Guns, 'anarchist book' found in motel

[lligrd]

Source: Associated Press

LAS VEGAS - Police say firearms and an "anarchist type textbook" were found in the same Las Vegas motel room where the deadly toxin ricin was discovered.

Authorities say the room was most recently occupied by a man who has been in critical condition with breathing problems at a hospital for more than two weeks.

Police say there is no apparent link to terrorist activity, and no indication of any spread of the deadly substance beyond the several vials of powder found in a plastic bag in the man's room on Thursday. But what the ricin was doing there remained a mystery. A pinprick of ricin is enough to kill.



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080301/ap_on_re_us/motel_hazardous_material

---

Not a terrorist, an anarchist with guns? Do they mean a Republican? One of Rove's friends getting ready to send letters to the Dems again?

[Blue State Bandit]

1. This story reaks.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

2. I agree.

anarchists and ricin does not compute.

edit: speling

[lligrd]

4. No Kidding

First they find it innocently in a hotel room and it didn't belong to the person in the room. Then, days later we find out the last occupant is in the hospital (but will probably be okay) and one of his friends or relatives (why the police can't answer this simple question is beyond me) found it while picking up his stuff. Still, they said it didn't belong to the guy. Now we find out that there were guns and an instruction book and the guy is in a coma. :wtf:

[OKthatsIT]

55. They planted that book and gun. Anarchist, indeed

[peacetalksforall]

3. Is someone being set up?

[Wilms]

5. Perhaps.

And that, quite possibly, is us.

[Occulus]

6. I bet the police version of an "anarchist-type textbook" is not the same as mine. n/t

[krkaufman]

10. I suspect they're referring to 'The Anarchist Cookbook' ...

... but are, wisely, shying away from specifics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Anarchist_Cookbook

http://www.amazon.com/Anarchist-Cookbook-William-Powell/dp/0974458902/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204353195&sr=8-1

[Occulus]

31. I had a copy of that book once.

The original "real" version, that is, not the fake, watered down one. It's my understanding the original had some stuff in it that really shouldn't be general knowledge, but what exactly the whole flap was currently escapes me.

[krkaufman]

59. Oops. I suspect your on a list somewhere, then. : )

Yeah, I have a hard time believing there'd be much controversial information in it, nowadays, if it's being sold on Amazon.

[TomClash]

43. I don' think there is information on Ricin in the old Anarchist Cookbook nt

[McCamy Taylor]

7. All we know from this story is the guy in the ICU isn't Muslim. If he was Mukasey would be on TV

screaming about how the sky is falling.

They can fingerprint the book and the vials and establish possession.

Maybe the guy in the hospital has been lawyered up by his family, so the police are being careful how they proceed with the case. If he has been on life support for two weeks, he might be brain dead and going no where, in which they have all the time in the world.

Only reason anyone would have ricin is to sell it or to use it to kill people. Only reason anyone who has ricin would have an instruction book and would open the stuff is if he was planning to use it. Since this is Vegas, it might not have been terrorism. It might have been an assassination. I doubt suicide. Why would he need 5 vials? The police may know something about the guy that makes them think he had a certain target rather than a general plan to create havoc.

In the SW, ricin poisoning would look like Hanta Virus in a healthy person, I guess. The only thing that I would want to be sure about is that he has not been studying the plans for the Democratic Convention in Denver.

[lligrd]

8. I Wonder If They Found An Envelope With Rove's

return address on it.

[krkaufman]

9. Our greatest protection against terrorism, it would seem, is their incompetence. n/t

[krkaufman]

11. Wait. We're labeling environmentalists "eco-terrorists" ...

... but this guy just gets labeled an anarchist? Double-plus-bulls**t.

[seriousstan]

13. Which environmentalists? The ones that burn shit down or the ones that blow shit up?

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

15. You betcha, Stan.

All environmentalists burn shit down or blow shit up.

Rather wide brush you got there, bubba.

[krkaufman]

16. Take your pick.

Are you terrorized by the vandalism and destruction of property? Is either group targeting civilians for death, or, for that matter, anyone?

[BadgerLaw2010]

52. The tactic is by definition terrorism. It's political violence seeking to intimidate.

[krkaufman]

60. By whose definition?

A stark line needs to be drawn between those committing property damage and those targeting human life.

[salin]

27. I think the reference is to a list put out by the state department (?) a few years ago on "domestic

terrorist groups" that listed the more extreme enivornmental groups - and branched (if I recall correctly) to less extreme groups, but strangely did not mention ANY rightwing groups such as storm front, KKK, militia groups etc. At that time folks pointed out that the "list" was very slanted, and focused on groups that targeted property damage, not violence to people and included (again if I recall correctly) groups that had similar goals (as in environmentalist) but no such activities - while not mentioning a single rightwing group some of which have engaged in violence against people (think... Oklahoma City bombing).

