US must take urgent note of IT worker shortage: Wipro chief (Indian Co)

[OhioChick]

Source: Hindustan Times

Friday, February 29, 2008

The growing shortage of IT professionals is fast becoming a serious issue in the United States and the business leadership in the country needs to "take the problem by the horns", Wipro CEO and chairman Azim Premji said.

"America does not have the talent. There's a huge shortage of IT professionals here," Premji told the Atlanta Business Chronicle. Wipro is in the process of opening its first American software development centre in Atlanta and plans to hire 200 professionals here within a year. The work force would be extended to 500 within three years.

The number of awarded engineering degrees in the United States has dropped 20 per cent over the past two decades, according to pro worker-visa-advocacy group Compete America.

Premji, who strongly advocates that the visa cap would hurt American competitiveness, said the IT industry here needs to proselytize more to students about the benefits of computing jobs.

Read more: http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=8f4ea5a1-4743-4a4c-ba76-054d8acf16e4&ParentID=2d433c89-1398-4261-8df6-1ee7e7a4fecc&&Headline=Premji's+plea+to+US+over+IT+worker+shortage

---

I'm so sick of hearing of this so-called shortage of IT Professionals in the US. It's BS.

Duke Study: "Study: There Is No Shortage of U.S. Engineers"
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Careers/Study-There-Is-No-Shortage-of-US-Engineers/

[ChromeFoundry]

1. Shortage, my ass.

K & R :kick:

[Pavulon]

2. BS...These morons

think they are going to sell that crap here. Wipro worms its way in by undercutting existing labor and then after they are in rob you by charging for any changes.

The industry is beginning to realize this is not sustainable.

[USA_1]

3. We Have THOUSANDS of Students Who Graduate ...

... from schools here in Minnesota with IT degrees. There is no shortage at all. It's just that the corporate interests are looking for profit maximization by sending jobs overseas.

Vote Republican and we will lose more jobs.

[khaos]

5. a degree is a good start but RCGs rarely have the competence to be productive w/o extensive training

an US education doesn't get you very far these days. combine that with a sense of entitlement and you have a lot of undesirables.

[Pavulon]

7. Sorry.

RCGs deserve access to entry level jobs to train in. With out this access there will be no one to fill the engineer level jobs. Without helpdesk jobs , entry level programmers, and desktop techs you will never get innovative skilled engineers.

India has good script followers. However there is LITTLE innovation coming from india.

Wake me up when they create a VMware, IOS, any significant app. A maintenance programmer is not an innovator.

I do not have any problem with indians in the us as citizens in IT or engineering. However bringing in some doofus to replace me for 1/3 my salary and expect the same output is insane.

[ReadTomPaine]

16. Bingo. There are people with Ph D's and decades of experience right now looking for IT work as well-

and they literally wrote the book on this profession, many having authored the texts students learn the trade from today. For over a decade they designed, built and maintained the digital infrastructure on which the US economy ungratefully rests its lazy backside before getting tossed out on the street and there's a reason beyond the money although that's a big part of it.

There's been a concerted effort to return IT professionals to the back office instead of the boardroom where they were making inroad and steering decisions on a regular basis throughout the 1990's. A large part of that has involved getting a compliant, easily manipulated group of low paid workers to replace the innovators who preceded them. That's what Wipro and it's ilk are all about- turning IT into a janitorial service, unable to threaten the futures of the established executive management networks that arise from the financial, sales or legal divisions of most companies.

These people hated IT with a passion - largely because it delivered on its early promise so well that information technology actually earned its place in the boardroom rather than had it given to them due to a college fratboy connection. That's largely a thing of the past now, of course. After all, there's nothing more uncomfortable than sitting across from someone who knows you are a fraud. The first rule of corporate power is to never share it. The second rule is to take it away from those who cannot keep it. That's what happened to IT here, in a nutshell.

[Pavulon]

19. In some shops..

that is exactly the case. I work for a small engineering company in NC that makes specialized cutting rigs. Technology is integrated and supported as part of the company. I am happy to see lots of shops putting value on technology from the shop floor to the board room.

