16,000 Republicans in Cuyahoga crossed over and voted Democratic in primary

[Algorem]

Source: Plain Dealer

16,000 Republicans in Cuyahoga crossed over and voted Democratic in primary
Sunday, March 09, 2008
Amanda Garrett
Plain Dealer Reporter

A staggering 16,000-plus Republicans in Cuyahoga County switched parties when they voted in last week's primary.

That includes 931 in Rocky River, 1,027 in Westlake and 1,142 in Strongsville. More than a third of the Republicans in Solon and Bay Village switched. Pepper Pike had the most dramatic change: just under half its Republicans became Democrats. And some of those who changed - it's difficult to say how many - could be in trouble with the law.

At least one member of the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections wants to investigate some Republicans who may have crossed party lines only to influence which Democrat would face presumed Republican nominee John McCain in November.


Those who crossed lines were supposed to sign a pledge card vowing allegiance to their new party...



Read more: http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/120505162549970.xml&coll=2

[Doug.Goodall]

1. It is a statement of Republican insecurity

Republicans know they are going to lose the White house to a Democrat. This is just one more indication that they are so desperate that they will be deceitful in the primary in an attempt to influence the election.

Obama is going to be our next President, by a wide margin.

[rpannier]

2. Now what you'll hear at DU is:

Obama supporters if these people voted for Sen Obama:

This shows just how popular Obama is. These people clearly love Sen Obama and this is why he should be the nominee

Clinton supporters if these people voted for Sen Clinton:

This shows that Clinton's leadership and expertise has won over these republikkans. That she is the one that people trust and she should be the nominee.

Clinton supporters if these people voted Obama:

They voted for Obama because they know how weak Obama is and that McCain will bury him in November.

Obama supporters if these people voted Clinton:

They voted for Clinton because they know McCain will bury her in November.

[zanne]

9. I'm an Obama supporter and that's not what I was thinking.

When a scumbag like Rush Limbaugh is up to his dirty tricks, I stick to my side of the political fence. We're all Democrats first.

[PATRICK]

14. The only trouble with that

is that as this race has gone on the chief GOP mischief strategy is to a) keep the contest divisely going
by propping Hillary and b) getting the sufficiently wounded Hillary in over Obama. I think "b" is a dream
but they definitely can make hay with "a" for present. If this were the early stages of the campaign all the other suspicions were as evenly speculative as anything else. Now though, it does seem(opinion only) that barack is getting not only honest GOP crossovers but enthused ones that hint that a lot more disgruntled GOP voters and Independents will at least vote for the top of our ticket. Conversely, no matter how many GOP voters are honestly going with Hillary, it would seem that her crossovers are purely motivated in getting to kick her around in November and a large number of other GOP voters will come out of the woodwork against all of us in November.

You would think someone would do a poll on this but overall the GOP crossover numbers are slippery and small and a new phenom for our troubled pollsters. Also the suggested deceit practiced by the double motive crossovers gives a blanket of doubt ipso facto.

The interference in our race swiftly crashed after Edwards dropped out and McCain began his coronation march. The GOP was taken aback by having to deal with the actual schmuck they had to settle on. There were no three ways to game and- despite all the drama- something else became clear.

The elephantine Hillary inevitability was collapsing like a giant balloon with the desperation and motivation of those manning the air pumps becoming very obvious. The Obama campaign was well run, soldily tested, alone on the growth front and a logical lock on the nomination. Attempts to derail, slow or change the process has only succeeeded in prolonging the agonies, the irritations. In sum total
in retrospect it will be seen, depending on what the HRC campaign ends up as, more good than harm has been done to the Obama presidential campaign(few campaigns in our history have been so demonstrably tested and that is what a newbie needs above all). Th malice intended by the GOP has devolved on what little election fixing, media spin, control over Hillary haters(who will have lost all that motivation by June, we hope) can do to prolong the primary. As with McCain, and Obama candidacy will simply have them gasping over the defeat of their main schemes and having to deal with positively motivated GOP defections.

The grim sum total is as clear as the steady but frustratingly slow progression ofObama toward an enthusiastic nomination. If this holds on, the HRC campaign and all the big money props in both parties, and the GOP controls will be left begging- with a bagful of negatives and dropping power. That, because the Obama campaign is still building up in exactly the other direction, its pressue increasing BECAUSE of their resistance.