[seriousstan]

12. A moron made ricin and killed himself...well, not yet. Even if his aim was terrorism..

let's just be thankful that the average terrorist is one ignorant mouth breathing throw back.

[robert yates]

14. I'm an anarchist with guns.

And I'll bet the farm that whatever "textbooks" they found on this guy -- if they had anything to do with violence or "ricin" or anything of the sort -- aren't really "anarchist" textbooks, any more than the "Anarchist Cookbook" really has anything to do with legitimate anarchist beliefs.

I could write a book about bomb-making and blowing up churches and shit, and call it the "Atheists Field Manual"....

[lligrd]

17. Or "Rove's Guide To Stealing Elections"

for that matter.

[lynnertic]

25. oh no look don't go giving people ideas like that

way to creep me out yates, once again I'm reminded that DU is not bedtime reading!!
:scared:
"I could write a book about bomb-making and blowing up churches and shit, and call it the "Atheists Field Manual"...."

[Ian David]

40. It's a reference to a publication called "The Anarchist's Cookbook."

Don't know if it was actually written by or for Anarchists, but that's the correct title the author gave it.

[troubleinwinter]

18. It's so bizarre, it's paractically funny, but not.

Firearms and an "anarchist type textbook" were found in the same motel room where several vials of the deadly toxin ricin was found, police said Friday.

(Deputy Chief) Suey said... "that he was not currently a suspect."

WTF? Firearms and an anarchist textbook, ricin and castor beans, but he's not a suspect? Why not?

Suey said there were several pets in the room when officers arrived. A dog was found dead but the animal had gone at least a week without food or water, Suey said, and she did not attribute the death to ricin.

Exactly HOW does she not "attribute" it to ricin? It does not say that 'tests prove negative for ricin'.

Mighty strange.

[lligrd]

19. And What Other Pets Were There

and how are they? Poor reporting or poor police work?

[McCamy Taylor]

20. Animal probably did die of ricin. Toilet bowl had water. Starving dog would bark, alert motel staff.

Starvation alone would take longer than a week to kill a dog. And if there were "pets" then if one dog died of ricin, the others would have fed off the corpse of the dead dog while they were locked up in the room and drunk toilet water, which would have kept them quiet.

If the guy had 5 vials of ricin, a book on how to use it and a firearm and is in a motel room, chances are he is a "pro"--or at least smart enough to know to keep the stuff out of his house. The dogs are for protection.

Possible scenario---he was handling the ricin with care, a dog upset whatever he was doing and both man and dog were exposed. He got sick and was rushed to the hospital. Dog died of the poison in the room.

Police might hush it up if he were a contract hit man same as if he were a government agent, so there might be no need for general alarm.

[muriel_volestrangler]

26. Door to the toilet might have been closed

It's quite possible for a dog to die of thirst in a motel room.

[LeftyMom]

54. I just stayed there a few months ago.

The layout is that there's a inner bathroom with a toilet and bathtub, a doorway to an outer bathroom with the sink and vanity, another doorway to the bedroom and still another leading to the living room and kitchen. If any of those doors were shut an animal on the other side could easily die of thirst.

As for the suggestion upthread about barking? It's kinda downmarket, and a sprawling complex where the hotel room can be a good five minutes walk from the office. Not to mention people mostly just use the rooms as crash pads and spend their day doing touristy stuff on The Strip. It's quite possible nobody noticed anything amiss or alerted the staff until there was an odor of decay.

[Ian David]

42. He could have used the dog to test the Ricin. n/t

[Ian David]

41. Maybe the guy found the Ricin, thought it was cocaine, and snorted it?

Or tasted it to see if it made his tongue go numb, and that was enough to kill him?

[McCamy Taylor]

21. K&R on the off chance this is the Watergate burglary of the 2008 election season.

See my notes above for the inconsistencies in the police story.

Someone should see whom the family has called for financial and legal advice.

[lligrd]

23. I Saw And Agree

Something funny going on here.

[sce56]

22. Well looks like its about time for the GOP to bring out the winning card for elections Terrorist

Threat!

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[acmavm]

28. And we have a winner for the smarmiest, most ignorant Obamite fan post

of the week.

[Ian David]

45. As a fellow Obama supporter, I reject, rebuke and disavow him. n/t

[Chovexani]

48. Complete with requisite grammatical error

Somebody's going to have to make a bingo card at this point.

[onehandle]

30. Fuck you.

I'm not a Hillary supporter, but that was totally uncalled for.

[Ian David]

44. You should go engage in a solitary exercise of your rights under Lawrence v. Texas.

BTW, I'm an Obama supporter.

[Chovexani]

49. Ian, I love you in ways that are possibly still illegal.

:rofl:

[Ian David]

51. Aww, thanks!

:blush:

[Warren Stupidity]

29. That would most likely be the 'Anarchist Cookbook'

which has been around for almost 40 years and the possession of which in no way implies that the owner is actually an anarchist. The book contains a lot of frequently dubious information about how to make and do various things that are not particularly legal.