Ultimately knowledge is value. Change is not what these guys do. They charge money for it and dont like it.

Neglecting IT is a tremendous error and compounds quickly.

[ReadTomPaine]

27. It certainly does compound quickly...

I used to do due-diligence reviews of assets during acquisitions in a company I previous worked for and the stink of a poor IT infrastructure effected the value of the company more than any other single factor. Modern business runs on technology. If almost any other sector of a company has problems, the work day can still proceed to some degree. When IT has serious problems - work stops.

[NashVegas]

75. A Little Balance?

While there is a *lot* of truth in your post - at least in my place of business - it has more to do with the incompetence of management than the necessity of IT.

If you're in IT and you want to be on the board, start your own business or move into something other than IT.

In my industry (radio), IT has been catastrophic for creative professionals and industry honchos still haven't figured out how badly they screwed up in using IT to eliminate jobs.

Haven't you all figured it out yet, that the boardroom's main use for IT is eliminating the necessity for thinking humans at the bottom of the chain - and that once that's done, you won't be necessary, except for those who can run the machines?

[DBoon]

105. If this were an Original Post

I would recommend you for the front page

I have never seen corporate politics summarized so well

American corporations are a form of entitlement for the old-boys network - you go to the right schools, joint the right frats, get a start in daddy's firms and bingo, you get the spot you "deserved" at the top.

It's not just the meritocracy of IT that threatens the old-boy network, it's the flattening effect of many IT innovations that free up informal lateral communications within an organization.

[khaos]

39. i agree that they deserve access..

unfortunately that's not the case. US is a dying empire and in the process of being looted; this is just one example.

also, innovation only comes from a very small percentage of any industry regardless of nationality.

maybe americans in the tech field are below average only in my area. maybe it's just software development ..who knows

[OhioChick]

42. .......

Quote: "maybe americans in the tech field are below average only in my area. maybe it's just software development"

I'm in Software Development, Smart Ass. If I Can Still Hold a Job in Ohio (Unemployment Heaven).....I Must Be Pretty Damn Good at What I Do.

[Pavulon]

48. Yep Our GDP

is 3 times the nearest nation. More than the EU nations as a whole. We invented IT, DARPA moved it along, we have the best in the world here. The best hardware people, and the best software people. This is fact.

Every major IT shop MUST use US technology. Our switches, routers, disk arrays, relational databases, telephone switching, and all high level applications are centered here. Nevermind aerospace and automation.

There are only 4 other countries in the world that even work in that space in any meaningful way.

There are agencies here that have IT budgets more than the GDP of some nations. They do things that will be cutting edge 10 years from now.

This is not a nationalist rant, but a reality check.

As I said I have no problem with specialized visas. If we need a guy to design an chip from who lives in the Ukraine great. We do not need to bring over a doofus to answer the phone and fuck up a service desk call. We have our own doofuses. Pay them first, if we run out, we can call wipro.

[OhioChick]

52. "Pay them first, if we run out, we can call wipro."

Priceless.

[Deja Q]

99. Only if said workers agree with the US...

Otherwise we're inviting in spies, saboteurs, et cetera.

One CANNOT separate economy and national security after a certain point.

Why else is the 3com buyout being fought? ;)

[ChromeFoundry]

51. You, sir, are not as "good" as you think.

To boldly state that all Americans in your area, are below average in SD shows that you are a closed-minded individual. This would make you the person in white boarding sessions that is not open for debating "your" solution. Your "solution" is always the ONLY solution. Maybe when you get planted on your ass a few more time you will come to realize that you do not hold all the answers in the software development world. in my 20+ years of software design and architecture experience, the most valuable lesson I have learned is that there is always more to learn. The most talented individual can learn something from the most dimwitted individual, as long as they have willingness to listen. You are not the best at what you do. If you believe you are, you have a very limited exposure to the outside world. Enjoy your stay in this country, GUEST-worker, there is a replacement is awaiting your job better than you can.

