H-1B visa shortage again

[OhioChick]

Source: Times of India

25 Feb 2008, 0055 hrs IST

BANGALORE: Despite evidence of an impending recession in the US, there is expected to be a severe shortage once again of US visas for Indian IT professionals in the coming year.

April 1 is the date to begin filing H-1B cases (for entry into the US from October 1), and IT companies are already scurrying to put together all documents in the expectation that the entire H-1B quota will be exhausted on the very first day, as it did last year.

"The visa scenario is going to impact the industry adversely, says Ravi Prasad, resident partner and immigration expert in legal firm Jay Sagar Associates.

"The business volumes have gone up significantly, but the quota remains the same. This is going to be a major deterrent for the industry, as it’s tough to convince and retain clients without having some amount of physical support/presence at the clients’ premises," Prasad adds.


Read more: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/H-1B_visa_shortage_again/articleshow/2810583.cms

---

Snip~ "It was widely expected last year that the US Congress would increase the H-1B quota to over a lakh. But that didn’t happen."

Good.

[thunder rising]

1. That just goes to show how low they pushed the wages. $7.00/hr at WalMart pays more than SW engineer

with BS.

[BearSquirrel2]

18. That assumes you have a job as an SW engineer ...

As a former software engineer, this is a sore subject for me. What motivation do American kids have to study Computer Science and "fill the shortage" when they keep importing cut rate software guys from India?

I've applied for too many jobs that were just H1-B placeholders. Eventually I gave up!!!!

H1-Bs were just a convenient way to get Americans to train there replacements on site. Once they trained these folks in the US, it was easy to move their operations overseas.

[Captain Angry]

34. I attend a university with 20,000 undergraduate students.

80, yes EIGHTY of them are Computer Information Systems majors. The CompSci department is in better shape. They're over 100 students in the entire program.

The kids got the message.

They ask me why I am TA'ing their classes while I'm getting a Finance degree. I try not to dump on them about watching my job head off to India. I just tell them to make sure they always plan for the future, always have emergency savings, and don't assume anything is ever permanent.

[Dogmudgeon]

40. H1-B placeholder jobs ... I applied for ELEVEN HUNDRED

I probably applied for every H1-B placeholder job in my technology fields (MS Office enterprise-wide programming) east of the Mississippi (and a few in CA) between 2001 and 2004. 1100, give-or-take.

I had this crazy idea that anyone who wanted to work could find a job in their field.

Also: Showing up for job interviews AFTER the company had folded.

Twice.

No phone calls to say, "the company is going out of business", just an empty office.

Oh well, live and learn.

--p!

[Deja Q]

2. Sadly, April 1 is no joke.

But do we feel like fools?

With the amount of infrastructure moved to Ravi's country, how come they still need to be tethered to us?

I will never understand this free trade stuff, except the repercussions seem to be hurting more Americans.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

4. Is it time to tell politicians that if they don't rescind trade agreements they won't get elected?

I think it's time.

[Deja Q]

6. Protectionism may not be the answer...

Keeping qualified people is.

In which case, according to the complaints of many, what would BE the difference?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

15. I disagree. I don't think corporations are human beings that deserve the freedom we do. nt

[barb162]

38. It's way past time.

[Megahurtz]

53. I totally agree!

Before this situation gets even worse!

[BearSquirrel2]

19. Don't remind me of Ravi ...

Don't remind me of Ravi. That guy had no grasp of English and less of Computer Science. I wanted constantly wanted to strangle him!!!!! You nod your head and yet you understand NOTHING!!!! I'm sure he's still gainfully employed in the field!!!!

[DS1]

49. I know Ravi

he used to go get high on his lunch break. I'm cool with that - after hours!

[mrreowwr_kittty]

3. Shortage in whose estimation?

I find it hard to believe that we need to increase H1-B visas by 2 million over the next 10 years while so many people here are begging for good jobs. If there is a shortage of highly skilled people (which I doubt) then that is an indication that we need to improve our training and education programs, not that we need to seek workers from other countries who are willing to do jobs for 1/3 the salary. Surely 10 years is more than enough time to grow our own talent.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

5. CEOs of course. Every penny they save goes in their pocket. When are we going to do somerthing

about this stuff?

[Deja Q]

8. Ask the politicians being talked about in GD-P.

They're running for a position of leadership, therefore they should be mature enough to have answers.

