Obama To Army Vet: No Lower Drinking Age

[RamboLiberal]

Source: CBS News/AP

Democrat Barack Obama on Monday promised Iraq and Afghanistan war veterans help with their grievances - save one.

"I know it drives you nuts. But I'm not going to lower the drinking age," the presidential candidate said.

Army veteran Ernest Johnson, 23, of Connecticut, said one of the things that peeved him before he turned 21 was that he couldn't come home and drink a beer - even though he was old enough to serve in the armed services and die for his country.

Obama told Johnson he sympathized, but that setting the legal drinking age at 21 had helped reduce drunken driving incidents and should remain.

The Illinois senator was taping a round-table discussion with eight veterans that is to be broadcast by MTV on the fifth anniversary of the start of the Iraq war.


Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/17/politics/main3946522.shtml

[onehandle]

1. Then raise the fighting age to 21. Nobody that young should be in active duty, nt

[movonne]

10. I think that's a good idea....

[noamnety]

17. I'm all for that. (nt)

[awoke_in_2003]

19. Great point

18 is much too young an age to decide whether or not you are willing to give your life up for your country. If you are not mature enough to drink a beer, you are not mature enough to pick up a rifle in defense of a nation.

[Thothmes]

35. Yet you can walk into a voting booth

and vote for the next President of the United States. Do you believe that is to much responsibility for an 18 year old.

[MADem]

29. Voting, fighting, drinking--they all should be the same, IMO.

You can't be an adult in one area, and a "child" in others.

[Orsino]

42. I wouldn't ask anyone to kill and die for */Cheney...

...especially not without access to alcohol.

[ConcernedCanuk]

38. I agree, and if one studies brain growth, one is easier "trainable" before age of 21.

.
.
.

The military training is just another form of brainwashing, and having young brains to wash/impress/direct is much easier in teens.

You would see a great difference if the military chose "mature" people to train - at least those of maturing age of 21 and over.

The young interns are trained to "obey", as one teaches a pet; with reward or punishment.

Input from the interns is unwelcome - they must follow the rules from day one.

No input = no progression.

[margotb822]

47. Drinking isn't a right

It's a privilege. Voting is a right, and the issue was that people could be drafted to fight in a war started by officials they didn't have the opportunity to vote for or against.

Here's a good link for info about drinking in the US and military drinking laws: http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/InTheNews/UnderageDrinking/1106156025.html

Besides, in America, unlike the rest of the world, the driving age is 16. People cannot master driving and alcohol-related decision making so close together. And it has been proven that a drinking age of 21 lowers alcohol related deaths in the 16-21 age group.

There are many people 18-21 who are in the military because they lack the discipline, skill, drive, money, etc to attend college. What to you suggest these people do with their lives between high school and being 21? The military is a great opportunity for thousands of people. And, just like any other American citizen, they can drink when they go overseas.

[onehandle]

55. Nobody under the age of 21 should be in a kill or be killed situation.

There should be public service outside of war zones. Seems obvious to me.

[pegleg]

59. Very wise and sane idea

[goclark]

2. good for Obama nt

[Skip Intro]

3. If you're old enough to die for this country, you're fucking old enough to have a beer.

You could limit it to people actually in the military, at least.


Either you're an adult or you're not.

[MidwestTransplant]

4. Or just permit it on bases

[movonne]

12. Do you want 18 year old getting drunk and driving...but I do think

maybe they should raise the age to 21 before they have to go fight in a war..

[RamboLiberal]

15. I'd have no problem limiting it to bases or raise enlistment age to 21

BTW, how does the military handle it when soldiers are stationed in countries where drinking age is under 21?

[jmowreader]

31. Local law governs in those cases

They may have changed it--and, knowing our suddenly puritanical military, they probably did--but if the drinking age was 18 off post, they set the drinking age to 18 on post. The club system wouldn't have it any other way--if you told all the sub-21 troops "you can drink at the bar right outside the main gate, but you can't drink at the one just inside it," they'd just walk to the bar off post, stumble home, then NEVER set foot in the one on post once they turned 18. And, of course, all the 22-yo soldiers in Bravo Company with 20-yo girlfriends down in Charlie Company would go to the bars off post to be with them.

Differential drinking ages, assuming the military system's age was higher than the local system's, would kill the club system. So they won't do it, or at least SHOULDN'T do it.

Then again...they DID eliminate the dirty magazines from the exchanges on the theory some soldier would bring his kid in the barracks and said kid would see a Dirty Magazine sitting on a soldier's footlocker...