The people that wrote the compiler, programming language, database engine, and OS, which you rely on to perform your tasks... Is much smarter than you are. So pull that head out from your rectum, it is much easier to listen without your ears filled with your own shit.

[girl gone mad]

68. What do you know?

You call Americans "entitled" (read: lazy), when in fact, America has the highest productivity of any nation. Most American college students work and pay for their education. It isn't provided for free from the government.

I've met dozens of H1B's, many with this same delusional notion of educational superiority. Maybe they believe their corporate sponsor's rhetoric. I guess it's better than accepting the reality, which is that they are brought in solely as a means of reducing wages.

[reclinerhead]

73. Get lost

What an arrogant piece of crap you are.

[Codedonkey]

90. uhhh huh....

:eyes:

[Deja Q]

101. You don't. Well,

you're right about innovation. But that's beside the point.

One day, you'll be deemed too expensive too.

[Jim Sagle]

10. Fuck off, traitor.

[superconnected]

20. I was thinking traitor too!

Thank you for saying it!

[khaos]

32. i'm not an american.. just live and work here

}(

have no problem getting work.. there is a reason for that

[Pavulon]

38. I live here

and have no problem getting a job here. I could quit tomorrow and start in germany, china, south korea, or the country you are from. Providing it is industrialized. I could probably displace a person(s) there in the process.

If someone can come in and do my job better, more power to them. That is fair.

However having people come here and kill the jobs that allowed me to learn what I know is wrong.

Plus it is a stupid business practice.

[khaos]

40. congrats; i can relate

i can travel the world and get work anywhere.. but you have to admit that this ability isn't common.

i don't come to kill jobs; just enjoy the place.

[Pavulon]

44. No but the ability is available

and that is common here. Not everyone takes it but they should have an opportunity. I prefer to give US citizens an opportunity before we just fill in the seat with cheap labor.

There are socio economic issues here that can be helped by getting people into fields where they can make a good income.

[hedgehog]

45. "Just enjoy the place"?

Isn't reverse imperialism still imperialism?

[Jim Sagle]

43. You work cheap. That's the reason for that.

My apologies for calling you a traitor. You're a filthy scab.

[OhioChick]

46. True. n/t

[khaos]

47. yeah.. that must be it.

have a great day and good luck w/ all that hostility.

i'm off to dinner @ one of the finest Japanese restaurant's on the west coast.. working cheap has it's benefits, doesn't it

;-)

[ChromeFoundry]

54. be sure to...

order the blowfish all you can eat plater. There is a RCG awaiting the open position.

;)

[Pavulon]

55. Fugu...

LD50= 5-8µg/kg (ie fits on a pin head)

Peter Gibbons: You're gonna lay off Samir and Michael?
Bob Slydell: Oh yeah, we're gonna bring in some entry-level graduates,
farm some work out to Singapore, that's the usual deal.
Bob Porter: Standard operating procedure.
Peter Gibbons: Do they know this yet?
Bob Slydell: No. No, of course not. We find it's always better to fire people on a Friday.
Studies have statistically shown that there's less chance of an incident if you do it at the end of the week.


Milton Waddams: And I said, I don't care if they lay me off either,
because I told, I told Bill that if they move my desk one more time, then, then I'm, I'm quitting,
I'm going to quit. And, and I told Don too, because they've moved my desk four times already this year,
and I used to be over by the window, and I could see the squirrels, and they were married, but then,
they switched from the Swingline to the Boston stapler, but I kept my Swingline stapler because it
didn't bind up as much, and I kept the staples for the Swingline stapler and it's not okay because
if they take my stapler then I'll set the building on fire...

[OhioChick]

58. We Need to Talk About Your TPS Reports....

:rofl:

[Manifestor_of_Light]

80. Can I go take a Lumburgh?

:rofl:

[OhioChick]

86. .....

Bill Lumbergh: Ahh, I'm going to have to go ahead and ask you to come in on Sunday, too...
:rofl:

[Deja Q]

95. The sad part is, most of us don't even begin to ask for VP salaries...

or whatever the media claims everyone wants. That's a load of manure.