Indeed, as a form of cheap amusement, I posted this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4741522

:evilgrin:

[OhioChick]

10. Crickets on That One, Eh? n/t

[OhioChick]

9. Agreed. We Have No "Shortage" of Workers Here....

We Don't Need More H1B's.

Study: There Is No Shortage of U.S. Engineers
2007-04-04

A new study argues that the offshoring of U.S. jobs is caused by cost savings and not a shortage of U.S. engineers or better education in China. However, the study warns that the United States is losing its global edge.
A commonly heard defense in the arguments that surround U.S. companies that offshore high-tech and engineering jobs is that the U.S. math and science education system is not producing a sufficient number of engineers to fill a corporations needs.

However, a new study from Duke University calls this argument bunk, stating that there is no shortage of engineers in the United States, and that offshoring is all about cost savings.

This report, entitled "Issues in Science and Technology" and published in the latest National Academy of Sciences magazine further explores the topic of engineering graduation rates of India, China and the United States, the subject of a 2005 Duke study.

In the report, concerns are raised that China is racing ahead of both the United States and India in its ability to perform basic research. It also asserts that the United States is risking losing its global edge by outsourcing critical R&D and India is falling behind by playing politics with education. Meanwhile, it considers China well-positioned for the future.

Dukes 2005 study corrected a long-heard myth about India and China graduating 12 times as many engineers as the United States, finding instead that the United States graduates a comparable number.

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Careers/Study-There-Is-No-Shortage-of-US-Engineers/

[BearSquirrel2]

22. We forget that experience is education ...

Yes, we forget that working on a job is it's own form of experience. So offshoring and importing workers just makes whatever false claim they make even worse by default.

Yeah, there are some EXTREMELY and OBSCENELY brilliant people out there. But this probably only applies to a few H1-Bs and L-Z1s. They could fix this by reducing H1-Bs and increasing the involved fees by a factor of 10. Then companies will only pursue foreigners they actually need as opposed to those they want for increased profits. And if they go overseas, just tax the bastards to death.

At some point we are going to have to turn back and decide to stay self sufficient. The time to do this is BEFORE we are totally dependent on China!!!!

[BearSquirrel2]

20. The key is "highly skilled"

You see, the key is "highly skilled". You simply ask for 5 years of experience in a 3 year old technology and automatically NOBODY is qualified!!! Not just one ... ALL OF THEM!!! Therefore you're then free to hire overseas.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

23. Plus, write into the job description that they need to speak Urdu.

I have literally seen that.

[OnionPatch]

28. But then they would have to contribute

some of their precious profits toward taxes to help educate Americans, and darn, they don't want to have to do that! Much easier to ship in some cheap labor.

[LeftHander]

70. There is a shortage of poorly written crappy code....

I mean crappy code...is one thing...but poorly written crappy code is another...

[Omaha Steve]

7. K&R

For my good friend in Ohio that tracks workers issues.

[OhioChick]

11. Thanks, Steve.

I hope today finds you and your family doing well. :grouphug:

[Pavulon]

12. No estuaries no fisheries..

if you put h1b guys into entry level jobs you kill opportunity for graduates. Entry level it work is the place for the next set of best and brightest to cut their teeth.

[high density]

13. Where are all these jobs that they need H-1Bs for?

Bill Gates wants everybody to move to Redmond, WA to work for him. He's one of the biggest whiners for more H-1Bs. Otherwise I don't see many tech jobs out there unless you want lousy 3-6mo contracts or have security clearance. Since the bubble burst in 2000 Bush has done nothing to fix this problem. I entered college in the fall of 1999 figuring we'd be back on the upswing by the time I graduated. I was wrong. Now a few years after college the job situation is still exactly the same.

[InkAddict]

24. Did you know there are not enough highly skilled dance instructors

in America. At least not enough to attract dance students to ballroom studios?

My ex-boss made me type the personal letters and paperwork that his H1B nurse had to submit to her immigration attorney under cover of "all other duties as assigned." At the time, my spouse couldn't find IT work in our community...sometimes, life sux.

I did manage to let her know how hard it was to do tasks that she was quite capable of doing for herself if she really wanted to work in America. She didn't like what I had to say much...

[Azazel]

14. They are waiting until after the election....

Then they will open up the floodgates with an increase in H1Bs.