I would think it would be more productive if HRC were to extricate herself from her current role, but with all her backers drowning in the Rubicon behind her, the spoils of defeat are becoming shockingly small. Building a case based on slowing down the process of losing is ONLY a GOP dream now. We can snap out of it anytime or calmly, with confidence and realism take it all to June.

[rpannier]

69. Agree with you on pretty much on everything, except

I did not consider him 'tested.'

The Clinton machine tested him in Ohio and Texas.
He got caught off-guard and now he seems to be recovering.

My only real concern about him winning the nomination has been alleviated.
Having never been truly tested on a large stage -- the guy beat Alan Keyes in the Senate -- race left me wondering about what he would do when he was under real fire -- You know, the kind that destroyed Dukakis and went after Kerry.

I am solidly behind him should he get the nomination (I'm still officially Edwards until the convention). And by solidly, I mean, I will donate money and talk him up to people -- I live in Asia so I'm limited in what I can do.

[Wabbajack_]

24. Spot on

[roseBudd]

31. Most Rs are so conditioned to hate Ds my bet is election tampering is a big slice

Plus most white Rs are not suffering economically, so tampering in a primary where they had no reason to vote for their nom except with a protest Huck vote.

This definitely occcured in SW OH GOP exurb counties. Enquirer did 2 A1 stories on this

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

52. OH Papers reporting they voted for Hillary:

here's post by Moritz College of Law Professor:


Edward B. Foley Director, Election Law at Law Moritz College of Law advises that

Blogs at both the Plain Dealer and Dispatch are reporting Republican cross-over votes in the Democratic candidate for Senator Clinton on the ground that she would be an easier nominee for Senator McCain to beat. It is unclear how widespread this phenomenon is and whether, if calculable, could make a difference in either the statewide total popular vote or the awarding of delegates between Senators Clinton and Obama. There is also the question whether it is legal, and if not, whether it is remediable in any way....

http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/freefair/articles.php?ID=367

[barbtries]

3. it's been a good news weekend

mixed in with the usual bad. thanks for posting

[no_hypocrisy]

4. Skeptic that I am, I wonder if this block of republics was told to cross over and vote

for a particular democrat in order for them to choose our candidate for November.

[zanne]

6. Further down in the artcle, it says Rush Limbaugh urged them. nt

[TheCowsCameHome]

10. That should give a clue - they're brain-dead.

[Cirque du So-What]

12. Yes, they were instructed to vote for Hillary Clinton

This article originated from the Cinci Enquirer and got picked up by a number of other papers throughout Ohio; I first saw it in my small-town (~25,000) paper. It's one thing when OxyRush or somesuch RW windbag tells 'pugs to vote for Clinton - quite another when it comes from party leaders.

Ohio Republicans pulling for Clinton to win
If she's Dems' nominee, GOP faithful think she'll unite GOP

BY HOWARD WILKINSON | [e-mail]

One of the worst-kept secrets of the Ohio presidential primary is that Republican Party leaders have a candidate they are rooting for on the Democratic side.

Her name is Hillary Rodham Clinton; and they believe that if she wins the Ohio primary and goes on to become the Democratic nominee, she will be the one who unites their dispirited and divided party and gives them their best chance of keeping the White House this fall.

It is a belief that the Clinton campaign says is wrong; and they will campaign across the state for the next three weeks making the argument that their battle-tested, experienced candidate is the only one who can go toe-to-toe with John McCain, the presumptive GOP nominee.

She'll need to do some convincing, fast.

For Clinton, Ohio's March 4 primary is looking more critical.

With his sweep of the "Potomac Primaries" Tuesday night, Barack Obama has won eight primaries and caucuses in a row. Clinton enters the sprint for the two big March 4 states - Ohio and Texas - ahead in the polls, but she desperately needs wins in both states.

more...

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080214/NEWS01/802140346/1056/COL02

Although the article goes on to cite only a couple of party leaders at the county level, we know that the 'pugs at the local level don't do anything without receiving orders from headquarters, so the Clinton GOTV effort originated higher up the food chain.

[roseBudd]

43. And the day after OH Enquirer also did an A1 on heavy SW OH exurb crossover AND

those counties went for Clinton.

Same counties people that cheated for Bush in '04

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

53. Bill Clinton was on Rush Limbaugh Show that Day

Limbaugh has been telling his listeners to cross over day before the Texas and Ohio primaries,
and Bill Clinton was guess on Limpballs show morning of Primary.