[noamnety]

18. trust me

that's not helping the vets deal with their problems; it's just creating new ones for them.

the real problem is that enlistment age is too young.

Actually I think to enlist you should have to be old enough to be elected to congress. (And actually serve in it.)

[awoke_in_2003]

20. Read post #1. Hits it on the head. nt

[Diane R]

24. Then you bring the troops home, you don't have to lower the drinking age.

[Zynx]

5. Drinking is overrated. I honestly don't give a damn about this issue.

[ingac70]

7. Same here. n/t

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

41. "I'm not a woman, so I don't give a damn about abortion or contraception rights."

Same thing.

[Zynx]

44. Not at all the same. Drinking is a luxury. A woman's health is not.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

49. The attitude is the same

"I'm not affected by this violation of rights, so I don't care."

[Zynx]

52. No, you can cut distinctions finer than absurd moral absolutes.

Certain laws matter more than others. Drinking is not a right to health, life, or freedom. Drinking is an absolutely unnecessary luxury and any constraint the government makes on it is fine with me.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

54. "Any constraint the government makes on it is fine with me."

Wow.

Looks like I have made a mistake in post #43, namely "and won't admit it."

You DO admit it.

Wow.

Go to Saudi Arabia. You'll love it there.

[sandnsea]

6. Good for him

The right wing is always looking for some angle to rile young people up, even though they've got no intention of doing anything about the issue they blather about.

[Bicoastal]

8. I agree with Obama. No one driving for less than 5 years should be legally able

to buy alcohol. And that goes for weapons or any other heavy machinery people are exposed to before the age of 21--you need time to become more experienced and understand your physical limitations. If younger people find a way to sneak around it, then that's their problem--but Obama's right. Drunk driving accidents HAVE gone down.

I was IN a drunk driving accident not too long ago (though I wasn't the one driving), and there are few issues I care about as much as this one.

Good for him for not backing down.

[iaviate1]

11. As if the laws stop people...

How's the war on drugs going? It's not so much about the beer, but the point. If you're responsible enough to take the lives of others in the name of your country, you damn well should be allowed to enjoy the FULL rights and responsibilities of being an adult.

[movonne]

13. As Judge Judy would say "they are not fully cooked yet"...

[awoke_in_2003]

21. "No one driving for less than 5 years should be legally able...

to buy alcohol". Or be given the choice to go and die for his country. Raise the legal enlistment age.

[brooklynite]

33. Why not raise the drinking age to 35? or 50? That'll bring accidents down too

The smart thing to do is to teach kids the propriety of drinking in moderation at home, like most cultures do.

But of course, that would be "immoral"...

[muriel_volestrangler]

45. Why connect driving and alcohol in that way?

What if someone doesn't drive at all? Would you limit their ability to buy alcohol, whatever their age? And why does 5 years of driving change the interaction of driving and consuming alcohol? Are you saying that it's OK to drink and drive if you have 5 years' driving experience?

Wouldn't it be better to increase the penalties for drinking and driving, rather than pretend that consuming alcohol always involves driving?

[knight_of_the_star]

65. So when did you have your first drink?

Mine was Scotch at the tender age of 15.

[krabigirl]

66. ? Then explain to me why it works in England, and other places in the world..

[populistdriven]

9. OHNOES! Obama just lost the drunk driver vote! oh wait, my bad, they are Hillary's leftover base.

[RamboLiberal]

14. Thought they were the drunken Bush's leftover base n/t

[NewHampshireDem]

16. Anyone who thinks lowering the drinking age to 18

should spend a weekend here in Christchurch, New Zealand, or hop across the Tasman to Sydney. You'll change your mind right quick.

[Gormy Cuss]

40. Having lived in the state next to yours when that was the law, I remember it as no worse

and possibly better than having the age be 21 because we understood that we had the right AND the responsibility. The binge drinking phenomenon grew after the age was raised back up to 21 and as far as I can tell it made no difference on very young underage drinking either -- if anything, more 14-18 year olds seem to be drinking these days.

We stand apart from most of the world, where the minimum legal drinking age is mostly age 18 (if there is a stipulation at all.) Since everyone's favorite argument is about drinking and driving, perhaps those who don't drive should be allowed to drink at 18. Better yet perhaps no one should be able to drive until they're old enough to be responsible for their actions legally.