[FreakinDJ]

16. Most abused Visa program

[Cymric]

17. What's up with that?

I can't figure it out myself! I have 20+ years computer experience, 10 computer certs, and an MBA in InfoSec and I can't advance where I am working and I can't quit! Jobs out there pay less than half of what I am making now and my current employer is making my life a living hell!

[OhioChick]

21. I Hear You!

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[boppers]

26. Welcome to DU!

We got more than a few of us crufty CLUI-generation folks here. We even get into "editor wars" when we're bored. ;)

[pnwmom]

29. I've heard so many stories like that. It's a crime. Welcome to DU, Cymric. n/t

[Spiffarino]

30. Ditto here, too.

I can't leave and I can't move up or even laterally. I am literally stuck right where I am if I don't want to take a massive pay cut.

H1B's, as a previous poster said, line the pockets of CEOs and raise stock prices. They do nothing to help the country and are otherwise unnecessary.

[InkAddict]

35. Poetic Urdu cannot be easily translated.

qafas me;N mujh se ruudaad-e chaman kahte nah ;Dar hamdam
girii hai jis pah kal bijlii vuh meraa aashiyaa;N kyuu;N ho

1) telling me, in the cage, the events of the garden, don't be afraid, friend
2) the one on which lightning has fallen yesterday-- why would it be my nest?

See the link for translation and meaning.

http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00ghalib/126/126_05.html

An answer using info from post #23.

[newportdadde]

25. If there is a shortage its because they are all in my IT department.

Seriously when I get up to use the bathroom I feel like I am in Bangalore. In the past 5 years we have HIRED less then 4 people. There are bays and bays of onshore not even counting the offshore.

Whats funny is the offshore people have PCs in our area.. so there they sit these PCs all ligned up in abandonded cubes... those use to be people I work with not faceless machines for others to remote into to.

People use to spend years and years.. careers learning the ins and outs of the business now nobody is learning that.. these guys come over for 2 years roll up a sack of cash and then take off with the knowledge so they can get married and live like royalty back home.

If a person walks to a different part of the company its like a new world though, good lighting, new office furniture etc. So your telling me that an onshore person couldn't do those basic business functions.. the kinds of job the ex frat brothers with the 2.5 do... please.... please...

Instead is just IT that gets picked on.

Things I'm starting to notice:

1) Their policy is that English should always be spoken onsite by their associates.. this has started to change.
2) As they have become our primary resource and we can't live without them bill rates have gone up and work quality has gone down.

[OhioChick]

27. Interesting Comments Following the Article Re: Outsourcing

From an Indian News Source.

Stop this hyper journalism.
by Ashish Agnihotri on Feb 22, 2008 11:08 PM | Hide replies

There is need to think before writing or write with proper analysis in mind. See at what time is Hilary changing the gears. This explains why she has made u-turn. Almost down to Obama she changed her campagin manager, she has changed her stands on few other important issues. She has no choice but try every trick in trade to see if she can reverse the vote against her in many primaries. This is last chance for her. So dont be surprised if you hear her say things that she never said before or said exactly opposite. Hold on...world is not falling for every sentence spoken by any Senator in USA. Remember Bush is still president ...have faith in ourselves...India can determine its own course after these many years...please.

Why only outsourcing of services?
by True Indian on Feb 22, 2008 10:48 PM | Hide replies

All products in US markets like food, cloth and materials are outsourced. Why shouldnt they increase the tax on the imports? US market is full of cheap chinese products. Why dont they set up their ouw industries? That shall solve their job problem. Democrats are born diplomatic and should never be trusted. They licked Paks feet even when they knew that its harbouring terrorism. Hiliary had more trips to Islamabad than to Delhi.

India should start its own products.
by Sree. on Feb 22, 2008 10:19 PM | Hide replies

I think its the time that we indians should start our own companies and our own products and market these products world wide. No outsouce, we should only do the business.. instead of selling our technology and minds, we should start selling our products.. what say on this readers..

