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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 08:36 PM
Original message
Husband says Colombia raid scuttled release of Betancourt
Source: Reuters

Husband says Colombia raid scuttled release of Betancourt
Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:18pm GMT
By Monica Vargas

SANTIAGO (Reuters) - Colombian leftist rebels holding French citizen Ingrid Betancourt hostage would have released her if Colombia's government had not carried out a cross-border raid targeting a rebel camp in Ecuador, her husband said on Monday.

The March 1 military attack killed a senior rebel of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia or FARC and set off a crisis that prompted Ecuador and Venezuela to deploy troops to their borders with Colombia before the spat ended.

Betancourt, a dual French-Colombian citizen and former presidential candidate in Colombia, is one of the highest profile hostages among hundreds the FARC has held for years in jungle camps. Guerrillas say they want to exchange about 40 captives for jailed rebel fighters.

The slain FARC commander, Raul Reyes, had been one of the key contacts for countries such as France, which had been working behind the scenes to secure a deal to free Betancourt and other hostages, who include three American contract workers.


Read more: http://uk.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUKN1763382920080317?rpc=401&
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. Of course it did. Uribe likely just sentenced her to death.
Mission accomplished, you brutal whore Uribe. Hope you enjoy your American blood money!
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MaryCeleste Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. So the hostage takers bear no responsibility?
The can and should let all of them go immediately. They never should have taken them in the first place.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 06:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Maybe you haven't been keeping up.
Edited on Tue Mar-18-08 06:11 AM by sfexpat2000
FARC has been trying to release them and URIBE has been doing his best to tank that release.

If you have any illusions at all about the Colombian military, see how they treated the people who survived the bombing:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=405x2746
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MaryCeleste Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I have been keeping up
And this same concept came up in some of the recent threads over Colombia attacking the FARC camp in Ecuador.

- They had a choice to take them, and they did
- They could easily release them in Ecuador and do not.

I have no illusions about the Colombia and its tactics. However, that is not a free pass for FARC.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Colombian forces have in the past FIRED on hostages
that FARC was attempting to release. No, no release is easy.

And as far as FARC taking hostages in the first place or getting a "free pass", you have been propagandized and apparently do have a number of illusions about the Colombian government. You might read Peace Patriot's post to this thread or any of a number of threads in the Latin America forum to find out something about FARC that may not be available in The Miami Herald.
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MaryCeleste Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Which is why I and others have suggested Ecuador
Somehow taking hostages is just not a good thing. It really doesn't matter why.

LA is a mess and has been for quite some time. US involvement is a major factor in that, if not the key factor. However that does not justify FARC taking hostages.

Ends justify the means and other moral relativistic approaches are a very dangerous road to go down.
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. yeah they can take them to one of their clandestine bases in Ecuador and Ven
and release them there in coordination with their "contacts" of those governments.


sounds good but it might be a little tricky smuggling them out of Colombia.


I think they should simply drop them off 2 miles from a town with a note from the FARC saying, "We have held against Sr./Sra.______ as a captive against his/her will FARC for _________years however, a recent rush of humanity has overcome us and we are releasing this hostage(s). We will also release all remaining hostages as well as it is the humane thing to do. It is our understanding that if we lay down our arms we will be pardoned and the FARC prisoners currently incarcerated will also be liberated."
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. what exactly is so difficult about releasing them?
it doesn't have to be a media event. they could simply just let them go.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Colombia security forces and closely tied paramilitary death squads have slaughtered
thousands of union leaders--carnage that Amnesty International assigns 95% of to Colombian security forces and their paras (2% to FARC). They have, as well, slaughtered thousands of peasant farmers, political leftists, human rights workers and journalists. These "hostages of death" cannot be bargained for. They can't even be given funerals. Their chainsawed body parts, decapitated heads and rotting corpses lie in mass graves, where the brutes of the Colombian military tossed them.

You require FARC to do the right thing. But you don't require that the bastards running the Colombian government--propped up with $5 billion in U.S. tax dollars--be held accountable for their FAR WORSE crimes, or even to stop committing their far worse crimes.

The last time FARC tried to demobilize and participate in the country's political process, the government paramilitary death squads killed 4,000 of their political candidates, office holders and supporters. And FARC returned to the jungle and took up arms again.

