Iraqi Shiites Rally Against Danish Reprint Of Mohammed Cartoon

[Purveyor]

Source: Associated Press

Thousands of supporters of Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr demonstrated Friday against Denmark and Danish newspapers for reprinting a caricature of the Prophet Mohammed.

The demonstrations in the sprawling Shiite Sadr City slum, in the Shiite holy city of Najaf and in neighboring Kufa came after Friday prayers.

"There is no God but God and Denmark is the enemy of God," they chanted as they carried banners demanding that Iraq sever diplomatic ties with Denmark.
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"We demand from the Iraqi government to break off relations with Denmark," al-Sadr aid Sadiq al-Eisawi said during his sermon in Sadr City.

The rally also condemned the U.S. presence in Iraq, while protesters burned American and Israeli flags.


Read more: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/957093.html

[Redstone]

1. Oh, spare me. Don't those people have JOBS?

Redstone

[seriousstan]

2. They are really going to be pissed at me then......Dance Mohammed...DANCE!!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. Now I don't have a problem with that

but a cartoon showing the Prophet with a bomb I do have a problem with (like one of the Danish cartoons), and here's why: it implies that the whole religion of Islam condones terrorism, and that every Muslim is a terrorist. My boss thinks that way already, and if he knew my faith, he'd fire me on the spot and make sure I didn't get another job in town.

To my mind, cartoons that imply that an entire group acts or is one way or another is offensive. I'm sure no one here on DU would think it would be "cute" to post a racist cartoon, for example.

[bbinacan]

6. OK forget the bomb.

How would you feel about a cartoon showing a wedding to a 9 year old girl?

There's no excuse for people wanting to kill the cartoonist.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

15. No, there is no excuse for mass hysteria

which is what I call what is happening with the Wahhabists and their ilk. Sort of reminds me of how the right wing Christians in this country have whipped up their followers to hating "baby killers"--and let's remember that abortion providers have been killed and women's clinics have been bombed right here in this nation.

As for a cartoon showing a wedding to a 9 year old girl--I've seen them. Seems to me that was the age of Catherine of Aragon when she wed Arthur Tudor. Many European royals were married at that very early age. And it wasn't that long ago that places in the US had no age limits for brides. I believe in KS the age is 12. And amongst the polygamists in the West, child brides are common. It is illegal, but common. I guess what I am trying to say here is that you imply by your statement that marrying very young girls is strictly something Muslims do. What I am trying to show is that this is not the case, either historically or even today. Interestingly enough, if a Muslim girl is married very early, realize she is entitled to all the rights of a wife--even in countries that operate under Sharia law, that means that the girl cannot be sexually used and then thrown away. She has certain protections, as spelled out in the Qur'an.

What I see here is a lack of understanding of Islam and a certain tendency to overgeneralize the actions of a few Muslims and assume that all Muslims act this way or somehow condone what is being done.

[ohio2007]

20. nobody had a problem with freedom of expression

and the artist wasn't exactly excommunicated for his artistic freedom and freedom of speech.
LOL
freedom to use of US taxpayer funding

;)



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ

you would think the pope would have issued a fatwa or something.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

21. As I recall, the Pope did condemn this art work

and there was a lot of pressure to take this art, and other art the Church found objectionable, down from display (Chocolate Jesus comes to mind).

Both the extremist imams and the Pope objected--just in different ways. And I would say for different motivations. The imams wish to make all Islam extremist and to gain power for themselves, I think. The way they do it is through making their followers angry. Angry people don't think. They act--or rather, react. The wise person finds a way to get their point across that doesn't enable the anger.

[ohio2007]

22. but was the artist killed as well as thousands others of his ilk ?

no
Islam leaders get a free pass to the embarrassment of the 99% that actually practice the ROP

jmo

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

24. You're making a few assumptions here

first of all, that Islamic leaders get a "free pass". I have heard again and again where these Wahabbists have been criticized for doing what they are doing--and many question whether or not they even have the right to issue a fatwa. And there are people in the Middle East who are protesting the extremists' actions-and are being arrested and tortured for doing so. Oh, don't worry--you won't hear about it in the MSM. Better to have Westerners come to the erroneous conclusion that all Muslims are fanatics and that those who aren't don't do a thing about it.

[seriousstan]

7. They ran the cartoons because Theo van Gogh was murdered for making a film.

That is the problem. It is not an isolated attitude. Call a teddy bear Mohammed, go to prison and get beat half to death. Be seen holding a conversation with a man in a Starbuck's, go to jail and get threatened and strip searched. Get gang raped, get sentenced to 200 lashes.

