even living with all commodities many americans are not happy. Many resort to drugs to feel good.
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #36
42. And the pharamceutical companies spend billions in advertising on tv.
These people are being programed to take drugs.
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fshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
44. Stopping his medication was the first expression of his resolve.
Probably not its cause.
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evanlong Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-05-08 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
46. Columbine Attack Government Document Library
Links to 30K+ pages of government documents related to the April 20, 1999 attack on Columbine High School have been posted to the internet.

http://www.xmail.net/evanlong/tcc/Columbine_Attack_Government_Document_Library.html

I've also created a video on the documents called "The Columbine Cause".

http://www.xmail.net/evanlong/tcc/

Sincerely,
Evan Long

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