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/03/wtf-bill-clinton-on-rush-limba.php

[zanne]

5. Isn't that the Republican way?

If they can't win, they cheat.

[TheCowsCameHome]

7. How smart will they feel if a Dem wins in Nov. because of their crossover?

Not too, I'll bet.

[emanymton]

8. Very Good News!! Do It Once, Will Do It Again.

.

The other party has no viable candidate. Those who voted for a member of the Democratic Party will not have any problem doing it again.

I believe most people want USA to work. The solution for these people is not to be found in the other political party. Many will not return to the failures of the other party.

Now it is up to the Democratic Party to do the correct thing for the people by leading USA back to the light.

.

[DRoseDARs]

11. Is Ohio 1 of those states where the repukes are screwed for the next 2 or so years for R primaries?

That, because they changed their party affiliation, they won't be allowed to participate in Republican primaries for 2 or more years?

[POAS]

13. Checked Ohio SOS office and found this

How do I establish which political party’s ballot I am entitled to vote?

You may vote the primary ballot of the political party with which you currently wish to be affiliated. If you voted the primary ballot of a different political party in 2005 or 2006, you will complete a statement at your polling place confirming the change in your political party affiliation.

Sounds to me as though you could switch back if you simply sign another statement but I don't have the exact law pertaining to this at hand.

[Habibi]

15. It sounds that way to me, too,

and if so, it's an absurd way to do things. In New York you have to declare your party affiliation in order to vote in the primary, and you then have to wait until the next election cycle to change it. Keeps the mischief down; I don't know why this isn't the law everywhere.

[Maeve]

16. How this worked in Franklin County

Basically, we just told the voter to check which party's ballot they wished to vote that day; no signing statements, no check of how they voted previously--an open primary. They won't change parties until the next primary, because there is no point--it doesn't matter in the least in the general election. Yes, you can change as you want. We did have people say, "Well, I'm usually independent, but..." and they chose one or the other. (only 2 or 3 out of 300 in our precinct voted issues only)

[bigworld]

17. Pennsylvania has a closed primary

... so we don't have to worry about that as much here.

[VolcanoJen]

27. Thank goodness.

Mississippi, on the other hand, is open, isn't it?

I think we'll see a repeat of this phenomenon Tuesday. :-(

[roseBudd]

44. Yes all you have to do is sign a paper. Remember OH is late enough most don't vote primaries...

I never have.

[POAS]

49. Apparantly you don't even need to do that

if the related experience of a poster above is accurate.

[Ian David]

18. But drug-addled gasbag Rush Limbaugh TOLD them to do that!

And some of them called his radio show and bragged about it afterward, too!

"Mega-dittos Rush, ah did what you said and it was a hoot, ah tell you whot!"

[kikiek]

19. Ohio Democratic voters prefer Clinton to Obama

http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2008/02/ohio_democratic_voters_prefer.html

voters in Ohio and 52 - 36 percent among likely Democratic primary voters in Pennsylvania. These are the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University poll's first surveys in this election cycle of Ohio and Pennsylvania likely voters, a more select group than the wider range of registered voters surveyed in prior polls.

In each state, voters see the economy, not the war in Iraq, as the most important issue.

"Despite her losing streak, Sen. Clinton remains far ahead of Sen. Obama among likely Democratic primary voters in Ohio and Pennsylvania," said Peter Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute.

Measuring the ‘Limbaugh Effect’
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/08/measuring-the-limbaugh-effect/

Mr. Obama actually won among Texas Republicans, who made up nearly twice as much of the voters in the Democratic primary as they did in 2004, at 9 percent, and 53 percent of them went for Mr. Obama, according to voter surveys by Edison/Mitofsky. In Ohio, where Republicans participated at similarly increased rates in the Democratic contest, Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Obama both received 49 percent of the G.O.P. vote.

Mrs. Clinton won the Ohio primary 54.3 percent to Mr. Obama’s 44 percent, and she took the Texas vote with 50.9 percent to 47.4 percent.

[Honeycombe8]

20. It would be helpful to know where Cuyahoga County is...what state. nt

[aquarius dawning]

23. ohio

[aquarius dawning]

21. I don't think they have the organization to influence which candidate we run but...

I do think they have the organization to make sure that our primary doesn't end any time soon and, in all honesty, that probably serves their purposes more so than handing a victory either one of our candidates.I know I like nothing more than to watch my enemies fighting amongst themselves instead of against me.