[slackmaster]

35. Or perhaps the US Army Improvised Munitions Handbook

[Ian David]

46. I used to have that book when I was in 8th grade! n/t

[truthisfreedom]

32. "Police say there is no apparent link to terrorist activity..." well, except for the Ricin, guns,

and the anarchist-type textbook. "TEXTBOOK?" As if there's classes taught on anarchy?

The police's RUSH to claiming "no terrorism" is nauseating, at best. I think bushco is very sad today.

[FarCenter]

33. Roger Von Bergendorff -- Might be a Prussian Moose-Limb?

http://www.lvrj.com/news/16142962.html

"Police have not identified the man, but a Homeland Security internal document obtained by the Review-Journal states that he is Roger Von Bergendorff."

[hisownpetard]

34. Nothing in this story makes sense.

What kind of "pets" were in the room, beside the dead dog - cockroaches?
The friend or relative found the vials, but the police didn't?
The friend reported the dead pet but not the ricin?
Do "transients" or homeless people usually own firearms?
Was it "two vials" of ricin or "several"?

"We don't even know that it was him that was in possession of the ricin."
Suey said she could not say how much ricin was in the vials.

OK? Any further questions should be addressed to the Ministry of Unknown Science.*

* http://tmous.com/

[mike_c]

36. what? doesn't everybody keep vials of ricin in their hotel rooms...?

Ricin. Don't leave home without it.

[bluerum]

37. Really. How do you just "find" ricin. Someone had reason to do a chemical

analysis of the contents in this room. That someone is not being forthright with the facts in this story.

Trying to spook the peeps I say. Got to pass that phone company amnesty law, or else you will all die horrible painful deaths.

[lumberjack_jeff]

38. I'm reminded of the old Steve Martin SNL sketch.

"Ricin? Guns? Anarchist screeds found in a Las Vegas hotel room? Maybe, just maybe he might have had ill intent. Maybe the Ricin was intended to create a climate of fear. Terror, even. Perhaps this man is a terrorist.


Naaaah."

[Ian David]

39. He's obviously a White Christian Republican, or else he'd be in the hospitsal at Gitmo by now. nt

[Ian David]

47. "...suggested he was exposed to a powder fine enough to float in the air."

Greg Evans, director of the Institute for Biosecurity at Saint Louis University in Missouri, said the man's respiratory illness suggested he was exposed to a powder fine enough to float in the air.

"If he went to the hospital with difficulty breathing, he actually inhaled it," Evans said. "For some reason, he opened the vial and it must have been aerosolized."

I suppose it's possible he made it and exposed himself to it by accident.

Or, he found it, opened it to see what it was, maybe smelled it.


Multiple vials would probably contain enough ricin to sicken many people if it was spread, for example, around a buffet table or sprayed in a closed room.


Thanks, Associated Press, for putting that suggestion out there.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080301/ap_on_re_us/motel_hazardous_material

[navarth]

50. This story DOES reek. k & r

It worries me. How much traction is this getting in the corp. Media? We are far far from the bottom of this.

[struggle4progress]

53. Related LBN threads:

Man Critical After Ricin Find In Vegas
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=3204437

Initial Tests: Ricin Found at Las Vegas Hotel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=3203690

[FarCenter]

58. Las Vegas "Review Journal" -- Woman: Man in ricin case 'a loner'

http://www.lvrj.com/news/16160482.html


A hospitalized man whose hotel suite was found to contain the poison ricin "barely got by in life," said a woman on Saturday who knew him when he lived at a Utah home that agents want to search. A down-on-his-luck Roger Von Bergendorff lived at the home of his cousin Thomas Tholen for more than a year before moving to Las Vegas about a year ago, said Tammy Ewell, who lives across the street from Tholen in Riverton, Utah.

...

Ewell, Von Bergendorff's former neighbor, said she often saw him walking his German shepherd on the street. It wasn't clear what he did for a living or how he spent his time.

Toward the end of his stay, he started attending the local Mormon church and briefly moved out of the Tholen home into a neighbor's camper, she said.

Tholen is a former art teacher who sells insurance with his wife, she said.

"The Tholens were the last ones we'd expect anything to happen to," Ewell said.

...

[MilesColtrane]

56. "anarchist type textbook"?

Sounds like the Gideons are tired of turning the other cheek.

Or, is this just an example of niche marketing by a hotelier?

What other services do they provide the tired terrorist on a business trip?

Free Al Jazzeera and Fox?...Free dry cleaning for suicide bomb vests?...Complimentary turndown and ammo resupply service?...Free copy of "The Turner Diaries" along with your continental breakfast?

[FarCenter]

57. Gideon checked out

and left it no doubt,

to help with poor Rodger's revival.