Clinton says "we cannot win" Iraq war

[Barrett808]

Source: Reuters

Clinton says "we cannot win" Iraq war
17 Mar 2008 19:29:32 GMT
By Jeff Mason

WASHINGTON, March 17 (Reuters) - Democrat Hillary Clinton charged on Monday the Iraq war may cost Americans $1 trillion and add strain to the sagging U.S. economy as she made her case for a prompt U.S. troop pullout from a war "we cannot win."

...

She accused McCain of joining President George W. Bush in pushing a "stay the course" policy that would keep U.S. troops in Iraq for 100 years.

"They both want to keep us tied to another country's civil war, a war we cannot win," she said. "That in a nutshell is the Bush/McCain Iraq policy. Don't learn from your mistakes, repeat them."

Read more: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N17534493.htm

[Solly Mack]

1. never could

[saigon68]

21. So why is she still throwing $$$$$ into that Cluster-fuck

I know her Buddy Limp-mann who is with Insane McCain in Iraq0\-Nam as we speak -----wants her to.

[shaniqua6392]

23. Isn't Obama guilty of the same thing then?

Throwing money into it is something that almost all Democrats in the House and Senate are guilty of, including Obama.

[saigon68]

26. Yes and they throw $$$ at the Investment Banks too

Those bankers are a new "needy" class

[elleng]

37. I think Hillary and Obama, both, along with others

like Senator Biden, are providing funds for the benefit of our forces in Iraq; that makes perfect sense to me.

We must recognize that its needed for that purpose, and I think both O and H intend to get out as soon as possible, once they're in command. They also recognize that doing so will take some time, even if the only things involved were purely mechanical/logistical. But someones are doing the killing, so now we've got to defend ourselves too.

I wish the media would give O and H a chance to respond directly to issues of this type, but they may never do so.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3020596

[Solly Mack]

29. I can't think of a good reason why

never could come up with one

[TwilightGardener]

2. But the Iraqis won, right, Monster? Because we gave them the greatest gift EVAH--their FREEDOM!

[xchrom]

3. bush/mccain -- is right. nt

[PDJane]

4. I keep asking

How one wins an occupation. It doesn't seem like such a difficult question.

[harun]

5. I wish she would admit it is an occupation and not a war

[annabanana]

25. YES! Thank you for using the CORRECT term!

I am sick to death of Democrats caving to this corrupt Repug framing.

[GhostofSandpiper]

6. So why did she vote for it?

What made it a good idea 5 years ago?

[Skittles]

38. INDEED n/t

[elleng]

7. another country's civil war,

is a war 'we cannot win.' That's what she said, right? and that makes sense, doesn't it?

[PDJane]

10. Well, it would if it were a civil war.........

The fact is, that it isn't, any more than Viet Nam was a civil war.

[annabanana]

27. Please explain in what way it isn't a civil war.

Aren't the Shia & Sunni in conflict for control?

[PDJane]

30. Yes and no.

A civil war implies a broad conflict that involves the entire population. Although the population has scattered because of the militias, and there has been ethnic cleansing of some areas, both sides at least appear to be willing to restore order.

[merwin]

32. Both sides of the Civil War wanted to restore order as well.

They both wanted to be in control. Just like what is going on in Iraq. We just need to get the hell out of their way.

[elleng]

36. It has become a civil war.

"There was also misconception among Iraqis about the depth of the divisions within their own society. Sunni would accuse me of exaggerating their differences with the Shia, but when I mentioned prominent Shia leaders they would wave a hand dismissively and say: "But they are all Iranians or paid by the Iranians." Al-Qa'ida in Iraq regarded the Shia as heretics as worthy of death as the Americans. Enormous suicide bombs exploded in Shia marketplaces and religious processions, slaughtering hundreds, and the Shia began to hit back with tit-for-tat killings of Sunni by Shia militia death squads or the police.

After the Sunni guerrillas blew up the Shia shrine in Samarra on 22 February 2006, sectarian fighting turned into a full-blown civil war. Mr Bush and Mr Blair strenuously denied that this was so, but by any standard it was a civil war of extraordinary viciousness. Torture with electric drills and acid became the norm. The Shia Mehdi Army militia took over much of Baghdad and controlled three-quarters of it. Some 2.2 million people fled to Jordan and Syria, a high proportion of them Sunni.

The Sunni defeat in the battle for Baghdad in 2006 and early 2007 was the motive for many guerrillas, previously anti-American, suddenly allying themselves with American forces. They concluded they could not fight the US, al-Qa'ida, the Iraqi army and police and the Mehdi Army at the same time.

There is now an 80,000 strong Sunni militia, paid for and allied to the US but hostile to the Iraqi government. Five years after the American and British armies crossed into Iraq, the country has become a geographical expression."

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/patrick-cockburn-iraq-is-a-country-no-more-like-much-else-that-was-not-the-plan-796499.html

[Pastiche423]

8. If you hadn't voted for it

you wouldn't have to denounce it now.

Duh!

[tabasco]

9. Why didn't you think of that before you helped start it, you stupid coward?

Hillary was for the war before she was against it.

Anybody who tells you they thought Bush was going to use diplomacy is a goddamned LIAR.

[RichKay]

35. PLEASE, THE HILARY BASHING IS GETTING BORING . .YAWN

Enough already with the Hilary bashing. If you have bothered to read the transcript or listen to Hilary's speech regarding the authorization to go to war bill you will see that what she authorized was for Bush to enforce UN inspections with military force if necessary. She also said her vote was not a vote for any new doctrine of preemption. This tiresome attack against hilary for her vote on the war is just stupid. And that is directed to all of you here on DU with similar flatulence.

[Orsino]

11. This is a good admission.

I want to hear how fast she'd pull us out of it.