It's time to step into the 19th century....at least.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

14. And reposting the cartoons helped in what way?

Did the reposting start a dialog about human rights? Did it help moderate Muslims in the area who have been saying that East and West can get along by engaging in sincere, polite dialog?

Why didn't the paper write an article about the moderate Muslims in the Middle East who are reaching out and trying to make peace with their neighbors? Why didn't they write an article about PeaceWorks, a group of American and European Sufis who have gone to Jerusalem to start a dialog and sharing between Jews, Christians, and Muslims? Why haven't they covered the numerous ecumenical councils that have been started by Sufis (and I'm sure other moderate Muslims-I'm just familiar with the Sufi ones)to start a dialog and build bridges? The Sufi Movement has headquarters in nearby Holland as well as France.

Do these bridge building activities EVER get a lot of press? No. One has to wonder why. Could it be that stirring up controversy and keeping hate and mistrust alive is more important to these editors?

[Penance]

9. You might want to tell the protesters your reasoning

They seem to be doing the same thing. Most of the condemnation of the images seems to have focused on the nation of Denmark rather than the newspaper, editors and artists. The story mentions that they want to cut off diplomatic relations and I know there were protests in front of embassies after the original images ran. They're blaming the Danish people for the actions of a few.

Your racist images comparison doesn't ring true. Criticism of racist actions/words is generally directed at the people who deserve the criticism or the entity that employs them. Criticism is rarely so broad to encompass entire countries and unless there was physical violence involved it is extremely rare to call for harsh punishment of the offender. It's almost unheard of to call for the death of someone who published or drew a racist drawing.

You have every right to be offended by these drawings and you have a right to have your objections heard. You seem to be a reasonable person and you've stated a reasonable objection. The same cannot be said for some of your fellow Muslims. Many have called for death threats against the cartoonists and there are precedents that these threats may be carried out (eg. Theo van Gogh). These death threats are far more common among hard-core Muslims where they are extremely rare among Christians, Jews or African Americans who have been equally offended by such material. This represents a huge perceptual problem for moderate Muslims such as yourself because you tend to get painted with the same brush as the extremists. It falls to you and your fellow moderate Muslims to either make your voices against these extremists louder or to marginalize the extremists within your communities.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

13. Well, since there are no extremists where I live in Arkansas

There are about three Muslims in the town where I work-all are doctors, and they are terrified for their lives thanks to the "extremely rare" death threats coming from "good Christians" (also known as Christian Dominionists-check out SPLC's hate group list), I'd like to know how come you aren't doing something about the Dominionists here in the USA. I'm assuming you are a Christian, and since all Christians have great influence over each other, I want to know how come you haven't stopped them and the likes of Pat Robertson.

Of course I'm being sarcastic here. But do you get my point? It isn't wise to assume that, just because I'm a Muslim, I live in a Muslim community and that Muslims here in the USA have influence over Muslims overseas. Sufis, in fact, are persecuted in both Iran and Saudi Arabia, and are not allowed to freely practice their faith. Shrines have been destroyed, people have been tortured for peacefully demonstrating against the government--many have been imprisoned and not heard from. I can write the Iranian embassy, I can sign petitions, just like any American can. But other than that, there is not much I can do--except to suggest that Western newspapers realize that by publishing the cartoons they are strengthening the hands of the Muslim extremists rather than helping Muslim moderates in Iran and elsewhere to push home the fact that East and West can get along.

[Penance]

29. I'm not a Christian

Despite my ironically Catholic handle, I don't claim in any way to be Christian. I'm actually an atheist. I can and do criticize Dominionism, Catholicism and Christianity in general. The difference is that I'm not part of the Christian community and I don't make excuses for Christian dogmas. Outside criticism (particularly from us atheists) will only go so far. It takes internal criticism to start a reform movement (eg. the New Baptist Covenant movement).

In both your posts about these cartoons, you have not actually condemned the Shi'ite fanatics' actions. You even defended their basic reasoning for being offended in your first post. I hate to sound too much like Sam Harris here but you, as a moderate Muslim, are giving cover to the fanatics by defending their reasoning and refusing to condemn their actions.

By "community", I don't just mean the people that you worship and live with, I also mean the groups that you self-identify with. You call yourself Sufi for a reason and obviously identify as such. You consider yourself Muslim (whatever the Salafi or Shi'ite fanatics say) and your voice carries some weight as a Muslim in places like this.