The only way to stop this kind of cycle of violence, that has gone on for 40 years, is to STOP IT. You don't stop it with MORE violence. You stop it with negotiation. You stop it with diplomacy. You stop it with PEACE. You bring in objective parties, who understand that there are injuries, and hatred, and crimes on both sides, and you STOP THE VIOLENCE, and work for a POLITICAL settlement that will end the suffering of innocent parties, and permit normal social and political life to be created.

And THAT is what Alvaro Uribe and George Bush just tried to destroy with UNNECESSARY violence--a negotiated peace.

Your one-sided view--that only FARC has to be lawful, that only FARC is in the wrong, that only FARC can unilaterally end this 40+ year civil war--is why wars happen, and why wars continue. To end war, you have to understand why there IS a war, why there IS a FARC. Because for more than 40 years now, the rightwing rulers of Colombia have NOT permitted the vast poor majority to take their rightful place in the political life of the country--as is happening now in OTHER South American countries--and to achieve legitimate power in their government. The Colombian rightwing has held onto ILLEGITIMATE power by violence, intimidation, torture, brutality, murder and exploitation of every kind--now supported with billions of dollars of our money. They have permitted foreign corporations--Drummond Coal, Occidental Petroleum, Chiquita--to operate in their country using Colombians as slave labor, and hiring paramilitary death squads to kill their workers when they try to organize.

This massive injustice is WHY there is a FARC. And they may well be political dinosaurs--armed leftist guerrillas--like the fascist dinosaurs they are fighting--the heinous, greedy Bushite bastards running Colombia-- while the rest of the continent goes democratic and pursues social justice--but OUR opinion of this conflict DOESN'T MATTER. What matters is how to end it.

Yes, FARC should release the hostages. And they WERE releasing hostages--unconditionally. And they were about to release MORE hostages--unconditionally. And Uribe/Bush STOPPED that process by DELIBERATELY targeting and killing the hostage negotiator--the man whom the presidents of France, Ecuador, Venezuela, Argentina and others WERE IN CONTACT WITH. Using U.S. bombs, U.S. surveillance and probably U.S. aircraft! The U.S. should have been doing the opposite--aiding the peacemakers! It is only with the support of the war criminals and the shredders of our Constitution, and destroyers of our democracy, in the White House, and the billions of our non-existent tax dollars that they are pouring into Colombia, that Colombia was able to do this: destroy the best hope for peace that has come along in twenty years.

It is utterly disgusting and reprehensible. Yes, tell FARC to release all the hostages unconditionally--and to thus unleash the pogrom that Bush and Uribe intend for the Colombian countryside. And then tell Colombia to restore to life the thousands of innocents they have killed, and tell Bush to restore the 1.2 million innocent Iraqis HE has killed, and pay back the billions his pals, and Uribe's pals, have stolen from all of us. But no, you want the FARC to do all the peacemaking, and put itself and its members and the 20% of Colombia that it represents at the mercy of George Bush.

You take Bush/Uribe's narrow legalistic view--based on lies and propaganda. Like the WMDs in Iraq! The narrow legalistic view that twists a UN resolution into the slaughter of 1.2 million innocents to get their oil.

That view does not want peace. It wants the oil! It wants slave labor! That is what you are really advocating when put all the blame on FARC and haughtily insist that THEY are the criminals, and completely ignore the horrors of their adversaries. You want their adversaries--these illegitimate and violent powers, Bush and Uribe, and their corporate puppetmasters--to WIN.
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MaryCeleste Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. My view is far from one sided, its that I don't think hostage taking helps anything
and says a lot about organizations that do.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. The Colombian goverment is hold countless more hostages.
and in prisons that your tax dollars have paid for with the vigorous cooperation of your government in equipment and personnel. That says a lot about America.
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. those are prisoners. hostages versus prisoners. comprendes???
Edited on Tue Mar-18-08 09:34 AM by Bacchus39
n/t
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. There you go again! YOU "don't think hostage taking helps anything."
But YOU don't acknowledge the heinous crimes of the other side--the one with $5 BILLION in Bush/U.S. military aid.

YOU think that hostage taking "says a lot about organizations" that do it. And what does it say about their opposition that they slaughter thousands of union leaders and other innocent people merely exercising their human and civil rights? It says that they are hideously unjust. BOTH sides are wrong. And the fascist side, with all that military aid, has been documented, by numerous human rights groups, as being far more criminal, far more murderous, and far more disruptive of civil order, than the leftist guerrillas they are fighting.

You keep ignoring this. What DO you want? More bloodshed?