[leftrightwingnut]

12. Glad to hear it. n/t

[Javaman]

13. What¿?? Hillary is actually attacking moron* and mclame???? What has come over her????nt

[Hulk]

14. What war?? You mean we can't win the hearts and minds of the Iraqis as their oppressors?

We are an occupying force. They have no army. They are factions that take us on and each other on. When are we going to recognize the war was over when the monkey announced "mission accomplished". It was. However, we had our foot stuck in the toilet...and we've been there ever since.

So much shit for us to swallow.

[Politicalboi]

15. Bush/McCain and Clinton Iraq policy

Who the hell is she kidding? Sorry doesn't cut it this time. We all know she would take credit if it was over and it ended well for Iraq. Maybe Hillary should have listened to Obama's "speech" before she voted.

[RichKay]

34. OH PLEASE, YAWN

Maybe YOU should have listened or read the transcript to Hilary's speech when she cast her vote on the Iraq war before you comment. The neverending bashing of Hilary for her vote on the Iraq War is more than a little tiresome.

[shaniqua6392]

39. I just read her speech again earlier today

after I heard Chris Matthews commenting on her Iraq War speech. He said it is too bad she did not raise these objections when she cast the vote. Well, she really did object and caution that this power should not be misused by the President. He was supposed to go to the United Nations. Instead, he went directly to bomb Baghdad. Her constituents in New York were obviously pressuring her to vote YES on the IWR too. After all they had suffered, it seemed they wanted someone to pay for the tragedy of 9-11 and they wanted her to vote yes.

[freedomnorth]

16. Oil wars

Tend to keep them troops occupied for hundreds of years. Its difficult when you have someone living on top of something you want! :shrug:

[ohio2007]

17. ...Bot Hitlery wants us to WIN IN AFGHANISTAN when she takes over

And that means going into a nuclear armed country with a lawless bunch of tribal people and their backward customs .

[Speciesamused]

18. She is correct. So why keep the troops there????????

:wow:

[tpsbmam]

19. You were told that before you voted for the occupation, Hillary.....

You chose not to listen. Thanks a whole hell of a lot.

Remember the Arab League Secretary-General warning that invading Iraq would open the "gates of hell" in the Middle East Hillary? I do.....I listened.


http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/02/24/on_the_brink_in_iraq.php

The CIA, the State Department, members of Congress and countless Middle East experts warned Bush and Cheney— to no avail— that toppling Saddam could unleash the demons of civil war. They said so before the war, during it and in the aftermath, and each time the warnings were dismissed. Those warnings came from people like Paul Pillar, the CIA veteran who served as the U.S. intelligence community’s chief Middle East analyst, from Wayne White, the State Department’s chief intelligence analyst on Iraq and from two CIA Baghdad station chiefs who were purged for their analysis. Pillar, who wrote this month in Foreign Affairs that pre-war intelligence on Iraq was distorted by the Bush-Cheney team, is being excoriated by the right.

[newfie11]

20. How many of you complaining about Hillary's vote

voted for bush in the first place. You can complain all you want about Hillary but enough idiots liked bush to elect him twice.Now the war is all Hillary's fault! Give me a break!
I sure as hell didn't vote for him.

[saigon68]

22. Nice chicken and egg argument

[tpsbmam]

24. Ummmmm, you're on Democratic Underground......

It's a safe bet that no one here voted for Shrub. And yes, I blame this fiasco on everyone who made it possible, Hillary Clinton included.

[merwin]

33. Actually, it's not safe to say that.

I voted for Bush the first time. What happened immediately after that with Florida is what woke me up. And I'm sure that the same can be said of many people on DU.

[tpsbmam]

41. That's true....

Thought of that after I posted. There are a small minority here who voted for Bush, including some Republicans here who intend to vote for the Democrats for the first time. My bad. I revise it to say that it's safe to say that the vast majority here never voted for Bush.

[olddad56]

28. she has a better chance of winning in Iraq than she does in the USA.

[fshrink]

31. And it was clear at the time of the vote as well.

A war based on military occupation cannot be won. Never has and never will.

[Laughing Mirror]

40. It's already cost us: $3-3.5 Trillion, says Joseph Stiglitz

Because of who he is, his figures are more trustworthy than the senator's.

[ima_sinnic]

42. whatever. you'll say whatever you think will win you votes. you're an insincere fake.

Billary, you could give a rat's ass about the million or more Iraqi citizens who have been killed, the Iraqi orphans, the thousands of U.S. troops who've been killed and maimed. you got your rupert murdoch and your bigpharma and the rest of your payola-payers paying you to vote their way and make sure they can keep their boots on the throat of the world, so what do you care about suffering and misery or whether we "win" or "lose" in Iraq.

are you going to charge bush and his thugs with war crimes? are you going to call off the anti-american corporate interests that are stealing our jobs and livelihoods to enrich their own wallets? are you going to regulate the oil companies (hell--nationalize them!) and the media? are you ever going to call the media to task for their complicity in war crimes?

I didn't think so. on any of those counts. you are in glee, watching the democratic party and We The People disintegrate while you run to the bank with your latest blood money and fat cat contributions. you can EAT S**T for all I care.

[JeanGrey]

43. Shut Up Damn You. You make me sick, Hillary.

I hope you learn from the mistake you're making right now but somehow I doubt it.

[Winterblues]

44. What misleading headlines

What she said was we can not win Iraq's Civil War.
"They both want to keep us tied to another country's civil war, a war we cannot win,"

[ileus]

45. we won the Iraq war, it's the iraq peacekeeping we're lousy at.

Armies are made to kill and destroy, the completed that job in three weeks. peace keeping is something we're never going to get a hand on.

[PDJane]

46. there was no war. You won the invasion.

Occupation is a long term, lousy and brutal business...and there's no legal basis for it.