[Old and In the Way]

22. It sure would be interesting to ask a couple of follow-up questions in these exit polls.

1) If you area Republican, will you vote for the Democratic candidate in Novemeber?
2) If you are a Democrat, will you support the candidate in November?

Why isn't a major polling firm asking these questions? Sure would be insightful in explaining why huge record turnouts in every state are happening. But thatwould interfere with the "Democrats are divided meme".

[BearSquirrel2]

28. Question #1

Question #1 should be

"Do you regularly listen to Rush Limbaugh" - and then let the questioning proceed. These folks know they're being "sneaky" so they are sneaky enough to just lie to exit pollers and tell them they're Democrats.

I think the question above would catch them off guard and get an honest response before the political questioning comes along.

[juajen]

30. You wouldn't be able to tell who was telling the truth. So, useless.

NT

[NinetySix]

25. Sauce for the goose, folks.

There seems to be a lot of indignation in this thread over "dirty tricks" and "cheating" on the part of Republicans. First, if all an Ohio Republican has to do in order to vote in the Democratic primary is to sign a statement indicating his political preference (and presumably sign another shortly thereafter to switch his affiliation back), then the Ohio primary is an open primary for all intents and purposes. It's probably not a very good idea to allow independents and members of a rival party to "assist" Democrats in choosing their nominee, but that's for the Ohio Democratic Party to consider when they make the rules for their own primary.

Secondly, if BFI Rush Limbaugh is urging Republican voters to switch over in this way to vote in the Democratic primary (since their own was largely meaningless), where's the difference between that and Markos urging Michigan Democrats to vote for Mitt Romney (which they did, giving the state to him)?

If I had my preference, I'd like to see EVERYONE vote in EVERY state, and according to his own conscience rather than by some political calculus. That seems to be the ideal way for democracy to proceed, but the ideal state of affairs is by definition forever removed from the actual, practical state of affairs. The rules in place are the rules you have to play by; Abner Doubleday isn't entitled to five strikes just because he invented the game.

Don't blame Republican activists or Rush Limbaugh for a laxity in the rules that can be lain at the feet of the Ohio Democratic Party (or even the legislature). It's a meta-issue, and any complaints on that score sound shrill and feckless. Get the party or the legislators to change the rules within the state if it bothers you. Hell, the more unrest there is regarding the rules about voting, the more likely it will be that the necessary changes to bring about democratization of the system will be brought into effect.

They run unfair ads, we run unfair ads. They rely on lobbyists for fundraising, we rely on lobbyists for fundraising. They spend unjustifyably exorbitant amounts on national elections, we spend unjustifyably exorbitant amounts on national elections.

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Now that that's said, maybe we can focus on cleaning this shit up.



ed: clarity

[VolcanoJen]

26. This is what Ohioans have been yapping about since Wednesday.

It's disturbing to me that this hasn't made bigger news on the national scene.

So, Obama won Ohio's largest, most urban area and county by only 7 points? Everyone can see the problem here, right?

[Irishonly]

29. After the NIghtmare of the Past Eight Years

I don't trust neocons any farther than I could throw an obese elephant. The MSM doesn't distinguish between a neocon and a moderate and I don't think there are any more liberals in the republican party. I believe there are disgruntled republicans crossing over because they support Obama or Clinton and dislike McCain. The neocons could very well be trying to mess with the democratic primaries are delusional enough to think they are. I wish I were as important as Rush believes he is. Can there be that many republicans that have crossed over to influence the primary or the general election considering democrats are turning out in massive numbers?

[OhioChick]

32. I've Said it Before....

The Reb I work with said he/his family were voting for HRC, as they felt that McCain had a better chance against her. Woner how many others did this for the same reason?

[Tippy]

33. My bet is 95% of te repblicans who switched did so for this reason...n/t

[roseBudd]

45. Hubby's R coworker called him that AM to brag about his Clinton vote because "they fear Obama"

[ldf]

50. okay

say they were successful.

IF hillary is the nominee, and i admit that is a big if, what are they going to do if she invites him to be vp, and he accepts. that, essentially, sets the democrats up for 16 years.

they will shit their pants.

