College Students Stressed by War

[Hissyspit]

Source: Associated Press

College students stressed by war
By ALAN FRAM and TREVOR TOMPSON, Associated Press Writers
8 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - When his kid brother went off to war, a depressed Christian Dingethal went to bed.

The junior at Canisius College in Buffalo, N.Y., says he also for weeks stopped going to classes, doing laundry and contacting his parents. "I didn't know if I was saying goodbye to him for the rest of my life," said Dingethal, 21. "I didn't know how to deal with that. I turned cold."

Soon after Dingethal's brother, Joseph, arrived in Afghanistan early this year, the Army shipped him home after he hurt his eye in an accident. Christian Dingethal has gotten counseling and is returning to classes.

However, a national poll of college students conducted for The Associated Press and mtvU shows the stress he suffered — while extreme — is hardly unusual.

Half of the students surveyed said they personally know someone serving in Iraq or Afghanistan or who had been deployed there. Of that group, just over half said they had experienced stress because of the person's service, including nearly one in six who said it had caused them a lot of anxiety. Women are more likely than men to say the problem has been intense.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080319/ap_on_re_us/college_poll_stress_iraq_2

[shain from kane]

1. Maybe these people can understand being subject to the Draft. They vote, too.

[depakid]

2. Oh, they'd be in the streets with a draft

When it comes right down to it, the reason they're not is less "learned helplessness" than it is personal risk.

[pnwmom]

3. Going into the streets didn't end the Vietnam draft.

At least, not until after years of protests and more than 50,000 American deaths.

But I think the distraction of Watergate was what really caused Nixon to finally end the war.

[shain from kane]

4. You can't fight a war without troops. Look at these statistics from Vietnam ---

From the internets ---

"The divisive Vietnam War generated the highest percentage of wartime desertion since the Civil War. From 13,177 cases—or 1.6 percent of the armed forces—in FY 1965, the annual desertion statistics mounted to 2.9 percent in FY 1968, 4.2 percent in FY 1969, 5.2 percent in FY 1970, and 7.4 percent (79,027 incidents of desertion) in FY 1971. Like the draft resisters from this same war, many deserters sought sanctuary in Canada, Mexico, or Sweden. In 1974, the Defense Department reported that between 1 July 1966 and 31 December 1973, there had been 503,926 incidents of desertion in all services during the Vietnam War."


This is desertion. It does not include draft resisters. And consider how many personnel have to be employed to chase down the deserters.

[disndat]

7. Canada made an agreement with the U.S.

to stop draft dodgers' sanctuary in their country. Don't know when this became law in Canada.

[pnwmom]

12. That was just a few years ago. Not during Vietnam. n/t

[pnwmom]

11. Exactly. 50,000 men could not have died without a draft

because a war based on a volunteer army would have had to end years before.

[happyslug]

15. But most Americans Supported the war till 1968.

And at least 50% of the population supported the war as late as 1972 (Through Support for US Troops in Vietnam fell below 50% in early 1968).

Thus it was in 1968, as support for US troops in Vietnam fell below 50%, that the desertion rate went through the roof. The desertion rate during WWII was greater than the first two years of Vietnam. The Desertion rate (and draft Resistance rate) only went up as opposition to the war increased.

Remember most Americans OPPOSED THIS WAR from day one, unlike Vietnam where most Americans supported the War till 1968. Within six months of thew switch from Support to Opposition that Lyndon Johnson started to pull US troops out of Vietnam (This was accelerated by Nixon as part of Nixon's "Vietnamization Program").

Thus you position is NOT supported by the History of Vietnam. Furthermore the Americans who continued to Support the War in Vietnam did so in greater numbers then even supported the War in Iraq, and such relatively higher support for Vietnam (as opposed to Support for the war In Iraq) continued till the day South Vietnam fell.

This has been the history of Draftee Armies, they will support and fight a war only as long as the war has support of the majority of Citizens back home. Once that support stops, Draftee Armies also stop fighting. That is NOT true of Mercenary Armies (Which is what our "Volunteer Army really is). Such Armies, NOT being drawn from the people as a whole, will continue to fight as long as the leadership wants it to fight AND they are paid.

The US Army in Vietnam after 1968 had become so bad that we had to pull out of Vietnam or watch the army dissolve. The more Mercenary Units, like the Airborne troops, the Special Forces, and other "Elite" units continued to be reliable after 1968, but NOT the regular units. The Special forces and other "Elite" units had always been more mercenary then volunteer in the first place.

Now even some of these elite units saw a deterioration do to the fact many people, limited to HOW they can serve as opposed to if they can serve, would opt for such Elite units over serving in a regular units. This affected the Airborne more then the Special Forces, but it even affected the Special Forces to a Limited Degree. The Junior Officer Corp and the NCO Corp saw a similar deterioration even through technically these were "Volunteers" position, but again if given a choice would you prefer to serve as a Second Lieutenant or a Private? Many opt for the higher Rank, but still reflected the opposition to the war that was growing in the US especially after 1968.

A good Comparison is how long did it take the US to pull its troops out of Vietnam when it was a Draftee army? The answer was four years, we were out by the beginning of 1973, about five years after the point most Americans opposed the War (Also about the time the US opt for a Volunteer Army more to make sure the Army enlistees would never again be able to undermine the war effort as the troops had been since about 1968 than do to any effort to "professionalized" the Military).