Do you know what Uribe did? After inviting Hugo Chavez to negotiate hostage releases with the FARC, he then--no doubt under Bushite pressure--withdrew that invitation, WHILE the first hostage release was in progress, and BOMBED the hostage group's location, while they on their way out of the country!

Here's what happend...

When the two hostages, Consuelo Gonzalez and Clara Rojas, were finally released on January 10, Gonzalez - a former Colombian congresswoman -- told this story to the press:

"'On December 21, we began to walk toward the location where they were going to free us and we walked almost 20 days. During that time, we were forced to run several times because the soldiers were very close,' she said. Gonzalez also lamented that on the day that Alvaro Uribe set as a deadline for the release, the Colombian armed forces launched the worst attack on the zone where they were located. 'On the 31st, we realized that there was going to be a very big mobilization and, in the moment that we were ready to be released, there was a huge bombardment and we had to relocate quickly to another place.'"

No English-language reporters questioned the truth of Gonzalez' testimony; it was simply not reported. The one exception was an Associated Press article, where it was buried and barely mentioned, and edited out of most newspapers. By eliminating this vital information, the media prevented readers from knowing that the Colombian government had reneged on its end of the bargain, putting the lives of the hostages at risk in what looked like an attempt to embarrass Chavez and abort the mission.
(MORE)

http://www.alternet.org/columnists/story/75697/

---------

This was not reported in our "news"--in order to keep people like you ignorant of what was really happening--that Uribe was trying to violently INTERFERE with an UNCONDITIONAL hostage release, by putting the lives of the HOSTAGES at risk.

So, is THAT what you want? Dead hostages? Dead hostage negotiators? More innocent dead? More guilty dead? More death and destruction?

HOW do you end it--when the Colombian government, in collusion with Bushites, DON'T WANT IT ENDED? Do you end it THEIR way--with the leftist opposition in Colombia wiped off the face of the earth?

What is YOUR solution--besides telling one side to release their hostages and open themselves to a pogrom? Cuz you know damn well that is what will happen. They are NOT going to release the hostages under fire! So THEN what would you do? Nuke 'em? Come on, what's YOUR solution?

The presidents of France, Ecuador, Venezuela, Argentina and others were working on the ONLY solution that can end this civil war. PEACE!
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MaryCeleste Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Read post #11
I fully realize the mess the LA is in and that the US is primay in that mess. That does not mean I should agree with all of the tactics taken by FARC. Kidnapping innocents is one of those I can not understand anyone supporting.

And yes I know about release where Colombian military came in with guns blazing. Which is why I and others are suggesting a release in Ecuador, possibly unannounced.

Ends justify the means thinking is scary...regardless of who is doing it



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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. For Christ's sake, did I say I JUSTIFIED it? Did I say I SUPPORTED it?
Edited on Tue Mar-18-08 03:31 PM by Peace Patriot
I do not! But it is REALITY. Atrocities on BOTH sides. What do you do? What is YOUR solution?

Do you agree with Uribe bombing the hostages' location, in the first hostage release?

Do you agree with murdering the very guy who was RELEASING hostages, WITHOUT CONDITIONS? Do you agree with ENDING the in-progress release of hostages with absolutely UNNECESSARY violence?

You don't have to agree with ANYBODY's crimes, to want the bloodshed to END? FORTY-PLUS years of it!

Do YOU agree with, justify and support the Colombian government's slaughter of union leaders--thousands of innocent people tortured, murdered?

Come on. Do you agree with it? Is it justified, in your view? And, if not, THEN WHAT? Well, the FARC took up arms. That was their choice and their response. What would YOU do, if you saw family members, friends, innocent parties, cut down by the Colombian security forces or their paramilitary groups, for nothing more than daring to organize their communities, or a labor union, or speaking up on their own behalf?

WHAT. DO. YOU. DO?

It was, is, and continues to be a very difficult situation for EVERYBODY. How do you end the cycle of violence? By blaming one side, and seeking to wipe them out? Well, that's one solution, I guess. More bloodshed. For how long? Another decade? Two decades? To the end of the century? Forever?

Is getting the hostages RELEASED, without conditions, SUPPORTING the taking of hostages? How? How does getting them released, without conditions--giving them their lives back, saving their lives--mean that anyone working for that goal SUPPORTS the crime that was committed against them?