[roseBudd]

55. Not if her ability to inflame their base boosts turnout for McCain, there is all types of Clinton

hatred.

Clenis

Pardons of Mark Rich


Clinton allowed 911

Clinton decimated our military

Clinton-care is a socialist plot

Supermarket tabloids and crazies

Hillary is a lesbian

Hillary killed Vince Foster

Her unfavorables are formidable

[mod mom]

34. McCain was the nominee, they wanted to run against Hillary. HERE'S MORE:

Ohio GOP roots for Hillary
BY HOWARD WILKINSON | [e-mail]

One of the worst-kept secrets of the Ohio presidential primary is that Republican party leaders have a candidate they are rooting for on the Democratic side.

Her name is Hillary Clinton, and they believe that if she wins the Ohio primary and goes on to become the Democratic nominee, she will be the one who unites their dispirited and divided party and give them their best chance of keeping the White House this fall.

?
It is a belief that the Clinton campaign says is wrong-headed and they will campaign across the state for the next three weeks making the argument that their battle-tested, experienced candidate is the only one who can go toe-to-toe with John McCain, the presumptive GOP nominee this fall.

She’ll need to do some convincing, fast. For Clinton, Ohio’s March 4 primary is looking more and more critical.

-snip

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080213/NEWS01/302130097



Turned away at poll? Click here
Some are told to wait - or come back later
BY JESSICA BROWN AND BARRETT J. BRUNSMAN | [e-mail] | [e-mail]

-snip
In that heavily Republican county, officials weren't prepared for the high number of Democratic ballots requested. Some voters waited for more than an hour for new ballots to be delivered; others were asked to come back later or asked to go to the county Board of Elections to vote.

The reason: a wave of "crossover" voting, in which normally Republican voters asked for Democratic ballots. In Clermont County, turnout surged to 43 percent Tuesday - compared with just 31 percent in the 2004 presidential primary.

-snip

Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner said there was also a "crossover problem" in Akron and elsewhere in Summit County where many Republicans and non-enrolled Ohioans voted Democratic.

-snip

Of Clermont County's 128,128 registered voters, 37,714 are registered Republicans and 14,496 are registered Democrats. With all precincts counted, 26,279 people had cast Democratic ballots and 28,032 had cast Republican ballots.

Warren County has 12,440 registered Democrats and 41,377 registered Republicans. With all precincts reporting, that county was reporting 27,855 Democratic ballots cast and 28,683 Republican.

-snip
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080305/NEWS01/803050380&template=printpicart


GOP voters crossing over in large numbers
Posted by Tom Ott, Michael Scott, Joe Wagner & Maggi Martin March 04, 2008 14:51PM
Categories: At the polls

Poll watchers throughout Ohio are noting large numbers of Republican voters crossing over to vote in the Democratic Primary between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.

In the Republican roost of Chagrin Falls, veteran poll worker Liz McFadden was amazed at the number of people jumping the party's ship. Democrats accounted for 70 percent of the voters in her precinct, one of seven at the village's high school.

"That's a complete reversal of what it normally is, even more so," she said. "I've never seen a switch like this."

The defectors had motives both pure and sinister.

-snip
http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2008/03/gop_voters_crossing_over_in_la.html

FROM OSU ELECTION LAW:

Cross-over voting under Ohio law

March 4, 2008

?Edward B. Foley
Director, Election Law @ Moritz
Robert M. Duncan/Jones Day Designated Professor of Law
Moritz College of Law


Blogs at both the Plain Dealer and Dispatch are reporting Republican cross-over votes in the Democratic candidate for Senator Clinton on the ground that she would be an easier nominee for Senator McCain to beat. It is unclear how widespread this phenomenon is and whether, if calculable, could make a difference in either the statewide total popular vote or the awarding of delegates between Senators Clinton and Obama. There is also the question whether it is legal, and if not, whether it is remediable in any way.

Although it is widely reported that Ohio permits Republicans to vote in the Democratic primary (and vice versa), that is not technically true. Ohio law does permit voters to switch party affiliation on the day of the primary, but it has a rather awkward mechanism that attempts to ascertain that the switch is sincere—and to prevent insincere “party-raiding” of the kind that (as described above) is being reported today.