BILL Outsourcing
by Janak Madhu on Feb 22, 2008 04:40 PM | Hide replies

Politicians will remain politicians...now that she is loosing out, she is singing the same song as others...outsourcing is never gonna stop. When did she start bothering about AMERICAN middle class families eh!!...on the other side..banning chinese goods - China holds around 60-75% of US bonds...no way they can stop importing chinese goods...even the biggest retailer WAL-MART imports all of its goods from China and from India tooo....OUTSOURCING IS HERE TO STAY...

democrats have never been pro-india
by Sriram on Feb 22, 2008 01:30 PM | Hide replies

This is complete populist banter. It will increase inflation in the US because it will cost companies a lot more to hire local labour and they will pass it on, given the highly competitive nature of american businesses. why not kick out the illegal mexicans too? They steal american jobs like we steal their investment

More Comments Following the Article:

http://www.rediff.com/money/2008/feb/22bpo1.htm

[dreamnightwind]

39. Hillary

I am surprised to not see more about Hillary in this thread. I saw her, very early on in the campaign (before any primaries) saying how we need to increase the number of H1-B visas. Made me sick. I don't know Obama's views on this, anyone?

[ChromeFoundry]

42. Well, Indians are talking about Hillary making "u-turns"

Stop this hyper journalism.
by Ashish Agnihotri on Feb 22, 2008 11:08 PM | Hide replies

"There is need to think before writing or write with proper analysis in mind. See at what time is Hilary changing the gears. This explains why she has made u-turn. Almost down to Obama she changed her campagin manager, she has changed her stands on few other important issues. She has no choice but try every trick in trade to see if she can reverse the vote against her in many primaries. This is last chance for her. So dont be surprised if you hear her say things that she never said before or said exactly opposite. Hold on...world is not falling for every sentence spoken by any Senator in USA. Remember Bush is still president ...have faith in ourselves...India can determine its own course after these many years...please."

Edited for link

http://www.rediff.com/money/2008/feb/22bpo1.htm

[OhioChick]

43. How's This? It Pertains to the Subject.

Courtesy of One of "Antigop's" Posts:

Hillary pushes for more h1-b visas and outsourcing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhLBSLLIhUs

Lou Dobbs: Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLNOSGM2jK4

Lou Dobbs: Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgdrh2Bc95M

[AngryOldDem]

44. There's this article, too.

http://www.financialexpress.com/news/Clinton-sings-Obama-tune-on-outsourcing/275946/

A little more restrained in tone maybe, but the disdain is still very much evident. And that is what pisses me off.

[OhioChick]

47. Link Doesn't Work. n/t

[AngryOldDem]

58. Let's try this one. Same story, different site.

But it's really very strange that the story to which I linked earlier is now unavailable. By coincidence I was doing some light research on this topic in preparation to respond to a post in another thread, and I opened it several times today. Had no problems getting it earlier.

Try this link. http://www.congoo.com/news/2008February22/Outsourcing-Hillary-sings-Obama-tune

Sorry about that; been gone most of the afternoon.

[OhioChick]

61. Thanks....

I came across this one this past weekend.

Now Hillary too blasts outsourcing

http://www.rediff.com/money/2008/feb/22bpo1.htm

[MrsBrady]

31. the h1 visas quota for 2008 was already spoken for by the middle of 2007

I was working in recruting up until October, and our immigration specialist had sent us an email regarding that.
--in other words, she was letting us know not to bother with trying to hire any "new" h1's for 2008 work....no more visas, all gone, all spoken for.

just fyi

[gemdem]

32. Probably too late to save my job

My company is sending jobs offshore and it's a trainwreck. I may actually be asked to stay around -- but not as a software developer. I'm looking for a job right now, just in case. I'm fortunate that I have a skill set that is in demand, but it's still a hard slog ferreting out the opportunities that require my degree of business and technical experience (25+ years of dedicated work and constant reinvention).

I'm just hoping to get through the next four or five years until my older two (14 and 17) are through HS. After that, I'll likely have to finesse my way through the next five or ten years to retirement. That includes trying to put my younger two (now 7 and 8) through school, too. At that time, their better option may be to go through trade school rather than college. Nothing wrong with trade school, but it's clear that a college education doesn't mean what it used to any more.

[2Design]

33. hire american born people - non indian - they have been looking for jobs

in IT since you started this crap back in the 1980's and laid them off in the early 90's to hire younger or overseas - stopped putting americans out of work -you greedy suckers and congress stop going along with this bullsh*t

[nbcouch]

36. Let us all remember one thing

The problem is not Indians, who are only trying to make a living like you and me. The problem is Corporatism. Corporations exploit cheap labor wherever they can find it - or make it. If they can't find it where they want it, they'll import it, and if they can't import it, they'll just export the jobs.