Cost of living, education, and means to continue learning. Especially cost of living, nobody is being exploited if their countries' economies are booming. :think:

With a counselor even saying it's stupid to get education for fields being offshored, those who say there is a problem with "qualified American workers" don't realize where the CORE problems are. I not continuing education in said fields is akin to a problem, I'll agree, but in reality it is a symptom of a bigger problem. Address the core problem, and the rest will fall into place.

We need a "reset button" of sorts in America if we are to remain competitive. And that has more to do than just workers' costs. Like Hillary once said (paraphrased), Americans will be competitive if they choose to be. But there is so much that needs to be equated, or else one would proverbially be driving the wrong way on the freeway. The collision would hurt.

[Codedonkey]

91. *cough* wind up merchant *cough*

[USA_1]

15. IT College Degrees With Internships Are Desirable

Therefore, no additional foreign workers are needed.

However, if you wish to give up your job for the benefit of some overseas applicant, please feel free to do so. :)

[ReadTomPaine]

18. That "sense of entitlement" you're referring to is called "worker's rights"

and "fair wages".

That's one aspect of America I'd be happy to export.

[ChromeFoundry]

33. Internships are key in solving this mess...

US companies can bring in CS or Eng. Majors as IT interns. Both profit from the experience. The company receives a semi-talented intern at less of a cost than a full-time hire, and has the ability to hone the student's skills to meet their needs. The intern receives valuable skills that have a strong potential to lead to FT employment after graduation.

This also solve the impeding language barrier that is all to commonly found within the H1B market. Companies somehow feel that by hiring an H1B with a laundry list of skills/programming-languages (which cannot be verified), they are getting more quality for the cost. Fact is that 90% of H1Bs are RCGs with the added handicap of language difficulties and cultural differences. The other 10% lost their sponsorship and are seeking a new sponsor.

[high density]

49. The problem is few in corporate America want to hire entry level people

So all of these new graduates are in a catch-22 situation. They need experience to get a job, but nobody wants to give them a chance. People need to be able to start somewhere and earn some sort of a living at the same time.

I went to college in Maine and the number of internships available in the computer science field was practically zero. Plus I don't think students really have time to screw around with internships while they're in school anyway.

[Pavulon]

53. They should not fill

entry jobs, like help desk and support, with outsourced bodies. They are where people learn, you get a chance to screw up and work with other guys who teach. If they outsource that to india they will never get experienced people.

I worked an internship at NC state, while finishing up an NG stint, and carrying 12 hours. It was worth it. At the time messing with someone elses fucked up g code was annoying. However I got my foot in the door.

I recommend it.

[high density]

56. I probably would have taken an internship had one been available

But they just weren't there. After graduation, job hunting was incredibly painful until I lucked out through an obscure happenstance of networking and found a small business that took me in, albeit for absolute crap pay. However it was a job I enjoyed doing and it helped me build my resume.

[Pavulon]

59. That is how it is supposed to work..

if there is some moron from india (or wherever) who is happy to work for crap and never wants to do anything other than sit in that chair it screws the guys and gals coming up out of a chance to get a foot in the door.

I hope it works out for you.

[Trajan]

57. This is bullshit ....

I have got to laugh at the 'undesireables' comment ....

Seems might be a few here in this thread ....

A US Education rarely exists for anyone other than the damned lucky or the damned rich .... I would like to see millions of poor teenagers given the opportunity to attend college and get a 'US education' ....

Then we wouldnt have to ask external countries for educated workers to fill a need we can fill ourselves ...

[thunder rising]

61. Oh yeah, like being an American and earning a living wage; those entitlements?

[Deja Q]

93. "sense of entitlement". Would you describe, in absolute detail, what that means?

Thank you.

[superconnected]

12. "vote republican and we lose more jobs" WRONG

Vote democrat and we lose just as many jobs.

And yeah I'm voting dem anyway.

Hillary and Obama are corportatist who plan to do NOTHING to turn back nafta's trade regulations - higher tarrifs etc.