Just to clarify: I wasn't claiming that the Christians wouldn't make death threats. I was claiming that actions like making international death threats, having violent protests and calls for national trade embargoes over *offensive cartoons* were unlikely.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

30. What you took as "cover" for the Shiites

was an attempt to explain their way of thinking. It is important to understand that their way of viewing things is different than Western ways. The point of my posts were to show that. We must realize that, to communicate and not to butt heads, we must understand that everyone does not view the world the same way.

I read posts about liberating women in Muslim countries--and yet, I recall in 1979 when Iranian women willingly donned burkas over their designer jeans. Now, personally, I think that once the mullahs took control of the country, things got out of hand as far as they were concerned. Remember that part of this complex puzzle in the Middle East is our involvement and interference in democratically elected governments, such as the one in Iran. One thing to remember is that people in that region use Islam to show they are different-and apart-from Westerners, who have not done much to actually help the people in the region.

[ohio2007]

19. a little music mohammad if you please

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAkfHShATKY&feature=related

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

26. Not bad, but I think he'd like Qwali Music instead

Like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVLpIBsKQ0U

Oh YEAH!!!!!!!!

[High Plains]

27. Ah, the freedom to be an asshole. Ain't it great.

Where's your cartoon of Jesus fucking a goat?

[Dr. Strange]

28. Try post #20.

Just out of curiosity, is Serrano an asshole?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. What exactly was the point of reprinting the cartoons?

I saw the cartoons and thought they were offensive, especially the one showing the Prophet with a bomb. To me it was as offensive as seeing a cartoon depicting a black person as an ignorant buffoon or one showing that women can only be successful if they are pretty and subservient. But then I live in the USA, which is a very different society than Iraq.

The Danish editors had to know what would happen if they republished the cartoons. They can say it is "freedom of the press", but with tensions so high in the Middle East right now, I wonder if there were other motives.

[seriousstan]

8. The point was to show support for the artist after 3 Muslims were arrested plotting to kill him.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

16. Couldn't they do this in another way, though?

Such as posting ALL the artist's work to show that the artist is truly that-a person commenting on society in general? Talk about the artist as a PERSON, his likes/dislikes? Discuss the importance of freedom of expression? Talk with moderate Muslim groups that endorse the rule of law in Denmark? Report on interfaith conferences that are held to build bridges between communities? To my mind, the first suggestions would better honor the artist and the latter suggestions would strengthen the hands of those in the Muslim community who are fighting the Wahhabists. By posting the cartoons, instead the editor has strengthened the Wahhabis--and how? Well, the Wahhabis say that the West is intent on destroying Islam (a wild idea, I know, but read on). They point to the cartoons as showing lack of respect towards the faith, the first step in this destruction. Then they go on to point out discrimination in employment in Europe, the anti-immigrant stance of many European parties--it becomes a "then vs us" scenario with plenty of hate to go around from both sides.

[msongs]

5. too bad they cannot run their own lives better first nt

[provis99]

10. well, if America is the Great Satan, and Israel is the Little Satan,

does that mean Denmark is now the Medium Satan?

[Canuckistanian]

11. Just keep poking that hornet's nest with a stick, boys

That'll teach 'em a lesson.

[Purveyor]

12. One does indeed, have to wonder what the real motive of the reprint is....? n/t

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

17. Strengthen the hand of the extremists, that's the ticket!

Because that is exactly what they are doing. Instead, they COULD have reported on ecumenical councils that have met, or even sponsored or started one between Danes and moderate Muslims who seek ways of working together harmoniously. But I guess making people angry is more important than starting to solve problems.

[ohio2007]

18. Egypt 'monitoring attacks on Islam ahead of Dutch TV film'

Why is the movie out of the Dutch being avoided like the plague?

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gPfRaEYgm1Qxcws2W1wbCuTK9GGw

must be waiting for the knee jerk MSM to report the riots after the awards are handed out at Cannes ? ;) LOL

[ReformedChris]

23. Liberating Feminine Individuality is the key to defeating Radical Islam

I feel that is where the Renaissance of thought and liberal ideas will arise. Once women are put on their proper pedastal as equals in that society, I feel things will be better. Until then, things like this will always stay the same. Endless anger, hatred, and stone age thoughts will reign supreme until these radicals are defeated in the arena of ideas.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

25. Also stop the persecution of Sufis

who have allowed women places of power and influence. The Sufis are not allowed to practice their form of Islam in Saudi Arabia, and their shrines are bulldozed and they themselves rounded up and arrested and tortured in Iran. Sufi thought is one that is open and tolerant, and the extremists in power cannot abide with them.