In the Denver area in the late 1990s, there were 50,000 unfilled information technology jobs, or so we were told. By late 2001, those tables had turned, and you couldn't buy an IT job. On Academy Award night, it seems only fitting to borrow a phrase: you couldn't get arrested. Weren't we in a recession back then? Yes, but IT historically has always been recession-proof. I know, I lived (and flourished) through several of them.

What happened to IT was BushCo - and it will happen to you, if it hasn't already, if BushCo corporatism is allowed to continue.

[Mountainman]

45. "The problem is not Indians" Then why do they want to remain here?

Do they become the problem when they become citizens and still work for for less than Americans use to get paid? I think so.

Labor should stick together not let corporations to pit one worker against another.

[nbcouch]

46. Aren't you pitting one worker against another

by suggesting that Indians ARE the problem? Do you have some reason to believe that H1B people are applying for citizenship in large numbers? It's not a permanent visa, the H1B, you know.

[Mountainman]

51. I use to have lots of friends that were Indian computer consultants and IT people.

They all wanted to stay here because the standard of living was better than in India. That started to change a few years ago when things got to be pretty good for them if they went home.

Unless you are willing to concede that we are all in a global labor market competing for jobs then I'd say it is not their fault. But given the chance to replace an American permanently, I'd say that at least they are complicit.

[nbcouch]

63. We ARE all in a global labor market competing for jobs

Like it or not, that's the world we live in today. Personally, I don't like it one bit. I can't compete on cost of living with Bangalore or Hyderabad, which means I can't compete on wages either. The playing field's not level, and this is exactly what offshoring exploits.

[Jeffro40]

68. Not suggesting . . . they ARE the problem.

I haven't met one (and I've worked with thousands) that is not trying to get a permanent residency. You obviously have never been replaced by someone volunteering to move across the globe and work for 1/4 of what you make.

[Jeffro40]

60. I beg to differ! If they wouldn't come here

and work for 20% of whay American's work for this wouldn't be an issue. Without them the "big bad corporations" wouldn't be able to do it. It's bad enough that they work in India for 10% - but they come here, live 7 to an apartment, share 5 to a car, and work for 20%. I know this because I managed the whole process when I worked for Hewlett-Packard.

[nbcouch]

64. So you participated

in illegal H1B exploitation (H1Bs by law are supposed to be paid the prevailing wage) for H-P - and you're defending H-P? The way you see it, these Indian guys were exploiting H-P and not the other way around - have I got that right?

H1B visa workers come here at the invitation of our government and our corporations. I don't blame them one bit if they accept the invitation because they find they can improve their quality of life in doing so, nor do I transfer my loathing for corporate exploitation to the workers being exploited.

[Jeffro40]

65. So, no, I didn't

And I'm not defending anyone, especially HP. First of all, I quit after finding out what the damn job really was - managing these people who were taking away American jobs. I was hired to run a "global project." Yea right, an Indian project. Next, if you think these workers, any of them, are getting a "prevailing" wage, you are naive indeed. There is NO REASON to bring them here if they are being paid a prevailing wage. In the IT business it's called "Indian rates" vs "American Rates." For American's many companies calculate a "fully loaded" cose (including benefits, FICA, insurance, overhead) at $100 per hour. That's about right. "Indian Rates" are $25-$30. I'm not defending it. On the contrary, I'm blaming the Indian workers for undercutting us and making it IMPOSSIBLE to compete.

[nbcouch]

66. First of all

"these people" are not taking away American jobs. Tata and Infosys and the like, in concert with "American" companies like H-P and Microsoft and myriad others, take away American jobs. Do you actually believe that "these people," as you refer to them, get to set their own hourly rate? Or write the terms of the contracts under which they are hired and farmed out to America or the shops in India? It doesn't work that way, any more than cattle get to set the price of prime rib.

I have worked with many, many citizens of India over the years, both offshore and here in the US. I used to resent them, until I realized that they are pawns in the globalization game, same as me. They have no more control over what's happening than you or I do.

[Jeffro40]

67. So you're saying they're being forced to work cheap?

They move from India to the US KNOWING they are only going to ask $20 an hour. It's no different than Mexican workers crossing over and working for $2 an hour.