They are as bad as BILL CLINTON who helped the corporations right along to outsource and take up factories in other countries and sell back to us ever cheaper after not using our labor.

The dems are equally as guilty as the repukes on this one. The corporations are the people who bought hillary and obama likely FOR this reason - getting more h1 visa's, and even better deals for producing things outside the country and selling them back.

Don't blame it on the republicans only or we won't be able to fix it. We have to oust the turncoats from the dem party or we will NEVER get nafta turned around.

[OhioChick]

13. Sadly Enough....

I Have to Agree.

[USA_1]

66. ``We have to oust the turncoats from the dem party``

Job totals increased and the middle class enjoyed a massive expansion under Clinton.

While it is true, as you say, that he had a hand in NAFTA I think it is because he was acquiescing to the Pukes and their contract on America. If he had a Dem majority, I do not believe he would have signed off on NAFTA. I could be wrong but am certain that my point is correct.

At any rate, both Dems and Pukes are now completely disgusted with the loss of jobs overseas and the needless importing of foreign workers when they are not needed and when their presence depresses domestic wages. On that basis, I am confident that we can work together to preserve our jobs once Bush leaves office.

[Deja Q]

102. What if Hillary cannot follow suit?

She sounds commanding and has leadership qualities, but what if she can't do the act her hubby had? That's my worry, and perhaps I should stop worrying and have faith. Ditto for the rest of us.

And, yes, I know plenty of Republicans who are disenchanted with the offshoring as well. I refuse to be one-dimensional, militant, or anything else. There are other perspectives to think about. And there are times I'm wrong too.

[Deja Q]

92. How will Dem candidates address the offshoring problem?

[Pavulon]

94. Offshoring is one thing. This will continue..

however giving h1b to a guy to come sit at my desk and try to do my job for 1/3 my salary and no benefits is not acceptable.

If there is a better guy or gal here who wants to compete for my job fine.. However using a visa that is designed to find specialized talent as a general method to attack us jobs is stupid, and imho, destructive to the industry as a whole.

[Deja Q]

104. I am inclined to agree.

As for training, it does make a person sick, but then I suppose it's almost gratifying when the cheap replacement screws things up.

[2Design]

4. no shortage - just don't want to hire americans n/t

[ReadTomPaine]

6. If he wants the horns of the bull, I'd say give them to him.

[brentspeak]

17. .

:thumbsup:

[Extend a Hand]

8. now that's a load of crap

My company is laying off IT people now :(
The jobs are being outsourced. There are PLENTY of American IT workers, just not for $10/hour.

[superconnected]

9. Bull shit.

[lovuian]

11. Until IT people get payed like theres a shortage then we will

talk It is full of BS

[Pavulon]

14. I do not understand your post..

IT pay ranges. From very low to very high. There are very specialized IT functions that cross over into engineering and material handling.
Specialization pays. So does a clearance.

[lovuian]

31. So Pay IT people and you will get people for these jobs

I have relatives in IT and they are not getting the pay they deserve

and the company was almost bought out by a Indian company but it staved it off

Computers and programming should stay in America and it should be promoted

Out sourcing has been a Disaster for this country

[Pavulon]

41. I agree.

no estuaries no fishiries. Same logic.

[Deja Q]

97. "offshoring", not "oursourcing", but I agree.

[Deja Q]

96. Learn the meaning of words, please, it's called "paid"...

[supernova]

21. What a crock of shit

of course the outsourcing industry would act like a bunch of Henny Pennys, with them as the central saviors of the the story.

I've worked in IT since the early 90s and I've seen it all.

But, no one does the work I do AS WELL AS I DO. Period.

What do I do?

I write the books, the manuals, and the on-screen helps for all this marvelous technology. I translate everything the engineers can't say into words that everybody else can understand and use and learn.

In short, the engineers might plan it and build it, the marketing team might sell it, BUT I teach the customer HOW TO USE IT.

:headbang:

[The Straight Story]

22. I got 12 years' experience, where are those jobs at?

:)

[Pavulon]

23. RTP...

Depends on what you do... But there are many really good companies here. IT Mecca.