Section 3513.19 of the Ohio Revised Code states that it is the “duty” of poll workers in Ohio “to challenge the right of person to vote” in a particular party’s primary if a poll worker “doubts” the person’s eligibility based on the ground (among others) that the person is "not affiliated with or is not a member of the political party whose ballot the person desires to vote.” The same section further specifies that the poll worker is to determine the voter’s previous party affiliation by examining the voting records of the past two years. If those records show the voter to be a Republican, for example, then before giving the voter a Democratic ballot in the current primary, the statute then directs the poll worker to have the voter sign a “statement, made under penalty of election falsification, that the person desires to be affiliated with and supports the principles of the political party whose primary ballot the person desires to vote.”

This statement is supposed to be the test of the voter’s sincerity in switching party affiliation. Section 3513.20 of the Code make clear that a voter who refuses to sign the statement is to receive a provisional rather than regular ballot. Indeed, even if the voter is willing to sign the statement, but the majority of poll workers at the precinct believe the voter is not sincere in switching parties, then the poll workers are to give the voter a provisional rather than regular ballot.

-snip
http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/freefair/articles.php?ID=367

Tuesday, March 4
 
Don't Call Ohio Too Soon
That's my advice to the news media tonight, in the event of a close Democratic primary. As returns start to come in from Ohio this evening, we should keep in mind circumstances that will probably result in more outstanding ballots on Election Night than in other states, and maybe even more than is typical for Ohio. If that's true, a margin that appears insurmountable on paper -- even with all precincts nominally reported -- may actually be smaller than it appears.

Here are the big things that might cause there to be a large number of yet-to-be-counted ballots than usual on election night:

- Provisional Ballots. Ohio heavily relies on provisional ballots, which are used for people who've moved, who don't have required ID, and whose names don't appear on the registration list when they go to vote, among other things. Most of us probably remember the delay in calling the 2004 election, when Bush led Kerry by some 136,000 votes with approximately 158,000 provisional ballots left to be verified and counted. When these ballots were eventually counted, they cut Bush's margin by about 18,000 votes. In November 2006, an even higher percentage of Ohio voters cast provisional ballots, over 3%. In light of Ohio's new ID rules, still not completely familiar to many voters, and potential problems with its statewide registration list, we can expect lots of provisionals today as well. Voters have 10 days after the election to bring in their information, and it will be a while after that before we know how many of the provisionals will be counted and who they're cast for.

- Residual Votes. These are ballots that don't register a valid vote, at least when they're run through automatic tabulators. They include undervotes (a ballot that doesn't register a choice) and overvotes (a ballot that registers more than the allowed number of choices). Both can sometimes result from ambiguous marks with paper-based voting systems, but some of the undervotes may be recoverable through a manual recount. Under Ohio law, a ballot on which a voter circles the candidates name or makes a mark with an instrument that can't be recognized by tabulating equiment should eventually be counted. As I explained in Sunday's post, we can expect a significant number of residual votes in Ohio today, because a large number of voters will be voting with central-count optical scan equipment that doesn't allow voters to check for mistakes before casting their votes. Cuyahoga County will be especially hard hit, but other counties will also be affected given that voters in touchscreen counties are allowed to vote a paper ballot on request. If the race winds up being tight, it will be important to know how many residual votes there are -- especially in the Cleveland area.

-SNIP
http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/blogs/tokaji/2008/03/dont-call-ohio-too-soon.html

[roseBudd]

46. Thanks for this info Mod Mom! This deserves it's own thread in GDP!

[ohio2007]

35. ? How many democrats switched over to vote in the...oh wait.that race was finished long ago

Those who crossed lines were supposed to sign a pledge card vowing allegiance to their new party...
?

Isn't that pledge signing like setting up a voter fraud case in the future ?
ie. you can't vote at all unless....you vote for the "X" party canidate. We can track you down because of this waiver you signed.

[roseBudd]

47. No GE balloting is secret, primary is one sided, R or D ballot

[jordi_fanclub]

36. One cartoon says thousand words... :)

http://cartoonbox.slate.com/jimborgman/

[roseBudd]

48. Here is the link so you can send this cartoon as a postcard to one and all...

http://borgman.enquirer.com/weekly/daily_html/2008/03/030708borgman.html

[Subdivisions]

37. As usual, doing exactly what Rush tells them to do. n/t

[VolcanoJen]

38. Election Fraud in Ohio

Very good article:

http://isaacs.newsvine.com/_news/2008/03/06/1348806-election-fraud-against-obama-in-ohio-more-comes-out

I think we need to have a very, very serious discussion about the Limbaugh Effect going forward.