As to Iraq? We are still in the War after Five years of Conflict. Most of the people who would have opposed the war from inside the Military never enlisted for they opposed the War. Similar people in 1968 were still drafted and took they opposition to the war with them into the Military, thus the much quicker deterioration of the US Army during Vietnam (And the Draft) then during Iraq (and no Draft). Thus a Draft (or more accurately a "Universal Military Service" Army) will lead to withdraw from an unpopular war quicker then if the Army is dependent on Volunteers. Draftees undermine whole units and the army itself if they oppose the war they are fighting, Volunteers enlist despite opposition to the war, either because they support the war OR they view the Army as a way to improve themselves (i.e. enlist for the Pay NOT the Cause). Either way such Volunteers will NOT do anything to oppose the war they are fighting unlike Draftees in a Universal Service Army.

[crimsonblue]

6. Good luck getting any college aged person to show up

in the case of a draft. Youn voters, more than any other group, oppose the War and Bushco in general. If it comes to a draft, I will go to jail in resistance rather than fight in a bullshit war. If we do start war with Iran, then we need to be scared about the possibility of a draft.. I mean, we are stretched too thin as is, and adding another war with another 100,000 troops? I don't think it would be feasible without forcing people like myself into service.

[pnwmom]

13. I share your concern. I am definitely worried about the possibility. n/t

[singilarpoint]

5. Just wait...

If people think that our Nation is bad now, just wait and see what happens when -GOD FORBID- McCain slithers into the White House. His intentions will reign down death, and destruction, across the globe that the world has not seen since the likes of the 1940s. You ain't seen nothin yet!!!!!!

[sofa king]

8. I was in college in the first Gulf War.

I still remember well how, over the more immediate problems of exams, girls, money, and how in the hell could I possibly drink a case of beer in one night, I worried a lot about my friends and family who were called up and sent out.

That was nothing compared to this, both in the level of violence and duration. I feel bad for all of us.

[bamacrat]

9. I just graduated and I want this war over now.

I dont want it to go on to the point where we have a draft, while I think that would bring on the second American Revolution, it would suck. I meet people now and then who have just returned from Iraq only one wants more war and he is a brainwashed dumbass. It's time to stop.

[sofa king]

10. Don't be too hard on your brainwashed friend.

The "P" in PTSD stands for "post." I think some people who get PTSD return to combat because it's where they don't have to deal with the horror of being out of combat.

I watched one friend go in and out, back and back again like a moth around a candle, until finally he was burned badly enough that he couldn't go back any more.

[bamacrat]

21. He said going to war with Iran made him horny.

He was in the Marine Force Recon, did some fucked up shit.

[sofa king]

24. Yeah.

Those guys probably do some really fucked up shit. Force Recon just got incorporated into SOCOM. Before that, nobody seems to know what they really did, but it was sure to be fucked up.

[tomg]

14. All I can say to all of those college students

who are "stressed by war" is to get your asses out into the streets. Stressed by war. No shit. My younger cousin ( way younger - really, like a nephew) who is on his second tour of duty is "stressed by war." When I was 20 in 1970 and had voluntarily given up my draft deferrment and was involved in a court case as a conscientious objector, I was "stressed by war." And the possibility of a couple of years in jail.

Now I teach college. Most of my students have never heard the term "extraordinary rendition." Very few still know what waterboarding means. "911" is taking on the aura of "Remember the Alamo."
They all hate the war and Bush, but not enough to do anything about it.

To so many of those younger people out there - and I saw a lot tonight at my local vigil - you know I don't mean you, so I am not slamming younger people. I understand Christian Dingethal. He has a vested interest, and so do we all. Too many people don't know it yet.

[Doctor_J]

16. The College Republicans aren't stressed

they know that none of them will ever have to fight it. Those groups should be hounded by the anti-war groups to enlist and put their asses where their fat mouths are.

[Captain Angry]

17. I'm around college students every day.

I haven't seen this.

I think they're far enough removed from the kinds of people whose families go to war that it's just something happening somewhere.

I went back to finish my degree when my job headed for India without me. So I'm way older than the kids there. My brother did two tours in Iraq. I haven't even met the child of a military person yet, let alone somebody whose brother or sister has done time over there.

They seem pretty insulated to me. And it sucks. I'm around business students who have no connection to humans yet, so they talk of outsourcing as an initial step in a company's decision process as opposed to a last resort.

Maybe other parts of the campus are different, but I doubt it. I'm not seeing fliers or banners for protests or vigils or anything. It's depressing.

[tomg]

19. I teach college and this has

been my experience also. I teach in a school that is pretty much like Canisius.In fact we are in the same athletic conference. The average student's lack of awareness of what is going on is disheartening to put it mildly. I am over in Liberal Arts, and it seems no different than what you describe over in Business.

They are wonderful kids and I truly enjoy working with them, but they are, as you say, insulated. Every semester, I try to teach one text where there is implicitly a connection between the text and the current conditions (given what I teach, it is normally Antigone). What I have found out is that, every year since 911, the students have had less and less information. As I posted upthread, my current students do not know anything about what is going on in Iraq or the United States, and, as a teacher, that sometimes puts me between a rock and a hard place.

[Captain Angry]

20. The depressing part is that most of the kids are fine with not knowing.

The kids are a lot of fun. Many of them are genuinely nice people. But I'll never figure out why they go to class when they spend it doing sodoku and texting on their phones.

[better tomorrow]

18. I remember being stressed by WAR.....and it was

VietNam. I lost many friends, neighbors, peers.....and we had the draft to worry about, too. It was a reality back then...

[roamer65]

22. Sounds just like ancient Rome.

Bread and circuses.

[fascisthunter]

23. The Whole World is Stressed about This War

stressed because it could engulf us all as a World War if these nutcase neo-cons get there way.