[supernova]

24. I can vouch for that

There are more nerds per capita here than anywhere, perhaps even Silicon Valley. ;-)

:rofl:

[The Straight Story]

25. Well

Ran high tech data centers for 5 years, program in vb.net, good with mssql, perl, general tech work, management, Sun certified systems and network admin, ccna, etc.

Sadly, I have done too much for some people :) Got one job offer for $12/hr here, had an interview today for one way better.

Tech placement places tell me times are tough here.

Lord willing, it will pickup.

[OhioChick]

26. You're Originally From Ohio, Right?

If so, count your lucky stars in the job market. (Esp. IT) There isn't jack-shit here. Fortunately, I'm still working after 7 pay-cuts and 60-80 hour weeks with no overtime pay. I'm a hired whore. :(

[The Straight Story]

30. I am in CA now, Bakersfield

Moving is not an option right now, wife's health care is.

There ARE some good tech jobs here, but as I posted somewhere else the other day - people have not been hiring me because I was overqualified and they are afraid I will leave for more money.

So now I make sure to stress that I won't in interviews :)

[OhioChick]

37. Good Luck to You

And I wish your Wife well.

I come across many jobs that want a shit load of experience but only want to pay 35K.
I've grown to hate the term: "Overqualified."

[Pavulon]

28. Hopefully you will find something that works

the state systems hire when private industry lags and vice versa.

I hope you find something that you enjoy.

[The Straight Story]

34. I will, just frustrating right now

i love tech work, and things are SLOWLY picking up.

[AndyTiedye]

29. With the Dollar Going Down and IT Salaries in India Going Up

It won't pay to send those jobs offshore for very much longer.

Yes, there are some good engineers in India. They are all working for somebody already.
If you want to hire them, you will have to pay them more than their current employer is willing to.

[nilram]

35. yeah, and he's got to pump up the "shortage"

so that he gets more outsourcing gigs for his company. The falling dollar has got to be eating into his sales...

[lovuian]

36. Agreed the dollar going down really makes cheap labor

overseas not cheap

[Christa]

50. Nonsense

My husband is a hight trained and experienced IT worker who has been struggling to get a permanent position for more than 6 years.

Indian companies buy consultation companies out and replace all the American workers with Indian workers, imported from India.

[amandabeech]

88. Time to check with a good employment attorney.

It is likely that these Indian companies are engaged in totally illegal hiring practices.

Really, it's something that a professional organization could take on to provide general advice and referrals to its members.

[haele]

60. More like a shortage of IT workers at Walmart wages...

They're already asking IT workers - who have to re-certify and keep up with the latest technology - to take entry level wages equivalent to receptionist and provide their own benefits at those wages or wait 6 months to get the package the company provides. And that's in companies who are considered "good". Gotta keep that profit margin up, you know.

Haele

[Deja Q]

98. Walmart for us. Goldmine for economies a hemisphere away.

:)

[eilen]

62. Is this similar to the shortage of machinists?

Excuse me, but don't market forces dictate shortages? If they are willing to pay enough, there would be no shortage. So they are complaining there is a shortage of low wage slaves in America. Go figure, someone has to pay those subprime $400,000 mortgages, $40,000 college tuition bills, $900/month health insurance and buy that imported outsourced Chinese crap.

[OhioChick]

63. Another Good Read That Will Pertain to Jobs Being Sent Overseas

Corporations Will Ship 2.4 Million High-Tech and Professional Jobs Overseas by 2015


http://blog.aflcio.org/2007/02/26/corporations-will-ship-24-million-high-tech-and-professional-jobs-overseas-by-2015

[AngryOldDem]

64. No comment on this story, just a word of appreciation to OhioChick.

Thank you for your determination to keep outsourcing in the forefront by calling attention to these stories.

This is a very important issue.

[OhioChick]

65. Thank You...

:toast:

[slipslidingaway]

67. Thanks K&R n/t

[BrightKnight]

69. The only shortage is US IT Jobs!!

Everyday I see more jobs sent to India. More than half of the people I work with every day are in India. Nobody is going to stop globalization but we sure as hell don't need any more visas putting the few of us that are left out of work!