And do you know what "without conditions" meant? It meant that FARC members who arranged the release of hostages put THEMSELVES in great danger. Uribe nearly scuttled the first hostage releases by arresting several FARC members who were IN TRANSIT to Caracas with "proof of life" documents (the first step in a hostage negotiation)--a negotiation that Uribe had ASKED Chavez to undertake--and then he abruptly withdrew his permission, just as the first hostages were BEING released. THIS WAS DISHONORABLE. He used Chavez to draw the FARC members out in the open, to arrest or kill them! And he now has those FARC members--who would otherwise not have made themselves vulnerable to arrest--in a Colombian prison. Then, on top of that, he BOMBED a known hostage location, while the first two hostages were trying to LEAVE? Then, with U.S. military involvement, he bombed and killed the chief hostage negotiator, on the eve of the release of 12 more hostages--and killed 22 other people as well, in Ecuador's territory. He clearly wants no hostages released, and cares nothing whatever for their lives--which, I must say, does not surprise me, considering the many murders that his regime is guilty of.

The hostage taking was a crime. And now you're blaming the people who are ENDING this crime? You're blaming ME, and saying I support this crime, because I want the crime ended? You're blaming the presidents of France, Ecuador, Venezuela, Argentina and others for JUSTIFYING this crime, for SUPPORTING this crime, because they have been working to END this crime?

You are making no sense. And what of the crimes of the Colombian government? You have nothing to say about that.

Yes, you have a one-sided view.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. A demonstrator who attended the peace march in Colombia last week said,
paramilitaries don't waste time kidnapping as many victims, they simply cut them into pieces.

Good point to anyone who has bothered to either research for him/herself, or has heard this directly from men or women who have left Colombia due to the brutality.

You mentioned elsewhere that the FARC had attempted other times to surrender, to lay down arms, to agree to truces, and the payoff they got was getting murdered, and murdered some more. Lotsa murders from the government and from the paramilitaries (death squads) who do the unofficial work the military can't take credit for officially.

Here's an interesting item from the N.Y. Times in 1990, when few Americans had any grasp of what has been happening in Colombia, financed in large by their own American taxpayers' money. To explain the assassinated politician, he represented the political party the FARC organized in 1985, after complying with a peace agreement in 1984 created with the government's National Peace Commission at La Uribe, Colombia:
Leftist Candidate Assassinated at Bogota Airport
REUTERS
Published: March 23, 1990

LEAD: A leading left-wing politician was assassinated at the Bogota airport today, and troops used tear gas and gunfire to disperse hundreds of demonstrators accusing the Government of complicity in the killing.

A leading left-wing politician was assassinated at the Bogota airport today, and troops used tear gas and gunfire to disperse hundreds of demonstrators accusing the Government of complicity in the killing.

Bernardo Jaramillo, presidential candidate for the Patriotic Union Party, the country's largest leftist political party died while undergoing surgery after being shot four times by an assailant firing a submachine gun, the police said.

The gunman was captured at Bogota's El Dorado airport and was questioned by police investigators.

Late today the Government blamed drug traffickers for the killing. A Government statement said that the leader of the Medellin cocaine cartel, Pablo Escobar, ordered the assassination and that the gunman had been paid $650 to kill Mr. Jaramillo.

The Patriotic Union Party has blamed past attacks on death squads backed by the military.

Shortly after the killing this morning, hundreds of party sympathizers took to the streets shouting, ''Of course, the Government killed him.''

Armed military police, carrying shields and backed by armored trucks, surrounded the demonstrators.
More:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE5DD1330F930A15750C0A966958260

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I've seen enough references to these attempts to cease fire and go through channels get destroyed again and again. They don't want peace with leftists, they want NO OPPOSITION WHATSOEVER. PERIOD. Not even an occassional article in the newspapers which challenges any of the narcotrafficker politicians, like Uribe.

By now, all that's left journalistically in Colombia is a handful of journalists who freely admit that, as the ones who managed to avoid copious amounts of death threats, and assassinations by keeping a low profile, while others were gunned down or fled altogether, they can be expected to "SELF-CENSOR" their own writing to keep themselves from being killed.

The information is available to anyone who wants to look for it, who suspects that he/she needs to find out more, and NOT take the corporate media's word for things.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Wiki on Leal, the assassinated progressive politician:
Jaime Pardo Leal
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Jaime Pardo Leal (died October 11, 1987) was the Presidential candidate of the Patriotic Union, Colombia for the 1986 elections.