[Politicalboi]

22. Hell they should raise it to 25

And enlistment too. At that age you should be mostly done with college or married with kids and drinking might not be what you want to do at that age.

[bluestateguy]

23. I suppose he could have pandered and told the guy what he wanted to hear

But that's not leadership.

[Algorem]

25. there should only be laws against drunking,not drinking.

is obama still smoking?what's the smoking age?

the only thing he's going to end up lowering is his own expectations.


http://www.indiana.edu/~engs/articles/cqoped.html

...Research from the early 1980s until the present has shown a continuous decrease in drinking and driving related variables which has parallel the nation's, and also university students, decrease in per capita consumption. However, these declines started in 1980 before the national 1987 law which mandated states to have 21 year old alcohol purchase laws.

The decrease in drinking and driving problems are the result of many factors and not just the rise in purchase age or the decreased per capita consumption. These include: education concerning drunk driving, designated driver programs, increased seat belt and air bag usage, safer automobiles, lower speed limits, free taxi services from drinking establishments, etc.

While there has been a decrease in per capita consumption and motor vehicle crashes, unfortunately, during this same time period there has been an INCREASE in other problems related to heavy and irresponsible drinking among college age youth. Most of these reported behaviors showed little change until AFTER the 21 year old law in 1987. For example from 1982 until 1987 about 46% of students reported "vomiting after drinking." This jumped to over 50% after the law change. Significant increase were also found for other variables: "cutting class after drinking" jumped from 9% to almost 12%; "missing class because of hangover" went from 26% to 28%; "getting lower grade because of drinking" rose from 5% to 7%; and "been in a fight after drinking" increased from 12% to 17%. All of these behaviors are indices of irresponsible drinking. This increase in abusive drinking behavior is due to "underground drinking" outside of adult supervision in student rooms and apartments were same age individuals congregate and because of lack of knowledge of responsible drinking behaviors.

Based upon the fact that our current prohibition laws are not working, the need for alternative approaches from the experience of other, and more ancient cultures, who do not have these problems need to be tried. Groups such as Italians, Greeks, Chinese and Jews, who have few drinking related problems, tend to share some common characteristics. Alcohol is neither seen as a poison or a magic potent, there is little or no social pressure to drink, irresponsible behavior is never tolerated, young people learn at home from their parents and from other adults how to handle alcohol in a responsible manner, there is societal consensus on what constitutes responsible drinking. Because the the 21 year old drinking age law is not working, and is counterproductive, it behooves us as a nation to change our current prohibition law and to teach responsible drinking techniques for those who chose to consume alcoholic beverages.

[PsN2Wind]

26. So Obama, who admits to the use of illegal drugs as a teenager,

tells vets that they aren't capable of handling beer.
Isn't that a bit hypocritical?

[FrenchieCat]

32. Sometimes one learns from their own mistakes, and learns not to

pass them on to others.

Alcohol is a dangerous matter, and has snuffed out many lives before it was required. I have seen lives destroyed by, specifically, underage drinking, and it was devastating. No need to increase that horror as being in war is bad enough.

[sudopod]

27. You mean he doesn't tell the crowd whatever will make them happy?

HOW WEIRD!

[Fedja]

28. The crowd isn't qualified to judge that decision..

due to being systematically misinformed in the past.

My country has an "official" drinking age of 18, but it's not enforced really, so just about anyone can go out to a cafe and have a beer. Sure, you may get laughed at by the waiter at 14, but anywhere over that is fair game.

"Drinking a beer" does not by default require you to be a mature adult.

However, our driving age is 18. Yes, driving is more important than having a beer, and we don't allow minors to drive cars that kill people in accidents even when driven responsibly.

Drunk driving is a different matter and in no way connected to the drinking age. Those 2 concepts about as relative to each other as "killing someone" and "having arms". When it comes to drunk driving, we have strict enforcement, cops sweeping random stops and testing people on weekend nights, astronomic fines, and many other legal provisions for the event.

- "a beer" is usually fine, if you don't down it right before you go drive
- "2-3 drinks" is a fine of approximately 50% of the average salary, and a repeat of this fine within 2 years is an automatic loss of license
- "being drunk" carries a gigantic fine, loss of driving license, ban on any kind of driving for 6 months-2 years...


It is my humble opinion that a country has grave issues to address when someone is old enough to buy a shotgun, but not old enough to have a beer.