Sure, a company is more than happy to pay $2 - IF someone is willing to work for that. Most American's won't.

The Indians are the most capitalistic of all - the Walmart of the IT industry. Average talent at basement prices. They sign up to be pawns. There is plenty of work in India now for them at outsourcers. They come here to take American jobs.

[nbcouch]

69. I signed up to be a pawn too

'Cause I need to make a living. Mexicans cross the border to make $2 an hour 'cause it's $1.75 more an hour than they can make back home, if they can find a job there at all. Indians come here to make more than they ever could at home and to enjoy a better standard of living too. You're blaming the wrong people. Nobody can take an "American job" unless an American employer offers it to them! Like I already said, not in so many words: the demand for cheap labor creates the supply.

[barb162]

37. Hire unemployed Americans! Get rid of the damned H-1 B program

These IT firms are firing American workers and applying for H1B workers at the same time.

[Megahurtz]

54. YES!

:mad: What about all of us???

[OhioChick]

55. American Corporations

Don't give a rat's ass about "all of us." They want that cheap-ass labor.

[barb162]

57. That's precisely right, they don't care where they get that labor.

[AngryOldDem]

59. Exactly.

And while we're at it let's put to bed the whiny lie that American employers are dishing out by saying that they can't find enough "qualified" American workers.

Bull-fucking-shit.

[flashl]

41. H-1B visa other targets ...

Look Out Teachers; The H-1B Visa Gang Wants Your Job

H1B for nurses

There is no shortage in the U.S. of degreed talent. In fact, the job creation rate in comparison to annual graduation rates is grossly out of sync.

Currently, U.S. colleges have more applications from graduating high school students than they can process. Yet, U.S. universities are competing to build campuses overseas.

Oddly, a few months ago, American businesses (an oxymoron) complained that foreign countries were not producing enough highly skilled workers to meet their demands while thousands of degreed/certified Americans remain unemployed or underemployed.

U.S. businesses claim they need to outsource jobs to increase their profits. Now the question is, how will businesses profit when there is no one in the U.S. left with resources to buy their product?

[DS1]

48. Good

[Stapz]

50. Why bring them here?

Why bring anyone here ...... when you can outsource our economy!

[apnu]

52. Ah, globalizing capitalism biting us in the ass for a change

Instead of dumping billions of bushels of corn and other commodities on the international markets, thereby killing local agriculture in other countries because its cheaper to import commodities from us (and Canada for that matter), we are on the receiving end of that equation.

Thanks to India turning SW engineers into a commodity crop, and dumping thousands of them on the global software market, which in turn, depresses wages so it is cheaper for us to import SW engineers than it is to hire them at home. Not only killing innovation (or taste to go back to the agriculture model), but stifling future growth in the industry (in terms of new workers, native to the US).

Yeah, this is the other shoe and its been dropping for a while. If you ever wondered what the people of Jamacia feel about free trade, that bile in your throat is but a small taste of what they go through. This is what NAFTA and 'free trade' have brought the world: Corporations run wild with money, while the worker and consumer get the shaft. Sweatshops for everybody! Yay!

If you wanted a reason to defeat the GOP, DLC and any other corporatist movement in America, this is it folks.

A consumption based economy cannot function if there are no purchases. There cannot be purchases unless people have jobs... and good paying ones at that.

This is like Earl Butz all over again. For those who don't know, the Sage of Purdue, changed the Department of Agriculture to influence farmers to plant more commodity crops to depress prices, and when things get bad for the farmer? Plant more.

This is the same thing folks.

(edited for grammar)

[barb162]

56. Sweatshops for everybody! That's right.

And NONE of the candidates are really addressing this. They're talking around it and talking about retraining (retraining for WHAT???), green jobs (all 100 of them), and it's all bullshit. Which of the candidates is not for a globalist, free trade and corporate agenda? People have to wake the hell up already, although I think it's already too late.

[superconnected]

62. I'm against increaing h1 visas but I have to tell you guys, I did get a laugh

late last year when the company I'm at right now was doing so poorly they sent all they guys from india back. Of course it was after they laid off nearly everyone else first.

We're still going under. It's empty here - nearly all cubes unoccupied. The few cube rats left including the ceo's secretary have moved into offices since nobody cares what we do.