[liam_laddie]

42. 16,000** 10-W forms should be there, then...

This is the form, according to Hamilton County (Cincinnati) BOE instructions, required for all party switches, NOT for a "non" or independent asking for a party ballot. If a voter hadn't voted in a recent party primary - I think two cycles - they are listed as NON. Very hard to tell how many NONs are R's or true independents. An analysis of certain precincts where a high R vote would be expected, with how many 10-W's were filed, might offer a clue. However, I hear that many counties and many more pollworkers were ignoring the directives. It all comes down to individual honesty...on both sides of the pollworkers' table.
**would likely have to analyze past vote patterns in each precinct to make a case. Not likely to be 16K 10-W's as NONs would not need to fill one out.
Haven't read all the comments, sorry if dupe. 10-W is a form swearing that the voter wishes to switch parties; voter and all pollworkers at that precinct sign the document. There are penalties involved if voter tries to switch back at next primary. Purpose of 10-W is to make illegal such frivolous meddling. Rove, Limbaugh et al may have aided and abetted a crime...I hope!

[roseBudd]

51. Unfortunately a lot of Ohioans have no primary history because March is usually too late, but my dad

did say he had to sign

[liam_laddie]

56. Hi, Rosebud57!

Glad to see you're active in ER. Still at the local rag?

[roseBudd]

57. hi liam_laddie! Shhhhhhh um, yes

[4dsc]

39. Why republicans want Obama(its racist)

Now I got this straight from a conservative GOP supporter in California on my last visit to the state and I was rather shocked by this person commnents.

She clearly stated that she believe's that if Obama was the democratic nominee, that WHITE MALES, when it came time to vote, wouldn't vote for a black candidate for president..

Needless to say, I was dumbfounded by her remarks..

[roseBudd]

54. Anecdotal, as it is one person. Obama is like Michael Jordan & Tiger Woods, to white racists

He is much more palateable. Does anyone doubt Colin Powell could not have won?

Plus the GOP fears charisma

And they fear a macaca moment

[dbredes]

40. RNC encouraged cross-over

My father in Ohio, a Republican...says he was urged to cross-over to Clinton ...to stop Barack... He said he was afraid to do it... Worried he'd get caught or be in trouble.

I got the impression that it was an email or something... from the party....

Also imo...it was no mistake that Hillary drew her line in Ohio...

It is such a racially charged area..I was so surprised when I visited the summer before last.. It had been 30 years since I'd been back... Things were very bad... You couldn't walk down the street...no really...You can't even walk into a 7/11...You drive-up...and are served through bullet-proof..drive in teller windows...

Taverns have buzzers to enter... Neighborhoods and their schools in shambles..

Cincinnati police seen as bigots.....at war with the African American community.

The miracle was that none of the ground-workers were hurt...going door to door...in such a dangerous state.

[troubleinwinter]

59. If this is true, RNC encouraged committing the felony of 'election falsification'.

Please view post http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3217086&mesg_id=3217616

[Algorem]

41. Cuyahoga

http://blog.cleveland.com.nyud.net:8080/openers/2008/03/09CGRACE.gif

http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2008/03/race_mattered_more_in_ohio_pri.html


Crossover voting was heavy -- and maybe illegal

http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2008/03/crossover_voting_was_heavy_and.html

[troubleinwinter]

58. A Class 5 Felony

If you wish to switch party affiliations, you will be given a form, either Form 10-X or Form 10-W, which you must fill out and sign.

Ohio Revised Code 3513.20 states in part:

Before any challenged person shall be allowed to vote at a primary election , the person shall make a statement, under penalty of election falsification, before one of the precinct officials, blanks for which shall be furnished by the board of elections, giving name, age, residence, length of residence in the precinct, county, and state; stating that the person desires to be affiliated with and supports the principles of the political party whose ballot the person desires to vote; and giving all other facts necessary to determine whether the person is entitled to vote in that primary election. The statement shall be returned to the office of the board with the pollbooks and tally sheets...

Election Falsification is a Class 5 Felony.

"Whoever violates this section is guilty of election falsification, a felony of the fifth degree. A person that commits election falsification can face six to twelve months in prison as well as a $2,500 fine"

Unfortunately, pollworker training on this issue was spotty, to say the least. See post #16. Most polling places did not enforce this aspect.