[Shipwack]

30. 20 year vet here... I'm in total agreement with Obama

I've spent too many nights escorting drunk shipmates home, and/or standing "drunkwatch" to make sure they didn't throw up and choke on their vomit while sleeping to really have much enthusiasm for lowering the drinking age. Not being able to drink didn't bother me while I was in the service from the age of 18-21, and it doesn't bother me now.

[CRK7376]

60. I too have spent many a night

watching drunk soldiers stumble back into the barracks and sleep on the bunk springs rather than puke on the mattress. As a young junior officer many years ago on an exercise in Japan, I had a very, very drunk Major stumble back into our room, we had 8 officers in a small room in a Japanese Army barracks, he was assigned to our room. But this drunk major chose my bunk as his target that evening. He hurled all over my bunk then proceeded to sleep in it. He was too drunk to climb up into the rack above me that he was assigned to. Fortunately I was not in the bunk when this happend. If I drink, I will not drive....But for society to ok a young person to enlist and serve their country, they should be allowed to have a drink. Bottom line.

[Vinca]

34. The bottom line is that it is the states that decide the legal age to drink.

I happen to think if they're ready to have you fight and die, they should be willing to give you a beer before you go. Obama is entitled to his opinion - he does have a good point.

[rolleitreks]

36. I think attitudes towards drunk driving have changed a lot in this country.

I'm doubt you'd have hordes of drunken 18 year olds out drinking and driving. You could also implement a zero tolerance law for people below age 21 having any alcohol in their system at all when driving. The US is practically alone in the world with high drinking age. I think it sends the wrong message, and probably encourages binge drinking.

[Quantess]

56. And, the high drinking age breeds disrespect for the law.

No one under the age of 21 refuses a drink because it's illegal. A 20 year old may refuse to drink for many reasons, but being underage is not one of the reasons. Let's be realistic.

Anyone under 21 who wants alcohol will get alcohol, with a variable range of difficulty. Especially 18, 19, and 20 year olds, who know they are technically and legally "adults", yet are prohibited from one specific substance, solely based on their age. This unfairness creates scorn and disrespect for laws.

[bean fidhleir]

37. Anyone with a net worth less that $1M should be excluded from combat

Make sure the ones who do the profiting are the only ones who take the risks.

[Quantess]

57. That would end war for good!

:rofl:

[AngryAmish]

39. There is no proof that raising the drinking age lowers DUIs

And before you post a bunch of MADD stuff, please note the difference between correlation and causation.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

43. I see lots of people here who hate the 21st Amendment but won't admit it. -nt

[Zynx]

53. I favor much higher taxes on alcohol. I think people drink far too much.

[LanternWaste]

61. Six of one and all that.

There also seem to be people reading quite a bit of information about the opinions, ideals, mores and standards from a mere opinion or two from others...

Six of one and all that.

[robcon]

46. Huh? When does the president decide on the drinking age???

Isn't that a state, not federal function?

[ButterflyBlood]

48. I disagree with Obama here

And I'm amused by the people who honestly seem to believe the 21 drinking age actually stops people under 21 from drinking. Have you been to anywhere near a college campus lately?

I've got news for you: It doesn't.

[Donnachaidh]

50. There goes the college votes

:rofl:

[daleo]

51. If it is all about drunk driving

Then raise the drinking age to 30 or 40. I agree, it doesn't compute that you can join the army at 18, yet not join your older comrades for a beer.

[Quantess]

58. "... before he turned 21 was that he couldn't come home and drink a beer.."

But let's be real.

He DID drink some beer before turning 21. So it wasn't legal, but he most certainly had access to alcohol after becoming an adult, but before turning 21.

How is any person supposed to respect a law unfair as that? The answer is, 18-20 year olds don't respect the law.

[Az_lefty]

62. lower the drinking age on post, it's a controlled environment.

[pleah]

63. Lower the drinking age or raise the age to enlist in the military!

If your old enough to die in an illegal war, your old enough to drink!

[kath]

64. Lower the drinking age, and be like the Yurpeens, who have VERY very strict drunk-driving laws, with

huge penalties for drunk drivers of ALL ages. This is by far the most sensible approach. Like in so many other areas, those pinko commie Yurpeens are WAY ahead of us...


on edit, wish I could post that great Steve Bell cartoon here, from Chimpy's first trip to Europe, where I first saw the term "Yurpeens". Chimpyshit is getting off of Air Force One and says "Is this Yurp? Are these Yurpeens?" and then, in small letters, "can I have my light saber?"