[superconnected]

78. I've been in the same predicament the last 3 years

more than half the people I work with are from india on H1 visas doing jobs people here could do.

[hootinholler]

70. That's why law firms are selling out seminars on how to avoid hiring citizens...

So H1B visa holders can be hired. They teach how to pay lip service to the law by documenting unfitness in candidates.

The shortage is bullshit.

-Hoot

[tanyev]

71. Oh, really? My husband's company just laid off several thousand

because they were moving all those jobs to China. That's several thousand fewer jobs here, and several thousand people looking for a new job that is still here.

[Lost4words]

72. lying ass holes!

[CK_John]

74. I agree, the IT programs in this country are turning out cable splicers, while in India they are

learning how to write BIOS code.

[Xithras]

83. Bull. I teach IT.

Programming specifically. My students end the semester with a solid understanding of software development in multiple languages. It takes years to get really proficient, of course, but it is being taught. The instructor a few rooms down teaches everything from Asm to embedded HW programming.

The skills are being taught.

[Centered]

76. They are NOT Lying... THERE IS A SHORTAGE

In India...

[OhioChick]

77. Likely True!

:rofl:

[harun]

87. My organization has outsourced people in India, Brazil, Philippines, Spain

and the UK, just to name the ones I know of. Not all of those are inexpensive labor by any means.

I think the reasons for this are primarily:

* Health Care Costs here compared to everywhere else
* Tax and Accounting benefits to use labor that is not in the U.S.
* Notion that growing the business using more outsourced work is more cost effective

It is more cost effective in some cases but it is because of point 1. The biggest proponents of REAL Universal Coverage (Single Payer), should actually be businesses here in the U.S. It would keep their costs down and take it out of the business equation for them. They wouldn't have to negotiate it with Unions and workers wouldn't be stuck staying places to keep their Health Care. Talent could move around easier and businesses could grow faster.

[Orsino]

79. Another corporate voice for outsourcing...

...demanding more H1-Bs. We need to invest in educating Americans, rather than abetting the corporations in their quest for cheaper labor.

[antigop]

81. Thanks to OhioChick for continuing to shed light on the outsourcing issue.

:toast:

[OhioChick]

85. Thanks antigop!

You've done a good job, yourself! :toast:

[Xithras]

82. I teach CompSci. There is no shortage.

Lot's of people willing to work in IT for decent pay. The problem is that these employers require college degrees for the positions and then refuse to pay enough money for a worker to get hired AND pay off their student loans. The average wage for an H1B software developer, for example, is actually about $55,000 to $60,000 a year. That is a very good working wage for someone who didn't have to rack up massive college debt to get the job, but is awful for someone who is looking at paying a mortgage and college loans.

In India, the government pays for college so new IT graduates walk out with no debt and the ability to work cheap. American students leave college saddled with debt that imposes real minimum earnings limits.

[Deja Q]

103. OMG, someone sees the truth!!

:applause:

Pay should match the cost of the education. That's common sense. Nobody I know of asks for a Corporate Vice President's salary for a job; why those dim bulbs on CNN (like Nadira Hira, the woman with the name of a cartoon character) claim as such, I do not know.

Hell, I'd develop for $55~60k/yr. I'm not a programmer mentality, but I can spot errors in setups reasonably well enough. It's called "support" and there is a place for us too.

Do you have a link re: Indian government subsidies (aka "welfare")? I know Indians are getting a good deal, having read some articles off zdnet a few years ago, but I did not know their own government is helping... along with ours... is India the 51st state?

[Buns_of_Fire]

84. Hmmmph. Personally, I invite Mr. Premji to kiss my outsourced IT ass. n/t

[rosetta627]

89. Same propaganda every year

"Shortage" is resolved with low wage visa holders while desperate Americans go unemployed.
The race to the bottom continues.

[LiberalEsto]

100. There is NO shortage

There are just corporations unwilling to pay IT workers enough to live on.