Members of the Patriotic Union became the target of multiple death threats and assassination attempts. Pardo Leal himself, after running for president in 1986, was assassinated by a 14-year old in October 11, 1987, who was later killed as well. Druglord José Gonzalo Rodríguez Gacha, also known as "the Mexican", was apparently involved in the murder as a sponsor. The Colombian Communist Party newspaper Voz published a report in which it allegedly linked members of the Colombian military to Rodríguez Gacha.

By 1988, the UP announced that more than 500 of its members, including Pardo Leal and 4 congressmen, had been assassinated to date. Unidentified gunmen later attacked more than 100 of the UP's local candidates in the six months preceding the March 1988 elections. An April 1988 report by Amnesty International charged that members of the Colombian military and government would be involved in what was called a "deliberate policy of political murder" of UP militants and others. The terms of that accusation were rejected and deemed to be an inaccurate exaggeration by the Colombian administration of Virgilio Barco Vargas.

By 2003-2004, the official legal representatives of a partial number of UP victims presented a concrete death toll of about 1,163 to the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights (IACHR), of which 450 (38%) were attributed directly to paramilitary groups. The breakdown of the remainder was not publicly specified.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaime_Pardo_Leal

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~snip~
During the 1980's more than 2,000 members of the leftist Patriotic Union (UP) were murdered by right-wing death squads. Members of other leftist parties were also killed, as was a reform-minded, Liberal Party presidential candidate. As the first elections of the new millennium approach, little has changed in Colombian electoral politics. So far during this election season, 20 mayoral candidates have been assassinated and more than a hundred kidnapped.

This is the "democracy" that President Clinton so desperately wants to help preserve with $1.3 billion in U.S. aid. However, the aid is being used to fight the rebel Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC), not the right-wing death squads primarily responsible for destabilizing Colombian democracy. Paramilitary organizations and drug traffickers have killed thousands of leftist and reform-minded candidates who dared to challenge the political hegemony of the ruling Conservative and Liberal parties.

In the 1980's the FARC entered into a cease-fire and negotiations with the government of President Belisario Betancur. The FARC then formed a political party, the Patriotic Union (UP), in order to participate in elections. But the promise of greater democracy and an end to the civil conflict posed a threat to the elite's political and economic power (see, Fifty Years of Violence).

The elite--primarily wealthy businessmen and large landowners--and narco-traffickers who were trying to change the extradition laws, soon set about eliminating all political opposition. As a result, the UP was virtually annihilated by the end of the decade. The leader of the UP, Jaime Pardo Leal, was assassinated in 1987. The UP's presidential candidate, Bernardo Jaramillo, was killed in the weeks leading up to the 1990 election, as was another presidential candidate, Carlos Pizarro of the M-19 guerrillas who had recently laid down their arms in order to form a political party.

The death squads not only targeted leftist candidates and former guerrillas, they also assassinated reform-minded members of the two major parties, such as Liberal candidate Luis Carlos Galán, who was expected to win the 1990 presidential election.

In this climate of electoral violence the cease-fire agreement disintegrated. The civil conflict escalated throughout the 1990's as both the FARC and the paramilitaries gained strength due to increased profits from the drug trade. However, there was little change when it came to electoral politics. Although there were few leftist candidates brave enough to run for national office, on the local level the assassinations continued.

According to Human Rights Watch, in the months leading up to 1997's municipal elections the country's largest paramilitary group, the United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia (AUC), declared "they would prevent pro-guerrilla 'proselytizing' in areas of conflict, which candidates considered a threat to those who failed to embrace their views." By August 1997, ten mayors and 36 town council members had been assassinated.
http://www.colombiajournal.org/colombia34.htm
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
17. Betancourt's husband accuses Colombia of hampering her release
Betancourt's husband accuses Colombia of hampering her release


www.chinaview.cn 2008-03-18 13:01:07

SANTIAGO, March 17 (Xinhua) -- High-profile FARC hostage Ingrid Betancourt might have been released if Colombia had not raided the rebels' camp in Ecuador, her husband said Monday.

"If they had not killed this guerrilla, she may even have been freed, because on March 14 and 15 they had planned to release 12 more hostages, my wife among them," Juan Carlos Lecompte told a press conference during a visit to Chile at the invitation of the recently formed Ecology Party.

FARC (Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia) second-in-command Edgar Devia was killed in the bombing raid on March 1, along with some 20 other rebels.

Lecompte reiterated his confidence in Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, whose negotiations secured the release of six hostages this year.

"He is the only one who has obtained results and the only person in the world that FARC listens to," Lecompte said.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-03/18/content_7813572.htm
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