Ohio does not have "open primaries". It permits a change of party affiliation on voting day, under the above requirements.

Any of the Limbaugh followers who disingenuously switched and signed the form committed a Felony. THAT is why "At least one member of the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections wants to investigate some Republicans who may have crossed party lines only to influence which Democrat would face presumed Republican nominee John McCain in November." Felons lose the right to vote. If Limbaugh truly urged listeners to do this, I wonder if urging others to commit a crime is a crime itself.

I wonder if they can listen to Limbaugh's radio show in prison.

[Ichingcarpenter]

60. 16,000 Republicans in Cuyahoga crossed over and voted Democratic in primary

Source: Plain Dealer

A staggering 16,000-plus Republicans in Cuyahoga County switched parties when they voted in last week's primary.

That includes 931 in Rocky River, 1,027 in Westlake and 1,142 in Strongsville. More than a third of the Republicans in Solon and Bay Village switched. Pepper Pike had the most dramatic change: just under half its Republicans became Democrats. And some of those who changed - it's difficult to say how many - could be in trouble with the law.

Lying on the pledge is a felony, punishable by six to 12 months in jail and a $2,500 fine.


It started a few weeks ago when conservative radio powerhouse Rush Limbaugh suggested that his Republican following cross over during the primary to vote for Clinton. Clinton, Limbaugh argued, would be easier for McCain to beat in November than Obama.

Read more: http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?%2Fbase%2Fnews%2F120505162549970.xml&coll=2

[opihimoimoi]

61. I have to suspect a percentage have switched for GOOD and will vote Blue..maybe 8% or so

in the general election....

[Qutzupalotl]

62. Let's put signs for the Democratic nominee on their lawns.

If they take 'em down...busted!

[Donnachaidh]

63. so they are basically saying that they ALL crossed over to vote for Clinton?

Anyone ever think that they possibly could be voting for Obama? Or is that the potential side of this story everyone fears will be brought up?

Is the tune going to change if it's found that the crossovers were for Obama? Is it going to morph into a *GOOD* thing?

Personally, I don't believe that all Republicans are in a lockstepping dance to what their party (or some loudmouth junkie) is asking at this point. People are people -- who is to say that they didn't cross just to vote for A candidate that is better than what their party is offering?

I hope they DO investigate. I hope they DO find that the crossovers weren't JUST doing something for their party. They were thinking for themselves for once.

People are FRIGHTENED with how fast our economy is going in the crapper.

[CitizenLeft]

64. wow.

Yep, those are the strongholds... though I wouldn't have considered Pepper Pike one. It's a wealthy suburb southeast of Cleveland where I would've thought more Democrats resided. Maybe they do, but the Repubs there must've had some kind of convention, LOL. Most of Cuyahoga county is blue.

[OHdem10]

65. The GOP Vote in OHIO broke for Obama.

Obama has won with GOP Votes. Now when a few break for Hillary
--Oh my Gosh what shall we do.

[orleans]

66. lying on the pledge? what pledge? oh, i found it ...

Those who crossed lines were supposed to sign a pledge card vowing allegiance to their new party.

In Cuyahoga County, dozens and dozens of Republicans scribbled addendums onto their pledges as new Democrats:

"For one day only."

"I don't believe in abortion."

A Plain Dealer review of thousands of records showed few of those who switched were challenged by poll workers.

Sandy McNair, a Democratic member of the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections, said Friday that the manipulation of the system was troublesome.

"It's something that concerns me, that I think needs to be looked at further," McNair said. "This is not a structural thing by the Republican Party. If it's a problem at all, it's on an individual level."

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?%2Fbase%2Fnews%2F120505162549970.xml&coll=2

[orleans]

67. and the lying, cheating poll workers were doing it too

Anderson, 76, and her husband, Donald, 78, served as poll workers on Tuesday and both helped fellow Republicans change parties all day; when it was time for them to vote, they crossed over, too.

"We are both concerned about what Obama would do if he was president. We don't trust him," Kitty Anderson said. "I have five grandchildren, and I keep thinking I want this world to be safe for these kids. I don't feel good about Obama. He just seems to be so vague." Come November, the Andersons said they'll most likely vote for McCain.

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/120505162549970.xml&coll=2&thispage=4

[orleans]

68. k&r n/t

[stlsaxman]

70. Kick

:kick: